1380 replies to this topic

[Sigmar Sich]

Tiantara, on 02 August 2019 - 07:03 AM, said:

Maybe I don't know about PGI and Russ (because I don't work in PGI or with Russ), but I pretty well know about game developing and pipelines in game production. And I can see where developers must do better things, and where they must but can't do because of many restrictions which gamers can't see. Developer can have great idea of improving game mechanic, but engine restriction, heavy coding or lacks of specialists in that sphere - forbode implement it in game.

Also I pretty well known about weak points of current engine of MWO (not stating fact that engine old and clumsy), as well as power of UE4. Not Russ, not PGI (artist, programmers and modelers of which do everything they can), but knowledge of game engine drive me to have believe in MWO on UE4 engine in future, after MW5.
Yes, mech pack - it's a content which must be in game. Yes - skills and some other progress may lost (but not already purchased mechs). But in same time developers got engine with more proper support, better technology, more optimized use of PC hardware and in same time slightly better netcode. And with all that - chance to implement in game everything what community wait for without many of current restrictions.

I agree with you about the engine. But poor tool is only a part of our problems. A decision is influenced by a tool, but is made by a craftsman.
It wasn't CryEngine who decided "you're not a target audience, e-sport, Solaris, etc.", perpetually losing huge chunks of the playerbase.

"Where there is a will, there is a way". Same with creativity. And where is lack of it, no tool will help.

Your dream highly depends on PGI's ability to evolve through learning from their mistakes.
Even creativity can be hired, if not evolved.

This dream is not impossible, and i would love for it to come true. I have my doubts, but miracles happen.

The wisest thing right now would be to wait for MW5 to reveal itself, to see if craftsman lives up to the tool.

Quote

I have position as player and as part of game developing community as well, so that give me ability to see problems from both sides,

*peeks through the new comment*
So do i, and...
*sees the last part*

Quote

After all PGI do great work to make game which still alive. Admire it.

...and i realized i was wasting my time writing. *shrug*

Edited by Sigmar Sich, 02 August 2019 - 09:30 AM.

[Ruediger Steiner]

Tiantara, on 02 August 2019 - 09:11 AM, said:

how many players was on test servers when that decision come out?

Why bother wasting your time on the test servers, when PGI isn´t listening?

And for the rest of your post ... you are playing a whole different MWO then i do. I would really like to play your version.

[Tiantara]

Sigmar Sich, on 02 August 2019 - 09:25 AM, said:

I agree with you about the engine. But poor tool is only a part of our problems. A decision is influenced by a tool, but is made by a craftsman.
It wasn't CryEngine who decided "you're not a target audience, e-sport, Solaris, etc.", perpetually losing huge chunks of the playerbase.

- Sometimes you can't change something really old, because you have no possibilities to change it. Solaris and e-sport - one of the ways, not main, but pretty strong while many games try to go that way also. It guaranteed more interest to them not as players but as viewer too. Nice addition. Also - duels one on one or 2vs2 in custom lobby not a rare thing. I really love training there with some strong players or try new builds vs specific mech without making hard mistake in competitive play. So - Solaris good add-on to game which not also provide possibility to test build or have fun from duels, but also take prizes and XP without high depending on team skill, random group skill or random map mode. Solaris great opportunity to master duel skills, gain XP, gain some stuff and also teach some basics of Meta-Builds. Like - this is meta. You can win by luck, by skill, or by building contr-meta.

As well - game is tool also. Depending of how you play in it and how often - it can be as entertainment as boring. You choose. Playing game like working - kill fun.

[Tiantara]

Wishmast3r, on 02 August 2019 - 09:34 AM, said:

Why bother wasting your time on the test servers, when PGI isn´t listening?

And for the rest of your post ... you are playing a whole different MWO then i do. I would really like to play your version.

- Same time - why bother listening 10-50 players if all other have no interest to make game better, and all who care - too little pat of all players and sometimes provide really unbalanced suggestions?
When weapon, HS and GH changes I was nearly in every PTS. And I see really little amount of players who really have interest to suggest something not only what they want, but also what possible to implement.
You can hundreds time say about feature which you like to see in game, but if that impossible to do - you don't get it. Not many can balance between "what we want and what close to it can be implemented to game in the end". And what a surprise - some of their ideas already in games. Just check some posts in discussion about changes.
Noone say that testing ans calculating balances and changes would be fun. It's also work.
But players who know how to change FP, mostly prefer keep silence or say what PGI mustn't do. Or whine. Really rare - calculate time and resource consuming for changes and make decision to suggest something in the middle. Not all changes at once, but something in first priority. And start dialogue about possible make that or not, and if not, how better do that.
Sometime change good, but in long road can greatly affect another game aspects, but players don't see that.

All that as result change game, but not as community will. PGI try to change narrow aspects of game, and in same time ruin something what was good, normal or acceptable by gamers. It's unpreventable in every game developing process.
So - less feedback based on strong understanding of restrictions and possibilities, less great changes and proper decision.
If test servers nearly empty and players start suggestion only when decision implemented on live servers - all what go wrong, part of players community also.
Same like changes of LRM, which by hardcore players may be really good if team have intel-mech-scout-spotter (at least 2), but really bad in random team where no spotters, no intel-mech, and every small Spider full of weapon only to bring more damage and gain more speed, and pilot of which think nothing about all others, run forward and shreddering slow target back staying as close as possible. And I even don't mention players behavior like not pressing "lock target" (by R or like me - Q) and not providing any information of enemy position (like in fear of frag stealing or what?) what bring whole team in ambush and precise fire. What they think? Afraid of evil LRMboats who steal all frags? What use of all damage if team loose anyway?
So changes based on some limit amount of players who play Test and say - ok. And all other in same time grind c-bill and whine when changes come to live.

[Ruediger Steiner]

I want to stop talking to you.

[Tiantara]

Wishmast3r, on 02 August 2019 - 10:27 AM, said:

I want to stop talking to you.

- Ok ...

[Earl Whitehaven]

Tiantara, on 02 August 2019 - 09:11 AM, said:

After all PGI do great work to make game which still alive. Admire it.

Admire what? MWO is an ok game, just ok. It's not groundbreaking and frankly not very unique. To admire something means: regard (an object, quality, or person) with respect or warm approval. The only aspect of PGI's time with mech warrior I can respect at all is their models since HBS was able to make a great Battletech game using them so I can't really even give that to PGI. PGI as a company doesn't deserve respect or my approval. Their lies and BS since 2012 let alone the MW5 debacle grant them no respect from me. I hope you do enjoy MW5 and get everything you want out of it. I'll pass at least till its 65+% off on steam or GoG or maybe forever. Admire PGI all you want, I will not.

[Tiantara]

Earl Whitehaven, on 02 August 2019 - 11:40 AM, said:

Admire what? MWO is an ok game, just ok. It's not groundbreaking and frankly not very unique. To admire something means: regard (an object, quality, or person) with respect or warm approval. The only aspect of PGI's time with mech warrior I can respect at all is their models since HBS was able to make a great Battletech game using them so I can't really even give that to PGI. PGI as a company doesn't deserve respect or my approval. Their lies and BS since 2012 let alone the MW5 debacle grant them no respect from me. I hope you do enjoy MW5 and get everything you want out of it. I'll pass at least till its 65+% off on steam or GoG or maybe forever. Admire PGI all you want, I will not.

- If count any mmo games, yeap, ok. If comparing with all FPS mech games - much better than any of them right now (or they don't give same as MWO). It's not groundbreaking (at least because it old and wellknown), but alternatives I don't see too. Strong alternatives. Not strategy with view from above (which I love since MC-MC2) with step-by-step strategy, but FPS, where you feel mass of mech, slow pointing weapon to target and so on. And I think that make already working game much better than wait until new game appears from nowhere. With all new mistakes, bugs and unpolished process. Because make something based on already working easier than do from scratch (and we see how it works with any games which totally new and some launcher without any experience before developing). So... really pretty working MWO is what nice. Can PGI make it better? I think yes. Need PGI financial support to hire some additional specialist and some space to make less damaging changes? Also yes. And connecting with EGS one step of that move by saving some %.
Here need separate company and product. If game ok, not projecting bad feelings of company on it. That all.
Yeap. I really hope I get everything from MW5 what I expect and really enjoy it when it ready. But if MW5 go wrong... I honestly write about it too.

[NocturnalBeast]

Tiantara, on 02 August 2019 - 12:06 PM, said:

- If count any mmo games, yeap, ok. If comparing with all FPS mech games - much better than any of them right now (or they don't give same as MWO). It's not groundbreaking (at least because it old and wellknown), but alternatives I don't see too. Strong alternatives. Not strategy with view from above (which I love since MC-MC2) with step-by-step strategy, but FPS, where you feel mass of mech, slow pointing weapon to target and so on. And I think that make already working game much better than wait until new game appears from nowhere. With all new mistakes, bugs and unpolished process. Because make something based on already working easier than do from scratch (and we see how it works with any games which totally new and some launcher without any experience before developing). So... really pretty working MWO is what nice. Can PGI make it better? I think yes. Need PGI financial support to hire some additional specialist and some space to make less damaging changes? Also yes. And connecting with EGS one step of that move by saving some %.
Here need separate company and product. If game ok, not projecting bad feelings of company on it. That all.
Yeap. I really hope I get everything from MW5 what I expect and really enjoy it when it ready. But if MW5 go wrong... I honestly write about it too.

I you want strategy,then get HBS' BATTLETECH. MW5 seems like it is going to be a 1st person version of BATTLETECH though.

Edited by Ed Steele, 02 August 2019 - 01:59 PM.

[Tiantara]

Ed Steele, on 02 August 2019 - 01:58 PM, said:

I you want strategy,then get HBS' BATTLETECH. MW5 seems like it is going to be a 1st person version of BATTLETECH though.

- Emmm... I want nice FPS mech game, which MW5 is. And yeap, as alternative I'm already have HBS' Battletech (which also cool and highly reminds best days with MechCommanders games. But in upper comments someone say about plenty better alternatives to MW5 and MWO with same mechanic, with mech and with shooting from 1st person. And... I really wonder where they take that thoughts. Because I don't really see any. And really think strange comparing MWO with some other non-mech games only because there you also can shoot. I'm not love MWO only because you can shoot and make weapon builds. I love it because of mech, many different mech, with high customization possibility to create own build good for gameplay. For possibility to use vital points of enemy, for plenty of maneuvers to win with team or even when you 1 oppose 3-6 mech from enemy team.

[Old Mechdonald]

I love the game. I am in for the long haul. I will buy the game. I play fortnite and have had no problems. I don't get it

[NocturnalBeast]

Tiantara, on 02 August 2019 - 02:21 PM, said:

- Emmm... I want nice FPS mech game, which MW5 is. And yeap, as alternative I'm already have HBS' Battletech (which also cool and highly reminds best days with MechCommanders games. But in upper comments someone say about plenty better alternatives to MW5 and MWO with same mechanic, with mech and with shooting from 1st person. And... I really wonder where they take that thoughts. Because I don't really see any. And really think strange comparing MWO with some other non-mech games only because there you also can shoot. I'm not love MWO only because you can shoot and make weapon builds. I love it because of mech, many different mech, with high customization possibility to create own build good for gameplay. For possibility to use vital points of enemy, for plenty of maneuvers to win with team or even when you 1 oppose 3-6 mech from enemy team.

If you want to play the real thing, there is no alternative to MWO or MW5, other than the older MW games or MWLL (which I have said before is not official and could get shut down at any time).

[Akillius]

Earl Whitehaven, on 02 August 2019 - 11:40 AM, said:

Their lies and BS since 2012

Cough, was it 2012 for you ???
Are you sure it wasn't closer to 2009-ish and maybe take or give a year???

Circa-2009 PGI announced "MechWarrior 5" the first time.
And obviously back when they gave a **** about doing intro game videos right to interest the masses...

[NocturnalBeast]

Akillius, on 02 August 2019 - 08:23 PM, said:

Cough, was it 2012 for you ???
Are you sure it wasn't closer to 2009-ish and maybe take or give a year???

Circa-2009 PGI announced "MechWarrior 5" the first time.
And obviously back when they gave a **** about doing intro game videos right to interest the masses...

Yeah, I linked that in another thread too. MW5 was the game that PGI always wanted to make, but they could not get the funding at the time, so they made MWO as a means to an end and now we are getting MW5. Now that I have seen the "MECH" in Fortnite season 10, the deal with Epic makes sense, since now, when the Fornite players see MW5 in the Epic game store at least some of them will buy it. And even if only a few percent of Fornite players buy MW5, it is probably still more players than the entire MWO playerbase.

Edited by Ed Steele, 02 August 2019 - 10:50 PM.

[Ruediger Steiner]

If a large amount of Fortnite kiddies start playing MWO i´ll commit seppuku.

[Prototelis]

I dunno, a large influx of players who actually know how to play shooters might be a good thing.

[NocturnalBeast]

Wishmast3r, on 02 August 2019 - 11:32 PM, said:

If a large amount of Fortnite kiddies start playing MWO i´ll commit seppuku.

More money = (theoretically) more development of MWO and MW5.

Prototelis, on 02 August 2019 - 11:42 PM, said:

I dunno, a large influx of players who actually know how to play shooters might be a good thing.

Would be an interesting mix of drunk old guys (and a few gals and other) and young over-caffeinated kids.

[Valas]

Refunded my preorder as well. I don't mind waiting to get the game, to avoid using yet ANOTHER stupid launcher. I already have too many now, and I am pretty much sick and tired of all these companies basically forcing you to use THEIR launcher, to play the games we want to play. Origin, Steam, Uplay, Epic, Arc, even GOG has a game store/launcher now, but you can get away with not using it. Epic has a terrible reputation for security, and just outright stupidity, with it's treatment of it's customers. They have a poor concept of what customer service is. Their software will NEVER be on any system I own. Same thing happened with Borderlands 3, Epic exclusive for 6 months, so that's 6 months that Gearbox won't see a cent from me either.

[Akillius]

Another launcher isn't an issue for me.
Epic games by itself is also a non-issue for me, since other launchers also have or had security issues
Anyone remember the many-many years Sony ignored their "security", and jokes of how sony was run by hackers.
https://web.archive....edthisweek.com/
Honestly if Sony didn't oversimplify avatar stats system in Star Wars Galaxies way-way back then I'd probably still be playing it even though Sony's security back then was equally as bad as Epic's security is today.

I will always see PGI's Steam/Epic "announcement" as another PGI debacle were the uppermost management blundered along again without any thought or effort put into announcing anything during ~4 months after they signed with epic.

As much as I want to support MW5M...
IMO, Russ himself needs to acknowledge and formally announce in video format on youtube with links on main pages of PGI and MWO websites. Something like; yes he goofed up, made a serious error in judgment, was completely wrong by not announcing everything months earlier and reopening preorders for those who hate Steam, but like other platforms, etc.
And somehow rewarded those preorders who stuck around through yet Another PGI blunder-f***.

And I still haven't decided on a refund, and will hold on until the last week of August.
Hopefully before then, PGI at least announces something, even if its just new rewards for keeping preorders.
But I'm not holding my breath and fully expect to be filing for an ultimate refund in 3 weeks time.

[245 Trioxin]

Does anyone have any metric as to how many folks have filed for a refund?

It'd be utterly hilarious to me if PGI lost in refunds what they got from Epic...

-Triox