1380 replies to this topic

[Culnan]

Tiantara, on 29 July 2019 - 11:22 AM, said:

- There need to be specific. All comments above not about the game which quality as finished product still unknown. It's about changes in providing pre-orders version, which was forced by financial obstacles and can greatly help company to put more buck in developing that by choosing old patch to move. As fans we can provide critics to product. And we did when some changes in MWO was unbearable. Right now we kick game which not come to live... emm what? How we help game become better by saying something "Steam or better no one get game at all". Really...
I prefer game based on MechWarrior with acceptable quality than having no game at all. Because in second variant - we have nothing to discuss and improve by commenting.
So yes... we, as fans, must be critical to product, but not to decision which was made to take financial burden from company shoulders. I think it's a really big difference here. Let them make and publish game, and than say "meh" or "wow".

That's the thing isn't it? It's not just about the different launcher (Epic's issues are far more systemic than that). For some it's about EGS being a blight on the gaming landscape, for others it's the lies and shady practices PGI have demonstrated over this switch. The platform is part of the product, especially when it's part of an exclusivity deal.

Also, didn't Bullock claim in one of the AMAs the decision wasn't about the money, so are you saying he was lying when you claim the move to EGS was "forced by financial obstacles"? If so, why do you trust him about anything to do with the game?

Bullock is a liar, EGS is terrible. That's the crux of so much of this. Neither PGI or Epic have demonstrated behaviour that justifies good faith or defence from consumers. And tbh it's baffling to me that people will.

[Uprising2123]

RIp sweet prince.

[Tiantara]

Grayson Sortek, on 29 July 2019 - 11:35 AM, said:

I tell you what. I can't wait to review it!

...On Steam, GoG, or any other platform that isn't EGS, because I don't want to support those corporate decisions. Even then I'm not going to pay full price for a game that is over a year old at that point and give them another launch sale. The only way companies pay attention is when you vote with your wallet, which is exactly what a lot of us are doing.

You know as well as I do that there are a lot of features and functionality that they are relying on Epic to develop right? Example: Epic might not have the same community/friends interactions ANY other launcher has (Ubi, GoG, Steam, etc.) and thus we might have to connect (as Russ suggested) the old school way with direct IP! Oh except that Russ said that they weren't looking at adding that component into the game for you to access... you would have to modify the files yourself; brilliant.

Russ also said that you can download it from EGS, then uninstall EGS and launch MW5 right from the .exe! Except that with Subnautica they removed the ability to do that because it's a damn DRM platform. So... That was a lie as well. It looks like the game is going to be horribly mutilated and chopped down for the sake of launching on EGS.

So yea, even without going into the myriad of issues that the EGS has, and only focusing on MW5, it looks like we are pretty boned. Why would I, or any of the rest of us who have been playing BT and MW games since the late 80s/early 90s stick with this? Why would we when we can explore alternatives?

I for one will be making first impression videos of Vox Machinae and MechWarrior Living Legends and drawing direct comparisons to my experiences in MWO. As for MW5; like I said, I can't wait to review it when it comes out on other platforms. If it doesn't make it that far, then I'll be happy to review whatever is produced by the next holder of the IP.

- I prefer PGI launcher above Steam, GoG and EGS. But with no alternative - why not. For all who so afraid of data leaks - put cheapest HDD in your PC, and create separate system for games only. So, you support Steam which use gamedevelopers as source for own popularity, take money and sometimes do nothing to check quality of game nor providing promoting for good enough? Honestly - we moving to multilaunchers from any studio who have own gameengine, and launchers from game engines owners (who provide not only quality check but also promoting games as part of their own engine).

- I also know that all other platforms at their beginning also was bad. EGS need time as well as attention. So, forcing great games to publishing on their platform also boost changes and improvements. Just look at planned changes in EGS for future 3-4 month. Things changes... more games, more motivation to do it.

- In that case I think more possible short connection to verification game and than closing session for offline playing. Anyway that still better than was in Windows Live store - where you buy DVD with game, make account and because of lag got ban after 3 attempts to connect. And your DVD become x-mas tree toy. So - worse thing would happens it's a short session of connection to server, saving in cloud your progress and fulltime internet connection. Not-good, but...

- You mean - when we got alternatives? Do you see any as potential as we have now? Not just random toylike mech, but Mech - with weight and slow stomping on battleground? I don't see either. So, yeah, I prefer make comments and leave suggestion to one or another feature, honestly test on PTS (even in event days, when all other prefer get c-bills instead of test and make right choice).

- Ok... I'll with pleasure will be viewer of your honest videos.

[Uncleclint]

PGI, you Bullocksd it... again

Waiting for a steam release then. Glad i´m not one of the pre-orderers!

Edited by Uncleclint, 29 July 2019 - 12:18 PM.

[Grayson Sortek]

Tiantara, on 29 July 2019 - 12:10 PM, said:

- Ok... I'll with pleasure will be viewer of your honest videos.

Make sure to like and subscribe
https://www.youtube....er/ostegonation

[Tiantara]

Culnan, on 29 July 2019 - 11:44 AM, said:

That's the thing isn't it? It's not just about the different launcher (Epic's issues are far more systemic than that). For some it's about EGS being a blight on the gaming landscape, for others it's the lies and shady practices PGI have demonstrated over this switch. The platform is part of the product, especially when it's part of an exclusivity deal.

Also, didn't Bullock claim in one of the AMAs the decision wasn't about the money, so are you saying he was lying when you claim the move to EGS was "forced by financial obstacles"? If so, why do you trust him about anything to do with the game?

Bullock is a liar, EGS is terrible. That's the crux of so much of this. Neither PGI or Epic have demonstrated behaviour that justifies good faith or defence from consumers. And tbh it's baffling to me that people will.

- Heh, with such attention everyone who have something against EPG should delete and never install any game based on UE. Oh wait... that nearly every second AAA game we have. There was time when EG give everyone possibility to make game on their engine. For free, if developers won't go to commercial use and give game for free after finishing it. Really cheap was percent for all who develop and try to sell game. years go and EG come to decision to promote every game with their own engine under own store. With better percent for developers, which before pay huge percent to publish on others platforms or can't provide own. That was good move - because Eg can provide not only quality check, but also some tech support for games. In same time all good AAA game also put engine higher above any others.

- Yeap he claim. I don't really think that here was a lie. No one say that company have hard times openly. That straight road to loose investors and positions. In same time not a single company go away from opportunity pay less for something they use in developing. You also buy phone with cheaper price even if that mean using provider whole 2 year by contract, don't you? Especially if you have no spare money to go and by something with no restrictions at all. Same here. When PGI (probably!) have not sure about future publishing and have no confirmation about percent - they started pre-orders to make enough money to finish game. When they got more comfort deal with less cost of using engine, support and so on, publishing only in EGS seems less evil, than financial risk.
So we have that situation live we or not. But still - PGI at least do... when others cant provide even promo art.

Grayson Sortek, on 29 July 2019 - 12:27 PM, said:

Make sure to like and subscribe
https://www.youtube....er/ostegonation

- Nice!! I'll wait.

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

Tiantara, on 29 July 2019 - 08:24 AM, said:

- Well... what about thinking aside EGS and all that and imagine that scenario - MW5 are good. Good not only because of MECH in it and less alternatives based on mech also. Good because of pretty optimized engine which use more GPU, not CPU like now. More advanced, more flexible, better for additional updates, innovation and changes. All that need finances to do. Time, finances and stabile consolidation with owners of game engine as well. What in the future? Possible multiplayer. Porting MWO to MW5 engine with all possibilities which it gives. Not only advanced damage calculation and nice gfx. But also better animation, possibility to change UI and make better control. Chance to add all changes which everyone wait in MWO after all that was tested, polished and improved in MW5.
Not a fresh blood like bringing players to MWO, but making new base for MWO to bring back all who still love it and wait for changes for years.
It's really easy say "meh" and go away. But really strange to hear it from those who for decades love battletech and MechWarrior. Really? Love game with nearly no alternatives just when changes come say "no" and go away? Do you really love MW as mach as you say?
When MWO come - that was happiest day ever since MW3. Even when it was really hardcore to play and have less mech. I really believe that with MW5 we soon get new MWO on same engine and get everything what we dream about like:
1 - stories in faction play with battle scenario, capturing or destroying key structures to gain access to defense weapon.
2 - really smart AI with some small mech or vehicles on both side, maybe with mobile repair bay in same faction play.
3 - more variables of tactics, where each mech can play own role (and small mech gain xp from scouting and info more than from damaging big-daddies).
And so on what you can imagine remembering MC and MW3.

i will disregard your whole post except 'imagine'

[Mawai]

Culnan, on 29 July 2019 - 11:44 AM, said:

That's the thing isn't it? It's not just about the different launcher (Epic's issues are far more systemic than that). For some it's about EGS being a blight on the gaming landscape, for others it's the lies and shady practices PGI have demonstrated over this switch. The platform is part of the product, especially when it's part of an exclusivity deal.

Also, didn't Bullock claim in one of the AMAs the decision wasn't about the money, so are you saying he was lying when you claim the move to EGS was "forced by financial obstacles"? If so, why do you trust him about anything to do with the game?

Bullock is a liar, EGS is terrible. That's the crux of so much of this. Neither PGI or Epic have demonstrated behaviour that justifies good faith or defence from consumers. And tbh it's baffling to me that people will.

I won't call anyone a liar without more information.

However, the most reasonable explanation for going with an Epic exclusive is money. There isn't any other reason that seems remotely likely. Epic apparently charges the developer a smaller fraction of sales than other platforms and Epic likely paid up front to obtain another exclusive game that had a certain level of documented pre-sales. That means more users on their platform, more eyes on their games list, better concurrent user numbers, greater acceptance and the possibility of sales of unrelated titles.

From a corporate point of view, I would think PGI would find it hard to resist extra guaranteed revenues especially when we don't know how well or poorly the pre-sales phase has gone. Given that PGI already has both stand alone distribution and Steam distribution for MWO which would likely make either of these easy to implement or continue to support with MW5, and considering how generally villified EGS appears to be ... I think money would seem to be the most likely explanation.

Edited by Mawai, 29 July 2019 - 12:48 PM.

[wolf]

There are much more Mech Games:
https://www.gamestar...ltig,98567.html

[Alienized]

PGI has no imagination. otherwise this game would have so much more. a useful Repair & rearm coupled with FW planets that goes into group/solo queue for example. different tech costs for balance and not this quirkening stuff.

Just one thing that quickly comes to my mind if PGI would have ever had a proper plan in place or the IMAGINATION for something.

[Culnan]

Mawai, on 29 July 2019 - 12:48 PM, said:

I won't call anyone a liar without more information.

However, the most reasonable explanation for going with an Epic exclusive is money. There isn't any other reason that seems remotely likely. Epic apparently charges the developer a smaller fraction of sales than other platforms and Epic likely paid up front to obtain another exclusive game that had a certain level of documented pre-sales. That means more users on their platform, more eyes on their games list, better concurrent user numbers, greater acceptance and the possibility of sales of unrelated titles.

From a corporate point of view, I would think PGI would find it hard to resist extra guaranteed revenues especially when we don't know how well or poorly the pre-sales phase has gone. Given that PGI already has both stand alone distribution and Steam distribution for MWO which would likely make either of these easy to implement or continue to support with MW5, and considering how generally villified EGS appears to be ... I think money would seem to be the most likely explanation.

I agree, money is most likely the reason, but Bullock has denied PGI were/are in a a bad financial situation (which is what I was referring to, Tiantara's position of 'PGI's hand was forced because of their dire financial siutation' is directly contradicted by Bullock's recent comments). He's also claimed it's more about the 'visibility' than money on any level.

However, that isn't the worst of the lies in all this. That would be the repeated denials of Epic exclusivity after we now know the deal was signed back in April, plus of course the whole 'selling pre-orders with the promise of Steam keys when they knew they were going Epic Exlcusive' thing.

[Tiantara]

Alienized, on 29 July 2019 - 12:52 PM, said:

PGI has no imagination. otherwise this game would have so much more. a useful Repair & rearm coupled with FW planets that goes into group/solo queue for example. different tech costs for balance and not this quirkening stuff.

Just one thing that quickly comes to my mind if PGI would have ever had a proper plan in place or the IMAGINATION for something.

- You hardly forgot about Engine Restriction and nearly impossibility to bring into it huge changes like whole new mechanic or advanced AI. That why MW5 was developed in a first place.

[Jonnara]

No point in beating a dead horse, I guess I am not playing mw5.
I even bought 2 extra monitors and upgraded my graphics card to make a battle station setup.

[Eurystheus]

The only games I play are Call of Duty MW3 and MWO. Until now, I thought of Steam as just a nuisance I had to put up with in order to play games I like. I had no idea Steam had such a loyal fan following. I'm a bit puzzled as to why so many prioritize the game launcher over the games they play. MW5 is what I care about. Not Steam, which appears to be loaded with features I never use, or Epic. I'd be happy if I could order MW5 in a box and install it from a DVD and do without a game launcher altogether.

[Tiantara]

Eurystheus, on 29 July 2019 - 01:54 PM, said:

The only games I play are Call of Duty MW3 and MWO. Until now, I thought of Steam as just a nuisance I had to put up with in order to play games I like. I had no idea Steam had such a loyal fan following. I'm a bit puzzled as to why so many prioritize the game launcher over the games they play. MW5 is what I care about. Not Steam, which appears to be loaded with features I never use, or Epic. I'd be happy if I could order MW5 in a box and install it from a DVD and do without a game launcher altogether.

- Or, at least - through PGI launcher... as third button under PTS MWO.

[Dee Eight]

Paladin IIC, on 28 July 2019 - 12:23 PM, said:

Dee, no one gives a damn about stats on the Jarl's list in a free to play game with a population barely above 600. Most of the people on the top of that list have over 5k games and way too much free time on their hands, unlike most normal functioning members of society. Most normal people, I guess you'd call us casuals, don't have the free time to sit in front of a PC for 8 hours or more a day and hone our skills like we did in high school.

Population barely above 600 ? Do you tell that lie to yourself in the mirror over and over to convince yourself its true, before telling others ?

[X Player]

Well, good thing I forgot about the preorder and didn't do it.

[Dee Eight]

Stormtempter, on 28 July 2019 - 12:45 PM, said:

@Dee Eight.

I'm a founder. I've invested almost 2,000 dollars in MWO. I've played a decent number of games in my time - 4.5k last I checked, and by your metric of Jarl, being in the top 6% indicates I am not a 'potato'. I also backed MW5 at the Ultimate Community level, and I immediately refunded when this was announced. I was promised a steam key - if I wished, and while they were making that promise, they were secretly working to get that exclusivity deal signed.

I'm not a founder but I'm significantly in excess of $2000 spent on MWO and I'm also the ultimate pack level pre-order for MW5.

Quote

If it was about the revenue split, they could adjust the price up for other platforms, down for EGS, or both, so they could keep the same net sales across all platforms and let the market sort it out. If it was about the spotlight, exclusivity is poison, they are pigeonholing themselves to a single platform that has a very specific demographic currently, rather than diversify and take ALL the spotlights for however long they can on all the platforms possible. If it was about features and a better experience for the fans and consumers, they wouldn't ink an exclusivity deal with the platform that has the LEAST features and worst experience for consumers amongst them all.

Except Epic isn't a specific demographic as people keep denigrated them to having. Its not just merely the fortnite kiddies. I personally know real professional gamers and while all agree Epic's launcher could be better, they don't have a problem with using the epic game store for the games they're playing for their audiences, and none of them are even doing Fortnite. That MW5 is being delivered via the Epic store doesn't magically make it worse as to how the game is actually going to be than if was delivered via the Steam store or GoG. Cyberpunk 2077 is delivering on all three simultaneously as well being sold through Amazon. Division 2 has been out for months and its a very successful game and it hasn't been hurt by being on Epic.

[Earl Whitehaven]

Eurystheus, on 29 July 2019 - 01:54 PM, said:

The only games I play are Call of Duty MW3 and MWO. Until now, I thought of Steam as just a nuisance I had to put up with in order to play games I like. I had no idea Steam had such a loyal fan following. I'm a bit puzzled as to why so many prioritize the game launcher over the games they play. MW5 is what I care about. Not Steam, which appears to be loaded with features I never use, or Epic. I'd be happy if I could order MW5 in a box and install it from a DVD and do without a game launcher altogether.

For a lot of people it's not that it has to be on steam but rather they don't want it on epic. Personally it's being lied to countless times that broke the camel's back. I'd have been fine if it had been anything but epic. Honestly if they had not lied I wouldn't be up in arms about it. I auto pass on epic but that is a personal bias and choice and if it had always been epic I would have just moved on. The bait and switch awakened the anger. Hell, for 3 days by Russ's own admission on the last AMA the had the deal signed with epic and sold steam pre orders. That is the standard PGI style move that has me hoping they mess this up enough to knock their company out.

[Timberjac]

If the extra money you earn, it means that the MWO will be more active time or even, that there is a possibility that it will be improved, I will not care about the change of supplier.

Otherwise, I do not understand why they will limit the potential users who will have access to the MW5 (Steam, will be more expensive, much more expensive for the developer, but guarantees access to millions of potential buyers that no other platform has... and even these from EPIC, who didn't know them until now, even if they have as it seems, a shop in my country, Spain).

I hope the MW5 is spectacularly good and people are willing to leave with some who don't know who they've tied with (a local saying, to say a few complete strangers).

On the delay... I hope there will be no more, because at this rate, I'll see a Warhammer walking in our cities first than on the MW5