118 replies to this topic

[Feral Clown]

Tarl Cabot, on 23 August 2019 - 09:08 PM, said:

You misunderstand. In Solo queue max duo and only one per side (some other restrictions). In the GQ the max 3 solo pugs simply to ensure that it is not a heavy solo pug team vs an all group team.

No I don't. Two even is no bueno. Guaranteeing two high caliber or two low caliber players on a side would not make the game better in any way.

Solo's in group queue sure, don't care.

[Tarl Cabot]

Feral Clown, on 23 August 2019 - 09:13 PM, said:

No I don't. Two even is no bueno. Guaranteeing two high caliber or two low caliber players on a side would not make the game better in any way.

Solo's in group queue sure, don't care.

Duo, not much difference if sync dropping, only with sync 50/50 chance dropping opposite teams. And those high calibre players would be dropping in Tier 1 matches..and? Forgot your big boy britches somewhere?

The other effect would be in the lower tiers/fewer played games, players getting friends to drop with them without as much of a worry of being stomped, there would still be some since they could still drop into the GQ but until the Group population increases during those specific period of time, likely have more drops in normal queue than GQ, more so in off hours.

Higher PSR thresholds and what the MM (MS within Tier sets) uses to form teams would still need to be modified. Though all of this is wishful thinking. Been pushing for isXL survive ST loss with different non-lethal penalties a whole lot longer.. I do not see any of the above going anywhere.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 23 August 2019 - 09:41 PM.

[Feral Clown]

Tarl Cabot, on 23 August 2019 - 09:35 PM, said:

Duo, not much difference if sync dropping, only with sync 50/50 chance dropping opposite teams. And those high calibre players would be dropping in Tier 1 matches..and? Forgot your big boy britches somewhere?

The other effect would be in the lower tiers/fewer played games, players getting friends to drop with them without as much of a worry of being stomped, there would still be some since they could still drop into the GQ but until the Group population increases during those specific period of time, likely have more drops in normal queue than GQ, more so in off hours.

Higher PSR thresholds and what the MM (MS within Tier sets) uses to form teams would still need to be modified. Though all of this is wishful thinking. Been pushing for isXL survive ST loss with different non-lethal penalties a whole lot longer.. I do not see any of the above going anywhere.

Duo would be a huge difference. Top end singles already make a huge difference. No groups of any size in solo queue period.

[John Bronco]

Agreed, two competent pilots are more than enough to dominate most matches.

[Kroete]

Alloh, on 22 August 2019 - 02:14 PM, said:

Focusing on PUG problems:
1. Cannot find group games.
2. Population decline

Solution:
1. Merge Solo/Group queues, sort/split by recent stats

There are not enough players that want to play groupplay,
so let the groups stomp pugs in solo queue?

Didnt you learned from cw what happens if you throw solos against groups?
The solos get stomped and if they get stomped enough, they will leave.

Killing another queue because your queue is dead?
Wellcome in the age of the orange clown!

Edited by Kroete, 23 August 2019 - 11:40 PM.

[Alienized]

Kroete, on 23 August 2019 - 10:33 PM, said:

There are not enough players that want to play groupplay,
so let the groups stomp pugs in solo queue?

Didnt you learned from cw what happens if you throw solos against groups?
The solos get stomped and if they get stomped enough, they will leave.

Killing another queue because your queue is dead?
Wellcome in the age of the orange clown!

honestly, units/friends that want to drop together just syncdrop nowadays which has the same effect alot of times.

[Tarl Cabot]

Feral Clown, on 23 August 2019 - 09:56 PM, said:

Duo would be a huge difference. Top end singles already make a huge difference. No groups of any size in solo queue period.

Sync dropping already happens. And top end singles on both sides would still be affected by the type of potatoes they are saddled with. First World/Tier 1 problems. How would that affect the lower tiers though, seriously? For duos to work though, the MM needs to utilize something other than Tier. And would duos be more likely to actually communicate, not just with their tag partner but maybe with the rest of the team? And if not directly, would the rest of the team be more willing to follow that duo's lead?

What type of dynamic would that actually bring to the queue? And with more groups forming up (with my setup duos would not be able to opt out of group queue) would that increase the population of the group queue, and with said duos acting as a foundation to form a larger group for the GQ? How will that affect actual units? (remember thread is about PGI killing units )

Edit..

PGI revamps the MM to use MS/Tier range for groups, reseeds the players AND increase the PSR threshold for movement up, at a minimum.

Then duos would be allowed to opt into the solo queue (without opt out of GQ), but tiers 1-2 are prevented from opt into solo queue as a duo?

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 24 August 2019 - 03:35 PM.

[Feral Clown]

Tarl Cabot, on 24 August 2019 - 03:30 PM, said:

Sync dropping already happens. And top end singles on both sides would still be affected by the type of potatoes they are saddled with. First World/Tier 1 problems. How would that affect the lower tiers though, seriously? For duos to work though, the MM needs to utilize something other than Tier. And would duos be more likely to actually communicate, not just with their tag partner but maybe with the rest of the team? And if not directly, would the rest of the team be more willing to follow that duo's lead?

What type of dynamic would that actually bring to the queue? And with more groups forming up (with my setup duos would not be able to opt out of group queue) would that increase the population of the group queue, and with said duos acting as a foundation to form a larger group for the GQ? How will that affect actual units? (remember thread is about PGI killing units )

Edit..

PGI revamps the MM to use MS/Tier range for groups, reseeds the players AND increase the PSR threshold for movement up, at a minimum.

Then duos would be allowed to opt into the solo queue (without opt out of GQ), but tiers 1-2 are prevented from opt into solo queue as a duo?

Yes syncs happen and they can quite often have an effect on the match. Usually though it's streamers so there is more than two.

Two coordinated, on comms, grouped up to win type guys that aren't just socializing with streamer or unit mates would be a very different animal. If you don't really believe that than fine, push PGI really hard for it and rally the troops.

[Kroete]

Tarl Cabot, on 24 August 2019 - 03:30 PM, said:

Sync dropping already happens.  And top end singles on both sides would still be affected by the type of potatoes they are saddled with.   First World/Tier 1 problems.  How would that affect the lower tiers though, seriously?  For duos to work though, the MM needs to utilize something other than Tier.  And would duos be more likely to actually communicate, not just with their tag partner but maybe with the rest of the team?  And if not directly, would the rest of the team be more willing to follow that duo's lead?

What type of dynamic would that actually bring to the queue?  And with more groups forming up (with my setup duos would not be able to opt out of group queue) would that increase the population of the group queue, and with said duos acting as a foundation to form a larger group for the GQ?  How will that affect actual units?  (remember thread is about PGI killing units  https://static.mwomercs.com/forums//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png )

Edit..

PGI revamps the MM to use MS/Tier range for groups, reseeds the players AND increase the PSR threshold for movement up, at a minimum.

Then duos would be allowed to opt into the solo queue (without opt out of GQ), but tiers 1-2 are prevented from opt into solo queue as a duo?

Sure sync dropping happens, people want/need every advantage they can get.
And no its not just friends, there where a time where groups and cw had people in the queue and some still tried to sync.
Its not about playing together most times...

No groups in qp, but solos can opt-in in gp, like it is in cw.
Or do you have fear, that they will not stay after they get stomped by the groups?

If this is no option for you, just explain why a tiny minority should have advantages in a solo pug queue?


Btw, some years ago, mabye 4 or 5?, i suggested to let the groups and solos play together, but the groups get some elo increase based on the playernumbers in a group to compensate the group advantage.
Most groups advocated against it, because groups have no adcantage ...
... now they have to play in their (empty) groupqueue, the (empty) cw queue and as solo pug in qp or use tolerated exploits if they dont have the balls for real solo pug play.

Sad thing, groups where never the majority and now they are little tiny minority.
They cant even fill a match (24people!) but still demand and scream for some attention.

Edited by Kroete, 24 August 2019 - 04:47 PM.

[Feral Clown]

Kroete, on 24 August 2019 - 04:45 PM, said:

Sure sync dropping happens, people want/need every advantage they can get.
And no its not just friends, there where a time where groups and cw had people in the queue and some still tried to sync.
Its not about playing together most times...

No groups in qp, but solos can opt-in in gp, like it is in cw.
Or do you have fear, that they will not stay after they get stomped by the groups?

If this is no option for you, just explain why a tiny minority should have advantages in a solo pug queue?


Btw, some years ago, mabye 4 or 5?, i suggested to let the groups and solos play together, but the groups get some elo increase based on the playernumbers in a group to compensate the group advantage.
Most groups advocated against it, because groups have no adcantage ...
... now they have to play in their (empty) groupqueue, the (empty) cw queue and as solo pug in qp or use tolerated exploits if they dont have the balls for real solo pug play.

Sad thing, groups where never the majority and now they are little tiny minority.
They cant even fill a match (24people!) but still demand and scream for some attention.

Tolerated exploits?

[FRAGTAST1C]

So, are we in agreement over something here at least? Like, allow Solos to opt into GQ and fill pre-made groups with these solos based on some meaningful skill rating? Can we agree on this for now? All the arguing and bringing up events and screw-ups from 4-5 years ago isn't serving any purpose.

[Kroete]

Feral Clown, on 24 August 2019 - 05:05 PM, said:

Tolerated exploits?

Trying to play as group in a not group inviroment by bypassing the game mechanics is exploiting,
pgi tolerates it because its cheaper then finding a solution.

FRAGTAST1C, on 24 August 2019 - 06:07 PM, said:

So, are we in agreement over something here at least? Like, allow Solos to opt into GQ and fill pre-made groups with these solos based on some meaningful skill rating? Can we agree on this for now? All the arguing and bringing up events and screw-ups from 4-5 years ago isn't serving any purpose.

Solos in group/cw was never an issue but by some groups/players that campained to remove solo players from cw. Now they have their nearly solo/pug free cw.
How much time does it take to get a match?

At the same time i stated that the groups need solos as fillers, but solos dont need groups.
Very simple, but too much for some people to understand ....

Edited by Kroete, 25 August 2019 - 04:16 AM.

[A1Ste4kSauce]

No groups in solo que. Stomps are already frequent enough. And are units even a thing anymore? The game doesn't feel centered around units, so who cares if they all die.

[Feral Clown]

Kroete, on 25 August 2019 - 04:11 AM, said:

\

Trying to play as group in a not group inviroment by bypassing the game mechanics is exploiting,
pgi tolerates it because its cheaper then finding a solution.

It's your opinion it is an exploit.

It is also your opinion that PGI tolerates it instead of not having a problem with it.

If PGI really felt it was in fact an exploit, doubt very much Sean Lang would do it since he is an employee of their's.

[Kroete]

Feral Clown, on 25 August 2019 - 03:06 PM, said:

It's your opinion it is an exploit.

It is also your opinion that PGI tolerates it instead of not having a problem with it.

If PGI really felt it was in fact an exploit, doubt very much Sean Lang would do it since he is an employee of their's.

A employee syncdrops for streams, instead of forming a group with the people who syncdrops and go for cw or gp?

This behavior is a clear statment from pgi about this two queues:
They are official dead, if even the employes dont believe in them anymore.

[Feral Clown]

Kroete, on 25 August 2019 - 03:46 PM, said:

A employee syncdrops for streams, instead of forming a group with the people who syncdrops and go for cw or gp?

This behavior is a clear statment from pgi about this two queues:
They are official dead, if even the employes dont believe in them anymore.

Phil doesn't like CW.

He does form groups, but when you have more than eleven viewers it is easier to interact and play with more people this way.

PGI also probably has a pretty real understanding of the state of the game as far as population goes.

[Lazor Sharp]

Once again, I will point out that PGI's Piss Poor decision's concerning Team/Group/Units Team play has run off most of the BT/MW player base they started out with, oh so many years ago. They catered to the least common detonator, the Solo Yolo's, most of which are newbies just checking the game out or getting better. some ppl just can't be in a group for various reasons, so ok no unit for them. Some times just getting in a few matches is all ppl have time for, but these PPL should not be the dominant player base in a Team based game. Units/Teams should be the dominant player base. One of the The biggest problems was that the NPE was so bad the new players were turned off before they got the hang of the game basics.
Why:
1. No Tutorials to teach new players the very basic game play to play solo, much less Team based game play
2, No Unit recruitment features to Teach New players the basics, or the basics of Team Play using coms, Reinforcing Teams/units game play to grow the knowledgeable player base.

If they had made better decisions about these issue's, they would have retained that dedicated Team/Unit player base, they would have had that Team centric player base that would have made sure their Solars 5 esport, and the Comp/League mode were a hit. With many brackets for various skilled players to play in successfully. Their CW mode would be a vibrant game mode with hundred's of units competing for various planets to occupy. Personally, I want a McRugby League to play in. They would still have a healthy Solo Que for the more casual PPL to play in.

Piss Poor decisions ran off their most dedicated player base, the units....!!!!

[50 50]

The other option is to remove the team size restriction.
People would play the game more if they could play more games.
You would hope there would be enough players online in any queue to at least form a 4v4.
If more players start to enter the queue it should naturally build up with varying combinations of 4v4, 8v8 and 12v12 matches taking place.
It's fine when the queues are packed and you get continual 12v12 matches, but that's not always the case and there is no flexibility in the match maker to allow smaller teams.

I would agree that allowing solos to opt into the group queue is a good idea but little point if there is still not enough players to form a 12v12 match.
You could argue the other way re small groups in the solo queue.
I have a feeling that getting one queue to check another queue for available players to try and pull a match together has a few technical limitations though and may not even be possible.

Might have been possible in a single merged queue with a 'preference' option like we had at one point to select missions (Assault Conquest, Skirmish etc).

If not being able to get a game in the group queue forces those players to drop in the solo queue to play a game, you would have to say something has to give.

[MadcatX]

Here's my prediction of what will occur in the future eventually, based on my experience of playing other large-scale 2-sided PvP games who's population is shrinking to the point where were at now:

1) Group queue will become a ghost town due to queue times becoming far too long.

2) A potential group queue opt-in is implemented (I've only seen it once). It backfired in that occasion due to an influx of people who still want to play in the group queue lead to half the teams of the ranked(group) queues were filled by solo's. That didn't work out.

3) Players who played mostly the group queue, and still want to play the game, drop into solo. Being unaccustomed to a game mode that is nowhere near as coordinated or usually good skill-wise as their group counterparts, some start barking out orders in a non-productive way and berating the team for not following them or playing at their level (except this time while their still alive, unlike the usual dead person saying "This team sucks").

4) Tier 3 scrubs like myself eventually lose patience and leave the game for good.

5) The remaining players tend to be really good, thus completely eliminating any new players.

It sucks that we're on our way there, only thing we can do is try to enjoy the ride while it lasts.

[JediPanther]

They already ended the cw game with phrase 2. Unit droped two eight man then two six man last night and without ts or discord got wiped 4 losses in a row and we all went back to yolo land.