111 replies to this topic

[Chados]

Keep the classic maps and bring back classic Terra Therma too, for the original pug-zapper. They’re different and require different styles of play. Y’all can’t circle-jerk your way out of a brawl on those postage-stamp sized classic maps. The fight is quick, nasty, and intense. Old school. There are plenty of yuge maps in rotation.

What’s needed is, in my view, to (1) allow selection and deselection of game modes again, and (2) to eliminate the map/mode lottery at the beginning of each match. I used to keep all modes and all servers selected and got a lot more matches than those who opted out of assault and conquest matches. It was all random, you never knew what was coming, and it kept you guessing-it kept the game fresh. Now you see the three maps pop up and you know exactly which one is getting picked. The coldest, smallest one, in skirmish mode. Every time. I remember a day where I never got out of the HPS station. I had another day where I ended up doing twelve straight drops in Canyon Network.

[Nesutizale]

Thorqemada, on 30 March 2019 - 03:51 PM, said:

My experience is that the Classic Maps get not the most votes that often.

Get rid of M+M Voting at all pls!

My experiance so far is pretty mixed. I see classic pretty much as often as other maps...also HPG gets picked to much. Hate that map.

[Lykaon]

Nightlurk, on 30 March 2019 - 02:21 AM, said:

Please remove the "classic" maps from random battles rotation, most people vote for them having no clue what they are and then everything turns into a complete clusterfk.

You might as well hand me a dice and make me roll for win/loss and just save me the wasted time.

Why are those maps back in the game anyway? You took them out because they were horrible, and now you added them back in for what!? At least make them optional and not force me to play through them.

And yes this is a rant!

Many of the other maps in rotation are pretty much the same.

Both teams go to the same spot
Both teams rotate
one team wins

50/50 it was team you were on because it wasn't a brilliant strategy of execution of a tactical plan that won that match. It was nearly decided in it's entirety once the match maker was done.

Edited by Lykaon, 31 March 2019 - 05:18 AM.

[LordNothing]

bring back more classic maps, i want classic terra therma. in before some poorly heat disciplined scrub trashtier sob whines no.

and when you are done returning classic maps, make new maps. anything but snow.

Edited by LordNothing, 31 March 2019 - 05:24 AM.

[Nesutizale]

More maps is something the community has been asking for a long time. I still vote for a map editior to be release and PGI starting to capitalise on the communitys creativity by takeing the maps that work and make them official.

[RickySpanish]

As much as I am not a fan of the old maps, removing choice from a game is never a good thing imo. Too many games have been streamlined into oblivion. Games need "wildcard" type features to keep things interesting, this is also why I feel removing Escort and not fixing it was a mistake - again not a huge fan of that mode, but variety is surprisingly important.

Nesutizale, on 31 March 2019 - 07:19 AM, said:

More maps is something the community has been asking for a long time. I still vote for a map editior to be release and PGI starting to capitalise on the communitys creativity by takeing the maps that work and make them official.

So much this, the power of modding is what made Id Software and later Valve the types of monolithic gaming entities they are now. It's a shame so many publishers seem to misunderstand this.

Edited by RickySpanish, 31 March 2019 - 08:58 AM.

[General Solo]

Bring back Classic terra terma O yeah
This
+123

[Gilgamecc]

patata tornada works

[Variant1]

HECK NO. Keep classic maps, i missed them so much!

All they need to do for them is make those gosh darn trees knockdownable

[Anjian]

Instead of cutting out the classic maps, why don't we cut down HPG, Canyon and other NASCAR maps?

[WrathOfDeadguy]

Nightlurk, on 30 March 2019 - 02:21 AM, said:

Please remove the "classic" maps from random battles rotation, most people vote for them having no clue what they are and then everything turns into a complete clusterfk.

First... Many if not most of the people who vote for these maps know exactly what they are... and that's why we vote for them. Many players were disappointed by the loss of gameplay variety which the removal of these maps- these specific maps- represented. We enjoy the fast, brawly games which the older, smaller maps force. Shortcutting the sniping phase is a feature. It was a disappointment when every single map began with long range trades, moving into medium range trades, and only brawl after the outcome had usually been decided by early peek losses. Going straight into the brawl makes short-ranged builds more relevant again, and introduces true randomness to the matchmaker. Now you really don't know what kind of build will be best for the match you end up in. Previously, that was a problem only brawl builds had. Now everybody has that same problem. It's glorious.

Nightlurk, on 30 March 2019 - 02:21 AM, said:

You might as well hand me a dice and make me roll for win/loss and just save me the wasted time.

Welcome to not knowing in advance if your build will be perfect for the map/mode. Congrats. We brawl-lovers have been in that position ever since these maps were removed. Do you like how it feels? Good. Savor it. That's called disappointment. It's the natural counterpoint to getting exactly what you want all the time!

Nightlurk, on 30 March 2019 - 02:21 AM, said:

Why are those maps back in the game anyway?

Because players asked for them to be returned. Because many players never wanted them removed. We asked for new maps, not the outright replacement of the old ones. The only thing wrong with the old maps was that the spawns were messed up- size wasn't an issue. Take any of the new, large maps... and subtract the time spent faffing around positioning before first enemy contact. Is there any difference worth mentioning between one and the other, vis a vis time spent actually fighting? Very bloody little. The only difference is the range at which the first shots are exchanged. On the New maps, that tends to be ERPPC/ERLL/AC2 range. On the "Classic" maps, it tends to be LL/ERML/AC5/AC10 range.

Oh noes! You have to fight more of the enemy team sooner! You might have to actually put your hands on the controls, instead of taking another sip of coffee!

Nightlurk, on 30 March 2019 - 02:21 AM, said:

You took them out because they were horrible,

Misconstruction of motivation. The old maps were removed because they were re-made as new, larger maps. That is not a qualitative judgment on the old maps... and for the umpteenth time, not everyone wanted the old maps removed when the new maps were added.

Nightlurk, on 30 March 2019 - 02:21 AM, said:

and now you added them back in for what!?

For all of the players who are not you, who never wanted them removed in the first place, and who like having a true variety in gameplay rather than just a bunch of samey-samey sniper maps that only devolve into short-range fights after the outcome of the battle has already been decided.

Nightlurk, on 30 March 2019 - 02:21 AM, said:

At least make them optional and not force me to play through them.

Do I get the option of excluding Polar, New!Frozen, New!Forest, and New!Therma?

No?

Then deal with it.

Nightlurk, on 30 March 2019 - 02:21 AM, said:

And yes this is a rant!

Oh Honey Bear, that's barely even a complaint, let alone a rant. Rants have paragraphs.

[Vellron2005]

Phoolan Devi, on 30 March 2019 - 02:26 AM, said:

1st off, NO!

2nd) they were taken out of rotation because they were reworked

3rd) they're back because people were asking for them to come back

4th) I don't know why people would have a problem with those maps.

1) Hell YES, please remove them

2) The "classic maps" were intended for 4 vs 4 combat, not 12 vs 12 - they hail from CLOSED BETA.. the game is much different now..

3) The people that asked for them back, are also the people who cried when they were removed, and the people who don't like any realism in their battlefields, but instead want instant SRM face-hugging action.. As soon as regular people try these maps out, they will be chosen very rarely, mostly for the purposes of trolling, kinda like Solaris city..

4) All of the stated above, plus keep in mind that these maps are simply too small for 12 vs 12, and there is no tactics or anything other than instant face-smashing in this map. Long range is useless, and most games on these maps are decided by which team has more SRMs and MG Piranhas.. its boring, stupid, and simply bad gameplay.

These maps don't belong in game, except for maaaaaaybe in scouting..

[Davegt27]

I blame PGI they need to buff all Mechs so I can nascar at least one lap through the caves on Forest

heck everyone is dead about time you hit turn 3

what kind of racing is this

[BenAran]

Nightlurk, on 30 March 2019 - 02:37 AM, said:

2) Yeah and the reworked version are fine. So those "classics" can stay where they belong, in the archive files.

3) What "people"? I don't recall there being a community referendum... More like they're back because it's cheaper for the devs to just unzip some old files than actually put in the work to make new maps. I wonder if all that pre-order money is being used to fund any other work besides creating more mechs for more pre-orders...

4) These maps are clusterfk-ish. Especially the frozen city one. If you play this in organized clan v clan battles then it's fine, because you're supposed to have proper command and proper tactics, but for random battles where most people are already confused and have no idea what they're doing, and have little to no organization, leadership or tactics, then it's a coin toss. Like I said, might as well give me a dice roll when I click the battle button and save me the waste of time.

The irony of things is that I was finally praising the game for being in a "stable" enjoyable state a few weeks ago. I was saying after all those years, they finally got their **** together and have a balanced game, and then they dropped those maps in... /facepalm

Name me a single map that is NOT clusterfuckish in QP.
Many people have not played the old maps before, so confusion is normal.

[ShiverMeRivets]

We needed more maps in the rotation.

The classic maps are still better than some of the other maps we have (Alpine, Terra therma).

Classic Forrest is meh, but still passable. Please put a big rock at both ends of the tunnel - I hate it when my team goes in there.

[McHoshi]

8 vs 8 on those classic Maps - that would be great ... and by the Way - the old thermal vision - damn i miss those days.

[Ch_R0me]

VonBruinwald, on 30 March 2019 - 04:10 AM, said:

People are voting for them because they're new and the reason they are turning into chaos is because people are still learning them.

They're also much harder to Nascar on while still giving the opportunity to flank, which is a plus.

Personally I think they missed an opportunity. Should have run an event, Classic Maps only and discounts on the original 'mech packs (and mech bays).

Well, to be precise, some people who began to play MwO after those maps were "replaced" by actual ones, are indeed learning them, but old "dinosaurs" like me, who played them before just need to "readjust" & recall those.

It's good that they're back, so PGI:

Don't remove those. Under any circumstance.

[Verilligo]

Vellron2005, on 01 April 2019 - 12:58 AM, said:

3) The people that asked for them back, are also the people who cried when they were removed, and the people who don't like any realism in their battlefields, but instead want instant SRM face-hugging action.. As soon as regular people try these maps out, they will be chosen very rarely, mostly for the purposes of trolling, kinda like Solaris city..

4) All of the stated above, plus keep in mind that these maps are simply too small for 12 vs 12, and there is no tactics or anything other than instant face-smashing in this map. Long range is useless, and most games on these maps are decided by which team has more SRMs and MG Piranhas.. its boring, stupid, and simply bad gameplay.

These maps don't belong in game, except for maaaaaaybe in scouting..

3) There is no realism in Battletech, let alone in MWO or the battlefields of either. This isn't a war sim, it's just a shooter. I also reject your claim that "regular" people would not enjoy the classic maps, or Solaris City for that matter. I happen to enjoy both and feel I am a fair representation of a "regular" person. Unless of course your definition of "regular" and "realism" is "there must be LRMs." In which case... yeah, I can see that frustrating you. Though naturally, LRMs are still perfectly usable on Solaris and the classic maps, you just have to get better angles and move closer to the fight.

4) I do not think the data will back up your claim here. Everyone keeps saying how small the maps are, but they seem to be perfectly-sized to me so long as your team is willing to hold down good angles and positions. The fight doesn't depend solely on having the most or the best brawlers, I wouldn't even say the maps totally shut down long range builds. The only build that DOES get utterly hosed by the small maps is ERLL sniping because there's simply no way to establish a large enough no man's land that the low DPS ERLL builds can exploit. Good thing that's not the build you use, yeah? Every other kind of build, provided it can get the position it needs, can at least lay down solid DPS.

[Anjian]

McHoshi, on 01 April 2019 - 05:39 AM, said:

8 vs 8 on those classic Maps - that would be great ... and by the Way - the old thermal vision - damn i miss those days.

They need to bring back Predator vision. Its just so cool.

Edited by Anjian, 01 April 2019 - 06:02 AM.

[Moldur]

Wait they added old frozen city back in? You know, statistically the most popular map prior to being taken out of the game because it "sucked"? Wow I might play this game again.