86 replies to this topic

[PhoenixFire55]

FRAGTAST1C, on 24 April 2019 - 09:18 PM, said:

If you're incapable of analyzing what you're saying, then let me explain.

How much exp do you get for yolo?

How much exp do you get for playing well?

Since you are flat out lieing to cover your agenda of suicide-exp-farming, let me explain.

It doesn't matter how much exp you earn for yolo.
It matters how much exp you earn per minute of play.
Needless to say, yoloing on the first minute and dieing rather than going all the way in a 10-15 minute match allows you to do like 5 times more matches in the same timespan. So unless you earn five times more exp by not yoloing, which isn't anywhere near the case for the majority of players, then yolo-suicide-repeat method allows you to farm exp way faster and with zero effort involved.

Mech locking stays, deal with it. If anything we need player locking as well.

[ingramli]

FRAGTAST1C, on 25 April 2019 - 02:53 AM, said:

"Reduce frustration, customer happy, customer buy".

While it is legit, "customer" refer to someone who buy something. So here's the question,

1. Have you enabled premium time?
2. Have you bought MC for spare duplicate mech(s) and mech bay(s) which you want to use repeatedly?

If you have done both 1 & 2, your frustration should not exist, so does this topic, period.

Edited by ingramli, 25 April 2019 - 03:01 AM.

[FRAGTAST1C]

PhoenixFire55, on 25 April 2019 - 02:54 AM, said:

Since you are flat out lieing to cover your agenda of suicide-exp-farming, let me explain.

Suicide farming? I'm not the one who's doing it. I've shown screenshots of playing well and getting massive exp. You're just completely missing the point 'cause you have this notion of QP being the main game mode. It shouldn't be. If you suicide and die within the first minute, how much exp are you getting? Answer that question first before you accuse someone else of lying.

ingramli, on 25 April 2019 - 02:59 AM, said:

While it is legit, "customer" refer to someone who buy something. So here's the question,

1. Have you enabled premium time?
2. Have you bought MC for spare duplicate mech(s) and mech bay(s) which you want to use repeatedly?

If you have done both 1 & 2, your frustration should not exist, so does this topic, period.

I have bought many mechs and lots of MC with real money. I don't need to buy duplicates to field them immediately in battle. The point is to level up each mech with the least furstration as possible to enjoy the game. Buying duplicates for the sake of deploying into battle is straight up idiotic whichever way you look at it. Buying duplicates for Drop Decks, maybe. But that is not the topic at hand here, is it?

[FRAGTAST1C]

Feral Clown, on 25 April 2019 - 02:32 AM, said:

Perhaps you can't make sense of what should be obvious. I will throw you a bone by explaining it further. If you were able to launch after dying, you could level mechs quickly by volume of games played. This is a free to play model and grinding/time invested is a part of that model. So one PGI doesn't want to encourage people running in and dying fast. 2nd, PGI has mechanics in place to reduce grind (ie xp conversion) so they are not going to change this no matter how bewildered you are or what you feel quick play should mean and lose out on revenue. So this thread is particularly useless especially considering your inability to digest what people are explaining to you and that it's been covered in the past ad nauseum.

So, PGI wants players to grind but slowly?

[PhoenixFire55]

FRAGTAST1C, on 25 April 2019 - 03:14 AM, said:

Suicide farming? I'm not the one who's doing it.

You can't do it now, thats why you are asking for a removal of a mech-lock, its so blatantly obvious its not even funny.

[ingramli]

FRAGTAST1C, on 25 April 2019 - 03:14 AM, said:

Suicide farming? I'm not the one who's doing it. I've shown screenshots of playing well and getting massive exp. You're just completely missing the point 'cause you have this notion of QP being the main game mode. It shouldn't be. If you suicide and die within the first minute, how much exp are you getting? Answer that question first before you accuse someone else of lying.



I have bought many mechs and lots of MC with real money. I don't need to buy duplicates to field them immediately in battle. The point is to level up each mech with the least furstration as possible to enjoy the game. Buying duplicates for the sake of deploying into battle is straight up idiotic whichever way you look at it. Buying duplicates for Drop Decks, maybe. But that is not the topic at hand here, is it?

If you think it is idiotic, just dont do it. As a F2P game, grind is one of the core elements. Mech locking is one of the grind element. If you find the wait for release of mech is unbearable, pay for a 2nd mech, otherwise, bear with it.

[ingramli]

FRAGTAST1C, on 25 April 2019 - 03:25 AM, said:

So, PGI wants players to grind but slowly?

Sort of, at least for free player, the longer the grind process (before reaching master status), the more advantage your opponents enjoy (killing a new mech without skill pt investment is literally faster with the existence of defensive tree). Make it simple, there are 2 kind of players in a F2P game,

1. Those who pay to play;
2. Those who dont,

As a F2P PVP game, PGI needs to make sure (1) got better gaming experience than (2). If you dont pay, you are expected to be the source of joy for (1) to destroy (kill) in the process of grind. Grind, pay or leave, it is your call.

[FRAGTAST1C]

PhoenixFire55, on 25 April 2019 - 03:33 AM, said:

You can't do it now, thats why you are asking for a removal of a mech-lock, its so blatantly obvious its not even funny.

Is this some troll attempt like how it goes on in real life where you straw man someone? Good job in doing that.

[Nesutizale]

ingramli, on 25 April 2019 - 03:42 AM, said:

Sort of, at least for free player, the longer the grind process (before reaching master status), the more advantage your opponents enjoy (killing a new mech without skill pt investment is literally faster with the existence of defensive tree). Make it simple, there are 2 kind of players in a F2P game,

1. Those who pay to play;
2. Those who dont,

As a F2P PVP game, PGI needs to make sure (1) got better gaming experience than (2). If you dont pay, you are expected to be the source of joy for (1) to destroy (kill) in the process of grind. Grind, pay or leave, it is your call.

Yes that pretty much sums up all F2P titles. Also I must say from the ones I played MWO is very generouse. You don't have repair costs (anymore?), we have lots of events with free money, XP and even MC.
Consumables are nice to have and depending on your skill level you can even pay them without premium time.

The differance between a skilled mech and a non skilled is manageable. You have to play less agressive and maybe be a bit more sneaky/carefull but it can be done...except for assaults, you get your *** handed, its in the name

[Ruccus]

When you drop in a match you're committing to that match, so I don't think it's unreasonable to lock the mech until the match is over. This is supposed to be a team game and after you're dead you can still help out by pointing out weak spots on mechs or suggest tactics, and just supporting your teammates. Occasionally there will be the annoying 'stealth flea/locust' at the end of a match that draws out the time but that doesn't happen too often and you might be the one to notice a small mech running behind objects in the distance and call it out to your team.

For me I'll usually stay to the end of the match unless I get killed really early and it looks like it's going to be a boring snipefest. At any one time I have a few mechs that I switch between (currently I'm skilling up my Marauder 2s, a Champion 1N2, a High Roller, and just finished mastering an Archer 5W) and then there are some mastered mechs I like that I'll drop in for fun.

I've never felt that I needed to play a mech that's still currently locked into a match I chose to leave early and I don't think it's a big deal to have to drop in a different mech if you do choose to leave a game early. That may be part of the reason why we get multiple free mech bays right from the start.

[Feral Clown]

FRAGTAST1C, on 25 April 2019 - 03:25 AM, said:

So, PGI wants players to grind but slowly?

Yes. You seem to think those of us responding to you are fans of locked mechs. It's not the case though, we simply understand the why's. PGI has it set up so you can reduce grind by giving them money. Pretty much all free to play games include grind with some form of monitory mechanism to reduce or avoid this.

[Feral Clown]

PhoenixFire55, on 25 April 2019 - 02:54 AM, said:

Since you are flat out lieing to cover your agenda of suicide-exp-farming, let me explain.
It doesn't matter how much exp you earn for yolo.
It matters how much exp you earn per minute of play.
Needless to say, yoloing on the first minute and dieing rather than going all the way in a 10-15 minute match allows you to do like 5 times more matches in the same timespan. So unless you earn five times more exp by not yoloing, which isn't anywhere near the case for the majority of players, then yolo-suicide-repeat method allows you to farm exp way faster and with zero effort involved.
Mech locking stays, deal with it. If anything we need player locking as well.

While I do like your assertion of locking players in theory to reduce yoloists, I would hate the increased likelihood of getting stuck with the same potatoes repeatedly, and the hurry up and die whine is already bad enough.

[R Valentine]

Maddermax, on 24 April 2019 - 03:01 PM, said:

I dislike people hiding and not fighting too, it’s fairly rare but annoying, but the easiest way to get rid of that is to remove KDR for Kills per Match, so your deaths aren’t seen as a penalty for those who care about stats.

Since 3rd party sites can track stats, you can't just remove KDR. If PGI stops tracking it, someone else will. And although it's still more often than not that people don't hide for their KDR, it's becoming more and more common. Stealth armor has made things like KDR saving even easier since you can't track their mech on radar to begin with.

Maddermax, on 24 April 2019 - 03:01 PM, said:

Anyway, KDR savers are mostly in the higher tiers as someone mentioned above, not at T5/4 games.

I get T4s/5s in my games all the time as T1, because there isn't enough people in the queue to begin with. The PSR system goes right out the window when there isn't enough people in any given tier, or even sets of tiers, to fill out a match. Even when matches do get filled out, I often end up with at least half of the people I just saw in the previous match, and those people don't even switch teams. I get the same opponents and teammates. What happens in T1/2 affects everyone. This game isn't big enough for it to be isolated.

And I'll never really understand the "suicide XP" argument. Vets can already suicide for events like UAV detection, damage count, match score, and whatever else have you. And if you did want to suicide XP a mech it's not that hard either. You just need to be suiciding more than one. Instead of buying 1 new mech, buy 3, or at least level up 3 since there's probably 1 or 2 others in your stable that aren't maxed out. Again, this is only a mechanic that affects new, or newer, players.

[PhoenixFire55]

Feral Clown, on 25 April 2019 - 05:49 AM, said:

While I do like your assertion of locking players in theory to reduce yoloists, I would hate the increased likelihood of getting stuck with the same potatoes repeatedly, and the hurry up and die whine is already bad enough.

As if potatoes don't leave the match right after they die early? lol

[Feral Clown]

PhoenixFire55, on 25 April 2019 - 06:13 AM, said:

As if potatoes don't leave the match right after they die early? lol

They often do, but imagine being on a crappy team then all of being out at the same time and launching again at the same time. It possible that may increase the chances of getting stuck with people. Already at certain off hours I play, it seems that the pool is like a hundred players or less. And often during these off peak times I get stuck with a lot of the same players which I surmise may be due to to matchmaker working with available classes/weight. Again though that's just one minor worry and I like the idea of slowing down those players who are continuously running in and dying. If you have a chance to catch Ash's stream, there are a couple of players infamous for doing this game in and game out. Would be nice to slow their rate of aggro causing behaviour, but I would be more inclined to a penalty system similar to the current tk one in place. You die in under a minute? Ten second time out. Do it again next match? Sit for two and think about what you're doing. Third time? PGI sends me their home address.... I think that system could work.

[Nesutizale]

Quote

They often do, but imagine being on a crappy team then all of being out at the same time and launching again at the same time. It possible that may increase the chances of getting stuck with people. Already at certain off hours I play, it seems that the pool is like a hundred players or less

Oh ask Phoenix, we have so many players online at the same time that matchmaking isn't a problem because there are hundrets of people. Don't worry about getting matched with the same people again.

[PhoenixFire55]

Feral Clown, on 25 April 2019 - 08:27 AM, said:

They often do, but imagine being on a crappy team then all of being out at the same time and launching again at the same time. It possible that may increase the chances of getting stuck with people. Already at certain off hours I play, it seems that the pool is like a hundred players or less. And often during these off peak times I get stuck with a lot of the same players which I surmise may be due to to matchmaker working with available classes/weight. Again though that's just one minor worry and I like the idea of slowing down those players who are continuously running in and dying. If you have a chance to catch Ash's stream, there are a couple of players infamous for doing this game in and game out. Would be nice to slow their rate of aggro causing behaviour, but I would be more inclined to a penalty system similar to the current tk one in place. You die in under a minute? Ten second time out. Do it again next match? Sit for two and think about what you're doing. Third time? PGI sends me their home address.... I think that system could work.

We all know it takes effort to implement, so instead of doing it PGI delegates you the right to do it ... By reporting people in-game. The problem with that tho, is that going through the reports still takes effort, so ... Yeah, well ... nothing happens. You get the idea.

Population might be relatively low, especially outside of EU/NA peak hours. However, ask yourself a question, how many times you end with exact same 24 people even just two matches in a row? ... That quite frankly never happens. Even 12 out of 24 same people in two games in a row hardly ever happens, if ever at all ... 5-6 same names, sure, but thats to be expected among people with similar skill level, especially towards the ends of Elo/PSR distribution, where the amount of players of matching skill level in minimal.

[Tesunie]

FRAGTAST1C, on 25 April 2019 - 03:14 AM, said:

Suicide farming? I'm not the one who's doing it. I've shown screenshots of playing well and getting massive exp. You're just completely missing the point 'cause you have this notion of QP being the main game mode. It shouldn't be. If you suicide and die within the first minute, how much exp are you getting? Answer that question first before you accuse someone else of lying.

The locking of mechs into a match until the match ends is a system to prevent farming resources through suicide rushes. Rather you do this or not is irrelevant to the system's performance in preventing this kind of abuse.

The question you should be asking is not how much experience you can gain through a suicide rush tactic "within the first minute" (which will vary and is impossible to actually give you numbers), but instead should be how much resources could be gained per hr of play through suicide rushing tactics and getting back into games as quickly as possible. Even if someone earned a third less experience per suicide rush, but could get into a game within 3 minutes rather than 13-16 minutes (considering MM and loading screens), (I'll use 13 minutes as my low estimate) they could play almost 5 matches in the span other people would take to play a single match. Over the course of an hour, that would increase their net gains by almost a full 2 matches worth or rewards within an hr of play. Multiply that by each hr of play... and we have issues with suicide farmers ONCE AGAIN.

Hint: We had this issue once before. Locking mechs into a match was one of several steps taken to prevent this and encourage people to actually play the game.

FRAGTAST1C, on 25 April 2019 - 03:25 AM, said:

So, PGI wants players to grind but slowly?

If players progressed to quickly, than players would quickly run out of goals to continue playing, resulting in the fast death of the game. If players take too long to progress in the game, than players get frustrated and leave the game without reaching any reasonable goals. It's the common thing with games.

Which type of game do you enjoy more? A game you can beat in under 30 minutes? Or a game you can work on for hours with a lot of optional content to help you choose your pace? Or do you like games you can play for years and still never beat?

Most people I presume prefer game type 2. I've gotten games I literally beat within 30 minutes of starting it, with the "content" being "beat the game under different challenges to unlock new skins/stuff". Don't know about anyone else, but after playing it through 1.5 times... I was board and done with the thing, wishing I had never even purchased the game to begin with. So there is something to be said about pacing player progress within a game.

I've also got games that I've never beaten (Star Ocean is one of them... I should play that game again and not worry about "unlocking everything") and they progressed so slowly that it was almost torture to continue playing it after a month of chipping away at it... So there is something to be said about "too grindy".

Either way, I don't believe the mech locking causes a "too grindy" situation with this game's progress.

[Feral Clown]

PhoenixFire55, on 25 April 2019 - 09:55 AM, said:

We all know it takes effort to implement, so instead of doing it PGI delegates you the right to do it ... By reporting people in-game. The problem with that tho, is that going through the reports still takes effort, so ... Yeah, well ... nothing happens. You get the idea.
Population might be relatively low, especially outside of EU/NA peak hours. However, ask yourself a question, how many times you end with exact same 24 people even just two matches in a row? ... That quite frankly never happens. Even 12 out of 24 same people in two games in a row hardly ever happens, if ever at all ... 5-6 same names, sure, but thats to be expected among people with similar skill level, especially towards the ends of Elo/PSR distribution, where the amount of players of matching skill level in minimal.

Fair enough but how many times do I see the same 12 or so the next match be it on my side or other? Or what has happened to me is getting somehow synched with two or three guys I would really rather not be? That happens and if we didn't allow people that die to quit, grab a new mech and launch I think that would increase. Maybe not by a ton, but enough to be annoying I bet. But I'd be willing to give it a shot to see. Still wish there were actual penalties to discourage people and think since the system is in already it could be tweaked easily to account for time played as a factor.

[LordNothing]

PhoenixFire55, on 25 April 2019 - 02:47 AM, said:

Level another thing or play an already maxed out mech. If you level whatever you are levelling 5 mins later you won't die.

And for the record, you have no clue why "squirrel" drags it out and what said "squirrel" can actually do before you let him play it out.

hard to do when you only have one thing left that needs mastering. i currently have 7, but thats because i ended up with a lot of free mechs recently. the usual case is i only have the one decent variant of the mech of the month to worry about.

also i dont care what the squirrel is doing. he is wasting my time. most of the time they dart around aimlessly and get ganked in a shamefull way. sometimes they avoid combat and preserve their kdr. sometimes they dont know what they are doing. in all cases they are wasting my time. in the rare case where they are actually killing things, its usually worth the watch and thus time is not wasted.

Edited by LordNothing, 25 April 2019 - 12:39 PM.