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Assault Class


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#161 PhoenixFire55

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 03:39 AM

View PostAlienized, on 16 April 2019 - 03:35 AM, said:

if he dies, he dies Posted Image Posted Image

But thats the thing! ... It doesn't 'die'. Dieing is when you are getting hammered, losing armor, components and eventually succumbing. Those mechs ... They don't 'die', they just suddenlt implode for no reason whatsoever. Posted Image

#162 Alienized

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 04:05 AM

View PostPhoenixFire55, on 16 April 2019 - 03:39 AM, said:

But thats the thing! ... It doesn't 'die'. Dieing is when you are getting hammered, losing armor, components and eventually succumbing. Those mechs ... They don't 'die', they just suddenlt implode for no reason whatsoever. Posted Image


Posted Image Posted Image stealth flea Posted Image

#163 LowSubmarino

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 06:05 AM

View PostGuardDogg, on 13 April 2019 - 07:14 PM, said:

Myself pilot assault mechs a lot. For one, they appear to be the weakest armor than lights (to what I witness), and two they are slow. Other class mechs can carry just as much (or more) as assault mechs. Their is a lot of disadvantages of piloting an assault. And it is no fun. All three classes of pilots will always point the blame on Assault pilots even when winning a round "waste of armor".

For the last week and some few days extra, been pilot medium and heavy, sometimes a light. To get these achievement awards. That is all I am missing, and that "get 12 kills in one round.", and then doing the weekend challenges. But I have found the greatest freedom of other classes. Do what ever I can, as long I am with team (of course). Escort Assaults (all the time) for security, and other. Never get blamed for anything when using light, medium, heavy.

In the conclusion of all this, I been hearing, reading messages from others to those who are piloting assault to hurry up. Wondering, are they new to this? Assaults can only go so fast, and sometimes with a reasonable engine (280 standard), can be a slow mech. And the rest of team is outrunning you, stretching the line to the point enemy lights will be behind you in about two minutes and you are alone and then losing round. Team member is yelling (can hear the frustration) at the assault pilot(s) to hurry up, get over here. When in fact, one; under attack from enemy lights, or mediums. Cut off from team movements, and of course slow. Assault mechs would love to be ahead, and even with other mech classes. People need to remember, Assault mechs are slow. Have respect, understand. Want to get into a battle? Take your light, medium, heavy class mech with assault (same speed). You will get wonders. I have.


Most ppl arent nearly skilled or experienced enough to pilot assault mechs.

In assault mechs you basically have to know where the fight will be. You need to be intimately familiar with maps and where there will be fighting.

8 out 10 assault mechs, even or especially in Tier 1, dont know that and fall behind the formation in basically every single match and then start complaining about nascar. If you check out really good and strong assault pilots....they never complain about nascar because the simply see that rotation and movement is a very relevant and prevalent feature in mwo. And still they do a ton of dmg, multiple kills and perform very well.

But you rarely see them just falling behind or even standing stil in the initial phase up until midgame because they run right to the relevant parts of the map and rarely fall behind to be cored out by multiple lights or fast skirmishers from the back. Which happens to most assault mechs I see. They have no idea how to really use those mechs. They stand still, poke ineffectively, load up their asaults with lrms, which makes them easy, juicy targets for those ppl that start running to team reds end of nascar train right from the start of the match.

In that very moment you drop, ppl sprint to where they know all those slow assault pilots that dont yet undersatnd rotation and mwos playstyles will be located and just masscare them.

Only play assault mechs when you know exactly where the fight will be on each map and in each game mode. You gotta know where that will be, you better wont join the match late in slow mechs (cause thats suicide) and you better run right to where your armor and firepower can actually be very devastating. 8 out of 10 assault pilots never even reach those positions cause they think they got time to just peek here, peek there, run a bit to the left here, to the right over there, turn around and poke at a light in the far distance behind them a bit....

No.

No no no.

If you read this and realize that even a small part of what I described fits your assault playstyle, then youre not a real asasult pilot and I wont even have to ask. I know that your basically always melt without really dishing out good dmg and really contributing to the teams performance.

Assault mechs are by far the easiest targets that you can more tahn easily farm in lighst and fast skirmishers they make by far the most devastating posiitonal mistakes in every single match no matter thier tier. They underestimate speed and not falling behind and preserving your armor and firepower till you actually reach the constantly moving frontline is the only way to get okayish to good or very good stats and dmg and kills and perform very poorly most of the time.

Doing good in much faster and ligher armored mechs is way, waaay easier. Most ppl arent anywhere good enough to play assault mechs. Funny and interesting though, that assault mechs are so popular. Even though most ppl I see have no idea how to play assaults. I myself stay way from assaults because you have to constantly run and struggle to keep up. Constnatly and right from start and you better do not take any detours which basically all assault pilots constantly do in order to reach the real frontline and not getting slaughtered on your way there.

If you wanne complain about nascar then you should stay away from assaults.

If you keep getting shot in your backside in assaults then you made a grave positioning error and it is your own mistake. You should have moved to a very different location prolly ages ago. If you put lrms into your assault mech then youre actually helping team red when theres some real competition. Im not talking about the fun cannofodder standard quickly masscare where you can bring anything a lot of times cause its so chaotic.

But every 5th or 10th game, you have a pretty good team and team red is very strong and they dont make stupid mistakes and they will masscare you in your lrm boat and you wasted a valuable slot of an assault mech that could have actually won the game. A very good assault pilot is scary. They are dangerous.

But that is rare. Most assault pilots underestimate just how dangerous it is in mwos QP matches to be slow.

In part a lot of lets players are responsible for that. Ppl see a lot of lets plays of at least okay to really good players that boat firepoower but only equip low engines. They copy such builds but get melted instantly in those builds because they are just too slow and on top of that they dont even realize that they should have run to the truely relevant areas right from start. Most of the time they fall behind and die hardy dishing out 1 - 3 alphas.

Any other class is way easier to pilot unless its a very slow heavy which I see often times too.

If you just started then I would stay far, very far away from anything below 80 kph because the slower the mech the greater the risk. Even the smallest mistakes will be deadly. In faster mechs you can disengage and relocate which is impossible for slow mechs. Most assault pilots I see die to that. They make positional mistakes every match.

Here a small piece of advice which will probably make you at least 5 to 10 times more effective in terms of dmg, assists, kills and over all contribution when piloting assaults:

In every match, there will be dedicated lights and fast mediums that are en route to your end of the nascar train, where you in your assault mech are wandering about, right from the very first second of the match. They are already on their way cause they know you make those mistakes in every match.

Keep that in mind when fieling an assault mech. They are already hunting you and want to farm you for easy dmg and kills.

I know.

Cause I do that all the time and farm the slow assaults. Prolly the easiest way to farm dmg and kills and you dont even have to be that good. Thats how easy it is to exploit the assault mech trap.

What you should do in assaults is: RUN RUN RUN right away and you better know where to go on each map.

Keep that in mind and youll prolly do three times as much dmg and get multiple kills just by remembering that.

Edited by LowSubmarino, 16 April 2019 - 06:07 AM.


#164 Xiphias

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 06:11 AM

View Postthievingmagpi, on 15 April 2019 - 03:02 PM, said:

Ideally, it *shouldn't* be an issue running a slow(er) assault. You shouldn't *have to* be a top tier player and go solo against 5-6 mechs rushing you because your team is spread out halfway across the map.

But that's how this game works. Your team is not your team.

Even playing with a comp team you don't take a really slow (39 kph) assault. Why? Because even if your team stays with you to protect you you've now limited the team to moving at your speed. The enemy will be able to take better positions and move more effectively than your team. There is a speed minimum, even in an ideal case

Quote

I'd even speak against the advice that "positioning matters" because it doesn't, not in SQ. It should but it doesn't. If you're in the best spot on the map but your team is 300m away from you, it doesn't matter.

Positioning matters a lot, even in solo queue. You're confusing "positions" with "positioning".

"Positions" are locations on the map that are stronger than others, in solo queue you can't always use these due to your team.

"Positioning" is where your mech is relative to the terrain, to your team, and to the enemy team. You can still have good positioning when moving through bad positions. Positioning is not getting isolated and being able to engage enemies from the side or in small numbers. It's absolutely essential in every game. Good positioning is dynamic and changes every game based on how your team and the enemy team moves. What is good positioning in one match is bad positioning in another, that's why people that run to the "best position", refuse to move, and die alone don't have good positioning. They aren't adapting to the way the game is going.

Good positioning is adaptive and active.

View PostGuardDogg, on 15 April 2019 - 07:01 PM, said:

Okay. Lets go here.
Where are the Assaults suppose to be in Battle?

There's no one spot for assaults to be, as above, positioning is active and requires constant adaptation.

General rules for assaults (any mech really) is that you should be in a position that allows you and your team to inflict more damage on the enemy than they can on you. If your team is engaged you should try to also be engaged. If your team is not engaged it's usually not a good idea to be engaged (occasionally it can be). You shouldn't be isolated. You should be in positions where you can help your team obtain local numerical superiority and avoid situations where you end up outnumbered. You should be in locations where you can react or shape enemy movements. All easier said than done.

To help give more specifics, it depends a lot on the type of assault that you are playing, both the speed and the range.

For something that is a brawler like an Atlas you want to be up as close to the front as possible to lead pushes and/or be leading a flank. This will depend on the team, but obviously you want to be able to get as close as possible to the enemy. If your team is willing to push with you the you serve as a big tank and take damage. If your team doesn't then you have to be a bit more creative, but an effective flank can easily cripple mechs from behind.

With a more mid-to-long range build you want to usually be in locations where you have longer sight-lines and you can stay with your team. A lot of times this ends up being a bit like an elliptical orbit, you cut in tight to get ahead of your team and then you move out wider to get good sight lines (while constantly moving) you cut in as needed based on where your team is going to go.

It's hard to explain in text, but I feel like roughly if you are in the middle of the team you should probably be moving towards the front. If you are in the front of the team slow down a bit and be more careful. If you are behind the team, get good sight-lines and move towards where the team is going to be. In none of these cases should you be charging head first into an enemy firing line. You should be trying to expose to a single mech as much as possible and as an assault you should pretty much always be able to win a trade 1v1. None of this excludes using cover as needed.

To really see good positioning watch a streamer like prtN_spz. He has plenty of videos that demonstrate good positioning in assaults. There are a few here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/402024969 at 2:02, 2:28 (Notice how the King Crab in the same spawn dies at the start due to bad positioning), and 2:36. In each of this situations watch how he's able to stay ahead of the rotation and avoid being jumped due to good positioning and movement.

If you watch players like this and learn to position/react the way that they do you'll find yourself getting left behind a lot less.

#165 Wil McCullough

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 06:41 AM

View PostXiphias, on 16 April 2019 - 06:11 AM, said:

snip


asking people to watch proton and learn from him is kinda like asking beginner basketballers to watch kobe haha. the only thing they're gonna learn is "just shoot 4head" and get salted on more in-game.

i would say b33f is way better watching than proton for newer players cos he's super good at explaining why he does things and how to do it.

#166 Alienized

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 08:08 AM

thats all quite fine but in the end, everyone has to find his way. you can get explanations all day if you cant put it out there yourself.

main things always should be considered:

dont leave mechs behind.
if one mech gets shot, help it out.
a dead mech wont support you when you need it.
sharing armor is the single most important thing.
holding important spots on the map is crucial.


TEAMPLAY YOU FOOLS! no mech can do much alone.
if one player gets left alone and fights several mechs off, give that guy some props for holding up the enemy while you run away. he might not have much dmg or kills but still be the reason you can win.

#167 Xiphias

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 10:07 AM

View PostWil McCullough, on 16 April 2019 - 06:41 AM, said:

asking people to watch proton and learn from him is kinda like asking beginner basketballers to watch kobe haha. the only thing they're gonna learn is "just shoot 4head" and get salted on more in-game.

i would say b33f is way better watching than proton for newer players cos he's super good at explaining why he does things and how to do it.

That's fair. I don't really follow streamers and I've played enough that it's pretty easy for me to see when a player is making good/bad positioning decisions. I realize that's probably not the case if you don't already have good positioning. Regardless, I think just trying to pay attention to what Proton does could still help some, but I agree that b33f is probably a better place to start.

The Mining Collective match in the stream I linked does do a great job of illustrating the difference that movement and positioning make right from the start. The King Crab goes more left/low from spawn and Proton stays high then drops right and follows the lane to the center. KC dies almost immediately when the enemy team pushes up, while Proton survives the whole match. They both started in the same spot and were similar speed, but a relatively minor difference in course made a huge difference.

#168 xe N on

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 11:33 AM

View PostGuardDogg, on 14 April 2019 - 10:36 PM, said:


What ever. I am not the best when I do try. I couldn't care about numbers. So, piloting a assault at 39 kph, I am now considered a potato pilot. Okay will take it. But when telling a whole assault lance to hurry up. ....No, not going to happen when doing the best.. We all know MWO is flawed in many areas. So, their is no need to be the best. Just do your best. Numbers, ranks mean nothing.


In the same way there are lights, medium and heavy mechs that perform horrible, there are assault mechs that simply suck. 100 ton mechs suck mostly (in my opinion). Choose an assault mech that don't suck. Assaults going 39 kph are not viable in QP. Brawling assaults are not viable in QP. LRM-only assaults are potentially just a waste of tonnage (depends on map and enemy team).

Try builds like this one:

https://mwo.smurfy-n...eef84f2ff18e9d7

And remember:

1. Assault mechs are mostly primary targets.
So don't be one. You are meant to be on a team not a solo warrior. Stay with the team. Stay in cover. Ideally you only engage if you are sure that you win the fight.

2. Assault mech are not meant to tank nor can tank coordinated fire
Don't even try to walk in open space. You need to decide when to engage and what to engage. Don't engage if you going to draw focus fire (see point 1)

3. Assault mech are there to do the most damage in the game
You need to focus on not being killed, because your potential damage is higher than any other class. If you die early, you waste potential damage

4. Choose your targets wisely
If you stay with the team, don't waste time aiming on lights. You are not meant to fight light mech. It's like fighting a single tank with a nuclear strike. You are meant to fight everything else than light. If you dying while in the middle of the team by a light, epic team failure. Not your fault. Lights are the primary targets of lights and mediums, and maybe fast and weird heavies builds that come with streak SRMs or pulse lasers.

Edited by xe N on, 16 April 2019 - 11:46 AM.


#169 Alienized

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 01:42 PM

View Postxe N on, on 16 April 2019 - 11:33 AM, said:

Assaults going 39 kph are not viable in QP. Brawling assaults are not viable in QP.



complete BS.

nothing else.

lots of assaults can brawl perfectly fine. too many people are just not man enough to brawl hard.

just like 39KPH mechs can be viable if you know what to do.

you dont seem to be a person that knows alot about anything.

#170 Bohxim

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 04:50 PM

View PostAlienized, on 16 April 2019 - 01:42 PM, said:



complete BS.

nothing else.

lots of assaults can brawl perfectly fine. too many people are just not man enough to brawl hard.

just like 39KPH mechs can be viable if you know what to do.

you dont seem to be a person that knows alot about anything.


I agree. Cyclops Q, A, mauler 1R, atlas, a couple kgc, gargoyles, Mad2c scorch, a couple mad cat 2 all brawl perfectly fine

#171 Prototelis

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 05:03 PM

View PostAlienized, on 16 April 2019 - 01:42 PM, said:


just like 39KPH mechs can be viable if you know what to do.



Maybe with some serious RNGesus, but in general NO.

39KPH isn't and should not be viable under most circumstances. Thats a bad ******* build.

#172 VonBruinwald

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 05:14 PM

View PostPrototelis, on 16 April 2019 - 05:03 PM, said:

39KPH isn't and should not be viable under most circumstances. Thats a bad ******* build.


Man, you must REALLY hate Urbies... what's wrong with you boy!

#173 Prototelis

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 05:27 PM

View PostVonBruinwald, on 16 April 2019 - 05:14 PM, said:


Man, you must REALLY hate Urbies... what's wrong with you boy!


I love the urbie. That doesn't mean the stock urbie is good.

#174 GuardDogg

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 06:39 PM

View PostAlienized, on 16 April 2019 - 01:42 PM, said:



complete BS.

nothing else.

lots of assaults can brawl perfectly fine. too many people are just not man enough to brawl hard.

just like 39KPH mechs can be viable if you know what to do.

you dont seem to be a person that knows alot about anything.


Exactly. I have mostly Assault brawlers that can kick butt. That I have to give em up, because I am suppose to be at a location (center) at the very exact time as a light/Medium mech. ("Why are those assaults not here yet?, why are those assaults so slow?"), and now told to chance engine size from the slowest to a faster, or it is a crappy build. Like changing my original 1969 Mustang muscle car engine to a dragster big block. No..

Edited by GuardDogg, 16 April 2019 - 06:42 PM.


#175 Prototelis

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 06:41 PM

Your builds are bad.

#176 RickySpanish

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 06:48 PM

View PostAlienized, on 16 April 2019 - 01:42 PM, said:



complete BS.

nothing else.

lots of assaults can brawl perfectly fine. too many people are just not man enough to brawl hard.

just like 39KPH mechs can be viable if you know what to do.

you dont seem to be a person that knows alot about anything.


They cannot, not reliably. Check my Jarl's list, see that 99% outlier? That was me in T4 in a Scorch over a couple of weeks here and there, getting 6 kill games. See where it dips? That's me trying to brawl in higher tiers until I start trying other builds. In general, brawlers get called out when you are in games with good players, then they just die or get shut out of range. It is still possible to get lucky but it is an uphill battle. The Sleipnir though actually is fantastic, that's the *only* assault I would ever brawl in though.

#177 GuardDogg

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 07:24 PM

View PostPrototelis, on 16 April 2019 - 06:41 PM, said:

Your builds are bad.


You do not know my builds. I just been terrible assault pilot, a lot lately.

Edited by GuardDogg, 16 April 2019 - 07:31 PM.


#178 Prototelis

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 07:53 PM

View PostGuardDogg, on 16 April 2019 - 07:24 PM, said:


You do not know my builds. I just been terrible assault pilot, a lot lately.


If you're piloting a 38KPH assault your build is bad.

#179 Wil McCullough

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 07:56 PM

View PostGuardDogg, on 16 April 2019 - 06:39 PM, said:


Exactly. I have mostly Assault brawlers that can kick butt. That I have to give em up, because I am suppose to be at a location (center) at the very exact time as a light/Medium mech. ("Why are those assaults not here yet?, why are those assaults so slow?"), and now told to chance engine size from the slowest to a faster, or it is a crappy build. Like changing my original 1969 Mustang muscle car engine to a dragster big block. No..


Looks like you are unwilling to take advice and insist on continuing playing the way you do. Then deal with the salt.

#180 xe N on

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 08:09 PM

View PostAlienized, on 16 April 2019 - 01:42 PM, said:


lots of assaults can brawl perfectly fine. too many people are just not man enough to brawl hard.


Posted Image The problem is not that assault mechs cannot brawl. The problem is that most other player (at least on EU servers) won't support pushing with you until they got numerical superiority. They just stay behind. And the assault will be focused down.

Another problem is that on certain maps even with numerical superiority brawling starts quite late. In this case the assault does no damage until late game. That wastes potential damage.

It's the same problem with 39 kph assaults. With a team protecting them they would be fine. But you cannot expect that sort of team play in QP.

Edited by xe N on, 16 April 2019 - 08:23 PM.






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