132 replies to this topic

[Weeny Machine]

thievingmagpi, on 04 June 2019 - 07:43 AM, said:

assaults should walk forward.

or, at the very least, not try to follow fast mechs.

fast mechs work by applying pressure to flanks and from angles where the enemy is not watching. there is no flank if everything is flank. assaults can't use their strength if they're constantly running.

I think that's also the main reason for nascaring: heavies and assaults running after the fast mechs.
I cringe when I see comments "do not nascar". Yeah, light mechs should stare down into the guns of assaults where 1 good alpha can take half the mech off

[Rosh87]

Appogee, on 04 June 2019 - 04:57 AM, said:

Yes.

You either need to stop taking slow Assaults to Quick Play matches... or come to terms with the inherent tradeoffs of the largest Mechs with the most armor and weapons.

Right but this strikes at the heart of the 'problem' (Challenge is probably a better phrasing). That the game - as presently exists - seems to suggest (to the Player) that they are WAY better off taking an 81-kmh Heavy Mech, that can carry Nearly as much firepower (these days) as a 100-tonner that only moves 48.6 kmh. It's extremely hard to argue (in QP at least) that the 100 tonner is much 'better' than the far faster - far-less-likely-to-ever-be-left-behind Heavy Mech.

THAT is what I mean by the 'challenge' / in the way the game is currently formatted / how it plays out most matches.

[Phoenix 72]

OP, there is no way you can get a random team to grow more braincells. And you cannot make them listen, either. All you can do is try to make sure that you are not part of the problem.

I have been playing online games for around 22 years, starting with multi user dungeons and in none of them have I experienced people as singularly bad and refusing to get better as in this game and as unwilling to listen to advice.

***EDIT: So do what you can to improve your chances of survival and kiss teamwork goodbye. Take care of yourself. So do yourself a favour and either play faster Assaults or something else...***

Edited by Darakor Stormwind, 04 June 2019 - 08:44 AM.

[Appogee]

Rosh87, on 04 June 2019 - 08:20 AM, said:

Right but this strikes at the heart of the 'problem' (Challenge is probably a better phrasing). That the game - as presently exists - seems to suggest (to the Player) that they are WAY better off taking an 81-kmh Heavy Mech, that can carry Nearly as much firepower (these days) as a 100-tonner that only moves 48.6 kmh. It's extremely hard to argue (in QP at least) that the 100 tonner is much 'better' than the far faster - far-less-likely-to-ever-be-left-behind Heavy Mech.

THAT is what I mean by the 'challenge' / in the way the game is currently formatted / how it plays out most matches.

I understand. It's why I don't take Assaults to QP unless I also equip a huge engine.

But generally, Lights and Heavies have better trade-offs IMHO.

It's not such a bad thing. If Assaults could dominate every QP match , then there'd be no reason to ever bring the other weight classes.

BTW, I find it best to level Assaults in FP where the battle is more often about brute force and entrenched positions. (But if you're new FP, please take the time to watch some videos about it before you drop in it. There are ways that FP battles play out that you need to understanding to hold up your end in a FP match.)

[DarkFhoenix]

Actually i find the classic maps rather helpful if you get your sick fun from an Anni running at 30 kph .

[Grus]

Or maybe dont take a slow assault?

[Novakaine]

Face it those speed demons are not going to wait for you.
Ask the assaults to stick together for mutual protection.
Then pick a point and go to it.
It's a rare to see a light trying to take on 4 Assaults by themselves.

[JC Daxion]

Team work... this game really needs to make finding teams and recruiting with chat channels better.

IMO 1# thing for the engineers

[thievingmagpi]

Novakaine, on 04 June 2019 - 09:32 AM, said:

Face it those speed demons are not going to wait for you.
Ask the assaults to stick together for mutual protection.
Then pick a point and go to it.
It's a rare to see a light trying to take on 4 Assaults by themselves.

YOU might not have the torso pitch to look down and pick of a harassing light... but guess who does. one of your Assault buddies


oh wait, they're scattered all over the map or hiding in a trench somewhere.

Oops!

[UnkerZ]

Khobai, on 04 June 2019 - 02:32 AM, said:

Since they made lights better brawlers than assaults

Wouldnt it make sense to make assaults faster than lights? make all assaults go 200kph

Well.. lets give that a shot... max speed 200kph.. standard acceleration... i can imagine the clusterfck coming soon

More accurately, assaults should be able to deal damage/stomp by simply running into a light/vice versa by way of the difference in mass. It makes no sense how a flea can sit around a KGC and not get whacked by his claws (which are as big as him). That would deal with the butthuggers.

Edited by UnkerZ, 04 June 2019 - 10:17 AM.

[UnkerZ]

thievingmagpi, on 04 June 2019 - 07:43 AM, said:

assaults should walk forward.

or, at the very least, not try to follow fast mechs.

fast mechs work by applying pressure to flanks and from angles where the enemy is not watching. there is no flank if everything is flank. assaults can't use their strength if they're constantly running.

Well... this is how I solve the problem.. crawl into a hole and aim all guns at the door. Worse case trade 1 for 1, best case, instagib for those curious fleas. Well.. thats what I do with my DW nowadays, no point to support the team or think strat since its gonna be potato mush anyway.

I just load up the alpha.. lurk around a nice corner and wait for some potato to run into my sights - at least id have fun ruining one guy.

[Willard Phule]

More accurately said might be "people that move at the speed of Assault mechs." There are plenty of heavies that plod along at the speed of Government.

Problem isn't the speed, it's the people you're playing with. I haven't quite figured out what the matchmaker separates people using, but it sure as hell isn't skill, experience or ability. I'm leaning toward paint job or title at this point (4 Knight Errants, 2 Survivors, the rest are filler).

On the slow end, you've got the guys that figured learning how to unzoom is too involved and that standing still is the only way to shoot. Doesn't matter what they're in. On the fast end, you've got the lemmings that seem drawn to every target that pops up in their field of vision and charge toward it hoping their team will be right behind them.

Add to that the elite lurmwarriors that chase locks, the Carlos Hathcock wannabes that go find someplace at extreme range to camp and all the assorted T5 habits, you've got QP. Always been that way.

[RJF Volkodav]

Quote

Something Needs To Be Done About Assaults Getting Left Behind

Prey for them. 95% its their fault

[PhoenixFire55]

RJF Volkodav, on 04 June 2019 - 10:45 AM, said:

Prey for them. 95% its their fault

Prey ... Not sure if a typo, or ... not.

[Feral Clown]

My suggestion is rotate between your fatty, practicing and trying various things to stay alive to get into the fight, and a streak Crow or Bushie, where you can run back and help out the poor folks in the assaults while getting yourself easy kills and the gratification of vengeance. We all need a little vengeance in our life.

I prefer lights and fast mediums and often I run back to get easy kills and keep my meat shields alive, but sometimes I spot that isolated lurmer and go in to take them out. It's just how the game plays.

Oh and assaults like quad lbx Faffy are an absolute nightmare for lights while being great dps and otherwise. Running these kinds of build will also probably help you figure out the best routes or positions to try, while anything with racs or lurms makes you lulsie food for even the worst light pilots.

[InspectorG]

PhoenixFire55, on 04 June 2019 - 04:34 AM, said:

Heh ... Somehow I've managed to fully skill up DireWolves and Annihilators and was never "left behind". Might have something to do with moving immidiately after you drop and not after taking a 30s nap on the spawn point. That and actually moving towards the middle of the map and not trying to do nascar in a 48kph mech.

SSSHHHHhhhhhh!!!!!!

It wont be a Kung Fu Secret Death Touch Technique if you tell everyone about it.

[Feral Clown]

PhoenixFire55, on 04 June 2019 - 04:34 AM, said:

Heh ... Somehow I've managed to fully skill up DireWolves and Annihilators and was never "left behind". Might have something to do with moving immidiately after you drop and not after taking a 30s nap on the spawn point. That and actually moving towards the middle of the map and not trying to do nascar in a 48kph mech.

I am mad that you are better than me.... REEEEEEE

[eishiba]

Why raise the speed of assaults? There has to be balance. If you raise the speed of assaults then the other classes need raised as well. If you increase armor then you would either need to increase the other class armor or lower the assaults damage output. This is just how assaults are.

[shaytalis]

Add a warning message for mech builds in the mech bay.

"WARNING! Your currently Loadout does not fit The Meta."

Would include any mech that goes < 68 kph.

Edited by shaytalis, 04 June 2019 - 09:28 PM.

[Sjorpha]

It's useless to tell people what not to do, because it doesn't give the team a clear alternative. Tell them what to do instead.

If you want to prevent your team from nascaring don't say "don't Nascar", that's vague and contains no useful information to act on and that's why doesn't work. If you're always saying "don't Nascar" and people still do it, that's not because they're stupid or didn't listen, it's because you didn't actually say anything useful.

Instead tell it what you want to do instead, so for example I recently had a match on caustic where I just said "form up around the assaults in delta 4". Make sure to not sound whiny or pleading, and don't rage if the team does something else. It works often enough to make a huge difference.

There are lots of other versions of the same fallacy, statements people think are "calling" when they're actually just useless complaints or noise. For example "they're behind us" is useless, behind who or what? What does they mean? How many? And what are you actually suggesting? A useful version might be "2 lights in c2 moving towards c1, don't chase" or something, actual information plus a suggested action. Other useless "calls" of the same kind is "they're all here" etc, but also complaints after the fact like "no one pushed" etc. Something being true doesn't necessarily mean it's useful information, just try to say things that are actually useful.