297 replies to this topic

[D U N E]

Arguably you are in a minority, the only time I enjoy losing is if I see an improvement that will allow me to eventually win. - Saying many in the player-base resort to calling people cheaters, and finding creative insults for one another. I am going to assume not everyone likes losing.
Also losing well, and being decimated are two different kinds of game play. Constant one sided stomps aren't fun, but constant 11-12 matches can be fun.

Sounds like you don't understand the intensity that the situation could become with the current match making system and the skill contrast between even the 96% to the 100% in this game.

[Larsh]

justcallme A S H, on 26 April 2020 - 01:34 PM, said:

Really? Just look at top player stats.

There cannot be any scepticism when it is all publicly available data.



Why though?

Lets remember the great "updates" the devs brought us in the last few years

• Long Tom,
  
• "Volumetric rescale" (which was not volumetric).
  
• Engine Desync,
  
• Skill Tree(Maze).
  
• De-quirken-ing as part of #3 & #4.

There is a lot more I could add to this list. Each and every, single one, can be plotted on the Population Graphs for the player-base and there are extremely distinct drops in population that is directly correlated to the changes.

So while the Devs need to control it - they should not implement yet another thing that will essentially break MWO for the last time. There is not the population left to absorb another hit.

Just last night I think we went 7-0 in GroupQ (3 friends + myself). Most were 8-0 games.

Do you think people kept playing after they were dunked 8-0?

Of course not. 2 of groups were streaming and they started getting dunked on by a 4man and pretty quickly gave up. So 16 players or so said they essentially don't want to lose all night to better groups.

The minority of you who claim that "losing is ok, losing is fun, losing wont make us leave"... Might be OK for that minority. It is definitely not the majority view from what I've seen in my 1,000s of games. So I will stand by the statement that stomps are not OK, no one enjoys them and they will NUKE the playerbase.

Stomps will also be much more frequent if Groups are allowed into SoloQ. That is simply indisputable. How the majority wins from that situation, looking at it objectively, I don't know/understand.

Ok point taken Ash. As much as we butt heads here I do listen and don't discount what you say. But the fact that you think that my group might be a minority is something you need to think about. I've decided to come here to the forums is because the side of my "minority" never makes our voice heard here. Many from my side don't come here because of the decisiveness that this area builds.

But, if the devs were to test this idea I'm not going to say no. And like I said before, I don't have an ego to bruise coming here. And if we are wrong in all this like you say, we're welcome to admit it. It's rather we want to say we tried instead of seeing MWO decline in to the slump that its already taken.

Edited by Larsh, 26 April 2020 - 01:49 PM.

[Vxheous]

Larsh, on 26 April 2020 - 01:44 PM, said:

Ok point taken Ash. As much as we butt heads here I do listen and don't discount what you say. But the fact that you think that my group might be a minority is something you need to think about. I've decided to come here to the forums is because the side of my "minority" never makes our voice heard here. Many from my side don't come here because of the decisiveness that thus area builds.

But, if the devs were to test this idea I'm not going to say no. And like I said before, I don't have an ego to bruise coming here. And if we are wrong in all this like you say, we're welcome to admit it. It's rather we want to say we tried instead of seeing MWO decline in to the slump that its already taken.

We can see the evidence though, across multiple streamer groups that will quit playing anything group queue the moment they come across "comp player groups". They all go back to the refuge that is solo queue, and sync drop. If PGI takes away that refuge that is solo queue by merging the queues, these players will get demoralized, and stop playing. It happens ALL THE TIME (I don't want to name names and shame these streamer groups)

[Anomalocaris]

Vxheous, on 26 April 2020 - 01:51 PM, said:

They all go back to the refuge that is solo queue, and sync drop.

So this is why I've been so many sync drops the last couple weeks. Interesting. Had one group sync a 5 man in 3 straight matches of mine, twice dropping all 5 on one side. In another match I had a 5-man and 2 3-man units sync drop (but they were all split between sides). I asked in comms why they were syncing instead of group dropping with so many groups online at one time. No answer at the time, but now I know......

[Larsh]

Totally random topic on things too. Didn't PGI include a comp drop area for comp players? I'm far from comp so I wasn't sure what the word is on this.

[MisterSomaru]

Larsh, on 26 April 2020 - 01:57 PM, said:

Totally random topic on things too. Didn't PGI include a comp drop area for comp players? I'm far from comp so I wasn't sure what the word is on this.

It's only for designated times of year.

[Larsh]

Anomalocaris, on 26 April 2020 - 01:55 PM, said:

So this is why I've been so many sync drops the last couple weeks. Interesting. Had one group sync a 5 man in 3 straight matches of mine, twice dropping all 5 on one side. In another match I had a 5-man and 2 3-man units sync drop (but they were all split between sides). I asked in comms why they were syncing instead of group dropping with so many groups online at one time. No answer at the time, but now I know......

We sync since we can't get a dedicated 12 man since that seems to be the only way to do group drops without waiting 10 min between each match. It splits us up, so we take what we can

[Vxheous]

Anomalocaris, on 26 April 2020 - 01:55 PM, said:

So this is why I've been so many sync drops the last couple weeks. Interesting. Had one group sync a 5 man in 3 straight matches of mine, twice dropping all 5 on one side. In another match I had a 5-man and 2 3-man units sync drop (but they were all split between sides). I asked in comms why they were syncing instead of group dropping with so many groups online at one time. No answer at the time, but now I know......

Sync drops are a byproduct of bad/middle skilled groups that got stomped in group queue, over and over, by good groups/Tier up/etc, from about 2018. These groups eventually stopped group queuing, and started sync dropping, which reduced the group queue population (along with natural loss of player base). Eventually, even the good groups couldn't get matches in group queue anymore due to lack of playerbase, so those players either quit, went to play faction, or sync dropped themselves. Sync dropping has been a negative feedback loop against group queue for awhile now.

[Rogard]

I love this idea and changing up to max 4 man groups and changing up the drops and so forth would be Amazing and really bring back the strategy of the game, mech classes like assaults becomes important and create more game creations and a faster queue.

[Rogard]

What would be even better is if we had to chose a drop deck before launching, requiring you to select a mech for each class that you want to drop with, then the system picks one of these so that way the match maker balance the amount of Lights to Assaults and makes the match more equal.

[Alreech]

Vxheous, on 26 April 2020 - 02:11 PM, said:

Sync drops are a byproduct of bad/middle skilled groups that got stomped in group queue, over and over, by good groups/Tier up/etc, from about 2018. These groups eventually stopped group queuing, and started sync dropping, which reduced the group queue population (along with natural loss of player base).

It doesn't matter if your group was bad or middle skilled, in a small group you have hat to wait for a long time to get a match.
Synch dropping was just the quickest way to get a match with or against your friends.
Fastes way for a 4 player group to get a match? Split in 2 vs 2 and synch drop in Solaris...

Quote

Eventually, even the good groups couldn't get matches in group queue anymore due to lack of playerbase, so those players either quit, went to play faction, or sync dropped themselves. Sync dropping has been a negative feedback loop against group queue for awhile now.

No, synch dropping in Solo Quickplay has nothing to do with falling player numbers (or a matchmaker that has to handle 9 different group sizes from 2 - 10 to set up a 12 vs 12 match) only with goog and bad players...
Clearly the good players missed the stomping and went after the not so good other players.
Thats the only reasonable answer...

[jonomy]

Thanks for trying a new approach. The fog of war has thickened.

Will groups have a single vote on map and on mode? Will that vote be weighted?

[R Valentine]

RIP solo queue.

[Brain Cancer]

If there's anything I've realized in all the time on MWO I've had, it's that given any method to pugstomp, people will jump on until that method no longer effectively functions. People don't want an even match. They want interesting targets to repeatedly beat and beat thoroughly, because bots are low-sodium snacks when you lick em'.

Cue the lance-in-solos test. Now, there is no escape from a group of good enough players simply rolling opponents over and over again, unless you end up on the same team.

[BROARL]

innocenct victim, on 20 April 2020 - 06:14 PM, said:

I think combining the queues at this time is the best option to benefit the most players. I would like to be able to play with my brother and we really just can't with the two of us in group queue. Would the matchmaker work similarly to the new one in FP?

from what i can gather... most of the people who do not spend enough hours here to understand how the game flows seem to find the faction match making tedious and unfair and i cannot fathom how this could be a better solution than the 8v8 remedy (which seems to be working fine) but i guess if people are already saying 'screw quickplay' that may mean more people in faction (if they don't quit entirely)?

[Horseman]

Andrzej Lechrenski, on 25 April 2020 - 01:27 AM, said:

Yes, some players are better than others. That is the way of things. Nobody is arguing against it. But I say again: there are already stomps in solo queue. Saying that merging small groups in to it will cause stomps is totally moot. One could only WISH for a time when there were enough teams of good players that those teams needed to be divided out into their own queue. That time is not now.

We're not saying it will cause stomps when those already occur. We're saying it will cause them more frequently. There's a difference.

[Alreech]

Kiran Yagami, on 27 April 2020 - 01:13 PM, said:

RIP solo queue.

Quickplay must die so MWO can live.

The "no respaw / no mech selection for the map / no team because it's disolved after the match" of Quickplay is one of the root causes for things like nascaring.

[lilemmit]

Thank you all for improving the game play.

Can we get some new non lethal weapons or new effects, or anything?
I just need some new **** to excite me again.
Maybe toss in a new IS Diemos or LongBow

OR

[Brain Cancer]

Alreech, on 27 April 2020 - 02:24 PM, said:

Quickplay must die so MWO can live.

Ah, yes because CW is so popular. And group queue instantly gets players. Right?

(We don't mention Solaris here.)

No, this is more the other way around- attempting to feed group mode fed into the solo queue to keep things fueled there, even if it's possibly going to foul things further.

[Alreech]

Brain Cancer, on 27 April 2020 - 04:19 PM, said:

Ah, yes because CW is so popular. And group queue instantly gets players. Right?

CW got more popular after the group queue match making problems started.

IMHO the whole player base splitting "by player type" at the moment makes no sense and create only toxic between the "player types":
Quickplay Solo "for teh bad playerz"?
Quickplay Group "for the good, competetive playerz"?
Faction Warfare ? "kinda of Quickplay Group, but with Respawns and Mech selection for the map and the realy big groups?"

IMHO it should be more like what different Queues by match size:

1 vs 1 Solaris
2 vs 2 Solaris
4 vs 4 small maps
8 vs 8 middle size maps
12 vs 12 big maps

Group sizes between 2 - 4 players.
Match maker moves Solo players to smaller groups.
3 Mech dropdeck with 165 tons to not bother the matchmaker with tonnage balancing.
With a fixed group size of 4 the match maker can set up matches from 4 vs 4 to 8 vs 8 to 12 vs 1.
Few groups = 4 vs 4
Plenty of groups = 12 vs 12

Things like Solaris & the Siege Maps in Faction Warfare (4 Mech drop deck) should kept optional.

Edited by Alreech, 28 April 2020 - 01:54 AM.