406 replies to this topic

[Mister Maf]

GuardDogg, on 04 November 2019 - 03:32 AM, said:

Furthermore, If you have other idea, than "group". Say something, or do not write at all. Take care. :-)

Holy cow, please cool your high horse complex. You're being incredibly condescending. I mean to say that the vocabulary of the existing tier system is not the problem here. Tiers 1-5 is intuitively easy to understand and no better, worse, or even different than the levels or military ranks or precious metal ranks used in other games. A level 100 player or a prestige 10 colonel or a platinum league competitor is all the same thing as a tier 1 pilot. It represents a vertical stratification in matchmaking ranks rather than a meaningless horizontal grouping.

[Tesunie]

GuardDogg, on 04 November 2019 - 06:06 PM, said:

?
I work 4 hours a day, now. I have made my income Lots. plus I am retired. Did I tell anyone to get a life? Please point it out. Maybe I did? My apology's. Except for the younger salty ones. under 40.

Anyone else like to get into my life? Any questions?

GuardDogg, on 04 November 2019 - 05:04 AM, said:

I didn't write names. So, move elsewhere. Kudos to you. Be happy, smile. Go enjoy the sun, hug your wife, kids, friends, a community. Their will be days, you will speak for them.

You basically did tell people to "get a life" and to "get off the game and enjoy (life)".

[Tesunie]

I'd also like to say, as someone whom is currently jobless (at the ripe old age of 34) from arthritis in my knees... I wish I could play the game as much as other people do here. However, pain tends to limit my game exposure (and capability) for MW:O. It's strange to some people, how knee problems inhibit game play, but this game's intensity tends to hurt my knees. (Other games don't, but some do.)

If you play this game for more than 4 hrs a day, then it's basically a part time job. 6-8 hrs a day, it's a full time job. However, how much someone plays this game is up to the individual. Unless you are a child, then we are all adults here and we have the ability to do what we want with our time.

[FRAGTAST1C]

GuardDogg, on 04 November 2019 - 08:17 AM, said:

I have improved over the years, from bad times. I am a skilled pilot. We have bad days, and we have good days.. Their is players that will always be better than the other. Their is a lot of pilots better than myself. People are always learning, no matter how skilled they are. Even top pilots will keep learning. Their is no limits.

Good. Now go one step further and say that your skill is at a lower level than theirs, just like others admit to. Then you'll see that it's just a word used in its correct context. There's no malice intended.

[Dee Eight]

Barkem Squirrel, on 04 November 2019 - 10:07 AM, said:

I played with a very bad computer, that ended up at less than 10 fps,

Prior to my July 2017 computer upgrade i was getting a low of 8fps to a high of 19fps and that was with EVERY graphics setting turned down to the lowest values. With the new computer I jumped into the 70fps and higher on every map except Solaris City with everything set medium to high. Even on Solaris I'm still seeing at least 40fps.

[GuardDogg]

Tesunie, on 04 November 2019 - 06:49 PM, said:

You basically did tell people to "get a life" and to "get off the game and enjoy (life)".

Told people be happy, smile, enjoy life, (even it is on MWO. < Never wrote that, but was meant to be in it)) That salt will hurt you one day, with regrets.

FRAGTAST1C, on 04 November 2019 - 06:57 PM, said:

Good. Now go one step further and say that your skill is at a lower level than theirs, just like others admit to. Then you'll see that it's just a word used in its correct context. There's no malice intended.

No I will not. Sorry. Earned. Let life be as it is.

Tesunie, on 04 November 2019 - 06:55 PM, said:

I'd also like to say, as someone whom is currently jobless (at the ripe old age of 34) from arthritis in my knees... I wish I could play the game as much as other people do here. However, pain tends to limit my game exposure (and capability) for MW:O. It's strange to some people, how knee problems inhibit game play, but this game's intensity tends to hurt my knees. (Other games don't, but some do.)

If you play this game for more than 4 hrs a day, then it's basically a part time job. 6-8 hrs a day, it's a full time job. However, how much someone plays this game is up to the individual. Unless you are a child, then we are all adults here and we have the ability to do what we want with our time.

Kudos. :-) Today, never got any MWO. Had a busy, positive day (got, gave hugs to those I helped), that so, even in the MWO forums. People like me here, or they wouldn't (quote) reply.

Wow...looked at my stats. 500 games in Oct. Calculated to about 10-12 games a day (give or take can be more). Weekends or the Sunday is the most 20=40. Yeah, that is a lot. 5 mins a game or the odd 8 mins, one or two 15 minute games. Yeah, looks like MWO is my second job. :-)

Edited by GuardDogg, 04 November 2019 - 07:27 PM.

[Tesunie]

GuardDogg, on 04 November 2019 - 07:14 PM, said:

Told people be happy, smile, enjoy life, (even it is on MWO. < Never wrote that, but was meant to be in it)) That salt will hurt you one day, with regrets.

People read what you typed differently than how you seemed to have intended it to be. your post seemed to say "Get off the game, get a life, don't play so much". Rather that was what you meant to say or not, that is how people took the post. All I'm doing is pointing out where people got that statement from you. Even I read it a little like that... It was how it seemed to be presented.

[GuardDogg]

Tesunie, on 04 November 2019 - 07:29 PM, said:

People read what you typed differently than how you seemed to have intended it to be. your post seemed to say "Get off the game, get a life, don't play so much". Rather that was what you meant to say or not, that is how people took the post. All I'm doing is pointing out where people got that statement from you. Even I read it a little like that... It was how it seemed to be presented.

You are writing like what I wrote "lower" from "Pro". People take it in differently. Thanks for pointing that out.

Edited by GuardDogg, 04 November 2019 - 07:36 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

GuardDogg, on 03 November 2019 - 11:27 PM, said:

LMAO!..... No! "Not given a Tier 1 badge"

The Tiers 1-5, I think...... Group A-E. Group A for the ones who make Match Scores of 300+. Group E is for starters, beginners. I am sure many would enjoy being in certain groups. Sounds more comfortable, reasonable. And having that option of staying with a group of players, would make people happy. The word "Lower" will not be used.

You are trying to avoid using words which are still directly applicable to the structure you have laid out. E tier is still a lower tier because it is filled with players that have a lower match score. An objective truth is not an insult, it's simply a statement of fact. Just because a player is in E tier does not mean that they can't get better and then end up in D tier, then C tier, B tier, and ultimately A tier. But that's still climbing the ranks; the implication of the term "climbing" being that you are going from low to high.

[GuardDogg]

Y E O N N E, on 04 November 2019 - 07:36 PM, said:

You are trying to avoid using words which are still directly applicable to the structure you have laid out. E tier is still a lower tier because it is filled with players that have a lower match score. An objective truth is not an insult, it's simply a statement of fact. Just because a player is in E tier does not mean that they can't get better and then end up in D tier, then C tier, B tier, and ultimately A tier. But that's still climbing the ranks; the implication of the term "climbing" being that you are going from low to high.

May be lower if you direct it that way "Lower group", and then adding "Tier" with numbers is intimidating. Saying, Group E is beginner group. Group C is for those who just play, average. Group A is the ones who prefer stats, numbers. Maybe group isn't the word. Something more friendlier and worthy to be in. But if you have anything better, please write it out. Or just drop it. Seems to be a joke (laughing "Role eye" thing) to some and they have replied on it.

Edited by GuardDogg, 04 November 2019 - 07:48 PM.

[Tesunie]

GuardDogg, on 04 November 2019 - 07:39 PM, said:

May be lower if you direct it that way "Lower group", and then adding "Tier" with numbers is intimidating. Saying, Group E is beginner group. Group C is for those who just play, average. Group A is the ones who prefer stats, numbers. Maybe group isn't the word. Something more friendlier and worthy to be in. But if you have anything better, please write it out. Or just drop it.

No matter what word is chosen to be used, it's meaning will still be the same. If you are in this group for MM, you typically are this skilled in the game on an average. What that reason may be (poor computer performance, medical condition, tendency to goof off rather than play serious most time, long gaps between playing sessions, etc) is rather irrelevant when we are talking about a system for matching like skilled players together for better match play and increase in fun.

An argument could be better utilized for having said MM tiering group numbers/designations hidden to the players, but there are always those players who will want to know what their ranking is, or presume that X stat dictates how "good" a player actually is.

Humans always like to categorize, separate and organize things. Be it a social order, a skill bracket level, a corporate rank, military rank... even regional and origin. For an example, in the USA, we are suppose to be "united" and "equal". However, despite that, we still seem to want to separate and place designations on groups of people. "The Latino group supports this candidate." "The African American people are more likely to purchase this item." "You can't trust those Hispanics in this neighborhood," We subcategorize. We divide. We separate. Yet we are "united"?

However, as mentioned before, that is part of human nature. Look at how we categorize nature. How we organize our kitchens. How we arrange business personal structure. Government. People like a "pecking order".


As a side note to this, there is a reason I already address advice and technical know how not being as impacted by "rank", which means even a T5 players advice should be listened to as much as a T1 player, depending upon how said player wishes to play this game and at what level they currently are. Or, with technical information, test it yourself if/when possible and see which one is true. I've seen T5 players post correct technical know how, while a comp T1 player had the wrong information. Thus, proving, that any ranking system holds little weight to what a player says.

[Y E O N N E]

GuardDogg, on 04 November 2019 - 07:39 PM, said:

May be lower if you direct it that way "Lower group", and then adding "Tier" with numbers is intimidating. Saying, Group E is beginner group. Group C is for those who just play, average. Group A is the ones who prefer stats, numbers. Maybe group isn't the word. Something more friendlier and worthy to be in. But if you have anything better, please write it out. Or just drop it. Seems to be a joke (laughing "Role eye" thing) to some and they have replied on it.

It's still lower.

I genuinely do not understand why you are trying to make this "friendly". Its purpose is not to be friendly, its purpose is to stratify players so that it can place the same number of players from each rank on each team with the hope that it will create a match with that has as close-as-is-possible a chance of going being 50/50 odds on who wins. If you want to feel good about yourself, then turn off the visible ranking in-game and never check your own stats, because that's not what this system is for.

[GuardDogg]

The English language can be harsh, how well it is written, or yet spoken. People can get offended in tones/pitch. Depending what is said.

Y E O N N E, on 04 November 2019 - 08:05 PM, said:

It's still lower.

I genuinely do not understand why you are trying to make this "friendly". Its purpose is not to be friendly, its purpose is to stratify players so that it can place the same number of players from each rank on each team with the hope that it will create a match with that has as close-as-is-possible a chance of going being 50/50 odds on who wins. If you want to feel good about yourself, then turn off the visible ranking in-game and never check your own stats, because that's not what this system is for.

Good for you. You made your point, I made mine.

Edited by GuardDogg, 04 November 2019 - 08:11 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

GuardDogg, on 04 November 2019 - 08:08 PM, said:

Good for you. You made your point, I made mine.

No, you didn't. You are only waffling around saying it should "make players feel good where they are," in conjunction with failed attempts at describing the system in a way that you think it doesn't imply some players are lower than others, all without stating why you are undertaking that effort in the first place.

Try again.

[GuardDogg]

Y E O N N E, on 04 November 2019 - 08:14 PM, said:

No, you didn't. You are only waffling around saying it should "make players feel good where they are," in conjunction with failed attempts at describing the system in a way that you think it doesn't imply some players are lower than others, all without stating why you are undertaking that effort in the first place.

Try again.

Hey, you said your point, and I said mine. You do not like it, oh well. I can not change you (just maybe to get you to understand). You can not change me. So...nothing is going to be understood about "Lower" from "Pro" from hard hearts.

I am happy where I am in the T-system. I am not the only one.

Edited by GuardDogg, 04 November 2019 - 08:23 PM.

[Tesunie]

Y E O N N E, on 04 November 2019 - 08:05 PM, said:

It's still lower.

I genuinely do not understand why you are trying to make this "friendly". Its purpose is not to be friendly, its purpose is to stratify players so that it can place the same number of players from each rank on each team with the hope that it will create a match with that has as close-as-is-possible a chance of going being 50/50 odds on who wins. If you want to feel good about yourself, then turn off the visible ranking in-game and never check your own stats, because that's not what this system is for.

I think his problems stem from people who will throw your stats or ranking (or what they presume your ranking to be) into your face and try to dismiss everything you say simply because "you aren't good enough to speak, so shut up and go away".

I've seen people throw my stats into my face when talking about a specific build, often based upon a weapon system type's performance. They try to dismiss my results with said weapon because "your Jarl's List says" like it accounts for me playing only that build/mech/weapon type and exclusively said weapon. This can be despite my posting of that specific mech's stats for said build (with notation of what may or may not have contaminated said build's stats, such as previous other builds) showing counter to their point, or even counter to my global stats/Jarl's list. Like anyone else, I have mechs that work very well, and I have mechs that "I'm toying around with this one and/or it's fun to use".

I think the ranking is less of an issue compared to how people tend to throw rank around like it's earned them some kind of privilege or automatic respect... And some people will try to use said rank/stats to beat anyone they disagree with or just "don't like" into "shame". However, no matter what you call it, how visible or invisible it may be, people will still try to come up with the same reasons. Just their supporting evidence may resort to the older days of "I saw you in a match, remember? I beat you and didn't even break a sweat", rather than displayed rank and/or stats and/or listings (Jarl's List).


Personally, I find stats fun to track and interesting to look at. But I also feel it's not something to be taken too seriously besides for personal metrics and seeing how specific builds may work compared to others (looking at average damage per ton per match, or even average match scores). I like to use it ultimately as a personal tool to find what not only feels good to play, but also actually statistically works well to play. (Sometimes, what feels good and what works good can be different, statistically.) Or to loosely prove a point. ("You can't get a hit accuracy rating of 30% with LRMs", "My LRM stats say I get 43-50% accuracy... are you sure it's the weapon and not how you are using it?" Actual debate I had in a thread once...)

[Tesunie]

Y E O N N E, on 04 November 2019 - 08:14 PM, said:

No, you didn't. You are only waffling around saying it should "make players feel good where they are," in conjunction with failed attempts at describing the system in a way that you think it doesn't imply some players are lower than others, all without stating why you are undertaking that effort in the first place.

Try again.

I don't see the tier system as "lower" or "higher" than other players. Maybe in general skill/game performance... but in the end most of that ranking is just different styles of play. More casual players tend to be lower in rank. More comp players tend to want/be higher in rank. This isn't exactly a problem in my opinion, and shouldn't be seen as anything other than to better place players within a MM system, which does need hard numbers to pair people up with.

A lower rank may just mean a pension for experimentation (my own folly) to actual poor skill for any number of reasons (some players in this game aren't exactly sprightly young people anymore). It may mean playing "what is fun" rather than "what is most effective, even if it's a 1% better performance than an alternative choice". It's a game, and I feel it not only should be treated exactly as one, but that this game should have enough room for both casual and comp players to have our places and matches.

[Prototelis]

Mystere, on 04 November 2019 - 06:27 PM, said:

The key takeaways here are:

The key takeaway is this;
Pilot Skill Rating - The Elo Replacement


The purpose of the new Pilot Skill Rating (PSR) system is to make your pilot skill values based more on individual performance, rather than the binary win or loss outcome of a match. This new PSR system will effectively remove the current Elo system from the game and the matchmaker.


I bolded and biggie texted the relevant parts because you refuse to read them.

Edited by Prototelis, 04 November 2019 - 09:46 PM.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Tesunie, on 04 November 2019 - 08:25 PM, said:

A lower rank may just mean a pension for experimentation (my own folly) to actual poor skill for any number of reasons (some players in this game aren't exactly sprightly young people anymore). It may mean playing "what is fun" rather than "what is most effective, even if it's a 1% better performance than an alternative choice". It's a game, and I feel it not only should be treated exactly as one, but that this game should have enough room for both casual and comp players to have our places and matches.

But when you compare yourself with other pilots who, too, play wonky builds 'cause it is fun and still perform like the top tier pilots, then their skill is higher than yours. I'm just saying that people treat this as a game and can also say who is a better player no matter what.

Things aren't mutually exclusive and in MWO, winning is more or less "Fun". I don't mind finishing outside the top 20 for 20 games straight in, say, PUBG 'cause I can easily play with friends. But in MWO, outside of FP, you have to rely on chance to play with your friends. I don't want to keep losing constantly when I'm not with my friends. Some might consider that fun and all the power to them.

But our friend here gets upset with words. So, MWO is more than just a game to him 'cause it offends him to his core. Why else would he get hung up over the fact that someone can point out the difference between Lower and Higher tiers? But he masks it by attempting to speak for others.

[GuardDogg]

FRAGTAST1C, on 04 November 2019 - 10:38 PM, said:

But our friend here gets upset with words. So, MWO is more than just a game to him 'cause it offends him to his core. Why else would he get hung up over the fact that someone can point out the difference between Lower and Higher tiers? But he masks it by attempting to speak for others.

I am not comparing to anyone else. I am me in MWO, but saying their will always be some player way better than you. No matter how skilled you are. You will always keep learning/changing. Their is those who are more serious in MWO, and I am seeing in here, or they wouldn't get these salty personalities. Calling, laughing out stats during rounds to other players, and more. "You should be there, not here. Here is for the pros, you suck, You are not a pro." Does it feel good? Insulting? It is unhealthy to many, even to the ones calling it out. Causes game rage to those who try to make it T1. If you have trouble grasping Lower from pro, how it is spoken, said around MWO, then their is definite problem. T5 - Beginner, T1 - Professionals. Get it? No? I am not the only one made it to T1, and arguing is not going to solve it. It is not going to make the magic wand swing. Stop with the unicorn imagination.

Edited by GuardDogg, 05 November 2019 - 02:58 AM.