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Mw5 - No More Steam-Release?


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#41 dwwolf

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Posted 21 July 2019 - 03:25 AM

I have no idea of why it would cause distrust. Just the opposite.
Normally Steam takes a 30% cut from sales.
At the Epic store its 12%, and if you license UE4 ( like MW5 ) the 5% license fee is taken from the 12%.
PGI can changea 35% fee into a 12% fee per 3rd party transaction.

They'd be mad not too.
More funding = more coding.



#42 Thorqemada

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Posted 21 July 2019 - 07:14 AM

"Epic Fail" would become the main meme i guess...

#43 HammerMaster

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Posted 21 July 2019 - 07:38 AM

Curioser and curiouser.
I'm not a fan of steam. I'm not a fan of "exclusives" either.
I haven't used epic before but if it's a bloat like steam app and EXCLUDES customers.
I take issue with that.

#44 Jackal Noble

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Posted 21 July 2019 - 09:31 AM

View Postdwwolf, on 21 July 2019 - 03:25 AM, said:

I have no idea of why it would cause distrust. Just the opposite.
Normally Steam takes a 30% cut from sales.
At the Epic store its 12%, and if you license UE4 ( like MW5 ) the 5% license fee is taken from the 12%.
PGI can changea 35% fee into a 12% fee per 3rd party transaction.

They'd be mad not too.
More funding = more coding.



That’s peachy and all but then just say that if that is what is happening. Which hasn’t happened, which is causing distrust on the way this company considers its investors; which is to say they do not. The game is due to be out in a month and a half and we’ve had jack squat on the state of the game from about 7 months ago (boring *** one directional AMAs don’t count) . Please if you know, tell me one other game or developer that makes games, good games, in this manner? I’ll wait,
The difference is if they go Epic, that means excluding every other game platform service, thereby cutting the player view-ability of their game down dramatically, versus being able to launch on basically every other platform including, but not limited to Steam.
Finally the prize *****, modding. No one has answered my earlier question about whether EG store supports modding. If this game doesn’t support modding out of the gate, it’s dead.

#45 Nesutizale

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Posted 21 July 2019 - 02:51 PM

From what I heard from another developer who went to the Epic store is that Epic throws so much money at them that they could finance two games of the same caliber with the money without even selling a single copy.

That makes it hard to resist, espacialy the smaller the company or the more needy in money they are, cause even if you don't sell you still make a profit and tell me then when your boss would come around at work and tell you, you can have 4 years off from work with full pay that you wouldn't be very tempted.

Dosn't mean that I am fine with exclusivity, just that I understand a developer when that amount of money is involved.
It means savety for you, your crew and that you can either start on the next tile or improve the current project without the difficulte talks to investors or hopeing that you will sell well.

#46 Jackal Noble

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Posted 21 July 2019 - 03:03 PM

View PostNesutizale, on 21 July 2019 - 02:51 PM, said:

From what I heard from another developer who went to the Epic store is that Epic throws so much money at them that they could finance two games of the same caliber with the money without even selling a single copy.

That makes it hard to resist, espacialy the smaller the company or the more needy in money they are, cause even if you don't sell you still make a profit and tell me then when your boss would come around at work and tell you, you can have 4 years off from work with full pay that you wouldn't be very tempted.

Dosn't mean that I am fine with exclusivity, just that I understand a developer when that amount of money is involved.
It means savety for you, your crew and that you can either start on the next tile or improve the current project without the difficulte talks to investors or hopeing that you will sell well.

As a consumer, I care about the company as much as it cares about me.

#47 MeiSooHaityu

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 03:31 AM

View PostAppogee, on 20 July 2019 - 05:08 PM, said:

EDIT: Aaaaand it's been postponed. Apparently there was nothing new to be told Posted Image


Russ was out of town and thought he could participate remotely. I guess they were having issues making that happen, so they just decided to postpone the AMA to the 26th when he is back in the office.

https://mwomercs.com...s-ama-8-updated

#48 Ssamout

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 05:33 AM

View PostNesutizale, on 21 July 2019 - 02:51 PM, said:

From what I heard from another developer who went to the Epic store is that Epic throws so much money at them that they could finance two games of the same caliber with the money without even selling a single copy.


So imagine the situation where company executives realise that their game is not gonna live up to the expectations and is actually gonna be also late from set release dates, further tanking their income.
Then comes along handsome mr. Sweeney with few suitcases full of cash you can use to fill up the old fridge. Said executives would be kinda stupid not to accept free money right?

View PostMeiSooHaityu, on 22 July 2019 - 03:31 AM, said:

Russ was out of town and thought he could participate remotely. I guess they were having issues making that happen, so they just decided to postpone the AMA to the 26th when he is back in the office.

Oh you sweet summer child.

;P

#49 MeiSooHaityu

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 05:44 AM

View PostSsamout, on 22 July 2019 - 05:33 AM, said:

Oh you sweet summer child.

;P


Lol. Well, I have no evidence to believe otherwise so I am going to take their word at face value. It may be a bit naive, however I can't always be that 'Glass Half Empty' kind of guy. There is enough of those here to more than make up for my disposition ;).

#50 AEgg

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 05:47 AM

View PostSjorpha, on 20 July 2019 - 03:20 PM, said:

I feel like there is a lot of unwarranted hate for Epic. Yes their client kinda sucks still, but as far as buying exclusives they are trying to break what is almost a monopoly, and that's not gonna happen without exclusive big titles.

And the truth is that Valve is abusing their dominant position to screw over developers, the cut they charge is absurdly high and wouldn't stand to compete on any healthy market.


The problem is that they're going about it the wrong way.

Having multiple clients is dumb. End of story.

The only way multiple clients can work is if you buy a game once and your key is good for Epic, Steam, GoG, Battle.net, whatever. All of them.

Then, users can compete based on their features, and nobody's stuck managing multiple libraries. Someone is going to figure this out eventually. It might even be a third party that just uses APIs from all of the major stores and crams them together into a single client.

#51 Ssamout

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 05:51 AM

View PostMeiSooHaityu, on 22 July 2019 - 05:44 AM, said:


Lol. Well, I have no evidence to believe otherwise so I am going to take their word at face value. It may be a bit naive, however I can't always be that 'Glass Half Empty' kind of guy. There is enough of those here to more than make up for my disposition Posted Image.

AYe, I'm usually also the half full kinda guy. Sometimes you just gotta stir the pot or it's gonna burn. But I also like chillies so its gonna burn anyway.. Posted Image

#52 RickySpanish

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 06:29 AM

Valve are money grabbing bar stewards who exploited the good will of the community to create their hat selling walled garden from which their entire corporation grabs its monthly retirement funds from. I have no love for them, or for the Epic store. All of these distribution platforms can ********** for all I care.

What I do care about is that MW5 remains moddable. Whatever that means nowadays.

#53 MeiSooHaityu

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 07:28 AM

I just don't trust Epic with my info or my game library more than anything else. I mean...
  • Sure they poach games that promised customers/backers Steam keys (one in which wouldn't refund customers).
  • Sure they stated that the consumer doesn't matter when it comes to online stores
  • Sure they run sales without publisher's knowledge or permission (potentially devaluing their games in their eyes)
  • Sure they have a BARELY running store with the most basic things like a 'Shopping Kart' missing.
  • Sure they have a year long roadmap to implement bare bone features
  • Sure they lock down accounts who purchase multiple games because they think it's fraud when really it is because they have NO SHOPPING KART and customers have no other option. lol
  • Sure they have terrible customer service (Gets an 'F' rating from Better Business Bureau)
  • Sure they "lost" customer's games in their library because they didn't log them correctly (took a SidAlpha video to get them to correct it).
After all that, it just comes down to this. If they can't run a store. They can't keep track of games, they can't offer decent customer service, they can't even let you purchase games like every other online store on the planet...What sort of crapshow is their back end? How do I know that my account won't get stolen on their end, that they have the most basic of encryption. How do I even trust that, if my account got hijacked, their customer service would even be competent enough to help me get it back? Heck, am I going to install Epic on a new PC only to have games disappear and have them deny I ever owned them?

Epic needed about another year before they entered the market. Sure they would still be anti-consumer jerks in their acquisitions, but at the very least, they could have a store that at the least...functioned and therefore one I could have at least a false sense of confidence in.

Valve hasn't been great either, but at least I know what to expect with them and I have confidence in their storefront (as much as one can with an online store). Epic is just an undercooked, anti consumer mess, and at the end of the day, I just don't trust them.

#54 VonBruinwald

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 08:39 AM

View PostMeiSooHaityu, on 22 July 2019 - 07:28 AM, said:

Epic needed about another year before they entered the market. Sure they would still be anti-consumer jerks in their acquisitions, but at the very least, they could have a store that at the least...functioned and therefore one I could have at least a false sense of confidence in.

Valve hasn't been great either, but at least I know what to expect with them and I have confidence in their storefront (as much as one can with an online store). Epic is just an undercooked, anti consumer mess, and at the end of the day, I just don't trust them.


Epic are weak on the store front. But if you remember back, valve went through the same issues. It simply a case of maturity. Of course things will be easier with steam but if you're actually considering things as a consumer then you need to support Epic as they grow. Competition is always better for the consumer.

#55 MeiSooHaityu

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 08:49 AM

View PostVonBruinwald, on 22 July 2019 - 08:39 AM, said:


Epic are weak on the store front. But if you remember back, valve went through the same issues. It simply a case of maturity. Of course things will be easier with steam but if you're actually considering things as a consumer then you need to support Epic as they grow. Competition is always better for the consumer.


One thing to keep in mind is that Steam (a long with countless other online store fronts) have helped develope and established the modern requirements for what a store front should be and how it should operate. When Valve was first making Steam, they (a long with other online market places) were blazing the trail so to speak. They were the ones figuring out what needed to be done. Now new stores coming out take what early online store fronts found out, and implement them from the start. There really is no excuse for a modern storefront, from a company with such deep pockets, to not have a properly functioning store.

Now that these features and requirements are commonplace, there really is no excuse for a store to go live without it. Epic has a TON of money and resources that they could put into a well developed store front. They own the Unreal Engine and have the wildly successful Fortnite. Again, there is no excuse for this.

This shows a certain level of contempt for the consumer. Essentially...we don't care what you think of the store, you will come just for the exclusives we acquire.

I don't feel I need to support this. I don't feel that they are ready to be a real competitor in the marketplace. When they do, I re-evaluate my stance, but as of now, they aren't getting my support. That's just my feeling on it.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 22 July 2019 - 08:50 AM.


#56 Tordin

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 09:21 AM

Cant help it but Im worried..

Heres the deal PGI...

If you under the table deal with Epic you get.

1: Exclsuivity! I dont hear any fanfares... How can that be?

2: Larger sum of money at least temporarily, but my bet only if you microstransaction the HELL outta MW5 and future titles you shamelessly have the right to.

NOW. What you WILL LOSE!

1: Tons of good will into the unforseeable future from Battletech fans, including MWO, MW, well anyone not blissfully accepting epics cancer!

2: Long term profit. Yeah, yeah. Steam takes huger cuts, they have their flaws and sure some less profit in the beginning.
BUT: Trust is EXTREMELY valuable, you have a rough statistic over how many plays MWO and a fair share of us have pre - ordered MW5 Mercs. Overall tons more income and JUST from trust alone its really rewarding.

F example: We DONT want our trusted pre order rug dragged out from under our feet!
By " oh apologies, we UMM got a better deal form Epic, so eh you can refund or wait a year for Steam release, or NOT! "

Dont be like mr Gollop, the creator of XCOM, admitting and actually went to EPIC to make Phoenix Point exclusive, good will SUICIDE!
I get a frigging bad taste by playing any xcom game now.. Why? BETRAYAL OF FANS who have willingly supported a kickstarter with promise it will be on Steam ( gog too I remember?) And it not only THAT game. Metro Exodus, Outer Worlds ( heh, hopefully saved by Microsoft, wont buy it on PC ePIC, but loophole is buying it on Xbox)

I dont want the betrayed, getting bad taste feeling from you either PGI.

We fans are rash, fierce, energetic and stubborn, but that because we CARE and want you to succeed! The franchise to succed! Sounds a bit like parenting dosent it? Shouldnt be neccessary but here we are..

Its for the better good I think that M$ RIP the liscense from you if you cant hold promises, if the MW liscense gets into more trustful hands that is. Imagine that, CD Projekt RED making Mech Warrior games *gasp* Wouldnt mind HBS and Paradox to make em either, imagine that..

NOW. I hope to you that the AMA delay is about what is said, I hope NOT it have been a business trip to slimy Epic undertablers, I hope the can play the MW5 beta soon to fine tune it with constructive feedback for launch in September on TIME. I hope there wil lbe details about modding too.


Believe it or not but our last fortress against PGI getting seducted to "epic" is that Microsft RIPp the battletech lisence carpet from under them if they do. Because SOMEONE need to protect themself from sheer stupidity and moneymongering.

Yes I know cash flow is important but it should be desperate or ruthless agains the customers.
Of Valve, Bethesda, Ubisoft, Activision, EA, Epic. Microsoft are the least.. hmm evil and dont mind having their games spread on as many platforms and game stores as possible. Sure, they SHOULD have done more to make something out of say their lisence regarding Battletech, like Mech Assault 3 and heck even a possible console ports, remasters and such for the older MW games at least.

And last I hope you dont take OUR trust for granted PGI, because theres ENOUGH corruption and BS in this industry that is. Causing states to regulate sleazy publisher greedheads because the gaming industry for the most part cant fathom to regulate itself. Sad really.

Hope you succeed to prove us wrong PGI, I really do! Because speculations and conspiracys is poison that also needs to be cleared up on.

Edited by Tordin, 22 July 2019 - 09:23 AM.


#57 MadcatX

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 09:54 AM

View PostJackal Noble, on 21 July 2019 - 09:31 AM, said:

The difference is if they go Epic, that means excluding every other game platform service, thereby cutting the player view-ability of their game down dramatically, versus being able to launch on basically every other platform including, but not limited to Steam.


I'm going to have to disagree due to some very specific things occurring right now. For starters, at least in Steam's case, discover-ability is a joke. MW5 would show up on the store front for maybe a week but then dissapear into the ether of a vast sea of games of much lesser quality since Steam has no quality control whatsoever.

Right now, everyone who's in the gaming news biz (gaming news websites, youtube "influencers" like Sid Alpha for example, etc), are keeping close tabs and reporting on nearly everything related to the Epic Store and I suspect that would continue to be the case for several more months. I think if they'd go with Epic, they'd receive not only a whole lot of free advertising (good or bad, depending on if there's any backer/pre-order debacle that other games on the store have had and especially with the modding scene). And once what I assume would be a timed exclusivity deal expired, it would get another boost of discoverability as it hit all the other platforms.


View PostMeiSooHaityu, on 22 July 2019 - 08:49 AM, said:

This shows a certain level of contempt for the consumer. Essentially...we don't care what you think of the store, you will come just for the exclusives we acquire.

I don't feel I need to support this.


I agree with you, I think it's obviously a bad mindset, but the gaming community has made the statement "we don't care what you think of {insert objectiong here}, we know you'll still get the game" fairly accurate for the past decade. We, and by we I mean the nearly the entirety of the gaming community, has allowed horrible anti-consumer practices to become normalized because they'll still get the game, with the exception of refunds for No Man's Sky at launch, Anthem, Fallout 76 (I think). Getting folks to pre-order digital games with incentives of course which more and more often come out as glitchy messes that it makes playing it on day 1 a moot point until the first patch comes out. Although my personal favorite example of "we don't care what you think..." is how old-school "Game in Beta" turned into "Early Access", from "We'll let you play this game before launch in exchange for you being a beta tester" to "Give us money to be able to play the game before it releases... and also be our free beta testers in the process", which gets worse if the early access experience and full release experience end up being very different, an experience that many people in the MWO community has seen first hand.

#58 Jackal Noble

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 10:23 AM

View PostMadcatX, on 22 July 2019 - 09:54 AM, said:


I'm going to have to disagree due to some very specific things occurring right now. For starters, at least in Steam's case, discover-ability is a joke. MW5 would show up on the store front for maybe a week but then dissapear into the ether of a vast sea of games of much lesser quality since Steam has no quality control whatsoever.

Right now, everyone who's in the gaming news biz (gaming news websites, youtube "influencers" like Sid Alpha for example, etc), are keeping close tabs and reporting on nearly everything related to the Epic Store and I suspect that would continue to be the case for several more months. I think if they'd go with Epic, they'd receive not only a whole lot of free advertising (good or bad, depending on if there's any backer/pre-order debacle that other games on the store have had and especially with the modding scene). And once what I assume would be a timed exclusivity deal expired, it would get another boost of discoverability as it hit all the other platforms.


My bad, I meant accessibility - by limiting access they will shoot themselves in the foot. And honestly, the view ability on Steam is pretty functional when you consider how the vast troves of indie **** it has. Let’s say Joe Consumer wants to play a mech game? Just type mech and it will bring up every single related game tagged with ‘mech’
Now, regarding the preorders (mine included) and if they (PGI) did transit over to Epic and in turn **** over the backers that would be a prime set up for a lawsuit.
Back to Epic Gamestore...
40% owned by Chinese cutthroat Tencent
Has no modding support- absolutely zero
https://cdn.mos.cms....gc4M-650-80.png


#59 PhoenixFire55

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 11:44 AM

View PostMeiSooHaityu, on 22 July 2019 - 05:44 AM, said:

Lol. Well, I have no evidence to believe otherwise so I am going to take their word at face value.

And you are a founder ... Wow dude. Just wow.

#60 MeiSooHaityu

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 11:54 AM

View PostPhoenixFire55, on 22 July 2019 - 11:44 AM, said:

And you are a founder ... Wow dude. Just wow.


I've dropped the salt off a long time ago. There is only so long I can stay upset before the indifference sets in (at least about MWO anyway) Posted Image.

Hey, PGI's statement on it might be true, or it might not be. I have no proof that it isn't, so if someone inquires about the AMA, I'll link them to it and paraphrase their statement. If it isn't true, so be it. I'm just not going to automatically assume everything is untrue. That is a bit more cynical and salty than I care to be. Posted Image

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 22 July 2019 - 12:05 PM.






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