72 replies to this topic

[Anjian]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 08 June 2019 - 09:12 PM, said:

inb4

MWO2 (on mobile)

.. what? don't you guys have phones?

War Robots has shown that the robo shooter can work on touchscreens only, and prove more than just be financially viable, it can be a financial success with over 120 million downloads on all platforms. But its pay to win monetization has sent deep discontent in its large player community and makes it ripe for disruption. Imagine being able to take all those players away...

Another game, ironically by creators of War Robots who left the company, called Battle of Titans, showed you can do a robot shooter using the Unreal Engine on mobile. This is complete with segmented hitboxes, with a map of sufficient size. The robots are extremely well detailed when you view them on the hanger using the touchscreen to pan the viewing angles. One note is that on mobile, you have to cut the teams to 5 or 6, and to ensure the match lasts longer and less immediate roll overs, a limited number of respawns from a drop deck is available. For this game you can do two or three and that depends on weight composition. Sounds familiar?

However on mobile, you do not have the precision to target individual components that easily. That is why such a mobile Mechwarrior game should be a Mechassault instead. On top of that, you can combine tanks and aircraft, which also happened in the original Mechassault. The game would also require balancing out manual and auto aiming and make both feel seamless in their mode transition. This will leave you pondering about the monetization methods, and that's where its going to be tricky.







The bottom line is that its technically possible to do a Mechwarrior Unreal Engine based game on mobile, and if executed well, there is a great opportunity for it to be a financial success.

Edited by Anjian, 09 June 2019 - 07:27 PM.

[Wolfos31]

I disagree with OP. I am critical of some things PGI has done, the MM being primary among them. But I think they've done a good job with MWO. I started playing back in 2017, so after most of the major changes had already happened and things were shaking out to stable. I've played quite a bit in the intervening two years and I've always enjoyed myself, every time I get on. Sometimes I lose, others I win. But the point is that the mech combat is solid. I think the best thing PGI might have done was release new game modes.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Hi Wolfos

when you came 2017 ,you have not seeing all the Disasters ..including Transverse, the Reddit Ban from PGI ,all the Marketing fails

[Snakesh1t]

MW Waldorf Statler, on 11 June 2019 - 06:39 PM, said:

Hi Wolfos

when you came 2017 ,you have not seeing all the Disasters ..including Transverse, the Reddit Ban from PGI ,all the Marketing fails

Do you think you're being too harsh on them because of everything else that was going on at the time? I've been following along here and there for a while now, been really active since last summer. And honestly, this game is the best F2P system out there. It rewards players for playing the game, without necessarily paying for it, and you don't have as much of the Wallet Warriorism that I see in War Thunder. Trying to do War Thunder events, not to mention their higher tier matchmaking, makes me want to rip what little hair I have out. But I get a much more friendly and laid back atmosphere with MWO.

Whatever their failings have been, PGI seems to have learned from their mistakes in some measure. Do I think the game is perfect? No. Is it good for what it is? Yes!

[Karl Streiger]

Snakesh1t, on 11 June 2019 - 10:03 PM, said:

Whatever their failings have been, PGI seems to have learned from their mistakes in some measure. Do I think the game is perfect? No. Is it good for what it is? Yes!

Unfortunately, I don't think the game will last long enough that you will change your mind. Its only a question of time - until you say - I can't take no more of this but sooner or later you end on the same island

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Snakesh1t, on 11 June 2019 - 10:03 PM, said:

Do you think you're being too harsh on them because of everything else that was going on at the time? I've been following along here and there for a while now, been really active since last summer. And honestly, this game is the best F2P system out there. It rewards players for playing the game, without necessarily paying for it, and you don't have as much of the Wallet Warriorism that I see in War Thunder. Trying to do War Thunder events, not to mention their higher tier matchmaking, makes me want to rip what little hair I have out. But I get a much more friendly and laid back atmosphere with MWO.

Whatever their failings have been, PGI seems to have learned from their mistakes in some measure. Do I think the game is perfect? No. Is it good for what it is? Yes!

Yes ...PGI learned ..to late ,and make new and other fails ...like a Selfiemaker, thats fall from the bridge and Thinking ...was a fault

[Willard Phule]

C E Dwyer, on 01 June 2019 - 08:21 AM, said:

LOL

took P.G.I to make a game

no other developer had the slightest interest in

love or hate.

This is it.. none will touch the game in this format again.


As to money and development making a good game.

All I have to say is

Bioware

Anthem..

Because Mechwarrior: Living Legends never existed.

[admiralbenbow123]

Karl Streiger, on 12 June 2019 - 01:55 AM, said:

Unfortunately, I don't think the game will last long enough that you will change your mind. Its only a question of time - until you say - I can't take no more of this but sooner or later you end on the same island

The fact that you hate the game doesn't mean that everyone else does/will.

[Nesutizale]

The game as its flaws but I am still playing and likeing it. I just don't take it seriouse anymore. When I win its fine, when I loose its fine as long I had my fun and that I have most of the time.

[Karl Streiger]

admiralbenbow123, on 12 June 2019 - 04:23 AM, said:

The fact that you hate the game doesn't mean that everyone else does/will.

Oh dear, sweet summer child

I don't hate the game - it was brilliant when I started to play - exact the right balance between fast paced action and still enough time to plan and move.
unfortunately it got worse with almost every major update.

Edited by Karl Streiger, 12 June 2019 - 05:21 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Willard Phule, on 12 June 2019 - 03:37 AM, said:

Because Mechwarrior: Living Legends never existed.

judging by the 6-10 people one seemed able to find online at their peak, I'd say.. that is a fair assessment.

[MeiSooHaityu]

The MW:LL Mod was important in demonstrating that there was still a passionate fan base for MechWarrior. Although it served a purpose in replicating and allowing fans to play a MechWarrior experience (as closely as Crysis could) when there wasn't a modern equivalent, I think that probably its biggest contribution was showing that there was still a large enough and passionate fan base for the franchise to warrant an official game.

Despite what was said above, no company was scrambling to make another MechWarrior. Smith and Tinker tried to gather hype with the old MechWarrior 5 trailer, but still no publishers were interested in funding a new MechWarrior game. To compound the issue and make it worse, Harmony Gold also started threatening legal action if the trailers weren't removed from gaming sites due to the Warhammer in the trailer.

Love them or hate them, PGI (and at the time IGP) were the only ones that were interested in making a MechWarrior experience. For that, we have to at least admit that they played an important part in bringing back the franchise from obscurity. Now, make no mistake, they did it because they saw and opportunity and they wanted to profit from it. Companies make products to make money, not just for passion alone. Still, that doesn't mean that a company can't have both a passion for the franchise while also looking to make a profit and grow their business.

After all, if you are going to make a Live Service product and make it for the long haul, you are most likely going to make something you have a passion for.

Regardless of the quality of MWO as a whole and how it will be remembered, it is a fun and engaging game (even if it never seemed to reach it's full potential). Its existence kept the franchise going through all these years post-MechAssault 2 and, it helped build the foundation for both HBS's BattleTech and the upcoming MechWarrior 5: Mercenaries.

There is a good chance that if MWO never happened, there wouldn't be anything right now but MW:LL. You may not like PGI's efforts or practices, and no one is going to argue that criticism isn't valid (heck, what company really doesn't deserve that from time to time). Despite that, it is also important to understand the important roll PGI has played in keeping a franchise we love current and relevant. They did make a game when no one else was interested in making a MechWarrior game.

TL;DR...

After everything though, and the contributions made by all parties and products involved...I still don't know if there is another company other than PGI willing to take the reins. There is a good chance that if PGI lost the license, the MechWarrior portion of the franchise may go dormant again. If you are a tactical game fan, that might not be so bad (HBS still making evolving BattleTech), but as a FPS/Simulator MechWarrior fan...not so good. Just keep in mind that there might not be another company that want to make this game.

Not to mention...if another company did take the franchise, would it contain practices that were not very consumer friendly? I don't buy EA or Activision products because I don't like how they treat customers. If you felt similar, would you really want that in a new follow-up MechWarrior game?

All in all, I am not saying that PGI should keep the license or lose it. Just that we should at least appreciate the roll they played in this franchise and also realize that the grass may not be as green as we think on the other side (another dev/publisher). Sometimes we need to be careful what we wish for.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 12 June 2019 - 08:29 AM.

[Willard Phule]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 June 2019 - 07:18 AM, said:

judging by the 6-10 people one seemed able to find online at their peak, I'd say.. that is a fair assessment.

6-10 people in LL was better than the current FP model and QP with all the PGI "tweaks" to the title. I wonder just exactly how long the LL guys thought about "ghost heat" before saying nope.

[MeiSooHaityu]

MW:LL is an amazing effort to make a mod. There is not a lot of other game mods that are as robust and all encompassing and have accomplished what it was able to accomplish. For that, all the people who have worked on it should be proud for what they were able to do. Doing what they did was no small feat.

I know...I know...Here come the..."but"...

MW:LL has a lot of flaws. There is a reason Bishop made the 6 players at peak time comment, and that probably speaks to the mod's biggest flaws.

I am a person who loves BattleTech, and because of that, I have played and learned games in the franchise that normally aren't in my wheel house so that I could experience more of the franchise. This means playing MechCommander and now HBS BattleTech. I normally don't play many games that are tactical (I'm not great at them), but I did what I could to learn them, and they sucked me in.

I tried MW:LL and I could not get into it. The mod is extremely un-friendly to new players. This is due to a host of reasons, however I think the main reason is that it is designed as a team game first and foremost, and most new players start out solo to try something out. It also is unbalanced, and the community that actively plays it are seasoned veterans that know all the advantages and how to take advantage of them. New players just get drilled into the ground.

One of it's biggest assets is it's inclusion of things like vehicles and Aerofighters, however that also contributes to a lack of focus and even more confusion to new players.

Essentially, there is a steep learning curve. What makes it worse is the game (mostly due to how Crysis handles multiplayer) punishes poor performance in a match. The better you do, the more currency you get and the bigger and badder the mechs you can buy. Players struggling can't keep up with the match's power creep and end up getting even more punished, and then fall even farther behind.

Add in a lack of polish and bugs, and it just ends up turning people away. I tried the game, I really did. I just found it frustrating and overall not very fun. I clipped through buildings, got stuck in terrain, seemed to spend a lot of time running around more than anything, and often got LRM'd from mechs I couldn't see because some little spotter vehicle kept creeping behind me spotting for LRM mechs past the horizon. It was pretty miserable.

In trying to appeal to a hardcore, team based experience with everything, it alienates those who are just trying to get their bearings. It would be like Playing HBS's BattleTech for the very first, but with Roguetech installed instead of a vanilla game, and then make the OpFor human players that have played for years. It would be fun for the experienced players, but new players would just quit in frustration.

MWO has issues and flaws, however MW:LL is not the perfect experience and where MWO has had more success bringing in new players and keeping them when MW:LL has struggled to do so. One has to think...What experience is truly the most flawed or possibly made the worse decisions in the long run.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 12 June 2019 - 09:15 AM.

[meteorol]

MeiSooHaityu, on 12 June 2019 - 08:25 AM, said:

The MW:LL Mod was important in demonstrating that there was still a passionate fan base for MechWarrior. Although it served a purpose in replicating and allowing fans to play a MechWarrior experience (as closely as Crysis could) when there wasn't a modern equivalent, I think that probably its biggest contribution was showing that there was still a large enough and passionate fan base for the franchise to warrant an official game.

How so? For large parts of it's existence, MW:LL had more servers (around 15) than players online at any given time. It quite literally averaged 10 players online in peak times over years. Worldwide. Its all time peak is something around 140 people playing at a time if i'm not mistaken. Again, worldwide.

If anything, those numbers show a passionate development team that put way more work into a mod than the playerbase they are reaching objectively justifies (which you have to give them credit for, they really were passionate about their project). And they are a massive "stay away" sign for any AAA-Publisher, alarming anyone who is in for big money to stay the f*ck away as far as possible from the IP.

Your assesment would be justified if MW:LL ever had a large fanbase that would have justified an commercial investment into an official game. But this never was the case. Far from it. Quite the opposite, really.

Edited by meteorol, 12 June 2019 - 10:52 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

meteorol, on 12 June 2019 - 10:50 AM, said:

How so? For large parts of it's existence, MW:LL had more servers (around 15) than players online at any given time. It quite literally averaged 10 players online in peak times over years. Worldwide. Its all time peak is something around 140 people playing at a time if i'm not mistaken. Again, worldwide.

If anything, those numbers show a passionate development team that put way more work into a mod than the playerbase they are reaching objectively justifies (which you have to give them credit for, they really were passionate about their project). And they are a massive "stay away" sign for any AAA-Publisher, alarming anyone who is in for big money to stay the f*ck away as far as possible from the IP.

Your assesment would be justified if MW:LL ever had a large fanbase that would have justified an commercial investment into an official game. But this never was the case. Far from it. Quite the opposite, really.

My point more over was that it was influential within the fanbase, and it helped show people were still passionate for the franchise. Also notice I said large enough, and not simply large. I can't speak for the exact number of players back in the day, nor could I tell you when it peaked. I can tell you that many people who follow BattleTech gaming in some fashion has heard of MechWarrior: Living Legends so it did cast a large shadow whatever it's hard player numbers were.

Essentially, It was a mod that kept a spotlight on the franchise. It made it's way into main stream publications, such as Kotaku, PCGames, and also won mod of the year from moddb.com back in 2009.

This isn't saying that it was main stream popularity, however it does point out at least that it was on many people's radar. After all, it was known by PGI/IGP and unsubstantiated rumor had it that development of the mod was asked to be sidelined for the upcoming MWO.

That is why I would like to think that it contributed to showing that there was a fan base for the franchise.


P.S. Also, if it really had the effect you are saying it would, then why did we get MWO? A small company like PGI and IGP wouldn't have made the effort if they thought it would be a bomb by that reasoning.

Maybe you are right, maybe I am giving the mod too much credit. I still can't help but think that it played a small part in carrying the torch for the franchise in some capacity.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 12 June 2019 - 11:13 AM.

[meteorol]

MeiSooHaityu, on 12 June 2019 - 11:10 AM, said:

P.S. Also, if it really had the effect you are saying it would, then why did we get MWO? A small company like PGI and IGP wouldn't have made the effort if they thought it would be a bomb by that reasoning.

I specifically mentioned AAA-Publishers being in for big money. The reason we got MWO is literally that PGI could not find a publisher willing to fund Mechwarrior 5. They pitched it and not a single publisher was willing to take the risk.

Going for a crowdfunded F2P model was their last resort, not their initial plan. PGI deserves some valid criticism for mistakes they made, but they are passionate about Mechwarrior. If they were only finacially motivated they would have probably called it a day after every Publisher they pitched Mechwarrior 5 to showed them the door.

[Novakaine]

[MeiSooHaityu]

meteorol, on 12 June 2019 - 11:39 AM, said:

I specifically mentioned AAA-Publishers being in for big money. The reason we got MWO is literally that PGI could not find a publisher willing to fund Mechwarrior 5. They pitched it and not a single publisher was willing to take the risk.

Going for a crowdfunded F2P model was their last resort, not their initial plan. PGI deserves some valid criticism for mistakes they made, but they are passionate about Mechwarrior. If they were only finacially motivated they would have probably called it a day after every Publisher they pitched Mechwarrior 5 to showed them the door.

I can agree with a lot of that.

Although, I'll say this...When it comes to AAA Publishers, if it can't be a 1st/3rd person shooter Live Service with shoe-horned Battle Royale and concurrent monetization, they generally aren't interested. I'm actually surprised Star Wars: Jedi Fallen Order is even a thing. Maybe Respawn's Apex Legends was their price to pay to get the Star Wars game made lol.

Of course the AAA landscape wasn't quite as bad years back when MWO was in development, however I don't like to pass up a chance to take a jab at AAA's like EA and Activision when the opportunity arises .

P.S. I deleted and reposted this so Novakane's post was right lol.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 12 June 2019 - 11:52 AM.

[Feral Clown]

Actually PGI deserves a lot of credit for running a free to play model and keeping the game going for the amount of time they have. There is a lot to like about a pvp competitive shooter with mechs. I'd say the primary issue in this niche is trying to keep people who want to run lore builds and really want something with campaigns happy, while also keeping with the original vision of a competitive shooter.

The population and the lack of available products to suit people's different visions and expectations can't be an easy task to manage for a company who simply can't afford to throw out the suggestions from part of their paying and small overall player base, even though they should.

The biggest thing I hold them at fault for was not listening years ago, and investing more time and effort into a better skill ranking system and matchmaker. A good deal of frustration is generated when everyone is ranked tier one and there is no way for matchmaker to sort out teams properly. There are just as many good players leaving in frustration as there are people leaving because they are unable to compete.