63 replies to this topic

[HeavyGun]

Why is it that PGI cannot do something to balance these teams better? I am just about fed up on losing match after match because peeps either do not want to work together, think that LRM assault boats are a great idea, or that nascar'ing is a great idea.

This tier thing sucks because you always go up way more when you win than when you go down when you lose. If you do badly in a match then you go down just as much as when you go up when you do good in a match. But right now its designed for everyone to go up to tier 1 eventually, which is one reason in my opinion why we have so many bad matches.

Sorry for ranting but it seems like every match I play the comp team players fill out the other side in quickplay and my side doesn't have any. It gets old real quick and have known many players to quit playing this game because of it. Come on PGI do something about this, do you want the player base to keep falling? Why would I want to keep playing this game so I can get my head handed to me every match. I don't mind losing or dying, but geez I am tired of getting rolled every match.

[Snowhawk]

There is an old thread About this "stats study - matchmaker is unfair".

In can confirm this to some Degree.
I took some screenshots and compaired the both Teams with their percentage of the jarl's list. Somemites there is a clear difference between the Teams, eg. one Team has a lot of 95 % Players while in the other Team are more 80 % Players and Maybe just one 90% Player.
So, one Team get's bowser and Proton and the other Team the Canon-fodder. It's not the fault of the good Players.... The most Players become Aware of it when they are hit with a hard loosing or Winning streak. Or ou are often in the loosing Team even you are doing fine (in the top 4 area of your Team).
Pgi's matchmaker has it's on life or is not well programmed…. you decide...

By the way, also funny: one team get's 4 unskilled corsairs's and the other team 2 Mad Cat II 1 Blood Asp and one Fafnir (the last two of course with ecm).

Edited by Snowhawk, 23 March 2019 - 11:01 PM.

[Sigmar Sich]

Because PSR as it is, is a silly idea. The upward bias, intended to grant the new players a feeling of progression, is washing away boundaries between the tiers, pitting against each other players of different skill or "win by any means / just to have fun" mentality. And the matchmaker is blind to this, considering them all equals.
Remove the upward bias, decrease the "XP" points per tier, and the system will fix itself in a month or two.

[ingramli]

Sigmar Sich, on 23 March 2019 - 11:06 PM, said:

Remove the upward bias, decrease the "XP" points per tier, and the system will fix itself in a month or two.

On PGI's view it is a stupid move, make people realise that they dont really git gud with the progression of time will drive them away = losing sales $$$$

[Sigmar Sich]

ingramli, on 23 March 2019 - 11:58 PM, said:

On PGI's view it is a stupid move, make people realise that they dont really git gud with the progression of time will drive them away = losing sales $$$$

Yes, i believe this to be true. But on the other hand: poor matchmaking -> players get frustrated and leave -> losing sales.
I guess it depends on how paying customers are distributed throughout the PSR tiers.
If most of them are in the lower tiers (4-5), then it is a valid, if a little dirty, tactics: to bait newcomers into paying by feeding them an illusion of progression.
If most of the paying customers are in the upper tiers, then it's not a good tactics, since the upper tiers are most toxic because of the PSR/matchmaking.

Just a guess.

[ShiverMeRivets]

Geez, this again?

The matchmaker is not biased. Is it sub optimal? Yes, because this is a problem with a very large number of possible input parameters that are not well quatified. Above everything is the constraint that the waiting time in the queue must not be long - this forces a compromise on a “less then ideal” team compositions because you do not want to wait for a specific profile of a player with the right mech size to join the queue and balance the teams.

Adding more and more poorly defined parameters will not help. Like suggested above, taking the build into account - you cannot easily asses the values of builds. How valuable is an assult lurm boat vs. an assult sniper vs. kitchen sink build? Lets say that you find a way - tomorrow the meta will change and sniper assults with class 1 JJs become THE thing and you have to change the matchmaker to reflect that.

Instead of whining, try to embrace the randomness. Sure MM can be improved, just don’t expect a dramatic improvement.

[El Bandito]

Everyone has equal chance of getting crap teams. Get used to it. Population simply cannot support better MM.

[ObeyTheLion]

El Bandito, on 24 March 2019 - 12:50 AM, said:

Everyone has equal chance of getting crap teams. Get used to it. Population simply cannot support better MM.

Does this justificate my 16x lose streak from yesterday?

[The6thMessenger]

ObeyTheLion, on 24 March 2019 - 12:57 AM, said:

Does this justificate my 16x lose streak from yesterday?

Did you have a good game? or at least you did well (well as in least worse)? My take away from this is that it's not about win or lose, but if did you perform well. There are times you'd do 1000 damage and do 5 kills, but still lose, but hey did you at least have fun dealing those damage and getting those kills? MM is a joke, there's no point in being rather analytical about it.

That being said, being part of statistics, you have an influence in your matches that would compound overtime with multiple matches and show a trend overtime.

[ObeyTheLion]

The6thMessenger, on 24 March 2019 - 01:23 AM, said:

Did you have a good game? or at least you did well (well as in least worse)? My take away from this is that it's not about win or lose, but if did you perform well. There are times you'd do 1000 damage and do 5 kills, but still lose, but hey did you at least have fun dealing those damage and getting those kills? MM is a joke, there's no point in being rather analytical about it.

That being said, being part of statistics, you have an influence in your matches that would compound overtime with multiple matches and show a trend overtime.

Was doing around 700-800 dmg most games. Sub 500 in a few. Got a lot of kills also. Was playing my summoner all day yesterday. Say, around 12 of those 16 matches was in my Summoner. I always have fun in that mech,but it was getting pretty upsetting after the 4th-5th high dmg loss. Even if i didn't get a kill, i did strip a lot of armor from the enemy. All my teammates had to do is to take those heavily damaged/open components, but they didn't. And that's what i can't understand. Why miss an opportunity to kill/cripple a heavily damaged target?
That aside, yesterday morning was going pretty good. Had matches with 10+ assists, didn't care about kills much since i was doing Phase2 of the event. Only after midday was it getting pretty bad, and stomps started to roll in left and right

Edited by ObeyTheLion, 24 March 2019 - 05:09 AM.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

El Bandito, on 24 March 2019 - 12:50 AM, said:

Everyone has equal chance of getting crap teams. Get used to it. Population simply cannot support better MM.

I don't want to get used to it, tho.
I don't want a team of me (average) and 11 inepts getting stomped, that's not a "gg".

I don't want a team of me (average) and 11 comp players stomping 12:0, that's not a "gg" either.

I only want balanced matches.

[Lily from animove]

Snowhawk, on 23 March 2019 - 10:49 PM, said:

There is an old thread About this "stats study - matchmaker is unfair".

In can confirm this to some Degree.
I took some screenshots and compaired the both Teams with their percentage of the jarl's list. Somemites there is a clear difference between the Teams, eg. one Team has a lot of 95 % Players while in the other Team are more 80 % Players and Maybe just one 90% Player.
So, one Team get's bowser and Proton and the other Team the Canon-fodder. It's not the fault of the good Players.... The most Players become Aware of it when they are hit with a hard loosing or Winning streak. Or ou are often in the loosing Team even you are doing fine (in the top 4 area of your Team).
Pgi's matchmaker has it's on life or is not well programmed…. you decide...

By the way, also funny: one team get's 4 unskilled corsairs's and the other team 2 Mad Cat II 1 Blood Asp and one Fafnir (the last two of course with ecm).

becaue thre is no difference between Proton and the 700 damage lurmer, they eventually end up top at the filled T1, so for the MM they do not differ and are a perfectly balanced matchup.

[ShiverMeRivets]

ObeyTheLion, on 24 March 2019 - 05:08 AM, said:

Was doing around 700-800 dmg most games. Sub 500 in a few. Got a lot of kills also. Was playing my summoner all day yesterday. Say, around 12 of those 16 matches was in my Summoner. ...

That is your problem. Queueing again and again with the same mech has a better chance to place you with a similar team to what you had before. 16 losses is quite an impressive streak, but if the population is low, and players keep playing the same mechs (probably leveling up their new assults), the MM is likely to put tou with the same people again and again. This works for winning streaks too btw.

To lower the chance of a long streak and get a more shuffled team change you mech, preferably by a good amout of tons. Try something +-10 tons atleast.

[ObeyTheLion]

ShiverMeRivets, on 24 March 2019 - 07:24 AM, said:

That is your problem. Queueing again and again with the same mech has a better chance to place you with a similar team to what you had before. 16 losses is quite an impressive streak, but if the population is low, and players keep playing the same mechs (probably leveling up their new assults), the MM is likely to put tou with the same people again and again. This works for winning streaks too btw.

To lower the chance of a long streak and get a more shuffled team change you mech, preferably by a good amout of tons. Try something +-10 tons atleast.

Aw shucks

[Aiden Skye]

Obviously someone is getting good teams if you keep getting stomped. At the end of the day, someone has to win, and someone has to lose. Some times you just end up with a bad luck of the draw. That's pug lottery. I'm sure you're not perfect either and have had matches where you can't get it together and people crap all over you.

Comp players can be just as trash or even worse, don't look to them like they are a god send. Many are headstrong elitists often for no good reason and will be the most vocal and rude if they don't get their way. That is just the nature of online gaming, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

Edited by W A R K H A N, 24 March 2019 - 08:30 AM.

[Alan Hicks]

It's been the standard of the game, bad teams. But every now and then, you get a good team to work with and win. (like one in 5 times or less)

Years went by, we've seen and frown at PGI's nerfs, but the match-maker continues to be a complete joke.

Balanced teams ? Nonsense, they rarely happen, no matter what you do you are already set to lose or win each time.

Not only PGI is to blame here but a big part of the current gaming community who continues to behave in the usual way plenty of matches (nascar, bad builds, selfish or reckless playing, passiveness or cowardliness)

I'm finally ok with losing streaks, I've come to accept it as the nature of the PGI version of a PvP mechwarrior simulator. It's no surprise the MWO population will never grow as it could.

[bilagaana]

A Modest Proposal
(After Dr. Jonathan Swift. i.e: Let's eat the young.)

As it is generally agreed that the PSR is irretrievably broken and as there is no consensus (I know everybody has an opinion) as to what performance criteria are consistently reliable:

Leave the MM as it is. Eliminate the PSR. Let people pick their own tier. Let them change it as often as they like.

Some subset of new or otherwise naive players will initially opt to try a higher tier consistent with their self-image, will rapidly tire of getting stomped and will, aside from the persistently delusional, self-select progressively lower tiers until they are comfortable.

Likewise, more skilled or more sociopathic players may find the notion of lording it over the noobs appealing in the short-term and opt to play in a lower tier. They will rapidly tire of the abysmal quality of matches and reset to a more appropriate higher tier.

Given the diminishing player base, the MM will still need to reach across tiers to constitute teams. However, under the system described above, there will ideally be fewer complaints about the abundance of incompetent pilots in the sanctum santorum that is Tier 1.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

bilagaana, on 24 March 2019 - 09:28 AM, said:

A Modest Proposal
(After Dr. Jonathan Swift. i.e: Let's eat the young.)

As it is generally agreed that the PSR is irretrievably broken and as there is no consensus (I know everybody has an opinion) as to what performance criteria are consistently reliable:

Leave the MM as it is. Eliminate the PSR. Let people pick their own tier. Let them change it as often as they like.

Some subset of new or otherwise naive players will initially opt to try a higher tier consistent with their self-image, will rapidly tire of getting stomped and will, aside from the persistently delusional, self-select progressively lower tiers until they are comfortable.

Likewise, more skilled or more sociopathic players may find the notion of lording it over the noobs appealing in the short-term and opt to play in a lower tier. They will rapidly tire of the abysmal quality of matches and reset to a more appropriate higher tier.

Given the diminishing player base, the MM will still need to reach across tiers to constitute teams. However, under the system described above, there will ideally be fewer complaints about the abundance of incompetent pilots in the sanctum santorum that is Tier 1.

Compelling idea but i do not like the possibility of above average players farming people who are and want to be in tier 4.
This scream like c-bills farming abuse.
Some people just don't have fun if they don't win or better said, winning is literally everything for them.
You get this in every game, in league for example you have diamond players smurf stomping silver players just to feel good about themself.
Some people need success in video games to compensate for something (which i do not condemn per se, everyone has their own goals and reasoning).
It's the job of a matchmaker to sort this out, that's what it's meant to do.
Like others already said, mwo's matchmaker can't work if it is getting feed with nonsensual data.

What i think would help is a reset, everyone in tier 1 and 2 back to tier 3 (i bet we wouldn't notice a difference actually) and psr ajustment so we can't climb as easily as we can now).

[Grus]

Too easy, PSR is garbage. We have "teir 1" players with sub k/d ratios... THATS why teams are shite.

[KursedVixen]

I can relate to this, most of my games are terrible loses very rarely do i get a game were i do well and lose or even win, or at least it feels like it.... but there are many other problems that effect this aside from the bad matchmaker ,but i think that's one of the big ones.

Edited by KursedVixen, 24 March 2019 - 10:15 AM.