228 replies to this topic

[Johny Rocket]

Jake Doyle, on 21 December 2019 - 03:23 PM, said:

I always try to get to the spot that I know they will eventually be, however when dropped into Canyon... it's impossible and there is absolutely no chance whatsoever, the same with the city map. Whenever i play smaller, faster mechs I always stay back with the assaults until they meet up with the rest of the team. I just don't understand the logic of running as fast as you can away from the mechs that can suck up the damage.

Well its this simple when 4-5 lights and mediums can run up thru the enemies slower mechs who are spread out trying to run to keep up with their team, those 4-5 mechs nascaring do most of the killing and actually don't need their slower teammates to win a match. I felt much the same as you but after awhile I just gave up and went for fast dps builds. Things that are running from you aren't shooting at you so the meta of trading armor is a mute point, its all about kenetic energy and dps.


Example 1 Kintaro 20 with an XL360 3xsrm6 and 4x smpl 114kph
Example 2 Bloodlust with 4x srm4 3x MGs and an XL280 113kph
Example 3 Cyclops 11P with a XL400, ecm, stealth, 2x RAC2 and 4x mpl. 77kph
Example 4 Battlemaster 1g with a XL400, 2x RAC2 and 7x smpl 82kp

Edited by Johny Rocket, 24 December 2019 - 12:11 PM.

[Prototelis]

^Those are all terrible ideas. Please don't.

[Horseman]

PhoenixFire55, on 24 December 2019 - 07:45 AM, said:

I'm pretty sure you understand the difference between "close the distance" and "close the distance without getting shot in the process".

There's "taking a risk of getting shot" and "actually getting shot". If it costs me some armor to get into a tactically advantageous position - or to be able to take out an enemy mech quickly - it's usually a risk worth taking.
Always opting for risk avoidance ends in a mech hiding behind terrain because the pilot is afraid of scratching his paint. And I wish I haven't actually seen that one... but I did. He was so focused on hiding that he never fired a shot and his heavy was the last mech on the team to die after a disastrous 11 v 12.

Johny Rocket, on 24 December 2019 - 12:09 PM, said:

Example 1 Kintaro 20 with an XL360 3xsrm6 and 4x smpl 114kph
Example 2 Bloodlust with 4x srm4 3x MGs and an XL280 113kph
Example 3 Cyclops 11P with a XL400, ecm, stealth, 2x RAC2 and 4x mpl. 77kph
Example 4 Battlemaster 1g with a XL400, 2x RAC2 and 7x smpl 82kp

1. XL Kintaro, eww. You basically built an ASN-21 with worse hitboxes.
2. Ewww. Just capitalize on the SRMs and you can chuck SRM22 or ASRM16 salvoseasily.
3. You don't need a 75 KPH assault. IS XL on a frontline assault - eww. Stealth armor on an assault - eww. Loadout that would fit on a Rifleman - eww. Just take a Cyclops 10Q with 6xASRM6 and LFE375 or Victor 9S with AC20, 3xASRM6 and LFE340 - 68 KPH is plenty enough to be leading the charge if you're sufficiently aggressive.
4. Dude, seriously. You don't need a 75 KPH assault and you damn well don't need an 80 KPH one. And you absolutely don't need to waste your Skill Points on Speed Tweak on a freaking assault!

[Prototelis]

If you want to play an 80kph assault just play a ******* gargles lawl.

BTW, I wouldn't go first in a 10Q. It isn't fragile by any means, but it isn't super tank either.

You can't leverage the insane short range burst damage if you get melted, let someone else go and then back them up. The 6asrm6 10Q has the cooling to eat two alphas before you need to fire in groups. You can burst 140 damage on a red and completely remove them from the fight in a few seconds, but if you get chris'd at any point you're going to just die.


Either way; this pervasive attitude that you have to constantly pusha pusha pusha into somewhere without considering whether or not it provides you any sort of advantage is ******* stupid.

Just as stupid as lololololololoollol ASSULT = PUSH MOAR

Edited by Prototelis, 24 December 2019 - 01:53 PM.

[Dee Eight]

Johny Rocket, on 24 December 2019 - 12:09 PM, said:

Example SNIP

Bad ideas from a bad player. Next....

[Johny Rocket]

Horseman, on 24 December 2019 - 01:25 PM, said:

There's "taking a risk of getting shot" and "actually getting shot". If it costs me some armor to get into a tactically advantageous position - or to be able to take out an enemy mech quickly - it's usually a risk worth taking.
Always opting for risk avoidance ends in a mech hiding behind terrain because the pilot is afraid of scratching his paint. And I wish I haven't actually seen that one... but I did. He was so focused on hiding that he never fired a shot and his heavy was the last mech on the team to die after a disastrous 11 v 12.


1. XL Kintaro, eww. You basically built an ASN-21 with worse hitboxes.
2. Ewww. Just capitalize on the SRMs and you can chuck SRM22 or ASRM16 salvoseasily.
3. You don't need a 75 KPH assault. IS XL on a frontline assault - eww. Stealth armor on an assault - eww. Loadout that would fit on a Rifleman - eww. Just take a Cyclops 10Q with 6xASRM6 and LFE375 or Victor 9S with AC20, 3xASRM6 and LFE340 - 68 KPH is plenty enough to be leading the charge if you're sufficiently aggressive.
4. Dude, seriously. You don't need a 75 KPH assault and you damn well don't need an 80 KPH one. And you absolutely don't need to waste your Skill Points on Speed Tweak on a freaking assault!

And this is when we get to the part about opinions being like ******** part of the discussion.

1. when you can get 97 CT and 72 ST armor on an Assassin come back to tell me how I built an Assassin with worse hitboxes.

2 Capitalize on these nuts, 4x srm4 on chain and 3x MGs wrecks and keeps constant presure on someone already in panic mode trying to run.

3. I don't need any assault mechs, running 48kph and getting murdered by 3-4 mechs that don't even match my tonnage combined eeww. Having to be more concerned with moving to try to be where my team might be when I finally get there eeww. Not having stealth so I have to try to run and hide at the same time to not get missiled to death eeeeeeeeewwwwwwww.

4. being able to bring an assault mech to the front of a nascar hmmm yes totally horrible idea.

Dee Eight, on 24 December 2019 - 02:10 PM, said:

I am so awesome you must bow to my awesomeness hurdurh

Yeah.....

[Y E O N N E]

Prototelis, on 24 December 2019 - 10:44 AM, said:

It's just big engine stomp meta, only bads can't move and shoot at the same time.

What's old is new again! All hail the Balance Overlords!

[Prototelis]

Dee Eight, on 24 December 2019 - 02:10 PM, said:

Bad ideas from a bad player. Next....

lol.

Both of you lose most of the games you play.

[VeeOt Dragon]

personally I think whatever mech /build you are personally effective with is a good mech. I have seen some people do amazing things with builds I wouldn't touch.

as for this reason for this thread well it is true (though I haven't played with any regularity in quite a while). teamwork is what wins matches though individual skill counts. if folks used some tactic other than nascar then you would find more varying builds. one thing I can say is NEVER leave your Assaults behind and press R. yes it helps LRMs but it also gives targeting data for yourself. with just a small amount of help and some skill you can devastate an enemy with proper usage of support weapons (just don't load down an Assault with LRM, one small or mid sized launcher with a ton or so of ammo is plenty for softening up the enemy while you catch up)

the problem is lack of communication and tactical thinking. I have never once seen people stop nascaring when things start going bad. out need to change u your tactics as the match evolves. an LRM catapult with a light mech offering a little assistance when they can't get their own locks (get them yourself if you can, the LRM changes make direct fire LRM a more viable tactic. Assault mechs no matter their speed should bee your linchpin, the anchor of a formation. help them survive long enough to bring that firepower to bare. some speed is good (so try to go at least 55-60kph at minimum in an assault if you can.)

in the end its a game and you supposed to try and have fun. if this means using non-meta builds, trying a new approach a map, or just trying something new now and again go for it. the elitist talk only serves to shrink the community farther every year and chase off the increasingly rare new players. the absolute truth is I am a tier 3 player at best and don't claim to be any kind of expert.

[FRAGTAST1C]

PhoenixFire55, on 24 December 2019 - 02:47 AM, said:

What does this have to do with what we are discussing? ... Idiots willing to be idiots is hardly a reason to justify anything.

Look, I'm not going to debate tactics for QP coz its pointless. Any tactic requires brain, smth that an average QP player doesn't have. It is up to you to adapt to the level of stupidity of your team and make sure YOU perform well. If smb chooses to cry about how everyone is stupid when he is the only one left behind somewhere? ... well, who's the stupid one?

I'm not justifying idiocy. I'm just saying that such terrible tactics exhibited by stat-padding players has resulted in a lot of terrible moments in QP. Plus, there are those in the light mechs that die within the first few seconds of enemy contact. It happens over and over again.

Hence my initial post to the OP suggesting that 500 damage and a kill is what he should be aiming for in QP, regardless of the type of assault mech, as a bare minimum until some guy back there came in and went "reeeeeeeeeeeeeeee".

[Quandoo]

I switch to assault when pugs frustrate me. With big guns i can change the whole game by myself.
Try backstab with ECM assault, always fun. 500dmg is a bad round as assault... 700 minimum, better aim for 1000

Edited by Quandoo, 24 December 2019 - 10:21 PM.

[Dee Eight]

Johny Rocket, on 24 December 2019 - 02:15 PM, said:

And this is when we get to the part about opinions being like ******** part of the discussion.

1. when you can get 97 CT and 72 ST armor on an Assassin come back to tell me how I built an Assassin with worse hitboxes.

Bigger armor quirks just don't make up for the worse hit boxes and lower agility. There's a reason you never see kintaro rushes... but assassin rushes are a real thing with organized drops. You simply suck as a mech designer if that's a build you're dropping with and it shows in your play statistics. Grinding out a lot of matches to be high on the total wins ranking means little when you're average match score, win/loss ratio and kill/death ratios are in the toilet.

[Horseman]

Johny Rocket, on 24 December 2019 - 02:15 PM, said:

1. when you can get 97 CT and 72 ST armor on an Assassin come back to tell me how I built an Assassin with worse hitboxes.

The raw armor value doesn't compensate for worse agility or hitboxes. The KTO is substantially bigger and those STs stick out like a sore thumb. An XL in an ASN is manageable, but in a KTO it's just plain stupid.

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2 Capitalize on these nuts, 4x srm4 on chain and 3x MGs wrecks and keeps constant presure on someone already in panic mode trying to run.

Chainfire means you're not just playing a bad build but also playing it badly. Again, you've built a worse ASN there.

Quote

3. I don't need any assault mechs, running 48kph and getting murdered by 3-4 mechs that don't even match my tonnage combined eeww.

An assault mech can do 58-60 kph, still keep up with the nascar if you know how to navigate and still maintain a decent amount of firepower. Faster ones can do close to 70 KPH - as I've shown you. You're clinging so hard to the "go faster" mentality that your mechs have the survivability of a wet paper bag and firepower that belongs at most on a heavy. Instead of capitalizing on your mech's strengths, you're trying to compensate for their failures - but you do it so badly that you end up compounding those failures instead.

That in turn impacts your survival rate, performance in matches and tanks the odds of success of any team you're on.

Quote

Not having stealth so I have to try to run and hide at the same time to not get missiled to death eeeeeeeeewwwwwwww.

Stealth on a 100 tonner is a waste of slots. Again, you're trying to compensate for failures instead of trying to improve what your mechs are actually good at.

Quote

4. being able to bring an assault mech to the front of a nascar hmmm yes totally horrible idea.

Yes, if it results in it becoming a fragile glass cannon with nowhere near enough firepower to matter.

Edited by Horseman, 25 December 2019 - 03:30 AM.

[Vxheous]

Dee Eight, on 25 December 2019 - 01:26 AM, said:

Bigger armor quirks just don't make up for the worse hit boxes and lower agility. There's a reason you never see kintaro rushes... but assassin rushes are a real thing with organized drops. You simply suck as a mech designer if that's a build you're dropping with and it shows in your play statistics. Grinding out a lot of matches to be high on the total wins ranking means little when you're average match score, win/loss ratio and kill/death ratios are in the toilet.

holy ****, Dee Eight is becoming an elitist

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

Vxheous, on 25 December 2019 - 06:46 AM, said:

holy ****, Dee Eight is becoming an elitist

[Appogee]

Jake Doyle, on 21 December 2019 - 02:25 PM, said:

I thought that MW5 would get rid of it as many "in the now" players would leave and the hardcore would stay. I guess I was wrong.

Speaking as a 'hardcore' player...

1. I pretty much stopped playing Quick Play two years ago because of the bad teams, tactics and matchmaking.
2. For the past two weeks I have been playing MW5.
3. I expect to keep playing MW5 for another couple of weeks.
4. Then I'll probably come back to MWO. Or maybe I'll play Red Dead Redemption II or Outer Worlds.

[VeeOt Dragon]

for me I quit playing MWO for the same reason Appogee. though since I refuse to give Epic a single dime will not be playing MW5 (well that and i'm dead broke). I left to play *BattleTech* and don't see myself coming back to MWO in the foreseeable future.

I just got sucked into the forum again because I was trying to find out if there was a cristmas day mech give-a-way like previous years but there isn't. not only that but he loot back mech choice is a joke in comparison.

as for assaults I do enjoy my ECM Stalker (a cristmas event gift mech by the way) and my 4 AMS Corsair (the hero is great to but I laugh when even an SRM blast is stopped in its tracks, well blunted at least). no stealth on that stalker, its a waste of tonnage on an assault.

Edited by VeeOt Dragon, 25 December 2019 - 08:56 AM.

[Tarl Cabot]

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Yes, if it results in it becoming a fragile glass cannon with nowhere near enough firepower to matter

Yeap, and glass cannons because PGI failed to bring isXL inline with the other 2 non-standard engines, insisting on sticking with the tabletop rules of 3 engine crits in side torso - engine dead, even though the cXL/LFE are allowed, by proxy of both ST destroyed, 4 engine crits. And Chris never touched the subject again, even though he had discussed it when the then new Skill Tree went live..

[Prototelis]

isXL ST death is tHe LuOrE tho

[Tarl Cabot]

Prototelis, on 25 December 2019 - 12:53 PM, said:

isXL ST death is tHe LuOrE tho

ROFL.. hai.. them lore holes..