406 replies to this topic

[Dee Eight]

It was a forum feature pointed out to me by a mod a few years ago.

[MTier Slayed Up]

GuardDogg, on 02 November 2019 - 03:40 PM, said:

Wt fn F? What is your problem? I earned my T with hard work and life together. I like you to respond when you have a heart attack, get into a coma for a week, they try to make it back to top. I did de-tier from that (when I was in T3, to T4), then progressed back up. Guys...Stop being a a-holes. Learn to respect people. Heart less people I have ever encountered. I have a buddy who got called up to war, and returned to MWO. He also de-tiered, and worked his way up. People get called up on job contracts (Away up north from home). And then you guys come along. These guys do not belong in T1. IT is not a ranking system. We are human (average players), not fn robots, computers who think about numbers, stats.

The amount of potatoes in this thread is staggering.

Life happens Dogg. No one will typically care on the internet of your sob story or someone elses, etc. Everyone has their own personal BS to deal with, and it's kind of a **** move to bring it up to try to either start a pity party or make someone feel ashamed. Whatever you went through, that's your personal business, and even then, there's probably someone else out there who's going through way worse **** then you, so probably stfu about it?

All aboard the clue train, last stop is you! Human beings are naturally *** holes. I think you can find it just about anywhere. Especially on the internet when you have anonymity.

Edited by DrtyDshSoap, 03 November 2019 - 03:12 AM.

[Sjorpha]

justcallme A S H, on 02 November 2019 - 04:42 PM, said:

Or actually lying about it.

Because as I said - you could not see this thread or reply to it.

But then Flat Eathers gotta flat. Far easier to "ignore" the truth.

That's not how the ignore list works on this site. You still see the threads and posts, but in minimized format with a note that the poster is on ignore, and then you have to click on them to view the full post.

[Imperial Porter]

There is a weird thing about tier progression at the other end of the spectrum as well. How long does it take to get to tier 1?

After almost 500 games, I am still in tier 2. And if you take a look at Jarls list, you will see why I deem that to be weird.


Now, I made this account as an experiment, to see how far up in the rankings I could move if I only played the top meta mechs. It doesn't reflect my actual skill level by any means. It just shows how big of a number you can put up there if you play primarily for the metrics.

[Gagis]

The bar does seem to move with inconsistent jump and starts. Could be it'll suddenly jump deep into Tier 1 at once.

[Tesunie]

Dimento Graven, on 01 November 2019 - 08:54 AM, said:

Currently all the system does, as it functions now, is to keep the brand new players, and truly very bad players away from Tiers 1 and 2 (in the solo quick drop queue, most of the time).

There's still a performance element in the ranking system it just degrades over matches played, again, being biased 'upward'.

One thing that might assist in this task is if PSR was detached from W/L (at least as heavily as it currently is). We should find what the "average" match scores are and set those scores (probably a number range of around 150-250ish) as "PSR =" results. This means that average match performance results in a non-movement of PSR (because you are performing "average" for that tier). A match score beneath the "average" score range would be a drop in PSR, because that is poor performance compared to the average. Then, performance above said average would be considered improvement, and should grant increased PSR.

The other aspect is that PSR changes drastically too slowly for most cases. It should be a little faster of an up and down (though nothing drastic). I know of players who are still T5 even though they should probably be T3 if not even T2. However, because they play in GP most times (where the challenge tends to be higher) rather than in QP within their own tier (which they wreck face in), they have been stuck in T5.

PSR as a basic system is a rather decent skill guage, but it needs adjustment and some help. Right now you only lose PSR if you lose a match, unless you performed "well above average". You can't lose PSR on a win at all... no mater how poor your performance may have been. This isn't ranking player skill nearly as much as it's ranking player wins...

As been beaten to death before, PSR has too many ways up, a few ways to stay even, and too few ways to go down. On top of that, PSR changes by pixels on the bar... so (excluding the mentioned PSR boosting new accounts get as evidence here in this thread, which I thought was more common knowledge than it appears to be) it can take a long time to move through a tier normally. This means that players who have improved tend to remain in tiers they don't exactly belong in for much longer than they should.

Of course, this is all my opinion on the subject...

[Dee Eight]

Sjorpha, on 03 November 2019 - 04:39 AM, said:

That's not how the ignore list works on this site. You still see the threads and posts, but in minimized format with a note that the poster is on ignore, and then you have to click on them to view the full post.

Also when someone else NOT BEING IGNORED quotes someone who is being ignored in their reply to the discussion, you can see whatever was quoted plain as day. It amuses me how he's so clueless on how the forum features actually function given how much more time he spends being a forum warrior than actually playing the game.

[PhoenixFire55]

Funny how one guy spews insults and lies non-stop, but its the guy who calls him out for that who's gonna get banned.

[Prototelis]

Imperial Porter, on 03 November 2019 - 06:07 AM, said:

to see how far up in the rankings I could move if I only played the THE SKILL EAGLE

Dat you executor? lawl.

[Imperial Porter]

Prototelis, on 03 November 2019 - 11:26 AM, said:

Dat you executor?

No

[Gagis]

Come on. Don't overdo it. That was actually quite helpful information.

These forums are so full of aggressively pushed bad ideas, bad advice, false information or second hand salt that I am seriously considering testing if I could make them somewhat possible to use if I added everyone with... 5000 posts or more? 1000 posts or more? 500 posts or more? to the block list. There is a reason why these are some of the worst gaming related forums out there and why most players preserve their sanity by not even checking whats on them.

I don't have the kind of masochism ASH has. Filtering might make it possible to read a thread without spammy pushing of the bad dominating the experience completely. A typical thread has maybe 2 pages of actual comments and 8 pages of pushy repetition for every 10 pages it has.

[Bowelhacker]

I wonder if it's possible to block myself from this shitshow...

[Tesunie]

Gagis, on 03 November 2019 - 03:57 PM, said:

500 posts or more? to the block list.

You have 500+ posts... are you able to block yourself?

Yes. I'm joking.

[Y E O N N E]

GuardDogg, on 31 October 2019 - 01:41 PM, said:

Will be impossible. I can not imagine a team 12 players each making a damage score of 300-400+ and match score of 400+. Some will have really bad damage/match scores, fall in anger to T3, and some will say.."oh he sucks, he went to T3, He is with GuardDog now." The rage on headsets will be so unreal, and the uninstalling.

Emphasis mine. An inability to imagine a supposed scenario does not preclude said scenario from existing.

Hope that helps.

P.S. People not doing as well when matched up against similarly-skilled players is expected and by design. If they fall through the cracks due to consistently poor performance (as in, consistently below the average used to define that rank) and drop to the tier below, that is a skill-based ranking system working correctly.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Y E O N N E, on 03 November 2019 - 06:07 PM, said:

P.S. People not doing as well when matched up against similarly-skilled players is expected and by design. If they fall through the cracks due to consistently poor performance (as in, consistently below the average used to define that rank) and drop to the tier below, that is a skill-based ranking system working correctly.

Exactly. Some people just don't understand that concept 'cause they've never tried anything competitive. It happens everywhere in every area of life. But if we stick with just MWO, the MWO Championships is just a great e.g., If you put any of those guys in the current QP, they'll constantly avg 350 MS minimum. But against each other, they're truly tested and only a couple of them in a 8-v-8 scenario get high damage or MS. But they all pull their weight tactically. Sometimes, things don't work out and it is completely normal.

Now, if the scenario is that those players who have a dip in form see themselves drop a tier below their current one, they'll get back to the top tier once they find their form. This is COMPLETELY natural. A dip in form means they get relegated to a lower tier but they'll get back to the top once they start performing at a high level consistently again.

So, this talk of, "Oh, you think everyone in a team will rack up 500 MS per game?! REEEEEE" just shows a severe lack of understanding.

Edit :- That last bit is for our mutual friend in this topic

Edited by FRAGTAST1C, 03 November 2019 - 07:29 PM.

[GuardDogg]

Why do not guys disapprove some players (including myself) being in T1? Ever thought some players improve in time.

Edited by GuardDogg, 03 November 2019 - 07:56 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

If they did improve - it wouldn't be a problem. They would need to improve to, IMO, at least 300 average match score at a bare minimum.

That is if PSR was more than just a mass-games-played bar.

[Vanguard836]

GuardDogg, on 02 November 2019 - 03:40 PM, said:

...And then you guys come along. These guys do not belong in T1. IT is not a ranking system. We are human (average players), not fn robots, computers who think about numbers, stats.

GuardDogg, on 03 November 2019 - 07:55 PM, said:

Why do not guys disapprove some players (including myself) being in T1? Ever thought some players improve in time.

Respectfully, it has been indicated that the plan, the intention for the current matchmaker is to rank players by skill.
Please see the original patch notes here https://mwomercs.com...-1430-18aug2015
and additional info here : https://mwomercs.com...-tiers-and-psr/

here are some excerpts from those notes
"Pilot Skill Rating - The Elo Replacement

The purpose of the new Pilot Skill Rating (PSR) system is to make your pilot skill values based more on individual performance, rather than the binary win or loss outcome of a match. This new PSR system will effectively remove the current Elo system from the game and the matchmaker."

"PSR and Skill Tiers

With the new PSR system in place we are now able to put players into Skill Tiers.

There are 5 Skill Tiers in which a pilot can be ranked: Tier 1 being comprised of the best-rated players in the game, and Tier 5 being comprised of pilots who are in dire need of additional training. That being said, we now have much more control over who plays against whom, without the presence of the ‘release valves’ that were in place under the original system."

As other have mentioned, the current weighting of the calculations appear to be too generous and push people towards Tier 1 unless someone goes trough efforts to go down in rating. What is in the patch notes and dev post is indication of what it is intended to do. Right now, with enough matches played, players are being pushed upwards regardless of their skill with the Tier system acting more akin to an MMO character level than to the intended skill rating system.

Please check the links included above and confirm for yourself.

Edited by Vanguard836, 03 November 2019 - 08:22 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Vanguard836, on 03 November 2019 - 08:11 PM, said:

The purpose of the new Pilot Skill Rating (PSR) system is to make your pilot skill values based more on individual performance, rather than the binary win or loss outcome of a match.

As other have mentioned, the current weighting of the calculations appear to be too generous and push people towards Tier 1

It's entire issue is in the initial statement. Binary win or loss - it is the fact that wins count for too much... So it's quite literally binary because of it counting for so much which, for the majority of players, is largely irrelevant to how they actually perform because you can perform poorly (150dmg) and still go up.

PGI basically borked it by weighting a win condition so heavily. It was broken since it was implemented and what we are seeing now is the result of it. It took a good 2 years to really start to manifest and the last 12-18 months have been seen it escalate out of control.

[GuardDogg]

I see pilots in T1 not making 300 match score all the time. Sometimes they do, and sometimes they don't. Then making match scores of 400. It fluctuates.