118 replies to this topic

[GeminiWolf]

PhoenixFire55, on 23 August 2019 - 01:31 PM, said:

LOL ... yeah right. PGI sold them one thing, never delivered and then told em to go **** themselves on an Island^TM and then just proceeded with fail after fail and lie after lie for 7 years. Naaah, totally decided to quit themselves, for no apparent reason whatsoever.

Effin snowflakes.

You again made my point they decided to quit. For whatever reason, in the end it was their own decision.

[PhoenixFire55]

GeminiWolf, on 26 August 2019 - 06:25 PM, said:

You again made my point they decided to quit. For whatever reason, in the end it was their own decision.

Yeah, just keep that in mind for when somebody sets your house on fire, that it was you who decided to exit it, that it was your own decision and thus you are solely responsible.

[Sigmar Sich]

There is a trick MWO could probably use. Make a permanent weekly "challenge" - play X games via LFG, get 50 MC and/or GSP or something. Not sure they can track it this way, then just X games in group Q or FP.
This, of course, does not guarantee any teamwork. However the most odious solos will be kicked out, or such groups will be stomped all too often, so maybe some hope remains.

Also maybe 5 MC per victory in comp Q.

This should provide enough material to form groups.
Though considering it is hard to find even a QP match on a workday, perhaps nothing can help it anymore.

[Asym]

This is the validation of the phrase: You reap what you sow......

[GeminiWolf]

PhoenixFire55, on 27 August 2019 - 12:23 AM, said:

Yeah, just keep that in mind for when somebody sets your house on fire, that it was you who decided to exit it, that it was your own decision and thus you are solely responsible.

If I decided to stay in a burning house and died, yeah that would have still been my decision...but that is still a bit different than deciding to quit a game. But lets take this a little further, so the house is mine therefore its a crime for them to set it on fire and it was them doing the act of setting MY house on fire. This game company owns their game, its up to you if you want to play it. Then again, were you just threatening to burn down my house? Because it seems you are suggesting that.

[Vellron2005]

Alloh, on 22 August 2019 - 04:39 AM, said:

So, is PGI trying to KILL UNITS?

The major attraction in this game, for me and my group, was TEAMPLAY. You know, make up a group, talk to each other to coordinate, then talk ****, laugh and have fun.

My Unit, FEB, was created for this. We were active every night, with up to 10 players at once, very often... now we no longer have a contract, each member of unit can go to a different side of FP, and it became nearly impossible to find GROUP GAMES...

And since we cannot play in group, in same match, in same team, we are breaking apart. Players are giving up to join our DISCORD ... why, if we try to make a group, hang >10min "SearchingWarrior", then disband and try a sync drop... and when the members are spread among many matches and teams, becomes hard to talk...


So, PGI, what's your plan for UNITs ?

I've said it before, I'll say it again..

Units SHOULD die..

Why?

Because in this game, units have basically become factions.. and what should have been factions, has no impact on the game whatsoever.

The biggest problem in this game it that it's a team-based game where you have 2-3 top-tier teams that dominate all the rest, and normal, causal players can't breathe or play without getting stomped.

I'm not saying team play is bad.

I'm saying a local high school football team can't play against all-starts all the time.

We need to switch from units to larger faction-level organisation. So the amazing veteran players spread out across multiple teams..

But this is all pointless anyway.. game is on maintenance mode, there will be no major changes added.. so.. yeah..

Moo point.

[Feral Clown]

Vellron2005, on 28 August 2019 - 11:44 PM, said:

I've said it before, I'll say it again..

Units SHOULD die..

Why?

Because in this game, units have basically become factions.. and what should have been factions, has no impact on the game whatsoever.

The biggest problem in this game it that it's a team-based game where you have 2-3 top-tier teams that dominate all the rest, and normal, causal players can't breathe or play without getting stomped.

I'm not saying team play is bad.

I'm saying a local high school football team can't play against all-starts all the time.

We need to switch from units to larger faction-level organisation. So the amazing veteran players spread out across multiple teams..

But this is all pointless anyway.. game is on maintenance mode, there will be no major changes added.. so.. yeah..

Moo point.

This anti unit nonsense has been around as long as the game.

Can't or shouldn't force people to not be able to play with their friends, it's really stupid to suggest otherwise.

[Khobai]

PhoenixFire55, on 27 August 2019 - 12:23 AM, said:

Yeah, just keep that in mind for when somebody sets your house on fire, that it was you who decided to exit it, that it was your own decision and thus you are solely responsible.

Not really a good analogy since MWO hardly qualifies as a life or death situation.

The decision to quit was definitely theirs. They were not forced under threat of death to leave MWO.

Now is it PGIs fault that people chose to leave? Absolutely But it was ultimately still their choice. Their agency wasnt stripped from them. Some people also chose to stay. And the people who stayed certainly werent burnt alive.

Feral Clown, on 28 August 2019 - 11:57 PM, said:

This anti unit nonsense has been around as long as the game.

Can't or shouldn't force people to not be able to play with their friends, it's really stupid to suggest otherwise.

Correct.

But the fact other games have units without the anti-unit nonsense says a lot.

The way units were implemented in MWO definitely causes issues for casual players. To deny that entirely is just being ignorant. Other games make sure that units and pugs never have to play eachother.

Should people be able to play with their friends? Absolutely. But should a solo player be forced to play against you and your friends? Absolutely not. That was one of the biggest reasons faction warfare failed miserably. Because it didnt account for the fact that 90% of players were pugs.

Edited by Khobai, 29 August 2019 - 12:19 AM.

[Feral Clown]

Khobai, on 29 August 2019 - 12:01 AM, said:

Not really a good analogy since MWO hardly qualifies as a life or death situation.

The decision to quit was definitely theirs. They were not forced under threat of death to leave MWO.

The people who stayed certainly were not burned alive.



Correct.

But the fact other games have units without the anti-unit nonsense says a lot.

The way units were implemented in MWO definitely causes issues for casual players. To deny that entirely is just being ignorant. Other games make sure that units and pugs never have to play eachother.

Should people be able to play with their friends? Absolutely. But should a solo player be forced to play against you and your friends? Absolutely not. That was one of the biggest reasons faction warfare failed miserably. Because it didnt account for the fact that 90% of players were pugs.

Not talking about other theoretical games.

Units have caused issues, and casual players have caused issues.

The whining and crying of terribads resulting in killing off gauss/ppc poptart and overall nerfing of the playstyle is a prime example of casuals causing issues.

Back when we had a relatively healthy population, PGI also implemented a split queue in CW that was awful. Should have had a solo only queue, and a unit queue without restrictions. That you couldn't join a group and drop in CW without creating or being a part of a unit is an example of not thinking a design through.

When population was better group queue wasn't that bad for most. Even when I was really bad I still had fun dropping with other bads in the unit I was in. Tier system being broken though, meant even though I was a terrible tier one, with the rest of the guys I played with, we'd end up seeing EmP in group queue. Getting stomped every so often wasn't that big of a deal. Population made it a big deal.

Still group queue and CW are designed and centered around groups/units as it absolutely should be. Casual players always have quick play which is designed for them.

*90% of the players as far as CW is concerned is BS.

Edited by Feral Clown, 29 August 2019 - 12:17 AM.

[Khobai]

Feral Clown, on 29 August 2019 - 12:15 AM, said:

The whining and crying of terribads resulting in killing off gauss/ppc poptart and overall nerfing of the playstyle is a prime example of casuals causing issues.

Typical elitest BS. If 90% of people are complaining about what 10% of people are doing its the 90% that are in the right. Getting rid of poptarting was 100% the right decision.

Feral Clown, on 29 August 2019 - 12:15 AM, said:

PGI also implemented a split queue in CW that was awful.

Again split queues was 100% the right decision. Its what other games do and it works fine. It was the way that PGI implemented split queue that was awful. Because when they implemented split queues we still had 10 different factions split between dozens of fronts instead of only having the 2 factions and one front they shouldve had. There was also no release valve that would allow groups and pugs to play eachother as a last resort if neither could find matches.

They created way too many buckets and couldnt fill them all. Of course that didnt work. Had they done split queues but also significantly reduced the number of buckets it absolutely couldve worked.

Feral Clown, on 29 August 2019 - 12:15 AM, said:

Still group queue and CW are designed and centered around groups/units as it absolutely should be. Casual players always have quick play which is designed for them.

I disagree with the idea that CW should only be for groups/units. Why would you only design your endgame content for a minority of your players? If PGI was really designing CW only for groups/units then they shouldve anticipated it was going to fail. PGI posted statistics once and solo players made up 90% of players. So why would you exclude 90% of players from CW and think that could ever work? CW not being designed with PUGs in mind is precisely why it failed. Same with Solaris, solaris was very much not designed for pugs, so of course it failed.

Whether you think pugs are unskilled potatos or not is entirely irrelevant. All thats relevant is the fact pugs make up the widest crossection of players by a HUGE margin. When game developers arnt doing everything they can to keep their widest crossection of players happy the game is inevitably going to decline. Not keeping PUGs happy is the #1 reason this game is in the state its in now.

Edited by Khobai, 29 August 2019 - 12:49 AM.

[Feral Clown]

Khobai, on 29 August 2019 - 12:22 AM, said:

Typical elitest BS. If 90% of people are complaining about what 10% of people are doing its the 90% that are in the right. Getting rid of poptarting was 100% the right decision.



Again split queues was100% the right decision. Its what other games do and it works fine. It was the way that they implemented it that was awful. Because when they implemented split queues we still had 10 different factions instead of only having the 2 factions they shouldve had. There was also no release valve that would allow groups and pugs to play eachother as a last resort if neither could find matches.

They created way too many buckets and couldnt fill them all. Of course that didnt work.

You have no evidence that the split as far as poptarting goes anywhere near approached 90% of the player base to 10%. Those number are coming out of your ***. On top of that we now have skill less cancer eagles dumping out 99 damage alpha's it fine....

Getting rid of poptarting was PGI caving in and doing their usual overly heavy handed way of dealing with things. Eliminating an entire style from the game was 100% not the right answer and if you can't see that, and appreciate it going too far there is no help for you and it speaks to the lack of intelligence you display regularly.

You are also skipping the point of how bad their implementation was. You only added the horrendous multi bucket problem in with it. The very design was bad. It absolutely should have been a pug only queue, and a group queue that wasn't dependent on a player being in a unit.

Furthermore single players should have been able to choose to drop in either queue, not doing so would be incredibly dumb and make it harder for people to meet and join units.

Edited by Feral Clown, 29 August 2019 - 12:41 AM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

PGI kills the game step by step since 2015...CW, Long Tom ,rescaling ,CW events ,Weaponbalancing (or push for short Time the new -Buy a mech),Solaris, New Maps...and now ,you can wait 3 Hours in CW and nothing match

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 29 August 2019 - 03:21 AM.

[Khobai]

Feral Clown, on 29 August 2019 - 12:38 AM, said:

You have no evidence that the split as far as poptarting goes anywhere near approached 90% of the player base to 10%. Those number are coming out of your ***. On top of that we now have skill less cancer eagles dumping out 99 damage alpha's it fine....

Getting rid of poptarting was PGI caving in and doing their usual overly heavy handed way of dealing with things. Eliminating an entire style from the game was 100% not the right answer and if you can't see that, and appreciate it going too far there is no help for you and it speaks to the lack of intelligence you display regularly.

You are also skipping the point of how bad their implementation was. You only added the horrendous multi bucket problem in with it. The very design was bad. It absolutely should have been a pug only queue, and a group queue that wasn't dependent on a player being in a unit.

Furthermore single players should have been able to choose to drop in either queue, not doing so would be incredibly dumb and make it harder for people to meet and join units.

It was just an example it wasnt meant to be taken literally. Regardless of what the actual numbers were the fact is more people wanted poptarting gone than wanted it to stay. PGI sided with the majority.

Poptarting was absolutely toxic for the game and yes it was 100% the right answer to eliminate it as the dominant meta.The biggest issue with poptarting was that the best counter to poptarting was to poptart yourself which made it that much more stupid. You had entire teams just hiding behind cover and poptarting the entire game it was miserable for anyone that didnt want to poptart. Good riddance to that BS.

Also I dont know where youre getting this nonsense from that the playstyle was eliminated. You can still jumpsnipe with dual CERPPC builds. The playstyle still exists its just not completely dominant anymore and thats fine.

Also im not sure what the cancer eagle has to do with poptarting. Youre trying to use the existence of one broken thing as justification for why something else that was broken should be allowed again? Nothing broken should exist in the game. Period. PGI needs to remove all of it.

Edited by Khobai, 29 August 2019 - 03:50 AM.

[Feral Clown]

Khobai, on 29 August 2019 - 03:25 AM, said:

It was just an example it wasnt meant to be taken literally. Regardless of what the actual numbers were the fact is more people wanted poptarting gone than wanted it to stay. PGI sided with the majority.

Poptarting was absolutely toxic for the game and yes it was 100% the right answer to eliminate it as the dominant meta.The biggest issue with poptarting was that the best counter to poptarting was to poptart yourself which made it that much more stupid. You had entire teams just hiding behind cover and poptarting the entire game it was miserable for anyone that didnt want to poptart. Good riddance to that BS.

Also I dont know where youre getting this nonsense from that the playstyle was eliminated. You can still jumpsnipe with dual CERPPC builds. The playstyle still exists its just not completely dominant anymore and thats fine.

Also im not sure what the cancer eagle has to do with poptarting. Youre trying to use the existence of one broken thing as justification for why something else that was broken should be allowed again? Nothing broken should exist in the game. Period. PGI needs to remove all of it.

You don't understand a great deal of things.

That you don't understand what the Vapour Eagle has to do with poptarting is a prime example of this. That you don't get that poptarting even with 2 ppc's has been repeatedly nerfed making it only effective in the hands of someone really good is another example.

That we have dual heavy gauss that is still in game, and yet we continue to not be able to fire a combination of three gauss/ppc and have ATM cancer on top of that is absurd.

You also continually default to the potato majority. For a game to be good you don't balance it around it's worst players, that's not elitism it's common sense which is something you have repeatedly displayed that you have none of. Also calling poptarting itself toxic is really, really stupid.

[Tarl Cabot]

Quote

Poptarting was absolutely toxic for the game and yes it was 100% the right answer to eliminate it as the dominant meta.The biggest issue with poptarting was that the best counter to poptarting was to poptart yourself which made it that much more stupid. You had entire teams just hiding behind cover and poptarting the entire game it was miserable for anyone that didnt want to poptart. Good riddance to that BS.

Poptarting in its original form had several issues, and many did agree on those issues. And people are more likely to chime in on a negative effect than a positive effect.. that is human nature.. Parades vs riots.... Sightseers vs mobs..And when PGI has a bone, they will not let it go til it has been split, crusted, chewed and shat out.

• Only needed 1 JJ. Additional JJ added a little something but the biggest effect was the major boost that 1st JJ gave.
  
• Gravity - High Gravity - Jumpers coming down too quickly.
  
• PGI allowed it to go on for TOO long without even touching it the JJ stats, that was the cancer. But once it was hit with the nerf bat a few times, JJ meant nothing for heavy/assault., even when All available JJs were being used
  
• Originally only one assault w/JJ, the Highlander, then followed by the Victor.. Other contenders were Cataphract and Catapult. Some of their variant across 4 mechs classes.
  
• Max dmg... 35mg 1 GR and 2 PPC/ERPPC
  
• Slow arse assaults - Atlases, Stalkers, Awesome, later Banshee and Battlemaster. Primarily the 1st two pilots weeping cause they did not know how to use cover, STD engines and loaded for brawling. And Highlander/Victors did not even have high mounted weapons....
  
• For those who most of the "nerfing" happened right before Clans were introduced.
  
• Charge up added to Gauss Rifles, Velocity changed for PPCs and ranges changes from 3x baseline to 2x baseline for most ballistics.
  
• Khobai has been that way since inception...

[GeminiWolf]

Khobai, on 29 August 2019 - 03:25 AM, said:

It was just an example it wasnt meant to be taken literally. Regardless of what the actual numbers were the fact is more people wanted poptarting gone than wanted it to stay. PGI sided with the majority.

Poptarting was absolutely toxic for the game and yes it was 100% the right answer to eliminate it as the dominant meta.The biggest issue with poptarting was that the best counter to poptarting was to poptart yourself which made it that much more stupid. You had entire teams just hiding behind cover and poptarting the entire game it was miserable for anyone that didnt want to poptart. Good riddance to that BS.

Also I dont know where youre getting this nonsense from that the playstyle was eliminated. You can still jumpsnipe with dual CERPPC builds. The playstyle still exists its just not completely dominant anymore and thats fine.

Also im not sure what the cancer eagle has to do with poptarting. Youre trying to use the existence of one broken thing as justification for why something else that was broken should be allowed again? Nothing broken should exist in the game. Period. PGI needs to remove all of it.

I do recall back in the day when someone used the Poptart meta it most of the time was an instant kill or damaged you so much that the next hit you took killed you. I remember getting insta killed in Assaults when the Dual PPC Guass poptart was a thing.

Feral Clown, on 29 August 2019 - 01:08 PM, said:

You don't understand a great deal of things.

That you don't understand what the Vapour Eagle has to do with poptarting is a prime example of this. That you don't get that poptarting even with 2 ppc's has been repeatedly nerfed making it only effective in the hands of someone really good is another example.

That we have dual heavy gauss that is still in game, and yet we continue to not be able to fire a combination of three gauss/ppc and have ATM cancer on top of that is absurd.

You also continually default to the potato majority. For a game to be good you don't balance it around it's worst players, that's not elitism it's common sense which is something you have repeatedly displayed that you have none of. Also calling poptarting itself toxic is really, really stupid.

"That you don't get that poptarting even with 2 ppc's has been repeatedly nerfed making it only effective in the hands of someone really good is another example."

So Im not good by any stretch of the imagination but by Dual Heavy PPC Poptarting Blackjack does well.

[Feral Clown]

GeminiWolf, on 29 August 2019 - 04:15 PM, said:

I do recall back in the day when someone used the Poptart meta it most of the time was an instant kill or damaged you so much that the next hit you took killed you. I remember getting insta killed in Assaults when the Dual PPC Guass poptart was a thing.


"That you don't get that poptarting even with 2 ppc's has been repeatedly nerfed making it only effective in the hands of someone really good is another example."

So Im not good by any stretch of the imagination but by Dual Heavy PPC Poptarting Blackjack does well.

I agree that the Blackjack does that well. It's fun to make it work, and it is strong. It is a very vulnerable mech though and it isn't something you can reliably be off on your own, you're dependent on your team for support. It's also an outlier with strong quirks, jj's and it's a pretty small mech. That you can't pull it off reliably with many other chassis is why I think it highlights a problem.

[Mystere]

Just to intercede here ...

Feral Clown, on 29 August 2019 - 12:15 AM, said:

Casual players always have quick play which is designed for them.

QP was originally never meant to be THE GAME. It was merely supposed to be just a filler until the real game -- COMMUNITY WARFARE -- was released.

Well, the rest is history.

Edited by Mystere, 29 August 2019 - 05:01 PM.

[Mystere]

Khobai, on 29 August 2019 - 03:25 AM, said:

It was just an example it wasnt meant to be taken literally. Regardless of what the actual numbers were the fact is more people wanted poptarting gone than wanted it to stay. PGI sided with the majority.

Poptarting was absolutely toxic for the game and yes it was 100% the right answer to eliminate it as the dominant meta.The biggest issue with poptarting was that the best counter to poptarting was to poptart yourself which made it that much more stupid. You had entire teams just hiding behind cover and poptarting the entire game it was miserable for anyone that didnt want to poptart. Good riddance to that BS.

Also I dont know where youre getting this nonsense from that the playstyle was eliminated. You can still jumpsnipe with dual CERPPC builds. The playstyle still exists its just not completely dominant anymore and thats fine.

Also im not sure what the cancer eagle has to do with poptarting. Youre trying to use the existence of one broken thing as justification for why something else that was broken should be allowed again? Nothing broken should exist in the game. Period. PGI needs to remove all of it.

Poptarting could have been dealt with by giving jump jets a forward vector -- and only a forward vector. They decided to destroy JJs instead, among other things.

[GeminiWolf]

Mystere, on 29 August 2019 - 05:01 PM, said:

Just to intercede here ...



QP was originally never meant to be THE GAME. It was merely supposed to be just a filler until the real game -- COMMUNITY WARFARE -- was released.

Well, the rest is history.

Yep, I have said it before and will say it until the end....Community Warfare should be what you log into for matches...its how Battletech 2000 was and I loved it. Remove Quick Play and separate grouped players from solo qued players, but all have a factor in how the map moves.