406 replies to this topic

[PhoenixFire55]

Willard Phule, on 30 October 2019 - 09:39 AM, said:

I get how the matchmaker loosens up over time to keep matches going, but seriously? For this to happen as regularly as it does, something in the system is broken. Either the whole PSR/ELO thing or the matchmaker itself. My money is on the matchmaker, since it's never worked before.

I don't get it why are we going over this AGAIN? ... It is a well know fact that PSR is broken by design. PGI can't understand the necessity of a symmetric gain/loss for a skill metric. Given that does anyone really expects them to be able to code a matchmaker? ... LOL. Preposterous.

[justcallme A S H]

Mystere, on 30 October 2019 - 08:09 AM, said:

I will not be so quick on that point if I were you.

You have heard of slow learners, right? I've seen more than enough of those folks eventually better the "fast ones" to know you are mistaken.

When you have sub 200 average match score.

Which is below the ENTIRE PLAYER BASE average... And you've made it into Tier 1, that sir, is nothing to do with being a slow learner. It means you're still bad and all you did was mass games and make Tier 1. You haven't actually learnt or improved to a level above 'below average'.

[justcallme A S H]

GuardDogg, on 30 October 2019 - 08:58 AM, said:

Their is personal life to consider (Job, family, health (hospitalized or family member hospitalized), and more), and how other play differently. Also, computer requirements. Some go away, and play something else, then come back. Some do not have top PC's. Their is a lot of factors to consider how they move up the ladder. It is called life.

All of that is utterly irrelevant.

I played with 25-30FPS for 2 years. Only in mid 2018 did I upgrade PC and get 90FPS+.

So again, all you're doing here is trying to come up with justification for why you think you should be in Tier 1. End of the day your average match score is below the average if the ENTIRE PLAYERBASE. If PSR was working properly, that would mean you should be in Tier 4 and never move higher unless you actually improve.

Massing 17,000 games does not equal improvement. In fact after 17,000 games if you're average score is still below that median if the player base then you really aren't good at the game. And that's totally OK to be bad at a game, not having a go at you at all here. The issue I have is that extremely bad players have been allowed into games where by them simply joining it has had a detrimental impact to everyone in that matches experience because they have no reason being there as they should never have been let out if Tier 4.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 30 October 2019 - 01:57 PM.

[PhoenixFire55]

justcallme A S H, on 30 October 2019 - 01:55 PM, said:

The issue I have is that extremely bad players have been allowed into games where by them simply joining it has had a detrimental impact to everyone in that matches experience because they have no reason being there as they should never have been let out if Tier 4.

Its not just being allowed there. Its being fooled by that shiny tier-1-I-know-it-all badge AND allowed there. A bad player who has no clue sees that he advances in tiers, which to him quite logically means that he does things right. And since it actually takes a long time when you are bad it completes the perfect illusion of hard earned T1.

[justcallme A S H]

PhoenixFire55, on 30 October 2019 - 02:14 PM, said:

Its not just being allowed there. Its being fooled by that shiny tier-1-I-know-it-all badge AND allowed there. A bad player who has no clue sees that he advances in tiers, which to him quite logically means that he does things right. And since it actually takes a long time when you are bad it completes the perfect illusion of hard earned T1.

Yeah that too. It's a big issue

Giving the player some sort of affirmation or indication they are "doing good" or "getting better" by rising in Tier when in actual fact they aren't at all.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 30 October 2019 - 02:29 PM.

[Red Potato Standing By]

Not really the players fault though I am unfortunately in tier 2 when yeah I should be at most tier 4. I am just terrible at video games in general and trust me I have no illusions of being any good..lol. They really should increase the penalty for getting low match scores whether you win or lose( even higher when you lose). Cause trust me it isn’t as much fun for me either when I get matched up with and against good players ( though I guess it is nice to be able to spectate players that you know are higher up in ability so you can see what they do).

[slide]

The whole advance to T1 just by playing enough is at it's core complete ********. It has in fact ruined my enjoyment of the game and is some of the reason why I have basically stopped playing.

Playing at T1 with the builds you have to take and the level of skill you need to compete with, is to me fundamentally not Mechwarrior, it is also not fun. To put that in context I have actually really enjoyed the few times I have managed to play stock mech only matches, the pace is slower, mistakes aren't punished as hard etc. Having to have the mechs with the right (or best) hit boxes, the best possible alpha within the ghost heat limitations (combining to make a super weapon). All of this is anathema to my vision of MW which should be a battle of attrition with the odd lucky shot as opposed to what we have at higher levels which is basically mechs which can 1 or 2 shot the enemy. And no, I don't want to learn to play like that so the game is effectively ruined for me.

I have always professed that I am an average player, I recently hit T1 in the my last spate of play although I could have done it long ago if I even bothered to play QP, but that is irrelevant because I should really be in T3 with other T3 players. My long term win/loss has always been around 1-1.1, like wise for K/D. I am Mister average.

The Tier system was obviously designed to give the player a sense of progression. What it actually achieved was to piss the entire player base off, by making every one, skilled or not have to play against opposition totally unsuited to their skill level.

At this point though the pop is so low that MM basically fails to do anything to balance games anyway so it's kinda moot.

[GuardDogg]

So, if your personal life gets in the way, your not allowed be in T1? Full BS

Edited by GuardDogg, 30 October 2019 - 04:47 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

GuardDogg, on 30 October 2019 - 04:44 PM, said:

So, if your personal life gets in the way, your not allowed be in T1? Full BS

Make any excuse up you want for poor in-game performance. End of the day it doesn't alter the outcome or the fact PSR is broken. Given it has been clearly explained a half dozen times now, I think you're just deliberately chosing to be obtuse here.

If PSR was as a proper skill based system you should not be in Tier 1 with 180 AvgMS, ever.

The playbase average score is 220-23 AvgMS. That should be Tier 3. Thus below ~210 AvgMS should be Tier 4.

I know you think you have "earned" it, but in any other game with a MM that actually works based on in-game performance, you would not be in the "Top" Tier.

I mean surely it is no fun for you to be doing 150-200 damage and getting slaughtered by better players? I mean it's no fun for me either to effectively be shooting at a NPC who doesn't move, twist, use cover or fire back with any accuracy.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 30 October 2019 - 05:01 PM.

[Mystere]

justcallme A S H, on 30 October 2019 - 01:50 PM, said:

When you have sub 200 average match score.

Which is below the ENTIRE PLAYER BASE average... And you've made it into Tier 1, that sir, is nothing to do with being a slow learner. It means you're still bad and all you did was mass games and make Tier 1. You haven't actually learnt or improved to a level above 'below average'.

Where did that "sub 200 average match score" come from in the chain of conversions?

Edited by Mystere, 30 October 2019 - 06:32 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Mystere, on 30 October 2019 - 08:09 AM, said:

I will not be so quick on that point if I were you.

You have heard of slow learners, right? I've seen more than enough of those folks eventually better the "fast ones" to know you are mistaken.

Yes, there are people like that. Conversely, there are also players who start good and then plateau early. Either way, though, the way the system works still indicates how well you know how to play the game.

If it took you years to get into T1, you were either less than mediocre for years and then suddenly got gud or you were mediocre the entire time and floated your way in because the system is rigged.

If you got into Tier 1 early and then got passed to the point where you are less then mediocre, the system will drop you back in tier. You cannot get into Tier 1 quickly by being mediocre through any means other than having not-mediocre players pull you up in group play.

GuardDogg, on 30 October 2019 - 12:10 AM, said:

^^^^ That doesn't make sense. "Players who were able to get into Tier 1 quickly know far more of the game than people who took 2 to 3 years to get there ever will....."

It makes perfect sense. If you can't figure out how to consistently get 300+ match score in a game after 3 years of playing, do you really think you know more about how to play the game than the guy who can do that or better nearly every match after only 3 days? Nope. The guy who can consistently pull those scores is better at building his 'Mech, positioning his 'Mech, making his shots count, managing his heat, etc. than the guy who struggles to make those scores. The struggle of the player performing worse has ZERO inherent value.

[Kroete]

GuardDogg, on 30 October 2019 - 04:44 PM, said:

So, if your personal life gets in the way, your not allowed be in T1? Full BS

You are allowed to be level 5 (tier 1) like every player who gets enough xp.

I have an around an average matchscore and i am put against players with double the matchscore,
thats not much fun.
Its also no fun to be put against players who cant move and shoot together.
I want even matches ...

But its too late for this, not enough players left,
even with only 3 tiers, the upper and lower tier will have very long waittimes.

Y E O N N E, on 30 October 2019 - 06:35 PM, said:

It makes perfect sense. If you can't figure out how to consistently get 300+ match score in a game after 3 years of playing, do you really think you know more about how to play the game than the guy who can do that or better nearly every match after only 3 days? Nope. The guy who can consistently pull those scores is better at building his 'Mech, positioning his 'Mech, making his shots count, managing his heat, etc. than the guy who struggles to make those scores. The struggle of the player performing worse has ZERO inherent value.

Knowledge is not all, you can parrot metamechs and follow a leader, stand where you told and shoot where you commanded, not much brain involved, but some scores are sure.
But there is no nanny how does the shooting for you if you are old (slow), too fast (adhs), disabled or what ever.

Edited by Kroete, 30 October 2019 - 07:00 PM.

[Mystere]

Y E O N N E, on 30 October 2019 - 06:35 PM, said:

Yes, there are people like that.

Which was the one and only point I was driving at.

[Y E O N N E]

Mystere, on 30 October 2019 - 06:40 PM, said:

Which was the one and only point I was driving at.

While ignoring its irrelevance to the conversation at hand.

[Mystere]

Y E O N N E, on 30 October 2019 - 06:42 PM, said:

While ignoring its irrelevance to the conversation at hand.

It is not entirely irrelevant, if you had thought about it for more than just 2 minutes.

Edited by Mystere, 30 October 2019 - 06:45 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Mystere, on 30 October 2019 - 06:44 PM, said:

It is not entirely irrelevant, if you had thought about it for more than just 2 minutes.

It's entirety irrelevant.

[Y E O N N E]

Mystere, on 30 October 2019 - 06:44 PM, said:

It is not entirely irrelevant, if you had thought about it for more than just 2 minutes.

It is, if you had thought about it for more than 30 seconds.

[Scout Derek]

End of the day and to sum it up in one sentence;

Tiers are trash, tiers are "experience bar", and have no bearing on people's skill that they are lead to believe, MM needs to be revamped but it will never happen because PGI is too focused on delivering their rather late product called sandwich 5: momma mia

[FRAGTAST1C]

GuardDogg, on 30 October 2019 - 04:44 PM, said:

So, if your personal life gets in the way, your not allowed be in T1? Full BS

Why do you want to be in Teir 1, though? I don't hear any CEOs saying, "What? 'Cause of my personal life making it unable for me to meet CEOs of other companies to bring in new projects for my company, I SHOULDN'T BE A CEO? FULL BS".

See? It makes no sense.

[GuardDogg]

Yeah, I just can imagine all the 24 players (2 teams) who make a match score of 500+ nearly every round. The constant bickering over the head set. Will be over the top like crazy, wow. Their will be some making a match score in the 200's, and then yelling away.

Edited by GuardDogg, 31 October 2019 - 12:18 AM.