92 replies to this topic

[Phoenix 72]

I think it is interesting that what people consider the top is actually quite different for everybody... According to what some people in this thread consider Top Tier, that makes my Smurf account Top Tier... While I consider myself more of an above average player... I know I am certainly not all that good...

[VonBruinwald]

Verilligo, on 12 May 2019 - 11:44 AM, said:

You're really hung up on this Illuminati-styled conspiracy stuff, aren't you? It's not much of a backroom meeting if it's widely known about, yeah?

The meeting is known but the agenda isn't. What happens behind those closed doors is heresay.

If PGI put out some... communications.... that they were discussing certain things with members of the community it would go along way and would also help the community know who to talk and help provide feedback to PGI. We don't know what's really going on so I play the conspiracy card.

It doesn't help that there's been inconsistencies between what people say has been/not been discussed.

[Vxheous]

Verilligo, on 12 May 2019 - 11:44 AM, said:

You're really hung up on this Illuminati-styled conspiracy stuff, aren't you? It's not much of a backroom meeting if it's widely known about, yeah?

Shh, dont tell VonBruinwald, but the last time Ash met with PGI, a plan was discussed to purge all forum dissenters from the game. PGI agrees with Ash that there's far too much misinformation on the forums, and it needs to be curbed. This planned purge will occur in approximately 90 days.

[Verilligo]

VonBruinwald, on 12 May 2019 - 12:15 PM, said:

The meeting is known but the agenda isn't. What happens behind those closed doors is heresay.

If PGI put out some... communications.... that they were discussing certain things with members of the community it would go along way and would also help the community know who to talk and help provide feedback to PGI. We don't know what's really going on so I play the conspiracy card.

It doesn't help that there's been inconsistencies between what people say has been/not been discussed.

And you don't think that the inconsistencies are because there was no specific agenda and what was discussed was haphazardly thrown together at best? I mean I can believe ASH had his stuff together and was focused in on discussions regarding Faction Play and what could be realistically done to improve the state of things without making sweeping changes and taking a load of dev time away from MW5. But it was pretty obvious from the MechCon stage show that too much dev time was spent on the PODS than actually creating AGENDAS of any sort, let alone for a separate meeting.

I'm sure other stuff may have been TALKED about, but not necessarily with any level of intensity or expectation that it might be acted on. I'm amazed we even got the LRM changes that we did, that took enough effort that it actually took away from time on the monthly patches. But given that was announced on the stage, whatever might have been discussed in the meeting was likely just about to apply it successfully.

[Monkey Lover]

From my own playing mostly in group q if youre in the 90% on jarls you will have 800 dmg games atleast a few times during the night.

So for me relating to 500ms it would be 10%

But really top tier in general would be 1%

Edited by Monkey Lover, 12 May 2019 - 12:50 PM.

[VonBruinwald]

Vxheous, on 12 May 2019 - 12:33 PM, said:

Shh, dont tell VonBruinwald, but the last time Ash met with PGI, a plan was discussed to purge all forum dissenters from the game. PGI agrees with Ash that there's far too much misinformation on the forums, and it needs to be curbed. This planned purge will occur in approximately 90 days.

I'll leave the topic on thread locking for a moment. The big conspiracy is the end of life cycle for MWO.

The Rifleman IIC has been one of their most popular mech packs in recent history but sadly the EOL cycle for MWO has started. Mechpacks are slowing in production and this game won't be supported past the this years mechcon (they might keep the servers going for a while though). So to make that last cash grab they're holding off on announcing the end. Russ almost let it slip early discussing MWOs future but if he drops the news early people will cancel their pre-orders for the Rifleman IIC. So what does he do. Hold off and leave people frustrated that his chat with Bombadl is taking so long. Only once the Rifleman has finished it's countdown and people start dropping in it does he announce the end.

Because once the players drop in a mech they can no longer get a refund... It's the last cash grab in the MWO cycle...

Edit: and that "FYI... moving pieces" is him moving assets and accounts out of Canada....

Conspiracy enough?

Edited by VonBruinwald, 12 May 2019 - 01:02 PM.

[The Zohan]

Well all stats aside when you play long enough, there are players that you see on the drop screen and either think a) well good that this guy is on my side or b ) hot damn, this is going to be a tough one.

These guys that you can tell from experience that they just perform every match. Justcallmeash from my experience falls in said category.

Stats are difficult to interpret in MWO imo, as they can be easily inflated. Just to many moving parts.

Edit: spelling

Edited by The Zohan, 12 May 2019 - 01:06 PM.

[Xiphias]

Darakor Stormwind, on 12 May 2019 - 11:52 AM, said:

I think it is interesting that what people consider the top is actually quite different for everybody... According to what some people in this thread consider Top Tier, that makes my Smurf account Top Tier... While I consider myself more of an above average player... I know I am certainly not all that good...

Is your alt in T1? Anything that isn't in T1 obviously doesn't count because it's easy to farm really high matchscores in lower tiers against weaker players. That said, high MS by itself isn't enough to make one top tier, since it can definitely be inflated by certain weapons. Having a >99% score makes you a solid player, however in my personal opinion being top tier requires additional skills that you really only get playing comp at a high level.

I can go pugging and average a 400 MS in a light. Jump into a Div A scrim and it's a completely different game. Playing against really good players amplifies any small mistakes that you make. What makes a player top tier is being able to play against other top tier players. Stats can give you a rough guess, but at the end of the day a player needs to be able to keep up with other to tier players to be top tier. Admittedly, that is perhaps a bit of a circular definition, but that's how I see it. If I (or any other player) can't pose a reasonable and consistent threat to the best players then I'm not a top tier player.

A top tier player should be able to meet the MS criteria mentioned if they try, but meeting the MS criteria by itself doesn't make one top tier.

I think this is something that a lot of players who haven't participated in something like Div A don't realize, just how good top players can be when they are running full meta, with a team, and giving 100%.

[ccrider]

I am the top tier. Only listen to me. MW:O needs to be brawling IS onions 100 percent of the time. Drop nothing else. Also, drop decks need a tonnage upgrade to 300 tons so this can happen.

[HenryFA]

99% on Jarls?

[Bowelhacker]

VonBruinwald, on 12 May 2019 - 12:58 PM, said:

I'll leave the topic on thread locking for a moment. The big conspiracy is the end of life cycle for MWO. The Rifleman IIC has been one of their most popular mech packs in recent history but sadly the EOL cycle for MWO has started. Mechpacks are slowing in production and this game won't be supported past the this years mechcon (they might keep the servers going for a while though). So to make that last cash grab they're holding off on announcing the end. Russ almost let it slip early discussing MWOs future but if he drops the news early people will cancel their pre-orders for the Rifleman IIC. So what does he do. Hold off and leave people frustrated that his chat with Bombadl is taking so long. Only once the Rifleman has finished it's countdown and people start dropping in it does he announce the end. Because once the players drop in a mech they can no longer get a refund... It's the last cash grab in the MWO cycle... Edit: and that "FYI... moving pieces" is him moving assets and accounts out of Canada.... Conspiracy enough?

How does that work with the Dervish coming out a month later?

[justcallme A S H]

Verilligo, on 12 May 2019 - 11:44 AM, said:

You're really hung up on this Illuminati-styled conspiracy stuff, aren't you? It's not much of a backroom meeting if it's widely known about, yeah?

lol... Exactly. I mean one of the issues I brought up was the recent Missle lock-on reticule change. The fact that making it tighter /harder to acquire only hurt the low-skill users in the game and I felt it should be reverted or at the least softened a little.

It's inteneded purpose as I saw it was to make SSRM a bit harder to use against lights but made them extremely diffifuclt to use. All it did was make it harder to use for low/mid skill users and gave high skill users a wider gap advantage they did not need.

I mean people claim meetings were all "for the boys" and for the "top end of town". The reality is that wasn't the case at all.

Some of it we were asked not to discuss and fair enough, I can respect that. Either way I don't lie and if I say that it was more about the general health and nothing about the "boys club" - you can believe that.

[Feral Clown]

Top tier can be subjective to various individuals, but the A list guys in comp have to be the generally accepted by most to be the upper crust. You can be the very best in quick play or cw, but if PGI isn't flying you out to Vancouver to compete in the World Championships than what can you really say?

As well the current system not separating group queue, from solo is a problem. Not significant enough to really skew things that far, but it does inflate some people's stats, which to be fair are based on a system that needs an overhaul to begin with (got 500 match score in an AMS Nova while only putting out 350 damage, and three stolen kills which is silly and I absolutely did not drive the win in any way shape or form).

Another thing I would add is real top guys can make stupid stuff work. Fusion and I were laughing about how Proton gets 1K or better game after game in Atlas' with a bunch of stuff you wouldn't think would work... then there was Ash's LRM/Rac Atlas which I was angry on the inside seeing him pull numbers in on a stream match in and match out. When you know the game so well you can do whatever and make it viable, you are upper, next tier the vast majority of the rest of us.

[Phoenix 72]

Xiphias, on 12 May 2019 - 01:20 PM, said:

Is your alt in T1? Anything that isn't in T1 obviously doesn't count because it's easy to farm really high matchscores in lower tiers against weaker players. That said, high MS by itself isn't enough to make one top tier, since it can definitely be inflated by certain weapons. Having a >99% score makes you a solid player, however in my personal opinion being top tier requires additional skills that you really only get playing comp at a high level.

Fair enough. My Smurf is T3 right now, but I seem to mostly get drops with T1 players... Looks like there are not all that many T5-T3 players left in the game. Which is why the Smurf is mostly retired, except for a few games here and there when I see an event reward I like. It's not like I am not playing the same people on this account anyway.

The main difference between the accounts was that I keep buying new Mechs on this one and skilling them up, then moving on and only getting my favourite (and most efficient) Mechs on the other account. I wanted to find out how I stack up when I do not mostly play unfinished Mechs.

[Valdarion Silarius]

VonBruinwald, on 12 May 2019 - 12:58 PM, said:

The Rifleman IIC has been one of their most popular mech packs in recent history but sadly the EOL cycle for MWO has started. Mechpacks are slowing in production and this game won't be supported past the this years mechcon (they might keep the servers going for a while though). So to make that last cash grab they're holding off on announcing the end. Russ almost let it slip early discussing MWOs future but if he drops the news early people will cancel their pre-orders for the Rifleman IIC.

I'm still not cancelling my pre-order for the Rifleman IIC. Even if the rumors are true and the life cycle of MW:O is coming to a close, I've been waiting too damn long to finally pilot this mech for so many years now. Even so we also have the Dervish and MW:O will still be hosted player server side if PGI publicly announces the official end of support for MW:O.

What I'd like to see is MW:O evolve into a MW:LL transition where people can host their own servers for QP, FW, etc. with a community development team to give it routinely patches and perhaps if PGI was even generous enough, release the source code for modding support so that we can see perhaps even more battletech related stuff added into MW:O. It would be something if we saw those cockpit tank models being used in game as real working battletech tanks and such.

[Curccu]

Hellbringer, on 12 May 2019 - 10:25 AM, said:

ill tell you what top tier is

1) doesnt get salty over stacked teams rolling his/her face in
2) plays with a focus on team victory not personal victory
3) knows the game inside out and know what to bring on what maps
4) helps newer players whenever possible
5) helps lead the team when nobody is drop calling
6) motivates team and lead by example
7) ACTUALLY has fun playing this game

8) last is some BS kill ratio/%%% percentage/etc that is utterly meaningless.

Top supportive community player and top tier skilled is not same thing IMO.
Only point 2 of those is required to be top skilled player.

Darakor Stormwind, on 12 May 2019 - 11:52 AM, said:

I think it is interesting that what people consider the top is actually quite different for everybody... According to what some people in this thread consider Top Tier, that makes my Smurf account Top Tier... While I consider myself more of an above average player... I know I am certainly not all that good...

Well smurf accounts are cheating matchmaker and giving you opponents who do not know how to play this game at all.
it's like you would have played some real sports for 15-20 Years and you would be on your prime now and you would go play in some kids league.

[Phoenix 72]

Curccu, on 12 May 2019 - 09:26 PM, said:

Well smurf accounts are cheating matchmaker and giving you opponents who do not know how to play this game at all.
it's like you would have played some real sports for 15-20 Years and you would be on your prime now and you would go play in some kids league.

While there is some difference in skill, I am not sure I agree that it is as huge as you make it sound. We all know population is low enough that T1 players regularly see T4 players in their matches unless they play during prime time. I know I ended up in matches against Putin, Endorush, Yeonne, Ash, Bowser and Baradul (well, actually with Baradul on my team) within 2 weeks of starting the account. I just realised I have only ever played with Baradul on my team and only ever played with Putin, Endorush and Bowser on the enemy team...

Anyway, getting sidetracked. My point is that it seems like I am much more likely to end up in a T1 match than a T5-T4 match from my observation.

But yeah, I agree that this gives you a leg up in averages and makes you seem better than you actually are. However, I am open to debate on how much.

[Wil McCullough]

Let's put it this way. I was consistently in the top 5% of players back when i played and guys like bearclaw wrecks my face when we're on opposite teams. The gap between top 5% and top 1-2% is HUGE. Most of the time, you have to change the entire gameplan to account for those players in the top 1-2%.

That could be forcing a mismatch. The only time i picked a fight with bearclaw and won was when i predicted which position he would take and surprise buttsecks-ed his laser vomit with a splatbacker. I walked out with less than half a mech so it was a phyrric victory even though i had all the advantage.

It can also be rationing ammo throughout the match because you need it to fight that top tier player when push comes to shove.

That or goon squading the guy to take him out asap. Against the really top players, even sacrificing 2-3 players to kill him might be the best move. I would gladly sacrifice my mech if i can drag an opposing top 1-2% player down with me.

[Curccu]

Darakor Stormwind, on 12 May 2019 - 10:08 PM, said:

While there is some difference in skill, I am not sure I agree that it is as huge as you make it sound. We all know population is low enough that T1 players regularly see T4 players in their matches unless they play during prime time. I know I ended up in matches against Putin, Endorush, Yeonne, Ash, Bowser and Baradul (well, actually with Baradul on my team) within 2 weeks of starting the account. I just realised I have only ever played with Baradul on my team and only ever played with Putin, Endorush and Bowser on the enemy team...

Anyway, getting sidetracked. My point is that it seems like I am much more likely to end up in a T1 match than a T5-T4 match from my observation.

But yeah, I agree that this gives you a leg up in averages and makes you seem better than you actually are. However, I am open to debate on how much.

No personal XP on this area but few friends of mine did some smurf playing end of 2018 and doubled/tripled their stats compared to main account... and talked about shooting turrets that have no clue what is happening around them.

but like I said no personal XP just what I have heard from sources I believe.

[Insignus]

1) You know what you do in the game, and what it means, meta or not.
2) You have a mastery of it, and are recognized as a leading practitioner
3) It makes the game better, either by supporting your team, or by damaging the enemy
4) You can do it without tilting or being toxic, without preconditions or a stellar team behind you.
5) There's some unique aspect that you add to the game, the meta, or the art that you're employing. You aren't simply copying and deleting folks off of GrimMechs.