406 replies to this topic

[Red Potato Standing By]

Wow this thread is like the game, it is starting to nascar, keeps going in circles.. lol

[Mr Andersson]

GuardDogg, on 31 October 2019 - 02:02 PM, said:

... Just imagine all the people making the damage scores of 400+ now, playing against each other if the MM was perfect. Would be hell for them.

No, I imagine it would be a significant improvement over the current situation. When most of a team consists of players who know how to position themselves, one could actually start playing the game, without having to worry about garbage players running off to places they shouldn't be and throwing the match.

[GuardDogg]

Mr Andersson, on 31 October 2019 - 03:02 PM, said:

No, I imagine it would be a significant improvement over the current situation. When most of a team consists of players who know how to position themselves, one could actually start playing the game, without having to worry about garbage players running off to places they shouldn't be and throwing the match.

LMAO!!! You think? Go to center, only theta? and in domination, will be holding ground? Than nascar? You think their will be no bickering, anger? "No, go here", "no what are you doing?", "Why go there?", "look at your damage score compared to mine." It will be worse. Lots of disagreements. Do not be such a hypocrite on the problem. It is happening now, but would be very worse if MM was perfect.

[Horseman]

GuardDogg, on 30 October 2019 - 12:10 AM, said:

That doesn't make sense.
"Players who were able to get into Tier 1 quickly know far more of the game than people who took 2 to 3 years to get there ever will....."

The tier system is imbalanced towards increasing your rank - anyone who continues playing will continue to increase in tier given enough matches as evidenced by T1 containing players who are in the bottom 25-30% of the playerbase.
Players who do better in-game progress through the tier system faster than those who don't. Therefore, a quick rise through the tiers is an indicator of both skill and ability to utilize the game's mechanics.

You are thinking about experience, but skill and experience are separate. A skilled newcomer would be at some disadvantages due to lacking experience, but a player who remains low-skill despite having a lot of experience would be very unlikely to improve.

GuardDogg, on 30 October 2019 - 12:36 AM, said:

Like I said, some play differently. Those who couldn't care about stats and other thing. Only play for fun, and totally understand everything.

It doesn't matter if you care about the stats. The stats show if you care about your performance, and if you're capable of enough introspection to recognize - and improve on - your flaws.

GuardDogg, on 30 October 2019 - 01:18 AM, said:

We all play, earn our ways up differently. Imagine if we all played the same, earned up the same. Wouldn't be any fun. You earned it, others in T1 earned it. Some get to T1 differently than others. Some quicker and some a bit longer. But means nothing. Because the way we play, also personal life gets in the way. All in the fun.

As explained and evidenced multiple times before, the Tier system will increase a player's rank continuously unless that player is really abysmal or deliberately sabotages themselves and their team.

GuardDogg, on 30 October 2019 - 08:58 AM, said:

Their is personal life to consider (Job, family, health (hospitalized or family member hospitalized), and more), and how other play differently. Also, computer requirements. Some go away, and play something else, then come back. Some do not have top PC's. Their is a lot of factors to consider how they move up the ladder. It is called life.

Nothing to consider.
Your stats do not care about your personal life or your PC's specs, they're a pure expression of how you perform in the game, not how much time and/or money you've dumped into it.

GuardDogg, on 30 October 2019 - 04:44 PM, said:

So, if your personal life gets in the way, your not allowed be in T1? Full BS

Your personal life doesn't control how well you play when you have the time.
A player should be allowed to get a rank that is reflective of their performance compared to the rest of the player base.
If a player performs better than players of the same rank, they should increase in rank.
If a player performs worse than players of the same rank, they should fall in rank until.
It's as simple as that. In the end, the players should be matched primarily with others of comparable skill levels so that everyone has their fun with comparable teammates and opponents.

GuardDogg, on 31 October 2019 - 12:09 PM, said:

And all you guys that are saying only certain people should be in T1, playing against each other.

And then you wouldn't have to deal with them and they wouldn't have to deal with you. It's a win-win for both sides, no?

GuardDogg, on 31 October 2019 - 01:26 PM, said:

So, you are saying, 24 players are going to make damage scores of 400+ and match scores of 400 - 500+ per round. And 12-11 or 11-12. Not going to happen. You will eventually get some falling through the cracks.

Those damage scores and kills aren't going to happen for more practical reasons.
Yes, some would eventually de-tier... and then get right back up after they gained rank playing against bad players.

GuardDogg, on 31 October 2019 - 03:17 PM, said:

LMAO!!! You think? Go to center, only theta? and in domination, will be holding ground? Than nascar? You think their will be no bickering, anger? "No, go here", "no what are you doing?", "Why go there?", "look at your damage score compared to mine." It will be worse. Lots of disagreements. Do not be such a hypocrite on the problem. It is happening now, but would be very worse if MM was perfect.

While there would always be some disagreement, the most bickering I see in the game isn't from high-performing players.
The actual good players are able to maintain emotional distance from the game and are more concerned with improving their performance than boasting or padding their egos.
The loudest, most antagonistic ones are invariably bad performenrs who convinced themselves they're good in spite of facts.

[justcallme A S H]

GuardDogg, on 31 October 2019 - 03:17 PM, said:

LMAO!!! You think? Go to center, only theta? and in domination, will be holding ground? Than nascar? You think their will be no bickering, anger? "No, go here", "no what are you doing?", "Why go there?", "look at your damage score compared to mine." It will be worse. Lots of disagreements. Do not be such a hypocrite on the problem. It is happening now, but would be very worse if MM was perfect.

Given all you have is skilled players replying to you - telling you it would be better...

And all you are doing is doubling down on an incorrect point?

That is quite literally backing all of us up. Proving you really don't understand MWO, playerbase and gameplay.

[GuardDogg]

Why do you guys keep saying "You". When I reply, I am writing for everyone else, even yourself. Their been a couple replies in this thread, I wrote for myself.

[Mr Andersson]

GuardDogg, on 31 October 2019 - 03:17 PM, said:

LMAO!!! You think? Go to center, only theta? and in domination, will be holding ground? Than nascar? You think their will be no bickering, anger? "No, go here", "no what are you doing?", "Why go there?", "look at your damage score compared to mine." It will be worse. Lots of disagreements. Do not be such a hypocrite on the problem. It is happening now, but would be very worse if MM was perfect.

Good players understand not to nascar. The reason nascar happens is that there are too many bad players in tier 1. And guess what the reason for that is. That's correct, a flawed matchmaker.

You are making a lot of statements about top tier players, as if you understood even a fraction of the mentality that is needed to perform consistently in this game. Yet again and again you make it clear that you don't.

[Prototelis]

Nobody here is going to suddenly be bad because they get more even matches.

lol, wut even is this?

Edited by Prototelis, 31 October 2019 - 06:18 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

GuardDogg, on 31 October 2019 - 04:41 PM, said:

Why do you guys keep saying "You". When I reply, I am writing for everyone else, even yourself. Their been a couple replies in this thread, I wrote for myself.

Ah, you are not.

You are replying with your viewpoint, which to date, has been shown to be irrational and illogical over a dozen times so far.

This was always about you. Any thread that Tiers and low skill users making into Tier 1 - you're in them saying you should be there.
Fact is, you shouldn't.

[GuardDogg]

justcallme A S H, on 31 October 2019 - 07:19 PM, said:

Ah, you are not.

You are replying with your viewpoint, which to date, has been shown to be irrational and illogical over a dozen times so far.

This was always about you. Any thread that Tiers and low skill users making into Tier 1 - you're in them saying you should be there.
Fact is, you shouldn't.

Well sorry to burst your bubble. I was writing (speaking) for others, not myself. Only times was to defend. If thinking that I was writing for myself only. You are narrow minded. Open you mind/heart for others (not me) that have earned their way up with effort (took years) and made it to T1. Their is personal issues (Family, kids, life..etc) that get in the way. Unless you do not have a life (No kids, no family, no job, have no feelings for others only yourself..etc), then ya. You can make it to T1 no problem, and call your self a pro. Then yell at others, this person sucks, they are all this, that. Personal life can get in the way (example: a family member passes away, or a health issue) for many, and your saying..."Nope, they do not deserve to be in T1" because of all of a sudden they can not perform well. Then for sure you have no emotions, feelings for anyone.

Edited by GuardDogg, 31 October 2019 - 08:10 PM.

[Kroete]

GuardDogg, on 31 October 2019 - 01:41 PM, said:

Will be impossible. I can not imagine a team 12 players each making a damage score of 300-400+ and match score of 400+. Some will have really bad damage/match scores, fall in anger to T3, and some will say.."oh he sucks, he went to T3, He is with GuardDog now." The rage on headsets will be so unreal, and the uninstalling.

The average matchscrores on the higer players will go down for sure with a real matchmaker.
Put against even players means also no 1000+ damage farming from less skilled players and the need to kill fast,
wl and kd will also be more even then.

GuardDogg, on 31 October 2019 - 07:52 PM, said:

....and your saying..."Nope, they do not deserve to be in T1" because of all of a sudden they can not perform well. Then for sure you have no emotions, feelings for anyone.

Chill.
Some pages ago i mentioned that the term "tier" is missunderstanding,it should be "level" instead,
if he says you dont deserve it, than he talks about the system we should have, not the one we have.

If there would be any tiers (ranks), i should not be in the first as you should not be there,
but we dont have this system, we have tiers (level) and everyone who has enough xp should be tier 1 (level 5),
some took longer,some shorter, in the end it doesnt matter, if you had fun.

Edited by Kroete, 31 October 2019 - 08:32 PM.

[dario03]

GuardDogg, on 31 October 2019 - 07:52 PM, said:

Well sorry to burst your bubble. I was writing (speaking) for others, not myself. Only times was to defend. If thinking that I was writing for myself only. You are narrow minded. Open you mind/heart for others (not me) that have earned their way up with effort (took years) and made it to T1. Their is personal issues (Family, kids, life..etc) that get in the way. Unless you do not have a life (No kids, no family, no job, have no feelings for others only yourself..etc), then ya. You can make it to T1 no problem, and call your self a pro. Then yell at others, this person sucks, they are all this, that. Personal life can get in the way (example: a family member passes away, or a health issue) for many, and your saying..."Nope, they do not deserve to be in T1" because of all of a sudden they can not perform well. Then for sure you have no emotions, feelings for anyone.

We're talking about a rank in a video game match maker, its not like the world is going to end if it was made harder to get into T1. All that real world stuff should take priority over the game for the person with the issues, but that doesn't mean the rank system should assume everybody that is low scoring has those issues and just boost them up. So if they don't get into T1 because of those issues then so be it, its not like a boosted rank is going to help them in life.

[Vxheous]

GuardDogg, on 31 October 2019 - 01:41 PM, said:

Will be impossible. I can not imagine a team 12 players each making a damage score of 300-400+ and match score of 400+. Some will have really bad damage/match scores, fall in anger to T3, and some will say.."oh he sucks, he went to T3, He is with GuardDog now." The rage on headsets will be so unreal, and the uninstalling.

When we practice internally, it's 8vs8 with all 16 players fairly similar in skill level (as in, they're all considered the top of the top players in this game). There might be talk in between matches about what we can do better, etc, testing of strategies, but practice is far more fun/enjoyable than playing the public queue because everyone is competent. Yeah, individually, players might make a bad mistake and get nuked for very little damage that round, but as a whole, that doesn't happen over and over and over because it's not typically a skill mistake, more a failed plan mistake.

With a proper matchmaker, there would actually be less rage than there is now, because teams won't be down 2-3 players 1 minute into the match cause they just walked into the open and found the entire enemy team with their face.

GuardDogg, on 31 October 2019 - 07:52 PM, said:

Well sorry to burst your bubble. I was writing (speaking) for others, not myself. Only times was to defend. If thinking that I was writing for myself only. You are narrow minded. Open you mind/heart for others (not me) that have earned their way up with effort (took years) and made it to T1. Their is personal issues (Family, kids, life..etc) that get in the way. Unless you do not have a life (No kids, no family, no job, have no feelings for others only yourself..etc), then ya. You can make it to T1 no problem, and call your self a pro. Then yell at others, this person sucks, they are all this, that. Personal life can get in the way (example: a family member passes away, or a health issue) for many, and your saying..."Nope, they do not deserve to be in T1" because of all of a sudden they can not perform well. Then for sure you have no emotions, feelings for anyone.

There is so much wrong with everything you say here. Being good at this game has nothing to do with having no life like you insinuate. Everyone has real life things going on, it doesn't mean you can't be good at a game. EmP has players that have successful careers working in IT, restaurant business (ASH owns restaurants, well known fact), Medical professionals, some are full time college students, one is a retired force recon marine dealing with TBI (still works full time and takes courses), another just recently enlisted, another is about to have a baby, several of us are married with kids, etc. Our players age ranges from 20-40 (more than a few of us are mid 30s), in different phases of life, yet we are all good at this game. It is absolutely asinine to think that you have to have no life to be good at playing video games (especially this game).

Edited by Vxheous, 31 October 2019 - 09:35 PM.

[Xiphias]

GuardDogg, on 31 October 2019 - 12:09 PM, said:

Admit I was wrong? About what?

Would you like me to make you a list complete with references? I'll do it if that's what you want, though I doubt it's worth either of our time.

Let me flip this around for a moment. When was the last time you remember being wrong on the forums?

Quote

Man, the ignorance. Very sad angry people, the bickering (people shouldn't be in T1, why this, why that....wha...wha...).

This is a complete ad hominem. Please detail exactly what I'm ignorant about in this case? Your assumption that the people that disagree with you are "sad angry people", on what basis do you make that claim? On the fact that they disagree with you and are willing to call you out and argue with you? You've done as much bickering as anyone else in this thread. Are you one of these "sad angry people"? Are you just projecting your own feelings on others?

Or is it okay for you to claim to be an expert in how other people feel, but it's somehow unfair for other people to assume how you feel? It's a double standard and it's irrelevant to the discussion at hand anyway. Stick to the facts please.

Quote

You guys need a life of positives. Nothing all you can do, is live, enjoy life, what it is. Nothing is going to change. Go get hugs ffs, some sunshine, sunsets with your wife, girlfriends, or kids, family.

What do you know about my life? This is a completely baseless and condescending statement. I'm actually quite happy with my life and do plenty of stuff outside of MWO. Believe it or not, I don't really care because, again, it's irrelevant.

While we're on the topic of living life, over the same period of time you've played 4.56 times as many matches in MWO as I have. In April you played 1320 matches. Assuming 6 minutes a match that means on average you played 4h 24m every day for a month. That's a lot of time to spend just playing a game. Maybe you should take your own advice and enjoy life and get some sunshine. You're in no position to lecture me about my life outside of MWO.

Quote

Can imagine if the tier system was fixed, perfect. And all you guys that are saying only certain people should be in T1, playing against each other. You guys will uninstall the next day, in pure anger.

Yes, I can actually and it would be great for the people that are actually competitive and good. You don't seem to be able to grasp the fact that some people actually like to be challenged and to play with people on a similar level. Everybody can't be the best, if playing against people of my skill level meant that I lost more and scored less I'd be okay with it. Yes, there would the some toxic good players that would get mad, yes there would be even more players who think they are better than they are who would be mad when they lost and got pushed down.

What you are doing is projecting your own limited experience and opinions onto a whole group of people that you are not part of and whom you really don't understand. You know why you remember the bad ones? It's because they're the vocal ones. What you don't see are the hundreds (are there that many left these days?) who just quietly go about their business.

GuardDogg, on 31 October 2019 - 04:41 PM, said:

Why do you guys keep saying "You". When I reply, I am writing for everyone else, even yourself. Their been a couple replies in this thread, I wrote for myself.

It's incredibly arrogant of you to presume that you speak for everyone else. You don't speak for me and I don't want you to speak for me. You opinions are just that, you might think that what you are saying is for other people, but did you ever consider that those people might not agree with the words that you are putting in their mouths? If they want to speak up they are welcome to post here.

GuardDogg, on 31 October 2019 - 07:52 PM, said:

Well sorry to burst your bubble. I was writing (speaking) for others, not myself. Only times was to defend. If thinking that I was writing for myself only. You are narrow minded.

No, a recurring issue is that your communication skills are poor and you assume that everyone understands your point without putting the effort in to actually make it coherent. If people misunderstand what you write it's quite likely that you did a poor job communicating, rather than them being narrow minded.

Quote

Open you mind/heart for others (not me) that have earned their way up with effort (took years) and made it to T1. Their is personal issues (Family, kids, life..etc) that get in the way. Unless you do not have a life (No kids, no family, no job, have no feelings for others only yourself..etc), then ya. You can make it to T1 no problem, and call your self a pro. Then yell at others, this person sucks, they are all this, that. Personal life can get in the way (example: a family member passes away, or a health issue) for many, and your saying...

Stop stereotyping everyone who is good as this mental image you have of these players. It's inaccurate and offensive. At the end of the day some people are better at some things that others. It doesn't matter why, it's just reality. Sometimes no matter how hard you try you can't get something you want. People shouldn't fool themselves into having an inflated view of their abilities. They should accept an accurate picture of their skill and come to terms with it, regardless of the cause(s). I don't need to a participation trophy to feel good about myself.

I do in fact have family, friends, a life, etc. and I still disagree with your point. A real friend is someone who actually gives an honest opinion. I don't want the people around me to flatter me with false praise and I'm not going to do it to them either. I'll tell them honestly if they are good or bad at something and then I'll still be friends with them and if they want to improve I'll help them to. You can't improve until you realize that you have a problem.

Quote

"Nope, they do not deserve to be in T1" because of all of a sudden they can not perform well. Then for sure you have no emotions, feelings for anyone.

It should be (even if it currently isn't) a performance based metric. Those that cannot perform at the required level shouldn't be in that Tier, full stop. This is for everyone's benefit because it means that players get matched against players of similar skill so that no one is getting stomped.

Tier should be about an accurate representation of a player's skill, not a metric for self worth. If you or anyone else is getting emotionally invested in their Tier that means that they need to take a step away from the game and really consider what is important in life. I've been T1 for a long time, if I came back tomorrow and was averaging 200 MS I absolutely believe that I should go down in Tier because I wouldn't be performing at that level anymore. I wouldn't feel bad and I wouldn't expect anyone else to feel bad for me either.

This isn't real life, it's a game. Sure, if someone can't perform at their job because of issues that's something you have empathy for and try to help with. I wouldn't want to take away someone's livelihood. This is a game though. Ranks and Tiers are meaningless titles. Getting demoted from T1 to T5 means basically nothing in my life. If someone is putting a lot of self worth in that sort of thing their priorities are way out of whack.

Stop hiding behind other people. If you want to argue for yourself then at least be honest about it. These other people don't need you to argue for them and if anything you're doing more harm than good for any cause you are arguing.

[justcallme A S H]

GuardDogg, on 31 October 2019 - 07:52 PM, said:

Well sorry to burst your bubble. I was writing (speaking) for others, not myself.

You should stop that.

[GuardDogg]

justcallme A S H, on 31 October 2019 - 11:37 PM, said:

You should stop that.

Yeah, I am backing many others up (not all), and it is becoming tire some (those who have children, grandchildren, family, personal lives (called to a big job), disasters, health issues, etc.). But saying, sometimes, the greatness doesn't last forever in lives moments. Things will happen in life. One day your good at it, then one day, it is wtf? (life will get in the way) It happens to everyone. Then saying, "Nope, you do not belong in T1 because of these things, get out.). Wasting my time for many here. Smile, be happy, look at family members, and give them hugs (man hugs) for no reason. One day they might not be around or else. People deserve happiness, laughter, smiles. Not ignorance.
Here is some laughter (Dog, Lie Detector). You guys need a good laugh.

Edited by GuardDogg, 01 November 2019 - 03:19 AM.

[Gagis]

You are not going to have the last word on this. Stop trying.

The matchmaker is the biggest flaw in MWO, and fixing it is important enough to take seriously. It is the main thing that has reduced the number of players. Most other core aspect of the game are good as they are.

I'm firmly of the opinion we should have Elo ratings, and teams should be balanced based on team ratings that give extra weight to outliers instead of simple averages of their members.

Edited by Gagis, 01 November 2019 - 01:52 AM.

[GuardDogg]

Gagis, on 01 November 2019 - 01:47 AM, said:

You are not going to have the last word on this. Stop trying.

The matchmaker is the biggest flaw in MWO, and fixing it is important enough to take seriously. It is the main thing that has reduced the number of players. Most other core aspect of the game are good as they are.

I'm firmly of the opinion we should have Elo ratings, and teams should be balanced based on team ratings that give extra weight to outliers instead of simple averages of their members.

Exactly. The MM is flawed big time, in MWO. But it is way to late to fix. It is the way it is, and nothing can be done about it. Many made it to T1 and earned it. (it is not a ranking system). Even if it took years, People have kids, grand kids, family, personal issues that get in the way. If people say that is wrong. Then their is def something wrong with you (selfish, ignorant). And I know many in MWO who have kids/grandchildren/gone to war then return, some need breaks, called to a contract jobs, or a other), and in T1 atm. Then people saying "You do not belong to T1" Well, your days will come of something. Some left because they do not like stats, and other reasons. Not just because of MM.

When people stop bringing me back (My name gets called up in here), I will be gone from this thread. But if no one can smile, laugh, be happy. I will be coming back here. Stop bringing me back to defend many.

Edited by GuardDogg, 01 November 2019 - 03:00 AM.

[Gagis]

Your spamming and shitposting is not only pointless, it is actively harmful. Please stop doing what you are doing. I have seen it happen in several threads, where your shitposting makes it impossible for other people to discuss important things. This is a problem. Please stop doing bad things to others like that.

[GuardDogg]

Gagis, on 01 November 2019 - 03:03 AM, said:

Your spamming and shitposting is not only pointless, it is actively harmful. Please stop doing what you are doing. I have seen it happen in several threads, where your shitposting makes it impossible for other people to discuss important things. This is a problem. Please stop doing bad things to others like that.

^^ Someone is angry. Can not make a positive reply, and be a negative. C'mon smile, be happy. Do you know how here? I want to read happiness, positives, and happy positive Tier stuff. Do you know how? Not,,"Waaaa, whaaa!...those people shouldn't be there!,,,waaa,,,,waaa.", "Wrong this, wrong that...waaa!", "Personal stuff (like kids, family) is wrong, is not a factor in MWO...waaa...waaa!"

It is what it is. Nothing is going to change. Nothing can be fixed. People are saying.."MWO is on it last breath". Live with it, or go else where. So, lets see good positive posts. Lets read, good stuff. Not..waa..waa stuff.

Edited by GuardDogg, 01 November 2019 - 03:24 AM.