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About Clan Puls Lasers


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#81 Sniper09121986

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Posted 07 March 2020 - 06:13 AM

View PostVonBruinwald, on 07 March 2020 - 05:16 AM, said:

Who hasn't... apart from that dude at the top of Jarl's.


Well, I have never ever used more than 2*LRM20. I do run them on Timby or Mad Dog sometimes, and only for direct fire. It is the only way to make LRM work, and even then they need backup weapons. How people expect to win a game with this much damage they cannot even aim at a location is beyond me. Same with Clan AC spreading shells and week-long laser burn times. You can aim them all right, but it can simply be twisted off.

#82 Brauer

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Posted 07 March 2020 - 06:53 AM

View PostSniper09121986, on 07 March 2020 - 06:13 AM, said:


Well, I have never ever used more than 2*LRM20. I do run them on Timby or Mad Dog sometimes, and only for direct fire. It is the only way to make LRM work, and even then they need backup weapons. How people expect to win a game with this much damage they cannot even aim at a location is beyond me. Same with Clan AC spreading shells and week-long laser burn times. You can aim them all right, but it can simply be twisted off.


Clan uac2s work well boated, clan uac5s and 10s work really well together. Their damage can be placed reasonably well, even if they aren't as close to pinpoint as their IS counterparts.

If you specifically mean clan autocannons (not uacs or lbxs) they hardly ever make sense to bring, just take uacs instead.

Back to lrms, usually it makes sense to just bring as many as possible if you are going lurming. Clan side you can sneak in some micro lasers as close in defense, but committing much tonnage or heat to backups just makes your mech worse at it's sole purpose, which when lurming is to sandblast with as many tubes as possible.

#83 Sniper09121986

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Posted 07 March 2020 - 07:20 AM

View PostBrauer, on 07 March 2020 - 06:53 AM, said:

Clan uac2s work well boated, clan uac5s and 10s work really well together. Their damage can be placed reasonably well, even if they aren't as close to pinpoint as their IS counterparts.


True that, I use HBK-IIC to boat 2s (of both varieties), and the DPS is through the roof Posted Image About LRMs, maybe they MIGHT be put to use in comp as you describe, but I guess that requires massive teamwork and coordination that is simply nowhere to be found in public games, so it is literally in everyone's best interest to avoid boating them.

#84 Brauer

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Posted 07 March 2020 - 07:35 AM

View PostSniper09121986, on 07 March 2020 - 07:20 AM, said:


True that, I use HBK-IIC to boat 2s (of both varieties), and the DPS is through the roof Posted Image About LRMs, maybe they MIGHT be put to use in comp as you describe, but I guess that requires massive teamwork and coordination that is simply nowhere to be found in public games, so it is literally in everyone's best interest to avoid boating them.


It wasn't that much teamwork, and the a similar build with a smaller engine and more ammo easily puts up big numbers in QP. It's still sandblasting, but if you're going to sandblast you may as well turn it to 11.

#85 FryDeeper

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Posted 07 March 2020 - 08:27 AM

cMPLs used to have ranges of 330/660m, or something along those lines. They were far too effective at medium range - basically the same range profile as an IS LPL. With the shorter max range they're now more of a short-range weapon, which is what they should be.

cLPL's are borderline overpowered in terms of effective range (64% longer than IS LPL). Compare that to a cERLL which only has 10% greater range than its IS counterpart.

#86 Arnold The Governator

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Posted 07 March 2020 - 10:05 AM

View PostDeepfryer, on 07 March 2020 - 08:27 AM, said:

cLPL's are borderline overpowered in terms of effective range (64% longer than IS LPL). Compare that to a cERLL which only has 10% greater range than its IS counterpart.

That is really the only thing that the cLPL's have going for them. Range. Everything else they are trash in. The heat gen and ghost heat build up is absurd. If they start nerfing the range of cLPL's, then PGI will be taking away the last thing of identity that weapon system has going for it. IS LPL's will always run cooler and will be more effective in brawling despite the range limitations.

#87 VonBruinwald

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Posted 07 March 2020 - 01:03 PM

View PostArnold The Governator, on 07 March 2020 - 10:05 AM, said:

That is really the only thing that the cLPL's have going for them. Range. Everything else they are trash in. The heat gen and ghost heat build up is absurd. If they start nerfing the range of cLPL's, then PGI will be taking away the last thing of identity that weapon system has going for it.


cLPL
  • 6 tons, 2 slots
  • HSL +2
  • 12 dmg
  • 10 heat
  • 600/840 range
SnPPC
  • 6 tons, 2 slots
  • HSL +2
  • 10 dmg
  • 10 heat
  • 270/630 range
And you think your ClanTech's trash?

Buff the SnPPC to 630/720 and we'd have the nearest thing to a pair of parallel weapons in the game with the key difference being hitscan vs. ppfld.

Or we could nerf the cLPL to 360/630 and both cry.

#88 Prototelis

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Posted 07 March 2020 - 01:45 PM

A range buffed snub nose basically makes standard PPCs completely irrelevant. I am completely against a range buff. What I would like to see instead is a heat buff, giving snubs a distinct role as a short to mid range PPFLD application that isn't ammo dependent but has manageable heat.

#89 VonBruinwald

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Posted 07 March 2020 - 02:15 PM

View PostPrototelis, on 07 March 2020 - 01:45 PM, said:

A range buffed snub nose basically makes standard PPCs completely irrelevant. I am completely against a range buff. What I would like to see instead is a heat buff, giving snubs a distinct role as a short to mid range PPFLD application that isn't ammo dependent but has manageable heat.


A range buff keeps it inline with lore and makes it a worthy sidegrade to the LPL.

Vs. the standard it is still hotter (+0.5) and if you were going to drop the heat you'd have to make it <8 so it's not outdone by a couple of MPL's. Which is quite a buff! Never mind that it's optimum is still 270m which pretty much isolates it to short range.

#90 FupDup

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Posted 07 March 2020 - 02:33 PM

View PostVonBruinwald, on 07 March 2020 - 02:15 PM, said:


A range buff keeps it inline with lore and makes it a worthy sidegrade to the LPL.

Vs. the standard it is still hotter (+0.5) and if you were going to drop the heat you'd have to make it <8 so it's not outdone by a couple of MPL's. Which is quite a buff! Never mind that it's optimum is still 270m which pretty much isolates it to short range.

For the "lore" of SNPPCs their damage starts going down right after you hit 270 meters, which is also how MWO does it. It's not supposed to do 10 damage at 21 hexes.

The heat difference of 0.5 would not be enough for the regular PPC to remain relevant against a 630-optimal SNPPC. No min range, 1 ton lighter, 1 slot smaller, and now a lot more range for a teeny bit more heat is just a straight upgrade.

#91 VonBruinwald

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Posted 07 March 2020 - 03:03 PM

View PostFupDup, on 07 March 2020 - 02:33 PM, said:

For the "lore" of SNPPCs their damage starts going down right after you hit 270 meters, which is also how MWO does it. It's not supposed to do 10 damage at 21 hexes.

The heat difference of 0.5 would not be enough for the regular PPC to remain relevant against a 630-optimal SNPPC. No min range, 1 ton lighter, 1 slot smaller, and now a lot more range for a teeny bit more heat is just a straight upgrade.


The lore puts their optimal 50% further than the Std. with damage drop off beyond that.

Even if we're counting hexes it should be doing 5 damage at 450m, currently it does half of that. Never mind the extreme range brackets which PGI seems to use for every other weapon which means it should hit to 780m.

Taking the Snub to 540-780m wouldn't displace the Std. (Long range vs no minimum) and would be an acceptable middle ground.

#92 Prototelis

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Posted 07 March 2020 - 03:05 PM

View PostVonBruinwald, on 07 March 2020 - 02:15 PM, said:


A range buff keeps it inline with lore and makes it a worthy sidegrade to the LPL.



Lore bad. It just makes the snub nose a better standard PPC, an already overlooked and bad weapon.

#93 VonBruinwald

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Posted 07 March 2020 - 03:08 PM

View PostPrototelis, on 07 March 2020 - 03:05 PM, said:


Lore bad. It just makes the snub nose a better standard PPC, an already overlooked and bad weapon.


I was going to suggest buffing the Standard at the same time but buffing everything is never a good answer.

#94 FupDup

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Posted 07 March 2020 - 03:09 PM

View PostVonBruinwald, on 07 March 2020 - 03:03 PM, said:

The lore puts their optimal 50% further than the Std. with damage drop off beyond that.

You're thinking of the "short" range bracket, not optimal. I'm defining optimal as the max range at which the weapon still does full damage. Usually this is the same as the "long" range but there are exceptions like the Snubber.

View PostVonBruinwald, on 07 March 2020 - 03:03 PM, said:

Even if we're counting hexes it should be doing 5 damage at 450m, currently it does half of that. Never mind the extreme range brackets which PGI seems to use for every other weapon which means it should hit to 780m.

Taking the Snub to 540-780m wouldn't displace the Std. (Long range vs no minimum) and would be an acceptable middle ground.

That would totally replace the Std. The regular PPC isn't fast enough velocity-wise to be actually good beyond that distance, and even if that were remedied there's also the issue of most maps and situations just not allowing you to fully leverage that range. I'd rather take some ERLLs for extreme-range energy snipage.

The SNPPC's unique attribute is being the brawliest PPC, so any buffs to it should focus on making it brawlier (like heat or firing rate).

#95 Prototelis

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Posted 07 March 2020 - 03:13 PM

It's range profile is fine, and is more in line with the intent of being a short-mid range weapon. It really just needs lower heat so it can compete with or enhance combinations of mid range ballistics.

Where as the normal PPC should enjoy lower cool down or something to differentiate it against the ERPPC as trading higher DPS and a shorter range against the ERPPC for the possibility of being zoned.

Edited by Prototelis, 07 March 2020 - 03:14 PM.


#96 FupDup

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Posted 07 March 2020 - 03:16 PM

View PostPrototelis, on 07 March 2020 - 03:13 PM, said:

Where as the normal PPC should enjoy lower cool down or something to differentiate it against the ERPPC as trading higher DPS and a shorter range against the ERPPC for the possibility of being zoned.

I think the LPPC is the one that should get the faster firing rate, while keeping its inferior damage-per-heat ratio and lower Ghost Heat cap to keep it from replacing normal Peepers.

#97 Prototelis

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Posted 07 March 2020 - 03:21 PM

Yeah, LPPC should be the mid range deeps-centric pp. LPPCs are essentially one of the worst and most pointless weapons in the game right now.

I think the range on the snub is fine, it just needs a little heat boost.

Edited by Prototelis, 07 March 2020 - 03:21 PM.


#98 Sniper09121986

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Posted 07 March 2020 - 03:21 PM

View PostVonBruinwald, on 07 March 2020 - 03:03 PM, said:

Taking the Snub to 540-780m wouldn't displace the Std. (Long range vs no minimum) and would be an acceptable middle ground.


That would put it into direct competition with ISLPL. With the same range the snub would be one ton lighter. Sure, the LPL would have better cooling, but the snub does pinpoint damage at once and has crit bonus.

#99 Prototelis

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Posted 07 March 2020 - 03:23 PM

LPL duration is close enough to pinpoint that it isn't an issue to a longer range snub.

The issue is that it renders an already pointless PPC especially more pointless.

#100 VonBruinwald

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Posted 07 March 2020 - 03:26 PM

View PostSniper09121986, on 07 March 2020 - 03:21 PM, said:

That would put it into direct competition with ISLPL. With the same range the snub would be one ton lighter. Sure, the LPL would have better cooling, but the snub does pinpoint damage at once and has crit bonus.


LPL - Faster cooldown, lower heat, hitscan, +1 ton
SnPPC - PPFLD, projectile travel time, -1 ton

That makes for a good side-grade. Side grades = more build variety.





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