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Any Theories On Why Anti Nascar Is So Effective?


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#41 Kotzi

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 12:41 AM

Nascar only works when both teams nascar. If OPFOR is clever and use all their ressources they will always win, because deathblob moving "left" will always kill enemy team that is splitt. And if you cant win when having outgunned and outnumbered the enemy then Nascar aint the problem anyway.

#42 VonBruinwald

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 05:40 AM

View PostOZHomerOZ, on 22 March 2020 - 10:24 PM, said:

In general guys who complain without giving an alternative approach maybe without realising it
Sow seeds of confusion among the ranks. Don't do this, don't do that, WHAT CAN I DO THEN!


So much this!

#43 FRAGTAST1C

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 06:10 AM

View PostOZHomerOZ, on 22 March 2020 - 10:24 PM, said:

Just mute them and pretend it never happened.
In general guys who complain without giving an alternative approach maybe without realising it
Sow seeds of confusion among the ranks. Don't do this, don't do that, WHAT CAN I DO THEN!


If people are about to do stupid things like drop to the low ground in Canyon or go to the basement in HPG or give up the power position in Roubellite or go into the death valley in Tourmaline, etc., all I can do is tell them to not do that. I don't have time to give them an "alternative" Posted Image

#44 General Solo

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 06:27 AM

No, Dont do that Muhahaha Posted Image

#45 Biomechtric

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 07:25 AM

View PostXmith, on 22 March 2020 - 09:44 PM, said:

The match is lost once a teammate complains about nascar.

Maybe they wouldn't lose if they sent some help to the rear??
Just an idea to throw out there.
NASCAR in MWO is not a tactic, it's a crowd mentality thing. It happens in the animal kingdom as well, when the confusion begins so do the circles of panic.

#46 Brauer

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 07:50 AM

View PostBiomechtric, on 23 March 2020 - 07:25 AM, said:

Maybe they wouldn't lose if they sent some help to the rear??
Just an idea to throw out there.
NASCAR in MWO is not a tactic, it's a crowd mentality thing. It happens in the animal kingdom as well, when the confusion begins so do the circles of panic.


This typically just results in the death of the would-be savior and the snowball effect accelerating. There are two relatively simple "solutions" to this problem.

The first is to eat the other team's tail faster than they eat yours. This is just standard nascar, 1 team has to win, you might get lucky and be that team.

The second is to get your whole team to turn and form an ad hoc firing line to decimate the enemy nascar. This is pretty unreliable, but if the whole team turns it can be an easy win.

Now before your slowest/worst pathing/longest AFK player starts getting hammered you can either have your team do the counter nascar, or personally take a power position that will allow you to dish out damage on the enemy nascar. That takes pre-planning though, and is not necessarily going to work once your tail has been caught.

#47 Biomechtric

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 08:19 AM

View PostBrauer, on 23 March 2020 - 07:50 AM, said:


This typically just results in the death of the would-be savior and the snowball effect accelerating. There are two relatively simple "solutions" to this problem.

The first is to eat the other team's tail faster than they eat yours. This is just standard nascar, 1 team has to win, you might get lucky and be that team.

The second is to get your whole team to turn and form an ad hoc firing line to decimate the enemy nascar. This is pretty unreliable, but if the whole team turns it can be an easy win.

Now before your slowest/worst pathing/longest AFK player starts getting hammered you can either have your team do the counter nascar, or personally take a power position that will allow you to dish out damage on the enemy nascar. That takes pre-planning though, and is not necessarily going to work once your tail has been caught.

It's still a bunch of panicked, clueless folks running in circles cos they can't think for themselves.
Nope, I'm not an *******, just a realist.

#48 K O Z A K

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 08:29 AM

View PostBiomechtric, on 23 March 2020 - 08:19 AM, said:

It's still a bunch of panicked, clueless folks running in circles cos they can't think for themselves.
Nope, I'm not an *******, just a realist.


yes, that's what qp is, if you don't like it other modes are available in this game: FP, solaris, comp

#49 Brauer

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 08:55 AM

View PostHazeclaw, on 23 March 2020 - 08:29 AM, said:


yes, that's what qp is, if you don't like it other modes are available in this game: FP, solaris, comp


Let's be real, FP is still often pretty brainless (especially if you are PUGing), it's just a different variety. Granted, it does carry the benefit that if you group up with some decent players you can be more assured that people will bring reasonably effective builds, know how to open a gate, and generally do what they need to do. However, there's a balance there because often your opposition will be embarrassingly ineffective.

View PostBiomechtric, on 23 March 2020 - 08:19 AM, said:

It's still a bunch of panicked, clueless folks running in circles cos they can't think for themselves.
Nope, I'm not an *******, just a realist.


I never said that the average QP game wasn't just a furious rotation around the center and a collection of players who dropped even though they don't want to fight. I thought my response was pretty realistic about the average level of strategy in a QP.

#50 K O Z A K

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 09:00 AM

There are a lot of groups playing, even when I drop solo it's hardly ever a solo drop, it's usually like a few small groups and a few solos, or a large group vs a few smaller groups, etc. Unlike qp players will in the vast majority of drops not turn right and run away the second they encounter the enemy for which there are a variety of reasons that have all been discussed more than enough

#51 Brauer

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 09:04 AM

View PostHazeclaw, on 23 March 2020 - 09:00 AM, said:

There are a lot of groups playing, even when I drop solo it's hardly ever a solo drop, it's usually like a few small groups and a few solos, or a large group vs a few smaller groups, etc. Unlike qp players will in the vast majority of drops not turn right and run away the second they encounter the enemy for which there are a variety of reasons that have all been discussed more than enough


I've dropped with 1 to 2 other players a bit recently, possibly not as often as you, and maybe my luck has just been bad. I've seen some large groups on the other side, but outside of maybe 1 match we've been matched with players who for the most part manage less than 1K and bring utterly unsuitable builds (LRMs to Vitric attack ftw!) and drop light. It's a small sample, and maybe my luck has just been bad, but around NA prime I'd be much happier dropping in a 4 to 6 man, even if it reduces the farm.

Most players in FP do attempt to fight, which is (as you said) a nice difference from QP.

#52 K O Z A K

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 09:32 AM

Oh there are absolutely still bad players playing bad mechs badly in FP, but I find the overall level of incompetence to be lower and lack of nascar to be much less frustrating

#53 Dimento Graven

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 09:43 AM

View PostPeace2U, on 16 March 2020 - 10:04 PM, said:

I have been playing more than normal in an attempt to achieve enough points to earn the prize for this special event (not likely going to make it due to the high hours of grinding required) and I have noticed a trend for teams to go clockwise on most maps.
This has resulted in a much higher percentage of wins and I'm trying to figure out why it is easier to win doing anti nascar.
I personally suspect that doing counter clockwise rotation is inbred into the player base and if the fast lights come swinging around a bend to find the assaults facing them they back off, causing a traffic backup of mechs in a nice death ball.
Just speculation, but I would like to hear other thoughts as to why clockwise rotation seems to disrupt the enemy team battle plan.
Peace
Actually completely false premis.

For every match where both sides NASCAR, ONE side will always lose.

Therefore, it's only 'effective' 50% of the time, because only half the teams doing it will actually win, and usually, by accident.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 23 March 2020 - 09:43 AM.


#54 K O Z A K

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 10:29 AM

View PostDimento Graven, on 23 March 2020 - 09:43 AM, said:

Therefore, it's only 'effective' 50% of the time, because only half the teams doing it will actually win, and usually, by accident.


oh boy, now you've done it

#55 VonBruinwald

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 10:40 AM

View PostDimento Graven, on 23 March 2020 - 09:43 AM, said:

For every match where both sides NASCAR, ONE side will always lose.

Therefore, it's only 'effective' 50% of the time, because only half the teams doing it will actually win


View PostHazeclaw, on 23 March 2020 - 10:29 AM, said:

oh boy, now you've done it


Posted Image

#56 Magical Bacon

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 12:26 PM

Anti-nascar works because you are actually grouping up and shooting at the enemy instead of running away from it. And shooting the enemy greatly increases the chances of winning while running away reduces it (with exceptions of intentionally (or even accidentally) drawing enemies away from formations while wasting their firepower and heat management).

But that's just a theory from my own personal experiences and observations.

#57 K O Z A K

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 12:49 PM

View PostMagical Bacon, on 23 March 2020 - 12:26 PM, said:

shooting the enemy greatly increases the chances of winning


pretty solid theory, lol

#58 Brauer

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 01:16 PM

View PostHazeclaw, on 23 March 2020 - 12:49 PM, said:


pretty solid theory, lol


You can also add in a bit of selection bias. You can't really have "counter nascar" unless the team actually follows a call to counter-nascar, so any team doing counter-nascar is already communicating and working together more efficiently than the average QP team.

Unless we want to count the lone assault attempting to counter nascar and getting absolutely blasted as a failed attempt at counter-nascar.

#59 Kubernetes

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 03:43 PM

View PostBiomechtric, on 23 March 2020 - 07:25 AM, said:


NASCAR in MWO is not a tactic, it's a crowd mentality thing.


Which is why works so well. You can stan for the superiority of "tactics," but that requires communication and cooperation, whereas the "crowd mentality thing" flows naturally without direction or coordination. Tactics work when you've got a real team committed them, which means they're worthless in QP.

Counter-nascar? Sure it works -- when you get people to do it. The big risk of calling for counter-nascar is if a significant number of players don't agree or aren't paying attention to comms (or don't even have voip enabled). This happens a lot. The call goes out, seven stay, and five go running off doing their own thing. Result: crushing loss. In my experience, it's just a much a gamble as nascar itself.

#60 Kotzi

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 12:14 AM

Knowing where the enemy will be 90% of the time and acting accordingly doesnt need a higher degree in tactics. Lets be honest, those people dont lack tactics they just want the rest as meatshields while they can do their easy damage. There are people who think beeing high on a list > winning the game. And i have seen groups of 3+ Mechs wrecking the OPFOR or at least dishing out enough damage to assure the victory, but that might have changed of course.





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