1380 replies to this topic

[Alik Kerensky]

So let me get this straight you've altered the terms of our agreement and delayed the game. If we request a refund we get to keep the stuff for the dying MWO game that you've really stopped supporting years ago, few new maps, some mechs, minor interface changes, but the same stuff overall since release, and we have to wait a year to get it on Steam assuming it lasts a year. Other than large stompy mechs what is the incentive to go along with this shady BS? Why not offer complimentary Steam keys when it is released on Steam, that can only be activated by the original MW5 account. Save you this headache of reneging on your original selling offer, saying we need the money so you'll get this now and steam in the future.

[Bongo TauKat]

Did I miss it through the massive influx of posts or has PGI remained silent in their own announcement posting?

Yes, stick with a one sided supposed AMA about some vague reasoning that this will be better for the game. But for all that is unholy don't actually have the courage to reply to over 1000 posts concerning this debacle.

[crazytimes]

Bongo TauKat, on 30 July 2019 - 11:38 PM, said:

Did I miss it through the massive influx of posts or has PGI remained silent in their own announcement posting?

Yes, stick with a one sided supposed AMA about some vague reasoning that this will be better for the game. But for all that is unholy don't actually have the courage to reply to over 1000 posts concerning this debacle.

Why would they touch this? At the moment everyone is still in the blind rage phase. PGI could literally say they are giving everyone in the world a free copy of MW5 on Steam, releasing tomorrow, and people would still rant.

We all know that the salty people will fade back away shortly and then PGI will slowly emerge and back to business as normal.

[Bongo TauKat]

crazytimes, on 30 July 2019 - 11:41 PM, said:

Why would they touch this? At the moment everyone is still in the blind rage phase. PGI could literally say they are giving everyone in the world a free copy of MW5 on Steam, releasing tomorrow, and people would still rant.

We all know that the salty people will fade back away shortly and then PGI will slowly emerge and back to business as normal.

Business as normal? Considering their track record with the MW5 release and the lack of support for MWO I hope not. I do hope they emerge with a more considerate ear to their fans and customers when they espouse their feelings on these subjects.

[Paladin IIC]

crazytimes, on 30 July 2019 - 11:41 PM, said:

Why would they touch this? At the moment everyone is still in the blind rage phase. PGI could literally say they are giving everyone in the world a free copy of MW5 on Steam, releasing tomorrow, and people would still rant.

We all know that the salty people will fade back away shortly and then PGI will slowly emerge and back to business as normal.

Because it's a major decision that impacts every member of the community? Because a lot of people feel betrayed by a company they've supported in good faith? Because it's the responsible thing to do in most cases, unless they feel they're above explaining themselves to the people that keep their lights on?

It would be a fantastic turn around if Russ would make a public post himself, taking responsibility as CEO and address the community's concerns in his own words, without hiding behind the veil of exclusive Discord AMAs and online articles that reference the aforementioned.

Edited by Paladin IIC, 30 July 2019 - 11:48 PM.

[Curccu]

Dee Eight, on 30 July 2019 - 10:59 PM, said:

These forums are full of players who talk about mechwarrior online as if they're an expert on the game's current state and they play the game, when they actually haven't in months or years.

But hey if someone has played BT at 80's and know lore pretty well they have to be experts at everything related to BT.

[Ruediger Steiner]

Dee Eight, on 30 July 2019 - 10:59 PM, said:

These forums are full of players who talk about mechwarrior online as if they're an expert on the game's current state and they play the game, when they actually haven't in months or years.

So i´m the exception to that rule?

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He explained that of more than 20,000 pre-orders of MechWarrior 5, only 700 refunds were requested on the first day

That´s 3.5% on the first day of the announcement. And he uses the word "only"? Russ is delusional. He is not only lying to us, he is lying to himself. Or he is just arrogant, who can tell.
3.5% on the first day of an offer, that wasn´t advertised. Remember, to this day PGI did not inform their customers actively! No ******* email was sent to the people who preordered MW5. And still, on the first day, 3.5% took the refund.
It was several days till we figured out how much Russ lied to us.
3.5% on the first day will be the only number we will ever hear of. They will never tell us how many refunds they had to manage. Never!

[xe N on]

Cannot really comprehend the rage. Everyone playing MWO knows about PGI's history of decisions. Beside, I never would pre-order or buy games before there is a neutral review - but especially I would not pre-order from a developer showing a "minimal viable product" philosophy.

Nevertheless, I really don't understand all the rage against the epic game store ...

[crazytimes]

xe N on, on 30 July 2019 - 11:52 PM, said:

Nevertheless, I really don't understand all the rage against the epic game store ...

Every few pages this pops up. It usually gets responded to with 'OMG didn't you read the last 100 pages of blind hate!??'.

Something about chinese government stealing your details and making love to your wife while you're at work is the main reason I believe.

[xe N on]

crazytimes, on 30 July 2019 - 11:54 PM, said:

Something about chinese government stealing your details and making love to your wife while you're at work is the main reason I believe.

And what would be the difference in comparsion to steam, uplay, origin though?

If the Chinese Government want to steal personal information they would have plenty of ways and mouch cheaper one in doing so, anyways. It is so easy to track people in the net and gather personal information that it's not necessary to invest millions of dollars into a game store. You simply can buy bunch of personal data from traders that already do so.

And, as the recent years clearly shows, most data protection problems show up in US-companies ...

[crazytimes]

xe N on, on 31 July 2019 - 12:00 AM, said:

And what would be the difference in comparsion to steam, uplay, origin though?

uPlay offers a reacharound service, and origin promise to only do it once a month.

Quote

If the Chinese Government want to steal personal information they would have plenty of ways and mouch cheaper one in doing so, anyways. It is so easy to track people in the net and gather personal information that it's not necessary to invest millions of dollars into a game store. You simply can buy bunch of personal data from traders that already do so.

And, as the recent years clearly shows, most data protection problems show up in US-companies ...

Yeah, I like to run my old email addresses through "haveIbeenpwned". The account I used to use for game services and forums is in every major data breach and email dump ever made.

[Yozzman]

Sent my refund request again, as I did not get any confirmation of PGI that the email is received or being processed...

Getting worried here.

[Horseman]

Alik Kerensky, on 30 July 2019 - 11:34 PM, said:

Why not offer complimentary Steam keys when it is released on Steam, that can only be activated by the original MW5 account. Save you this headache of reneging on your original selling offer, saying we need the money so you'll get this now and steam in the future.

That is what Snapshot Games did with Phoenix Point. Saved them a lot of grief.

xe N on, on 30 July 2019 - 11:52 PM, said:

Cannot really comprehend the rage. Everyone playing MWO knows about PGI's history of decisions. Beside, I never would pre-order or buy games before there is a neutral review - but especially I would not pre-order from a developer showing a "minimal viable product" philosophy.
Nevertheless, I really don't understand all the rage against the epic game store ...

The main issue here is the bait and switch that was pulled on us after we were assured multiple times that the game would be on Steam and delivered as a Steam key. Thing is, it came to light that we were lied to - PGI signed the Epic exclusivity deal while the preorders were still up for sale and kept it going even after it rendered itself unable to fulfill the preorders on the terms it promised.

So yes, people are bitter about being lied to multiple times

That Epic itself is a **** platform is just a ****-colored "cherry" on top. The TL;DR is that as unpopular as Origin and Uplay have been, Epic makes them look like paragons of competence and virtue in comparison.

1. Epic launched their platform some two years before they were actually ready. Better part of a year after launch, it's still charitable to call it an open alpha, EXCEPT IT'S FULLY COMMERCIAL AND WANTS YOU TO GIVE IT YOUR MONEY.

2. Epic failed at security. They launched without 2FA and didn't have e-mail verification until last week. Yes, that means you could lose all your purchases if you made a typo creating your account. And people did.

3. They don't have a cart. And they started banning customers because the customers made several purchases one after another. During a sale.

4. They have sent customers' personal information to other customers.

5. Epic's client datamines your system. (see this)

6. EGS features, library and user base are not competitive with Steam, so Epic's genius executives decided that since they're sitting on a giant mountain of Fortnite cash, they can fake competitiveness with platform exclusives and force customers to come to them by getting developers to jump platforms after they've already taken a shitload of preorders (or, in some cases, Kickstarter pledges). Most of the PC gaming crowd are not fans of hostageware, much less of bait-and-switch tactics. This bait and switch riles people up and as a result Epic's poorly designed shitshow of a platform is pretty much considered radioactive by the bulk of the PC gaming community.

Let it sink in for a moment and then ask yourself if any sane person right now would touch a platform with that history.

This is without going into the views of their CEO, who apparently thinks that PC market is too open and should be walled up...

[Curccu]

xe N on, on 31 July 2019 - 12:00 AM, said:

And what would be the difference in comparsion to steam, uplay, origin though?

If the Chinese Government want to steal personal information they would have plenty of ways and mouch cheaper one in doing so, anyways. It is so easy to track people in the net and gather personal information that it's not necessary to invest millions of dollars into a game store. You simply can buy bunch of personal data from traders that already do so.

And, as the recent years clearly shows, most data protection problems show up in US-companies ...

And most of that China this china that doesn't seem to be much fact based... mostly theories.
https://www.polygon....versy-explained

[Csatti]

Yozzman, on 31 July 2019 - 01:12 AM, said:

Sent my refund request again, as I did not get any confirmation of PGI that the email is received or being processed...

Getting worried here.

Don't be. I just received this after four days (I also checked it on PayPal, it is good). They might be a little bit busy...

Quote

Hello,

I have just initiated a full refund for your MW5 purchase through a manual Send Money transfer in PayPal. A standard, direct refund was not possible due to the duration of time that had passed since the initial purchases.

You should receive an e-mail from PayPal shortly with all the details.
The MW5 pre-order has been removed from your account.
Regards,


[color=#2b2e2f]
GM xxxxxx
Senior Customer Support Rep
Piranha Games[/color]

[Ruediger Steiner]

crazytimes, on 30 July 2019 - 11:54 PM, said:

Every few pages this pops up. It usually gets responded to with 'OMG didn't you read the last 100 pages of blind hate!??'.

Something about chinese government stealing your details and making love to your wife while you're at work is the main reason I believe.

You disgust me!
Making fun of a serious problem without knowing all facts. EPIC store exclusive was the offending object. We are way past that.

And than there are people like Dee Eight, xeNon and many others. The biggest group in MWO, who just resigned from the hope PGI would ever do a good job or listen to the community. Which i can clearly understand. But on the other hand, and that´s what bothers me, they constantly attack people who tell the truth about how bad PGI and Russ really are, people who still try to change MWO for the better for all players. And by this defend and legitimate PGI and Russ bad behavior.
There is a term for this in psychology, the Stockholm syndrome.

[Mechdocdie]

Just a few observations of my own.

The depth of anger and grief expressed in the last 1000+ posts is an extraordinary reflection of both the depth of feeling about Mechwarrior in general and about MWO in particular. Mechwarrior Online, for all its glaring flaws, is a game we have loved and I don’t think there is anyone, in spite of what they may be saying in anger, who would be pleased if MWO was to disappear tonight without a trace. I am no whale but it would mean hundreds of dollars disappearing down the toilet, for a start, and I would really miss the MWO community which is, I think, one of the very best there is. As an eternal optimist I can only hope that when the dust settles from all of this that the cash injection to PGI and the profile of the release (even at Epic) of MW5 will see a new generation become Mechwarrior fans playing a version of MWO which continues to expand and improve. (Not holding my breath, here, but one can dream.)

Don’t get me wrong. I will also be seeking a refund because I don’t want Epic on my PC or have MW5, a game I hope to get many years of enjoyment from, tied to their business. I don’t think the MW5 presale process was handled well, ethically, morally or practically and it distresses me to see so many people hurt. I also feel betrayed as a part of my decision to pre-purchase was Russ’s statement the MWO’s future depended on the success of MW5, and it will impact on my trust when it comes to any future purchases from PGI. All the more reason to wait for the Steam release. (Fingers crossed but not holding my breath on that one, either).

BUT…

I feel a bit more sanguine about this than some, perhaps because I feel like buying something which looked like it would be good based on the advertising, getting it home to find is was not what I wanted and then taking it back for a full refund is kind of a run of the mill event. Getting to keep the bonus extras is kind of nice and after decades of waiting for the next Mechwarrior single player game I can cope with another 15 months sating myself with MWO, Battletech and occasional forays into MW4 with the Mektec expansion packs.

So with a small tear drying on my cheek, and a deep sign I have one last observation. MWO feels like a ghost town outside this thread. Not the games; they still having fairly short waits to get into QP and without any events running the quality of play is the best it has been for a while. But that’s what’s weird – no events, no new announcements, nothing. It feels a little creepy, especially after the fun feel of the Cats and Dogs event. I am guessing that all PGI hands are on deck elsewhere either finishing MW5 or processing the refunds but this is the longest I can remember between announcements. Again, optimist me is going to presume that this is temporary and that a new event (and Corsair for C-bills/Marauder II for MC) will pop up shortly.

So Matt, if you are reading any of this, can I make a suggestion? How about a Mea Culpa event as a way of saying sorry to the community? Something really generous like mechs with mechbays for completing challenges. Perhaps make them Faction play challenges given how aggrieved the FP section of the MWO community is feeling. Something like a mech for every 10 victories in FP, with up to 5 available over 2 weeks, with even a hero or two in the bunch. The mechs would need to all be chosen to reflect the mood of the community. A Misery to reflect how we all feel. A Mean Baby to reflect what we think of Russ right now. Any or all of the mechs with “Mad” in their name to reflect this decision to go with Epic. It would not entirely make up for all of this, and it probably won’t persuade some, but it might go some way to demonstrating that you guys get it, and that you give a $#!+.

It would make me feel a little warmer,at least!

Edited by Mechdocdie, 31 July 2019 - 01:38 AM.

[crazytimes]

Wishmast3r, on 31 July 2019 - 01:29 AM, said:

You disgust me!
Making fun of a serious problem without knowing all facts.

So much salt! That's it, let the saltiness flow through you.

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And than there are people like Dee Eight, xeNon and many others

Like Smithy and Johnno and Matt and Tommy?

Quote

.they constantly attack people who tell the truth

The most important step in an irrational psychosis is creating an artificial enemy in opposition to oneself.

Quote

There is a term for this in psychology, the Stockholm syndrome.

Here I was thinking that was about kidnap victims identifying with their kidnappers motivations... when it turns out it was actually people getting butthurt about video games. Huh.

[Prototelis]

Akillius, on 30 July 2019 - 08:06 PM, said:

3. The person(s) who filed such a lawsuit would kill MWO, PGI, & MW5M and become hated.
Perhaps even hated by the general BT/MW community as much as Harmony Gold.........

Yeah, good luck. You aren't getting anything. Everyone that wants one is getting a refund; there are no damages.

You're also misinterpreting why this isn't a bait and switch.

I'm not trying to troll, or play DA, or whatever. A Bait and Switch is a very specific concept.

[Ruediger Steiner]

Thanks for your response crazytimes.
Thanks for showing i´m right.

crazytimes, on 31 July 2019 - 01:54 AM, said:

Here I was thinking that was about kidnap victims identifying with their kidnappers motivations... when it turns out it was actually people getting butthurt about video games. Huh.

And thanks for showing us your low IQ and that discussing with people like you is like playing chess with a dove.