406 replies to this topic

[GuardDogg]

Xiphias, on 31 October 2019 - 11:02 AM, said:

When you're stuck resorting to ad hominem and non sequitur it means you really don't have a leg to stand on.

The fact of the matter is that the Tier system is used for matchmaking, the goal of matchmaking is to match similarly skilled players. As such Tier should be based on skill and based on your skill level you (and many others) shouldn't be Tier 1. It's that simple and there's really not a debate to be had.

If you could just admit that you were wrong instead of constantly trying to have the last word you'd find you'd get a more positive response. Instead you seem to be incapable of accepting your own shortcomings and instead project all kinds of unfounded motives and conditions on the people that disagree with you. Can your ego really just not accept that you were wrong on something, thank those that corrected you on your misconception, and just move on with your life?

Admit I was wrong? About what? Man, the ignorance. Very sad angry people, the bickering (people shouldn't be in T1, why this, why that....wha...wha...). You guys need a life of positives. Nothing all you can do, is live, enjoy life, what it is. Nothing is going to change. Go get hugs ffs, some sunshine, sunsets with your wife, girlfriends, or kids, family. Can imagine if the tier system was fixed, perfect. And all you guys that are saying only certain people should be in T1, playing against each other. You guys will uninstall the next day, in pure anger.

Edited by GuardDogg, 31 October 2019 - 12:22 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

Well... Someone's point was just proven...

[dario03]

GuardDogg, on 31 October 2019 - 12:09 PM, said:

Admit I was wrong? About what? Man, the ignorance. Very sad angry people, the bickering (people shouldn't be in T1, why this, why that....wha...wha...). You guys need a life of positives. Nothing all you can do, is live, enjoy life, what it is. Nothing is going to change. Go get hugs ffs, some sunshine, sunsets with your wife, girlfriends, or kids, family. Can imagine if the tier system was fixed, perfect. And all you guys that are saying only certain people should be in T1, playing against each other. You guys will uninstall the next day, in pure anger.

What would be wrong with a better ranking system? And even if T1 was changed to just higher scoring players that wouldn't mean they would only play each other. The system could still put multiple tiers together, it would just have a better criteria for distributing players across the teams to make more even matches.

[GuardDogg]

dario03, on 31 October 2019 - 01:13 PM, said:

What would be wrong with a better ranking system? And even if T1 was changed to just higher scoring players that wouldn't mean they would only play each other. The system could still put multiple tiers together, it would just have a better criteria for distributing players across the teams to make more even matches.

Oh c'mon. Only 1 or 2 would make a match score of 500+. and others in the 300s, or less. Wouldn't be any different, than it is now. Then the massive bickering on headsets.

[dario03]

GuardDogg, on 31 October 2019 - 01:17 PM, said:

Oh c'mon. Only 1 or 2 would make a match score of 500+. and others in the 300s, or less. Wouldn't be any different, than it is now. Then the massive bickering on headsets.

How did you come to that conclusion?
Have you ever played a game (any game, sport, video, whatever) that had completely lopsided teams but then shuffled the teams and then had close matches? Because that's what a better ranking system could do. Going by what we know of the MM it is entirely possible to get a team that has a much higher avgms than the other and ends in a lopsided game. If the ranking system was more score based then that would be less likely to happen. Even if you use the exact same 24 players you can make matches more even.

[GuardDogg]

dario03, on 31 October 2019 - 01:23 PM, said:

How did you come to that conclusion?
Have you ever played a game (any game, sport, video, whatever) that had completely lopsided teams but then shuffled the teams and then had close matches? Because that's what a better ranking system could do. Going by what we know of the MM it is entirely possible to get a team that has a much higher avgms than the other and ends in a lopsided game. If the ranking system was more score based then that would be less likely to happen. Even if you use the exact same 24 players you can make matches more even.

So, you are saying, 24 players are going to make damage scores of 400+ and match scores of 400 - 500+ per round. And 12-11 or 11-12. Not going to happen. You will eventually get some falling through the cracks.

Edited by GuardDogg, 31 October 2019 - 01:33 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

GuardDogg, on 31 October 2019 - 12:09 PM, said:

Admit I was wrong? About what? Man, the ignorance. Very sad angry people, the bickering (people shouldn't be in T1, why this, why that....wha...wha...). You guys need a life of positives. Nothing all you can do, is live, enjoy life, what it is. Nothing is going to change. Go get hugs ffs, some sunshine, sunsets with your wife, girlfriends, or kids, family. Can imagine if the tier system was fixed, perfect. And all you guys that are saying only certain people should be in T1, playing against each other. You guys will uninstall the next day, in pure anger.

You just proved Xiphas's point without any shadow of a doubt.

GuardDogg, on 31 October 2019 - 01:17 PM, said:

Oh c'mon. Only 1 or 2 would make a match score of 500+. and others in the 300s, or less. Wouldn't be any different, than it is now. Then the massive bickering on headsets.

Actually no. There is a decent distribution of players over 300. 1,000 as it currently stands (not including inactive players).

And there is some 7,000+ that are ABOVE the average of 220 AvgMS.

Do you now start to undertstand that with 180 AvgMS, you are in the bottom 30% of the playerbase and thus should have no place in Tier 1?*

*that is of course if PSR was an actual skill based match maker.

[dario03]

GuardDogg, on 31 October 2019 - 01:26 PM, said:

So, you are saying, 24 players are going to make damage scores of 800+ and match scores of 400 - 500+ per round. Not gong to happen.

I didn't say that. I said the teams could be more evenly made.

I also asked you why having a better ranking system would be a bad thing.

[justcallme A S H]

GuardDogg, on 31 October 2019 - 01:26 PM, said:

So, you are saying, 24 players are going to make damage scores of 800+ and match scores of 400 - 500+ per round. And 12-11 or 11-12. Not going to happen.

Where did he say that? Oh that's right... dario didn't.

Whar dario said is there would be more EVEN matches. That is absolutely correct. If users like yourself were in Tier 4 where you belong - because you...

• Don't orso twist
  
• Hold aim very well
  
• Have any sense of map awareness
  
• Use extremely poor builds
  
• Don't use cover
  
• Barely put up 200dmg a match.

So thus in Tier 4 - where that behaviour is perfectly OK. Legit, go for your life. I'm absolutely behind that - because then you would no longer be having a negative impact on Tier 1-3 matches like you are now.

You've just gone on some wild tangent once again because you are well aware you're wrong but you'll continue to argue and clutch at straws forevermore.

[GuardDogg]

dario03, on 31 October 2019 - 01:29 PM, said:

I didn't say that. I said the teams could be more evenly made.

I also asked you why having a better ranking system would be a bad thing.

Will be impossible. I can not imagine a team 12 players each making a damage score of 300-400+ and match score of 400+. Some will have really bad damage/match scores, fall in anger to T3, and some will say.."oh he sucks, he went to T3, He is with GuardDog now." The rage on headsets will be so unreal, and the uninstalling.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

This guy is so adamant, he's the inspiration for Wolverine's reinforced skeleton.

[dario03]

GuardDogg, on 31 October 2019 - 01:41 PM, said:

Will be impossible. I can not imagine a team 12 players each making a damage score of 300-400+ and match score of 400+. Some will have really bad damage/match scores, fall in anger to T3, and some will say.."oh he sucks, he went to T3, He is with GuardDog now." The rage on headsets will be so unreal, and the uninstalling.

Well avgms probably wouldn't need to be 400+ to stay in T1. But sure some might fall, that's the point of a more score based system. If you start falling in score you move down a level, after a while with the MM not expecting you to do as well and thus giving you better team distribution you might get better scores and move back up. There wouldn't be anything wrong with players not being T1 all the time if they don't actually consistently do well. Tons of games don't just put players in the highest rank because they play a lot. And tons of games don't have such a upward bias or aversion to moving players down ranks. I've moved up and down in rank in other games plenty of times, I never uninstalled because of it.

[justcallme A S H]

GuardDogg, on 31 October 2019 - 01:41 PM, said:

Will be impossible. I can not imagine a team 12 players each making a damage score of 300-400+ and match score of 400+. Some will have really bad damage/match scores, fall in anger to T3, and some will say.."oh he sucks, he went to T3, He is with GuardDog now." The rage on headsets will be so unreal, and the uninstalling.

The pure fact of the matter here is this:

Just because you are not capable of it, does not mean that more capable players aren't.

There are approx 13,000 active players that are more capable than you. So yes, they can and will do it.

[GuardDogg]

dario03, on 31 October 2019 - 01:52 PM, said:

Well avgms probably wouldn't need to be 400+ to stay in T1. But sure some might fall, that's the point of a more score based system. If you start falling in score you move down a level, after a while with the MM not expecting you to do as well and thus giving you better team distribution you might get better scores and move back up. There wouldn't be anything wrong with players not being T1 all the time if they don't actually consistently do well.

Exactly. Furthermore, MWO is not like other games. In MWO, you only live once per round and the chance to get a good damage/match score. Each round is 15 minutes, but majority last about 3-4 minutes. Might get the odd 15 minute round. You know that. Just imagine all the people making the damage scores of 400+ now, playing against each other if the MM was perfect. Would be hell for them. The bickering, anger.

justcallme A S H, on 31 October 2019 - 01:56 PM, said:

The pure fact of the matter here is this:

Just because you are not capable of it, does not mean that more capable players aren't.

There are approx 13,000 active players that are more capable than you. So yes, they can and will do it.

C'mon Ash. be nice. I will never ever bring you down, or even a lesser player.

Edited by GuardDogg, 31 October 2019 - 02:02 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

I'm making an purely objective statement based on cold hard data that PGI provides.

The data and numbers that tell a very clear story cannot be argued.


You're trying to suggest something is there that isn't, again.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 31 October 2019 - 02:05 PM.

[GuardDogg]

justcallme A S H, on 31 October 2019 - 02:05 PM, said:

I'm making an purely objective statement based on cold hard data that PGI provides.

The data and numbers that tell a very clear story cannot be argued.


You're trying to suggest something is there that isn't, again.

I am not suggesting anything. MWO is what it is now. Nothing is going to change. And I am saying, what it would be like if MM was perfect, specially in MWO.

[dario03]

GuardDogg, on 31 October 2019 - 02:02 PM, said:

Exactly. Furthermore, MWO is not like other games. In MWO, you only live once per round and the chance to get a good damage/match score. Each round is 15 minutes, but majority last about 3-4 minutes. Might get the odd 15 minute round. You know that. Just imagine all the people making the damage scores of 400+ now, playing against each other if the MM was perfect. Would be hell for them. The bickering, anger.

Mwo isn't the only one life per round game. And plenty of high scoring players can have bad matches here and there, they still play. And they can play against only each other at times, look at comp. Some of the best matches I've played have been low scoring because it was comp. In comp you don't have to do absurd damage for it to be considered a great match because it is understood that you are player with and against similar skilled opponents. A lot of the crazy high damage games you see in qp is because of the MM and its ranking system setting up situations that lets a player farm damage.

Edited by dario03, 31 October 2019 - 02:15 PM.

[GuardDogg]

dario03, on 31 October 2019 - 02:14 PM, said:

...is because of the MM and its ranking system setting up situations that lets a player farm damage.

Ranking system? MWO doesn't have a ranking system.

[dario03]

GuardDogg, on 31 October 2019 - 02:20 PM, said:

Ranking system? MWO doesn't have a ranking system.

It barely has one, that's the problem.

[GuardDogg]

dario03, on 31 October 2019 - 02:22 PM, said:

It barely has one, that's the problem.

Would been nice. Since they are using Stats, would be a feature and balance. Would be in T3. I wouldn't want to be in T1 if MM was perfect. Would be pure hell of bickering.

Edited by GuardDogg, 31 October 2019 - 02:33 PM.