1380 replies to this topic

[T0RC4ED]

MWO was in Beta for nearly a year, based on that track record, Mechwarrior 5 will be full release when the EPIC fail exclusive ends =)

[ingramli]

PGI classify all topics about MW5 rant as OFF-TOPIC, I guess this is the only area we can express our frustration with someone reading.....

[Red Potato Standing By]

Zaptiah, on 30 July 2019 - 02:58 PM, said:

I think the biggest problem that everyone is having is that we were rather blatantly lied to. Personally I had never heard of Epic until this so I don't really care about that part. Having looked into I can see they have had a really rough start so that is a thing to consider. What is really burning myself and I would bet a bunch of folks is the way PGI did this. They knew they were switching platforms but still sold the Steam keys and original launch plans. Russ even clearly stated that even after the ink was on the paper they continued selling with a few days (3 i think) of overlap. This is clearly an unethical way to treat customers but more importantly it is glaringly unlawful. I think that is why PGI has been so fast to jump on the refund wagon .... in a hopes to avoid litigation or worse a criminal investigation by the DOJ. This is the first time I have ever pre-ordered a game and generally I wouldn't but I was REALLY excited to see a MW5 title. Obviously this is leaving a very sour taste and left me like so many torn. PGI has very blatantly violated several countries consumer protection laws and have been shockingly cavalier about it. What it boils down to is it worth pursuing legally? for most of us no, I certainly don't have pockets deep enough to hire an attorney does anyone else? That is what it would take. Otherwise I like many have to decide if I take the refund or not. PGI if your listen or reading this ( I doubt it to be frank) you are treating your customers in an incredibly shabby fashion. Maybe the Epic money is worth it in the short term. Maybe you really don't care like so many have expressed. Maybe it's a combination of the two, I don't know. What I do know is you have burn any good will this community had left for you. I now am left with deciding if I will refund or not, but I can guarantee that I will never buy from you again. In my opinion this has been a criminal action that this company has engaged in and I can not support you again in the future. you sold us a product you knowingly had no intention of delivering. You have point blank admitted this and are on the record to this fact. this is the very definition of Bait and Switch here in the USA. And while I would like to say shame on you the fact is you have a reputation for this type of behavior. The fact is shame on us for believing PGI would deliver on anything promised.

What laws did they exactly break? Even when it said it was going to be released on steam nothing said it was guaranteed, they are offering refunds on top of being able to keep all the rewards, without making anyone fight for it( because really they are still providing the game.which in all reality is what you bought).

[Zaptiah]

Red Potato Standing By, on 30 July 2019 - 04:41 PM, said:

What laws did they exactly break? Even when it said it was going to be released on steam nothing said it was guaranteed, they are offering refunds on top of being able to keep all the rewards, without making anyone fight for it( because really they are still providing the game.which in all reality is what you bought).

Specifically they have violated the US "Bait and Switch" law.

1) PGI specifically advertised a product on a platform (Steam Key) with no intention of honoring or delivering said product.

2) They are publicly on the record for deceiving and defrauding the public in falsely advertising this with no intention of delivering the product. Literally the legal definition of "bait and switch" under US law.

3) they are also on public record for continuing sales under false pretense of a steam key when the Epic deal had in fact been signed (the overlap period). Also literally the definition of false advertising and "bait and switch" under US law.


I know feelings are rather high on this but the facts are the facts regardless of what you believe. PGI offering refunds does not absolve them of what under US law is almost a text book case of false advertising and Bait & Switch practices.

[Prototelis]

That isn't what a bait and switch is.

Even if it was; they're giving refunds to people that want them.

[Znozoic]

1000

YES! I MADE IT! the number 1000 is mineeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Edited by Znozoic, 30 July 2019 - 06:05 PM.

[Axys Rageborn]

I have received my refund and I have put that towards the Clan invasion kickstarter instead. The reason as to why I did this is due to the fact that I would like to have a steam key as opposed to using epic. I have no problem with using different launchers however EGS is not where all my games are and I would prefer to have steam instead. (400+ games)

I have also stopped playing MWO recently too not because of this but because of the game becoming stale due to lack of changes and players.

Its a shame as MWO is fun and I reckon MW5 will be ok as well but I can wait a year to see how it goes.

[Bloody]

Xsolla confirmed refund processed.

Legendary Founder here. For those who are foolishly suggesting that we, the refund requestors are somehow to blame for the possible failure of the game and future of Mechwarrior , you are incredibly stupid. To put your faith in Bullocks and co , that after all these years, with their minimum good enough gameplay to ship philosophy, their endless pushbacks and delivery failures, the constant lies etc , that they will MAGICALLY pull something good out of their arse ?

do you want to buy a Mech? i have a mech to sell you..

[Agent of Change]

Axys Rageborn, on 30 July 2019 - 06:18 PM, said:

I have received my refund and I have put that towards the Clan invasion kickstarter instead. The reason as to why I did this is due to the fact that I would like to have a steam key as opposed to using epic. I have no problem with using different launchers however EGS is not where all my games are and I would prefer to have steam instead. (400+ games)

I have also stopped playing MWO recently too not because of this but because of the game becoming stale due to lack of changes and players.

Its a shame as MWO is fun and I reckon MW5 will be ok as well but I can wait a year to see how it goes.

I did the same thing, I even dumped more money into that project than I spent on MW5 because well... they have a track record of delivering what they say they will.

[Akillius]

Prototelis, on 30 July 2019 - 05:13 PM, said:

That isn't what a bait and switch is.

Even if it was; they're giving refunds to people that want them.

Under Canadian Law you would be correct it isn't bait and switch, or more precisely a lawsuit under that would likely not be accepted by a court to even proceed beyond preliminary reading to the court.
Because "Bait and Switch" under Section 74.04 Competition Act usually deals with physical goods and would be a civil suit (you don't get any money or compensation, the gov't does.)
https://www.competit.../eng/00522.html

Anyways under the Canadian Criminal Code you'd want to file a civil lawsuit (again no money to you) under is
"False or misleading representations" and here's an small excerpt:
"Subsection 52(4) directs that the general impression conveyed by a representation, as well as its literal meaning, be taken into account when determining whether or not the representation is false or misleading in a material respect."
Note: a companies first offense costs $10 million dollars, and increases by $15 million for basically each additional guilty order(count) thereafter.

The courts could even order "2.1.6 A canvass or survey of consumer preferences, attitudes or beliefs"
So basically if the majority of those who pre-ordered had the impression or belief that Steam keys were part of an agreement to purchase then this could get to be a very big problem for a company like PGI.
Here's another link https://www.competit.../eng/00513.html

NOTE!!!

1. The reason why its not worth the hassle is it will cost the person(s) who files the charges a great deal of money and time.

2. The person(s) who file such a lawsuit would get no money returned to them as this is a civil provision (civil lawsuit).

3. *** The person(s) who filed such a lawsuit would kill MWO, PGI, & MW5M and become hated.
Perhaps even hated by the general BT/MW community as much as Harmony Gold......... ***

[Akillius]

And for the dim witted, or argumentative trolls, or blinded EP fanboiz let me reiterate for emphasis that last point.

3. The person(s) who filed such a lawsuit would kill MWO, PGI, & MW5M and become hated.
Perhaps even hated by the general BT/MW community as much as Harmony Gold.........

[Wolf Clearwater]

Wait, you want to take away Steam keys (which is why I pre-ordered), and put this **** on EPIC? Yeah, I LOVE installing spyware and having my account hacked. Sounds ******* great. Let me just see if my ankles are cold? Well, maybe it will survive long enough to make it to other platforms. Will give it a couple days, and if no guarantees are made for other game stores, I will be getting my refund

[BadDire]

[G a i s u t o]

Wishmast3r, on 30 July 2019 - 11:26 AM, said:

Just got my refund.

Same here, woke up to my refund! Good.. now lets buy some real games!

[Ryllen Kriel]

Znozoic, on 30 July 2019 - 06:05 PM, said:

1000

YES! I MADE IT! the number 1000 is mineeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

I'll see you at 2,000, this thread will get there fast enough.

[Dee Eight]

Horseman, on 30 July 2019 - 10:56 AM, said:

No, you just play less than 10 games of Quick Play a month (and less than 25 games of Solaris per season).

These forums are full of players who talk about mechwarrior online as if they're an expert on the game's current state and they play the game, when they actually haven't in months or years.

[Dee Eight]

Zaptiah, on 30 July 2019 - 05:07 PM, said:

Specifically they have violated the US "Bait and Switch" law.

Which they're not subject to. PGI is a canadian company. US laws don't apply to them.

[Dee Eight]

Wolf Clearwater, on 30 July 2019 - 08:19 PM, said:

Wait, you want to take away Steam keys (which is why I pre-ordered), and put this **** on EPIC? Yeah, I LOVE installing spyware and having my account hacked. Sounds ******* great. Let me just see if my ankles are cold? Well, maybe it will survive long enough to make it to other platforms. Will give it a couple days, and if no guarantees are made for other game stores, I will be getting my refund

No steam keys ever actually existed though, to be taken away. MW5 was never advertised for pre-order on the steam store page. All the pre-orders were done through the MW5 website which belongs to PGI. Steam never saw a single cent of the pre-order sales money, thus they never generated any key codes for the eventual release of the game.

Oh and two new articles by other gaming magazines...

https://www.polygon....ma-russ-bullock

https://www.player.o...s-store-128487.

[Paladin IIC]

Dee Eight, on 30 July 2019 - 11:05 PM, said:

Which they're not subject to. PGI is a canadian company. US laws don't apply to them.

No, it violates Canadian laws as well that are normally enforced by the Competition Bureau. The Competition Act and Consumer Package and Labeling Act both cover bait and switch selling. Even without a dime being sold on Steam, they still advertised for well over a year that Steam would be the platform of choice. Suddenly removing that from the webpage doesn't change the fact that it was something they displayed as a selling point for an extended period of time. The only thing preventing legal action on their part is the immediate issuing of refunds. This doesn't change the shady, ham handed decisions PGI has made regarding the entire affair. PGI makes EA look fantastic by comparison with the way they've handled their transparency regarding this entire ordeal. Telling us about the decision after the fact did nothing but further the distrust the community has in their judgement regarding the usage of the MechWarrior IP.

Edited by Paladin IIC, 30 July 2019 - 11:36 PM.

[crazytimes]

Oh good, we're now at the stage where people are suing the internet. This is good, we are following the natural progression of the internet.

Someone needs to compare them to a certain national socialist dictator as well at some point.