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Balance Gameplay General

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#101 Horseman

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Posted 18 January 2020 - 10:50 AM

View PostBLOODWOLF333, on 18 January 2020 - 10:18 AM, said:

Watching the MWO World Championships on YT, are air artillery strikes worthless? All I see these guys using are air and seem to be much more useful.
Different spread. Arty deals damage in a circular radius around the mark. Air "walks" the damage from the mark in a line away from your position (as it was when you set the strike). There are more shells dropped from Arty than Air, and for general purposes it is actually the preferable version.

#102 Leone

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Posted 18 January 2020 - 11:11 AM

Basically, Airstrikes are great for hitting folk who poke, and Arty is great for area denial and/or breaking up murderballs.

In the championships, it's mostly a poking game, and coolshots are better'n arty for the second consumable.

~Leone.

#103 BLOODWOLF333

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Posted 18 January 2020 - 03:43 PM

The bundles in the store will eventually change right? I'd like to get some clan mechs but, it's all IS right now and I usually get the bundles when I buy mechs.

#104 Y E O N N E

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Posted 18 January 2020 - 04:18 PM

View PostBLOODWOLF333, on 18 January 2020 - 03:43 PM, said:

The bundles in the store will eventually change right? I'd like to get some clan mechs but, it's all IS right now and I usually get the bundles when I buy mechs.


No.

#105 Appogee

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Posted 18 January 2020 - 04:26 PM

View PostBLOODWOLF333, on 18 January 2020 - 03:43 PM, said:

The bundles in the store will eventually change right? I'd like to get some clan mechs but, it's all IS right now and I usually get the bundles when I buy mechs.

No. They have been what they are for years.

For committed players wanting to access advanced Clan Mech and tech, PGI want you to spend more money and grind more.

#106 BLOODWOLF333

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Posted 18 January 2020 - 05:00 PM

Oh. So then wait until the clan mech(s) I want are 50% off.

#107 FRAGTAST1C

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Posted 18 January 2020 - 06:48 PM

View PostBLOODWOLF333, on 18 January 2020 - 05:00 PM, said:

Oh. So then wait until the clan mech(s) I want are 50% off.


If you're spending real money, wait until there are 30% discounts on mech packs and also, keep an eye out for the Dropship sales. The dropship sales are like a la carte on Hero mechs and are very cheap compared to trying to buy hero mechs individually.

When buying with C-bills, well, you missed the last sale. All of the mechs were 50% off in-game.

#108 BLOODWOLF333

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Posted 19 January 2020 - 12:49 PM

I was building a "Shard" Arctic Cheetah the other day and noticed the Clan ER PPC only does 10 damage instead of 15. Was this weapon too OP and they nerfed it? I've tried to "balance" games/tournaments in megamek with IS vs Clan before and it just never works out very well. The battle value score does not tell all and they really upset things when introducing the Clans but, I still like them.

And I read we used to have Long Toms before and was used to club disorganized baby seals. Did we have thumpers, snipers, thunderbolt missiles, and arrow IV as well?

Edited by BLOODWOLF333, 19 January 2020 - 12:50 PM.


#109 thievingmagpi

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Posted 19 January 2020 - 01:11 PM

View PostBLOODWOLF333, on 19 January 2020 - 12:49 PM, said:

I was building a "Shard" Arctic Cheetah the other day and noticed the Clan ER PPC only does 10 damage instead of 15. Was this weapon too OP and they nerfed it? I've tried to "balance" games/tournaments in megamek with IS vs Clan before and it just never works out very well. The battle value score does not tell all and they really upset things when introducing the Clans but, I still like them.

And I read we used to have Long Toms before and was used to club disorganized baby seals. Did we have thumpers, snipers, thunderbolt missiles, and arrow IV as well?



Longtoms were one of the all time dumbest, but at the same time most hilarious things ever implemented into the game.

Basically how it worked was in FP, attackers would have "random" Long Tom rounds fired at them (I can't remember the time interval). It wasn't exactly random though, they would fire at the largest blob of attackers, so the strategy was whenever you saw the "rounds incoming" you'd scatter and hope you weren't in proximity to enough friends to get shot at because you would die.

However, that also made for some pretty entertaining strategies where you'd all blob up around the enemy and the LT would still fire and end up hitting them too. Like most PGI decisions it was a potentially cool idea utterly murderized by poor implementation and general lack of awareness of game mechanics. MWO has a long history of stuff like this, it would need more than a few paragraphs to go over.

Just ask Le Boeuf





Now as to Clan ER peeps, they do splash damage. Tbh I dunno if it's actually listed anywhere in mechlab or any tooltips but they do 10 damage to the component you hit and 2.5 damage to the two components surrounding it.

#110 martian

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 04:17 AM

View Postthievingmagpi, on 19 January 2020 - 01:11 PM, said:

Longtoms were one of the all time dumbest, but at the same time most hilarious things ever implemented into the game.

Yeah, Long Tom with the effects of a tactical nuclear warhead. I remember that ... Posted Image

View Postthievingmagpi, on 19 January 2020 - 01:11 PM, said:

Like most PGI decisions it was a potentially cool idea utterly murderized by poor implementation and general lack of awareness of game mechanics.

This exactly.

And the saddest thing is that even if PGI can see that their cool ideas do not work as intended (or do not work at all), it takes often weeks or months for PGI to change them. Usually PGI simply does no changes at all.

1) Spawn points on Frozen City (Charlie Lance - Assault Mechs)
2) Incursion game mode - never played as intended; even if played as intended, nobody using the "Air Control" option, etc.
3) Escort game mode
4) Community Warfare
...

As you said, too many fails to list them all. Posted Image

#111 FRAGTAST1C

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 05:31 AM

View PostBLOODWOLF333, on 19 January 2020 - 12:49 PM, said:

I was building a "Shard" Arctic Cheetah the other day and noticed the Clan ER PPC only does 10 damage instead of 15. Was this weapon too OP and they nerfed it?


C-ERPPCs do 15 damage. It's split as 10 pinpoint and 5 splash damage, which is further split up as half to two adjacent components.

#112 BLOODWOLF333

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 05:12 PM

View Postmartian, on 20 January 2020 - 04:17 AM, said:

...
2) Incursion game mode - never played as intended; even if played as intended, nobody using the "Air Control" option, etc.
...


What is that Air Control tower for anyways? Every time I've played Incursion I'm in the Wolfhound so I just work on keeping the radar tower fueled because no one else will (have learned to not expect or depend on your teammates to actually work with you or support you in QP).

And if Im spectating and I see someone who just blatantly shoots his own teammate who has a Piranha circling him as an example (they have shot me in the back as well in previous games) is that a reportable offense? Should I instead blow up on his ***? Or is it not their fault since their aim-bot doesnt know if an ally is in front of the target or not?

How can you tell if a loser is using aim-bot? And have also had players call out others on the opfor for cheating because we were shooting their mech (Corsair) and I guess it was doing nothing to that player's mech but, I couldn't say one way or the other so I did not join in reporting them. Is that even possible to cheat and make your mech invulnerable or increase it's armor past max or something in the XML files?

Side note: even though the Ultra AC/20 can do more dps than the normal AC/20 I have been having way more success with the single 20 damage to one location AC/20 instead of the Ultra. And the psychological effect it has on players from the ragdoll shaking and noise I enjoy a lot more. Either makes them panic and hide, stop shooting my teammates, or at least turn their attention to me if I'm in the Atlas and playing the tank role. Same with PPCs, it knocks them around even though lasers would give me a higher alpha I just like these instant hard hitting weapons way more than what the meta builds have equipped for my mech variants.

#113 Vxheous

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 06:33 PM

View PostBLOODWOLF333, on 20 January 2020 - 05:12 PM, said:


What is that Air Control tower for anyways? Every time I've played Incursion I'm in the Wolfhound so I just work on keeping the radar tower fueled because no one else will (have learned to not expect or depend on your teammates to actually work with you or support you in QP).

And if Im spectating and I see someone who just blatantly shoots his own teammate who has a Piranha circling him as an example (they have shot me in the back as well in previous games) is that a reportable offense? Should I instead blow up on his ***? Or is it not their fault since their aim-bot doesnt know if an ally is in front of the target or not?

How can you tell if a loser is using aim-bot? And have also had players call out others on the opfor for cheating because we were shooting their mech (Corsair) and I guess it was doing nothing to that player's mech but, I couldn't say one way or the other so I did not join in reporting them. Is that even possible to cheat and make your mech invulnerable or increase it's armor past max or something in the XML files?

Side note: even though the Ultra AC/20 can do more dps than the normal AC/20 I have been having way more success with the single 20 damage to one location AC/20 instead of the Ultra. And the psychological effect it has on players from the ragdoll shaking and noise I enjoy a lot more. Either makes them panic and hide, stop shooting my teammates, or at least turn their attention to me if I'm in the Atlas and playing the tank role. Same with PPCs, it knocks them around even though lasers would give me a higher alpha I just like these instant hard hitting weapons way more than what the meta builds have equipped for my mech variants.


There's no armor hack, what you're seeing is potentially a hit-reg issue. Accidentally hitting a teammate while attempting to shoot a piranha is just part of what happens, that's part of the reason that certain lights want to circle really close (other reason being that the target being hugged might not be able to shoot down properly).

#114 justcallme A S H

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 06:36 PM

Realistically there is no hacking in this game.

Plenty of players claim it exists - to date not a single one of them have provided any video evidence.

Just "say" they "see" it.

#115 Prototelis

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 07:06 PM

Armor hax are certain mechs having ridiculous amounts of armor due to quirks.

A lot of what people see, that they think is cheating, is viewing small amounts of desync in spectator view.

I would say the next most common hackusation comes from being hit behind cover which is always one of these three things;

You aren't actually completely behind cover

The LOD you see up close has a different appearance than the one from far away but it's collision box is smaller than the close LOD and you can still be hit (alpine peaks is notable for this)

HSR. Usually this is a low latency player hitting you while you're exposed on their screen, but in cover on yours, and the server goes "seems legit"

Then there are people that complain about "wallhack" but aren't aware of a UAV or the target spotted mechanic.

And then there are people that complain about "aimbots" because they believe a certain level of accuracy impossible because they can't duplicate it.

#116 FRAGTAST1C

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 07:38 PM

View PostBLOODWOLF333, on 20 January 2020 - 05:12 PM, said:

Side note: even though the Ultra AC/20 can do more dps than the normal AC/20 I have been having way more success with the single 20 damage to one location AC/20 instead of the Ultra. And the psychological effect it has on players from the ragdoll shaking and noise I enjoy a lot more. Either makes them panic and hide, stop shooting my teammates, or at least turn their attention to me if I'm in the Atlas and playing the tank role. Same with PPCs, it knocks them around even though lasers would give me a higher alpha I just like these instant hard hitting weapons way more than what the meta builds have equipped for my mech variants.


IS AC20 fires a single slug whereas the C-AC20 fires multiple rounds just to do 20 damage. So, if you're playing a Clan mech, it's better to use UAC20 or just UAC10 to keep the heat down and the dps high despite sacrificing the burst damage. C-LBx20 is the one to go.

If you're in an Atlas, definitely AC20 and SRMs or even MRMs will do a lot of damage. You can even go with 1 Heavy Gauss and lots of MPLs, torso-twist like crazy and keep shooting the enemies. It takes a bit of getting used to with the MPLs and HGR cooldowns but it is very good once you get the timing and aiming down.

The IS PPCs aren't that good, imo. The PPC and HPPC have minimum range nonsense and the ERPPC have too much heat. Since the IS DHS takes up an additional slot, you can boat them in every component and thus lack the cooling that a Clan mech has. Use PPCs on IS mechs that are quirked for it, preferably with HSL +1 mechs. Otherwise, don't. That's just my personal opinion. Just taking 2 HPPC on a quirked Blackjack is better.

#117 BLOODWOLF333

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 08:09 PM

Yeah my Boar's Head(tank) has AC/20(4T ammo), MRM40(3T ammo), and Medium Laserx4, with 17 DHS, 300 STD engine (because I like to play by the original BT rules so I always do my engines in multiples of the mechs weight). Killed almost half the opfor last game with this murder beast lol i like it.

AS7-RS(C)(fire support) guass(2T ammo), LRM20 x2(3.5T ammo), ER MLaser x4, 16 DHS, and 300 STD engine.

ON1-K(C)(tank) AC/10(2.5T ammo), MRM30(2T ammo), MLaserx4, 12 DHS, 300 STD engine.

Protector(fire support) gauss(2T ammo), LRM15x2(2T ammo), ER MLaserx3, 10 DHS, 300 STD engine.

Sparky(scout) Heavy PPCx2, 13 DHS, 2 JJ's, 330XL engine. (might change Yosemite Sam, downgrading the PPCs and adding 2 ER MLaser I kinda don't like not having backup weapons)

GRF-1S(C)(fire support) LRM15x2(2T ammo), ER PPC, 10 DHS, 2 JJ's, 330XL engine.

WLF-1(C)(scout) PPC, ER MLaserx3, 12 DHS, BAP, 280XL engine. (might change PPC to a LLaser instead idk i like my PPCs)

Grinner(stealth) PPC, ER MLaserx3, ECM, stealth armor, 11 DHS, 280XL engine.

Once these are mastered I might get the clan heroes II collection but, idk. Im pretty sure I want the hero Arctic Cheetah at least and that pack has it. Also do want the Shadow Cat, that mech is always a menace in every game.

#118 justcallme A S H

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 09:35 PM

Yeah look, not trying to say the builds are bad in a wrong way...

But most of those builds are really bad. In fact they all are. Except the Sparky, 2HPPC is decent on it.

You lose games in the mechlab, and that is exactly your issue here.

Some of the mechs you have, will probably have proper builds here:
https://grimmechs.isengrim.org/

Edited by justcallme A S H, 20 January 2020 - 09:36 PM.


#119 FRAGTAST1C

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 10:00 PM

@BloodWolf333

Consider changing STD engines to LFE on your Orions. Also, I suggest removing LRM 15s on your Protector and equipping MRMs. You will lose about 4 kph by switching to LFE 280 and equipping Gauss (2.5t of ammo) and 2x MRM 30 (4t of ammo), strip armour off of the arms, slightly in the legs and some in the head. You'll be moving at 60kph and can keep up with the Charlie lance easily.

If you don't mind not fully utilizing the weapon quirks, an LBx10 (2 or 2.5t of ammo) + 2 MRM30 (4t of ammo), LFE 300 + 2DHS in it (totalling to 12) would be a way better build. The LBx 10 and MRMs synergise very nicely with range and you can easily manage heat after alpha striking 3 times by simply using the LBx 10 for a bit (it fires fast anyway). You can drop to a smaller MRMs and using an AC20.

Regarding the Wolfhounds, definitely change the Grinner. If you want Stealth, then use MLs. The Grinner is agile, has lots of armour and can easily take a bit of damage. ECM + 5 MPLs is much, much better.

As for your Atlas, try not to bring LRMs on it. AC20 + 2 MRM 30 is much, much better. You could try 2x MRM 30 + LBx20 with a STD 325 and 14 DHS and even have room for an AMS with 1t of ammo for it. The Boar's Head, although I don't have it, it might do better with UAC 20 + MRM 40 + 6 MLs with a LFE325 and 16 DHS. You could try a Heavy Gauss Rifle and 6 MPLs with STD 350 and 16DHS or drop to STD 325 and add more armour.

#120 justcallme A S H

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 10:03 PM

Try some of these

ON1-K
ON1-K, cooler version ON1-K

WLF-1

GRINNER

KEEPER





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