228 replies to this topic

[VonBruinwald]

killzone1, on 24 January 2020 - 01:37 PM, said:

The problem is it becomes a game of peek and poke so you need high damage accurate quick weapons, and doesn't matter about the heat generated since you poke real quick and then hide. I get why it works so well, but if you don't adapt and go with it you get cored in like 2 seconds.

Only when you get caught out. If you want to brawl hang back a bit at the start. Sure it can be frustrating when there's people actively engaging with pokes/lurms but use that time to observe both tactics used and the flow of battle. I run an LBX-20 Cicada, trust me, any 'mech can work if you don't get caught in someone elses game.

[Prototelis]

killzone1, on 24 January 2020 - 01:37 PM, said:

The problem is it becomes a game of peek and poke

This is called trading. It's a best practice.

Even with a meta that is skewed more towards high DPS than high alpha it is still a best practice.

Consider learning why mitigating the amount of return fire you take is as important as delivering damage and how this is relevant to map control.

Edited by Prototelis, 24 January 2020 - 06:32 PM.

[killzone1]

Prototelis, on 24 January 2020 - 02:21 PM, said:

This is called trading. It's a best practice.

Totally agree. But I just find it boring compared to the play style of the lower tiers.

[Prototelis]

The play style of lower tiers is "stand there and get **** on."

I know. I made an account specifically to test the two tier differential and exactly how difficult it is to down in PSR.

[Horseman]

BLOODWOLF333, on 24 January 2020 - 06:15 PM, said:

I have I think 48 days left of premium time from buying the bundles of the griffin, orion, and atlas.

Ouch. The old-style bundles aren't really a good investment. They tend to be quite expensive (other than light mechs) compared to the current-style mechpacks which are $15 for lights and $20 for anything else including assaults. The bundles also don't count towards the loyalty program

Quote

I have yet to pull that off, hitting every mech on the enemy team. I tend to get focused on a target or whoever is the biggest threat to my team at that moment. Will try this tonight.

Generally if you have a shot you can take, take it. It's great if you keep in mind getting towards the most dangerous target, but don't hold your fire just because you don't have a shot on that one.

Quote

Always, seen it repeated to death on these forums and now it just annoys me when spectating and I see teammates who don't target enemies that they are shooting at. I will always lock-on(mouse2) and then target spotted (mouse3) as often as I can because I have seen that I am able to kinda manipulate/help direct the team's fire when I do that.

If you see a group of enemy mechs early into the match, SPAM R. First lock - no matter how brief - gets you a Scouting bonus worth some match score and C-Bills.

Quote

Yeah I've noticed these events always have one reward where part of the requirements are shooting down missiles. Otherwise I dont have any mechs that can carry more than one AMS so, I usually dont run it.

Get a NVA-S, build an AMS Nova (6 ERuL, 6 SPL, 3xAMS) and go to town. Short range, but it's useful as a support boat and as a brawler when the match progresses to that stage.

killzone1, on 24 January 2020 - 06:44 PM, said:

Totally agree. But I just find it boring compared to the play style of the lower tiers.

What play style? PGI's VIP AI had more intelligence than I've seen in lower tiers on both sides combined.
Again, it's just a matter of picking when and where you engage. Keep yourself out of fire, let the traders do their job, then pounce on weakened or isolated enemies and earn your keep.

Edited by Horseman, 25 January 2020 - 04:16 AM.

[killzone1]

Prototelis, on 24 January 2020 - 08:15 PM, said:

The play style of lower tiers is "stand there and get **** on."

I know. I made an account specifically to test the two tier differential and exactly how difficult it is to down in PSR.

In Tier 5 yeah. But the biggest difference I noticed between 2 and 3 was in the builds. In Tier 2, if you pop out you get insta killed by lasers to the torso even if your in an assault mech due to the precision weaponry of the builds.

[Prototelis]

There isn't a real functional difference between tier 2 and 3.


There is a two tier differential, most of the games remaining population is tier 3+.

You start playing the majority of your games with Tier 1 opponents as soon as you hit 3. I've tested it multiple times, even at peak.

[martian]

Have you tried that Griffin with SRMs instead of MRMs?

[Horseman]

Your math on MRM recycle times is off, Bloodwolf. All MRM launchers stream out their missiles over a 0.5s duration. I've tested it myself a while back, in fact.

Edited by Horseman, 26 January 2020 - 03:55 AM.

[killzone1]

Prototelis, on 25 January 2020 - 07:27 PM, said:

There isn't a real functional difference between tier 2 and 3.


There is a two tier differential, most of the games remaining population is tier 3+.

You start playing the majority of your games with Tier 1 opponents as soon as you hit 3. I've tested it multiple times, even at peak.

That is true, but it depends on the time of day. I have noticed far more peek and poke oriented games with high damage surgical strikes once I hit T2. I have a second account that is T3 ( I'm sure it's luck of the draw too in terms of who you end up with in the matches), but out of the last 20 games on that account, there were not many. I'd say I notice a big difference in who ends up in my games between T2 and T3. Never any cadets in T2, occasionally a cadet on both sides in T3.

Edited by killzone1, 26 January 2020 - 05:51 AM.

[martian]

BLOODWOLF333, on 26 January 2020 - 11:23 AM, said:

Well it's only got two hardpoints for missile weapons so at most I could only have two SRM6 (about 26 damage) I can have a higher alpha with the MRM40 so, I went with the 40.

Sure, but SRMs fire instantly while MRMs fire in a stream. So with SRMs you can jump away, move your Mech or at least torso twist, while with MRMs you must wait until they all leave the launcher.

But of course, use what suits you best.

[Horseman]

BLOODWOLF333, on 26 January 2020 - 11:23 AM, said:

Ok, where do I find that information for LRMs too? I know SRMs just fire all at once and didn't think about the duration for MRM and LRMs

http://static.mwomer.../list/full.json - numfiring, volleydelay, volleysize
IS LRMs fire all at once (excepting specific hardpoint issues which I believe have been addressed a while ago)
Clan LRMs fire in streams, each missile 0.05s apart, so LRM5 takes .20s, LRM10 takes .45s, LRM15 takes .7s and LRM20 takes .95s

[VonBruinwald]

And the IS-LBX10 having a slower velocity than the 2, 5 and 20... I don't think people check these things.

[Grumpy Old Man]

I am beginning to believe you are overthinking this. ;-)

Personally, I put a mixture of Firepower, Survival, Operations and Sensors on all my Mechs. I always pick at least the left side of the Survival Tree, unless I play a very squishy light. Having more raw HP means at least the OPFOR need to spend more heat to kill me. So I spend anything between 15 and 30 points on that.

Second out of the gate if Firepower. I tend to pick more heat reduction nodes, as heat that is avoided does not need to be cooled by heatsinks. Plus weapon specific improvements. I tend to spend around 30-40 points on that.

Depending on build, 11 points into Operations, to help with cooling. If I have a lot of LBX or AC weapons, I may skip this.

Sensors 9-10 points. I always get 60% Radar Deprivation and often Seismic Sensor. On Light Mechs I often get 2 points of Seismic Sensors.

Also always 1 value point into Auxiliary. I usually take a UAV and an Artillery Strike.

I vary these first 4 trees depending on Mech build.

[Horseman]

BLOODWOLF333, on 26 January 2020 - 12:58 PM, said:

And the UAC/5 (IS) having a volley delay of 0.5 while all other UAC's have a delay of 0.11. Kinda weird.

IS UAC5 fires only one projectile, so the value doesn't really matter.

BLOODWOLF333, on 26 January 2020 - 01:26 PM, said:

On my "Skill Priorities" section for what trees to prioritize based on the build (scout, firesupport, brawler) am I correct on the order of what trees are more important or what should be tweaked?

You are wrong.
Ignore the Jump Jets tree completely, it's worthless.
Mobility tree is only worth it if you're a light or fast medium, and then only really for the Speed Tweak. Remember that these buffs are multipliers to your base stats - therefore, you will only get back your investment on a mech that's already agile.
Survival tree is mandatory left side armor (8 armor) for nearly anything. You can then spec to 9 armor, 10 armor or full survival. Note that AMS boats will want both AMS Overload nodes.
Operations is worth it for heat-capped builds that run a lot of heat sinks. 4 to 5 Cool Runs, in some builds you might want to add Heat Containment but it's NOT a priority.

Sensors tree boils down to the following "builds":

• Enhanced Zoom (for ERLL/Gauss/AC2 snipers and NOTHING else)
  
• Target Decay (for LRM boats)
  
• Radar Deprivation 60 / 100% (for lights and squishy fast mechs)
  
• Enhanced ECM (for anything with an ECM equipped)

Aux tree is usually 2x Strikes on anything - it's free damage - and then either UAVs for scouts or Cool Shots for anything else excepting builds which don't produce enough heat for more than 1x unupgraded coolshot to be necessary (I have a 2x UAC5 SHD, for example, which doesn't really heat up much; I'm not saying it's a great build - it's not - but on this SHD it's about the only one that fits the quirks)

Firepower tree will vary the most depending on your build.

• Pretty much anything with ammo-based weapons will want the corresponding ammo nodes.
  
• Heat capped builds will want Heat Gen (obviously) and avoid the Cooldown nodes. Cooldown capped builds will want the exact opposite.
  
• Long range snipers will want the range nodes.
  
• Most laser mechs will want the Laser Duration nodes.
  
• Projectile based weapons will want Velocity for better accuracy
  
• High explosive is to all purposes a dead node. It increases critical damage to equipment, but doesn't increase the damage you deal to structure.

You might also want to check out Tarogato's guide: https://mwomercs.com...ryhard-edition/

[Vxheous]

Grumpy Old Man, on 26 January 2020 - 01:55 PM, said:

I am beginning to believe you are overthinking this. ;-)

Personally, I put a mixture of Firepower, Survival, Operations and Sensors on all my Mechs. I always pick at least the left side of the Survival Tree, unless I play a very squishy light. Having more raw HP means at least the OPFOR need to spend more heat to kill me. So I spend anything between 15 and 30 points on that.

Second out of the gate if Firepower. I tend to pick more heat reduction nodes, as heat that is avoided does not need to be cooled by heatsinks. Plus weapon specific improvements. I tend to spend around 30-40 points on that.

Depending on build, 11 points into Operations, to help with cooling. If I have a lot of LBX or AC weapons, I may skip this.

Sensors 9-10 points. I always get 60% Radar Deprivation and often Seismic Sensor. On Light Mechs I often get 2 points of Seismic Sensors.

Also always 1 value point into Auxiliary. I usually take a UAV and an Artillery Strike.

I vary these first 4 trees depending on Mech build.

Here is the basic tree that I apply to basically 80-90% of my mechs, with very slight variations:

https://kitlaan.gitl...2211d#s=Weapons

It's 87/91 nodes assigned (with 4 nodes flex, to use for Adv zoom, or more cooldown nodes in weapons, etc).
This is the basic "hot build" tree. The Firepower tree has the best investment of all skill points, because there is literally no point used there that is useless (useless as in you're taking a point to unlock another point, not taking that point for the point itself, ops and agility tree being prime examples of waste for gain). +Range is always useful, -heatgen is always useful, -cooldown is always useful. Laser duration is useful if using lasers, if not, move those points to ballistic/missile ammo, and Jam chance/missile spread, depending on your weapons.

If it's a pure ballistic mech, then I would take the 18 nodes out of operations, and spread them out between more firepower and survival.

I never bother with Radar dep, I just use hard cover to stay away from missiles, and radar dep doesn't stop target wheel spotting, and any good player you come across will spam that target wheel for tracking anyways.

Edited by Vxheous, 26 January 2020 - 04:02 PM.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

Vxheous, on 26 January 2020 - 03:59 PM, said:

Here is the basic tree that I apply to basically 80-90% of my mechs, with very slight variations:

https://kitlaan.gitl...2211d#s=Weapons

It's 87/91 nodes assigned (with 4 nodes flex, to use for Adv zoom, or more cooldown nodes in weapons, etc).
This is the basic "hot build" tree. The Firepower tree has the best investment of all skill points, because there is literally no point used there that is useless (useless as in you're taking a point to unlock another point, not taking that point for the point itself, ops and agility tree being prime examples of waste for gain). +Range is always useful, -heatgen is always useful, -cooldown is always useful. Laser duration is useful if using lasers, if not, move those points to ballistic/missile ammo, and Jam chance/missile spread, depending on your weapons.

If it's a pure ballistic mech, then I would take the 18 nodes out of operations, and spread them out between more firepower and survival.

I never bother with Radar dep, I just use hard cover to stay away from missiles, and radar dep doesn't stop target wheel spotting, and any good player you come across will spam that target wheel for tracking anyways.

^
use that. most "bang for your buck" you can get out of the skillmaze.

[Crazycajun]

Been away from game for years...primarly because of team/sync drops against pugs.... finally come back to try the game and what the first game ? a clan drop/sync drop against my team of pugs...

nope.. /eject...

i had hoped that maybe the excuse for devs of this game had gotten round to neutering that. guess not

[Brauer]

BLOODWOLF333, on 26 January 2020 - 05:14 PM, said:

Yep I read that whole post when I first started messing with the skill tree. Thats why I value the heat buffs from the Operation tree and unlock it first. But, like with my scout mechs, the Wolfhounds, they depend on their speed and mobility for survival more than armor so, I value the mobility tree over the survival tree for them. I should NOT be trying to brawl in those mechs. Just hit and run, which sometimes I forget my role, get tunnel-vision and try to kill something and end up dying because that's not what my mech is for.

The survival tree is one of, if not the, highest priority trees. The longer you live the more chances you have to do damage and influence a match.

In the case of wolfhounds you add in that those mechs have armor quirks which are amplified by the skill tree, so you absolutely should be putting points into survival. IMO wolfhounds go fast enough without speed tweak.

Crazycajun, on 26 January 2020 - 07:12 PM, said:

Been away from game for years...primarly because of team/sync drops against pugs.... finally come back to try the game and what the first game ? a clan drop/sync drop against my team of pugs...

nope.. /eject...

i had hoped that maybe the excuse for devs of this game had gotten round to neutering that. guess not

So based on what you said you went into Faction Warfare, the team mode, and you got upset that there was a team on the other side?

Edited by Brauer, 27 January 2020 - 04:14 AM.

[FRAGTAST1C]

BLOODWOLF333, on 26 January 2020 - 05:14 PM, said:

Yep I read that whole post when I first started messing with the skill tree. Thats why I value the heat buffs from the Operation tree and unlock it first. But, like with my scout mechs, the Wolfhounds, they depend on their speed and mobility for survival more than armor so, I value the mobility tree over the survival tree for them. I should NOT be trying to brawl in those mechs. Just hit and run, which sometimes I forget my role, get tunnel-vision and try to kill something and end up dying because that's not what my mech is for.

The skill tree choice should reflect your role. But, the skill tree becomes automated, like, for laser vomit, you have one good way to pick the nodes, for missiles, there's one way, there is a dakka tree, etc., That being said, you should also consider amplifying the quirks that the mech has.

Consider building a scout mech based on the weapons you're bringing on it. If you're relying on long range weapons for peeking early on, you might not need speed tweak. You could do well with taking Armour nodes instead. If you're bringing MPLs, you can bring double coolshots, max armour and speed tweaks while absolutely needing 60% Radar Dep. You can easily manage the heat after 4 alpha strikes by using torso weapons split up into two different weapon groups and arm as another group and go back to your primary torso-arm weapon group again. A partial Cool Run tree will help while not consuming too many skill points to get the last two.

Edited by FRAGTAST1C, 26 January 2020 - 10:10 PM.