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Why Bother Having Divisions Without Weight Restrictions?


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#1 Mercutio Xander

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Posted 07 May 2019 - 05:07 PM

Yes, I know that certain 'Mech variants might have infinitely better performance than their contemporaries, and that a skilled light pilot can beat an assault 'mech. But in what universe is it considered acceptable for 'mechs the size of Fleas and Spiders to share the same tier as Hunchbacks? I can understand having a 'mech going against an opponent 10 or even 15 tons above them, but when there are such astronomical gaps in tonnage with all the divisions, it feels like there's not much point to the division system in the first place... I'm not even going to try admitting I'm close to decent at this game, my stats can speak for themselves, but something just doesn't sit right with me about the current division system.

#2 Makenzie71

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Posted 07 May 2019 - 07:45 PM

The divisions are sorted by performance, not weight.

#3 VigorousApathy

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Posted 07 May 2019 - 07:59 PM

Im 15-1 in a spider right now.

#4 justcallme A S H

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Posted 07 May 2019 - 08:14 PM

System is fine.

Divisions while not perfect are far better now than they were. There is a bit of rock/paper/scissors and then making a build work in a off-match scenario is the sign of skill.

So yes having a 60T face off against 30T makes it a challenge.

#5 Dionnsai

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Posted 08 May 2019 - 05:36 AM

Solaris is very good this season, every division has a large variety of mechs that can win. Apparently Merata is even beating annis with a deathstrike in div 1. The adjusted elo buff on first 10 matches is much better. There are still a few mechs i'd like to see moved, like the Piranha, and the KDK3, but overall things are looking good.

#6 Alexandros

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Posted 09 May 2019 - 04:38 PM

Mercutio I am with you on this. This is the worst interpretation of Solaris. Of course the system is fine for the above people, they are permanent residents of the top list so and without offence I assume they don't give a damn about the real Solaris divisions which are 5 (according to type and one mixed).

#7 VigorousApathy

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Posted 09 May 2019 - 05:21 PM

Follow the lore and watch how quickly a single mech, variant, and loadout, with a specific set of skills becomes division meta.

This season has been a breath of fresh air, with more than 3 or 4 chassis and variants being capable of winning consistently.

Edit: Except div 1 which as dionnsai mentioned, is being thoroughly tested for multiple mechs.

Edited by VigorousApathy, 09 May 2019 - 10:09 PM.


#8 Bowelhacker

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Posted 09 May 2019 - 09:42 PM

What was it in the first season? Vindicator with MRMs and MGs tearing up whatever division it was in?

#9 OZHomerOZ

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Posted 10 May 2019 - 12:45 AM

Div 7 if I remember coerrectly

#10 Horseman

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Posted 10 May 2019 - 06:15 AM

Yep. And this season, it's Kit Foxes instead :P

#11 Steel Raven

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 11:04 AM

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 07 May 2019 - 08:14 PM, said:

System is fine.


No it's not, too often in Div 2, I'm in a Stalker or Marauder Assault mech slapping around a Piranha. Then I get killed by a Banshee 3S if I pilot anything lighter than a Assault.

The Divisions exist to give under preforming mechs like the Vindicator, Uziel and Zeus a leg to stand on, usually by having them go up against better mechs with less armor.

#12 justcallme A S H

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 07:33 PM

So it sounds like you just cant hit the PIR.

That's an aim issue.

#13 Makenzie71

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 07:39 PM

Sometimes it's a mech issue. A lot of the meta builds in 2 are all torso jobs...they couldn't hit the piranha if they wanted to. Of course, as I've said elsewhere, it's a decision you make to go in with that vulnerability...not the game's fault...but unless you're really precise a piranha can slip in under just about everything and the match is over.

It's one of the reasons I like my Nightstar.

#14 PhoenixFire55

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 02:21 AM

The one thing I don't like about Solaris is the fact that you can actually see what the enemy is dropping in and pretty much tell his loadout from that pre-match short clip as well. As someone who mostly drops with maxed out tonnage in each division, I can confirm it makes my job so much easier in matches against lighter opponents. Because if it weren't for that, it obviously would have been easier for say a light to scout an assault, rather than the other way around, and adjust its tactics accordingly within a given match.

#15 Horseman

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 07:51 AM

View PostPhoenixFire55, on 17 May 2019 - 02:21 AM, said:

The one thing I don't like about Solaris is the fact that you can actually see what the enemy is dropping in and pretty much tell his loadout from that pre-match short clip as well.

Your ability to determine the loadout from that clip and - more importantly - to use that knowledge to inform your strategy during the match? That, my friend, is a form of skill.
Trust me when I say that there is no shortage of players who lack those particular abilities.

#16 Makenzie71

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 09:25 AM

Exactly. That little clip of the bad guy is how i know whether to stand on the right side of the hill facing left, or the left side of the hill facing right.

#17 C337Skymaster

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Posted 09 June 2019 - 08:52 PM

I'm here to take issue with the notion of Piranhas in Div 2. Specifically that you're pitting a 20-tonner against 90 and 100 tonners, and specifically that, due to meta builds and the nature of the different weight classes, you either have to build anti-assault, or anti-light (either short-range, heavy hitting torso weapons, or longer-ranged, fast firing arm weapons, or streaks). My Blood Asp, with a typical brawl build, and which can obliterate almost everything except a Cyclops, just got picked apart by a Piranha, 444 dmg to 39. (I took a screenshot, but uploading it to this forum post is less than intuitive).

Solaris divisions are supposed to be separated by weight class. That keeps mobility and available weapon configurations approximately on par with all potential opponents. I can see keeping the current 7 divisions and splitting the weight classes up further (so you don't have a Bushwacker or Ryoken stomping all over a poor Vulcan, etc), but basing Solaris divisions on Quick Play performance stats is ***-backwards. A Piranha will perform very differently if all it sees are Osirises, vs if all it sees are King Crabs.

Similarly, Vultures are high-performers in QP because they carry lots of missiles, and generally hang back raining holy death on the enemy team. Or they can obliterate lighter 'mechs with tons of streaks. (How I got revenge on the Piranha that killed my Blood Asp), but they can't carry the armor and sufficient firepower to dance toe-to-toe with an assault 'mech and have a hope of winning. I honestly cringe and feel bad for the poor sucker playing a Vulture in Div 2 every time I see one, because I know that, regardless of his build, my assault 'mech is going to wreck his day. On the other hand, if those were kept in the same division as Bushwackers, or as Mad Cats, it might have a fighting chance. It's got no chance against Loki or Cauldron Born laser vomit, though, so a little messing with the stats within 10 or 15 tons is acceptable, but more than that is too much.

#18 PhoenixFire55

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Posted 10 June 2019 - 12:17 AM

View PostC337Skymaster, on 09 June 2019 - 08:52 PM, said:

My Blood Asp, with a typical brawl build, and which can obliterate almost everything except a Cyclops, just got picked apart by a Piranha, 444 dmg to 39. (I took a screenshot, but uploading it to this forum post is less than intuitive).

I think I know where the actual problem is ... Sadly for you, its not the presence of Piranha in Div.2.

#19 Horseman

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Posted 10 June 2019 - 12:15 PM

View PostC337Skymaster, on 09 June 2019 - 08:52 PM, said:

My Blood Asp, with a typical brawl build, and which can obliterate almost everything except a Cyclops, just got picked apart by a Piranha, 444 dmg to 39. (I took a screenshot, but uploading it to this forum post is less than intuitive).
That's a pilot issue.

Quote

Solaris divisions are supposed to be separated by weight class.
No, they're not. They definitely began that way - which can still be seen in the distribution of chassis between divisions - but they've been adjusted basing on chassis performance from that point.

Quote

A Piranha will perform very differently if all it sees are Osirises, vs if all it sees are King Crabs.
Have you ever heard of Paper-Scissors-Rock?

#20 Makenzie71

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Posted 10 June 2019 - 03:51 PM

View PostHorseman, on 10 June 2019 - 12:15 PM, said:

Paper-Scissors-Rock?


no one says that






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