1579 replies to this topic

[DAEDALOS513]

dario03, on 28 April 2020 - 01:02 PM, said:

No.
The T2 to T1 jump doesn't make sense, why did assaults go back up and lights dropped so much?
Why are you drastically buffing the strongest class and leaving the weakest one the same in T1?
Especially after boosting them equally in every other tier?
A slight handicap I could see but 3x armor on a T2 light but no boost to T1?
Also, alt accounts.

I already explained.. imho lights are way overpowered and assaults are way handicapped as things stand now.. I love my lights but they have too much of an influence in a match. When you pilot an assault, you should not feel vulnerable to a single stinkin piranha or flea.. it's ridiculous.

Lights should only be able to engage viably at the opportune moment, or when enemy is worn down and not at full force.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 28 April 2020 - 01:10 PM.

[Anjin]

1 Match in, and someone needs to tell PGI that if they're not going to bother weight-class matching anymore, they've killed it.

4 assaults on our team to 2 on theirs. Looked like a 3-man on our team and 2 2-mans on the other. None of the groups were all-assault.

I am also going to screenshot every end-game match now to watch makeup.

I also find the "everyone just wanted to play with friends" disingenuous. If that were true, the group queue wouldn't be dead. Really the solution here is to leave the solo queue alone, but add in the ability for solo players to opt-in to filling out group queues.

[dario03]

DAEDALOS513, on 28 April 2020 - 01:08 PM, said:

I already explained.. imho lights are way overpowered and assaults are way handicapped as things stand now.. I love my lights but they have to much of an influence in a match. When you pilot an assault, you should not feel vulnerable to a single stinkin piranha or flea.. it's ridiculous.

Assaults have been the highest scoring class in qp forever, so they are definitely not handicapped. When I pilot an assault I don't feel vulnerable to a single light mech already.

Edited by dario03, 28 April 2020 - 01:17 PM.

[DAEDALOS513]

Anjin, on 28 April 2020 - 01:09 PM, said:

1 Match in, and someone needs to tell PGI that if they're not going to bother weight-class matching anymore, they've killed it.

4 assaults on our team to 2 on theirs. Looked like a 3-man on our team and 2 2-mans on the other. None of the groups were all-assault.

I am also going to screenshot every end-game match now to watch makeup.

I also find the "everyone just wanted to play with friends" disingenuous. If that were true, the group queue wouldn't be dead. Really the solution here is to leave the solo queue alone, but add in the ability for solo players to opt-in to filling out group queues.

Group queue was dead because population is low. This is the whole reason PGI has made this change..

dario03, on 28 April 2020 - 01:12 PM, said:

[color=#222222]Assaults have been the highest scoring class in qp forever, so they are definitely not handicapped. [/color]When I pilot an assault I don't feel vulnerable to a single light mech already.

Than you are a very skilled asssault pilot. But I've seen assaults being out damaged by lights/mediums way more often than not.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 28 April 2020 - 01:18 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

DAEDALOS513, on 28 April 2020 - 01:03 PM, said:

Meh, I played about 10 solo matches so far.. matches have been pretty enjoyable.. maybe 2 of them were stomps.. matches are a bit more organized and more coms are definitely being used.. but you know what the big difference is? I'm getting insta-drops in group queue.. amazing.. a huge plus!

Your max 2-man idea might be a viable second test after this one has run it's course!

Just watching streams here: Alpha lances are both groups. The losing team is literally running memeboats, you can guess what the other group is doing.

Edited by Brain Cancer, 28 April 2020 - 01:23 PM.

[Scout Derek]

So my results are in;

4 mans are too strong. Limit it to 3 and 2 mans, and it should be fine. Gigastomps are happening with 4 mans, rarely did we lost and only because the solos were completely bad, or we got hard countered by tonnage alone/bad positioning.

Overall again, I'd say don't allow 4 man groups, but 3 and 2 mans can definitely be plausible.

Brain Cancer, on 28 April 2020 - 01:22 PM, said:

Just watching streams here: Alpha lances are both groups. The losing team is literally running memeboats, you can guess what the other group is doing.

Gunna lol at this;

the 4 man I was with; we did meme clag boats too, and we won every match, too. It's just the overall carry power of a 4 man and the lack of or therein lack of an opposing group of equal skill.

Now, if groups could be actually balanced by KDR/Match Score, it could potentially be alot better balancing. Emphasis on potentially, by the way.

[Horseman]

DAEDALOS513, on 28 April 2020 - 11:06 AM, said:

You can't compare this game to TT.. not sure why people still insist on doing so.. the similarities end with the name.

My point is that the values have already been increased. There's no point to doing the same thing over and over and expecting different result.

Quote

Yes, and adding armour adds to survivability..

Increasing armour also is more forgiving as it would decrease one-shot kills and one-shot getting cored.. on top of that, until you reach tier 1, you are even more heavily armoured than tier 1's..

It's not perfect but it's an easy step in the right direction, no?

What it is, is missing the point. One-shot kills aren't happening much, getting shredded by focus fire is.
Survivability is a multiplier to your mech's destructive potential. You give 4x to a nub, he'll die in five seconds longer than usual and still do sweet f*** all. You give 2x to Ash and he'll carry twice as hard as usually.

Edited by Horseman, 28 April 2020 - 01:32 PM.

[Brauer]

DAEDALOS513, on 28 April 2020 - 01:17 PM, said:

Than you are a very skilled asssault pilot. But I've seen assaults being out damaged by lights/mediums way more often than not.

FWIW I think lights are a bit weak at the moment. Running into a streak boat can be an instant death sentence and the other player has to do almost nothing to get that kill. The reason you see a lot of assaults doing next to nothing is bad assault pilots, not because assaults are underpowered imo.

[dario03]

DAEDALOS513, on 28 April 2020 - 01:17 PM, said:

Than you are a very skilled asssault pilot. But I've seen assaults being out damaged by lights/mediums way more often than not.

Everything I've ever seen shows assaults scoring higher damage on average. I've gone through and checked a decent amount of my own screenshots a few times. And there is also Jarls list which iirc uses the average scores in classes to come up with their adjusted match score multiplier and that has always shown assaults to far outscore lights.

Also your explaination covers why you want new players and assaults to get bigger bonuses but I still don't see why you would want assaults in T2 to get a lower bonus than T1. Also don't see why lights should get a big bonus and then lose it all in T1. Its not consistent, you say new players should get a handicap but give T1 assaults a bonus over T2, heavies are equal, mediums a bit weaker in T1 compared to T2, but lights much weaker in T1 compared to T2.

[Anomalocaris]

DAEDALOS513, on 28 April 2020 - 01:17 PM, said:

Group queue was dead because population is low. This is the whole reason PGI has made this change..

Facts not in evidence. Population is low for the game as a whole. But group queue does not require any special resources, skills or additional effort to play than forming a group with your friend(s). Thus the idea that low population killed group queue while it did not kill solo queue doesn't fly. There have to be extenuating factors. Namely, not enough people _want_ to play group queue. We can argue why, but I suggest that casuals getting stomped by skilled groups is at least part of it. There is no matchmaker in group queue remember other than puzzling together teams of 12.

[Warchylde73]

Here's some suggestions

- Eliminate the tier system in solo and group mode, get good or get owned.
- Mix all the groups and solos together and make match making as fast as possible.
- Revert Faction Play to where the Unit commanders can set the faction for the whole unit again.
- Make some free for all matches and other game modes, even if just for private lobbies so people can have fun bashing each others skulls in with game modes that are fun, because I don't NEED more Cbills and I don't NEED more mechs. Me and my guys have essentially made our own free for alls by team killing eachother in private matches, with the two survivors on each side fighting it out for the ultimate win after both sides were killed down to 1, but a full 24 man free for all would be dope, and also we could track our damage and score that way.
- Add full respawn, even if just in private lobbies, for the same reason as above, just to make it fun, and also to train people so they dont have to sit out forever while the games resolve.
- Advertise the game, you need new players, old players are leaving due to boredom and long wait times. You NEED to fix the wait times, I can sit in game for 30 minutes with a group of 2 trying to find a match, the fact that I have to sync drop just to try and get a match with my guys has made me slack off of playing, like a lot. I have 3500+ hours into MWO, I have bought every single mech pack, I own 700ish mechs, I love this game, but I hate that I can't drop with my guys anymore. I have friends that are tier 5, I'm tier 1, we can't even sync drop together. Many of these issues are easily resolvable. People are inevitable going to complain about having to game with noobs, guess what, I have played many games with tier 1 players that still think the nascar is the strategy of all strategies, so the whole noob argument is BS. I'd rather game with anyone than play waitwarrior online, I want to play Mechwarrior online.
- You advertise Mechwarrior 5 in Mechwarrior Online and on the Mechwarrior Online website, but you aren't advertising Mechwarrior Online in Mechwarrior 5 or the Mechwarrior 5 website.

*drops mic*

Edited by Warchylde73, 28 April 2020 - 01:40 PM.

[DAEDALOS513]

Brain Cancer, on 28 April 2020 - 01:22 PM, said:

Just watching streams here: Alpha lances are both groups. The losing team is literally running memeboats, you can guess what the other group is doing.

Hmm it wasn't a stomp.. both alpha lances got their damage in.. both lances had decent mechs.. I don't see a problem.. can't win em all..

[Brain Cancer]

Same layout, different group, similar results, slightly more evenly matched....group queue lances.

[Anomalocaris]

Brain Cancer, on 28 April 2020 - 01:22 PM, said:

Just watching streams here: Alpha lances are both groups. The losing team is literally running memeboats, you can guess what the other group is doing.

Look at the contributions from the non-grouped players on the winning team. Might as well just stand in squares on conquest mode and shout "I'm helping!" BTW, the winning team scores seem to fit a lot of what I've been seeing on streams. Good 4-man does lion's share of dmg and kills. 1 other player on team has a moderate contribution and rest are just cannon fodder/moveable armor

Edited by Anomalocaris, 28 April 2020 - 01:36 PM.

[DAEDALOS513]

Scout Derek, on 28 April 2020 - 01:26 PM, said:

So my results are in;

4 mans are too strong. Limit it to 3 and 2 mans, and it should be fine. Gigastomps are happening with 4 mans, rarely did we lost and only because the solos were completely bad, or we got hard countered by tonnage alone/bad positioning.

Overall again, I'd say don't allow 4 man groups, but 3 and 2 mans can definitely be plausible.


Gunna lol at this;

the 4 man I was with; we did meme clag boats too, and we won every match, too. It's just the overall carry power of a 4 man and the lack of or therein lack of an opposing group of equal skill.

Now, if groups could be actually balanced by KDR/Match Score, it could potentially be alot better balancing. Emphasis on potentially, by the way.

The results people keep posting today are utterly useless. There is a reason why this experiment is going to last for 4 weeks.. the results right now are skewed to the hard core players that keep up to date with the forums and play everyday. It will take time for the news of this update to trickle down to the rest of the playerbase. Once this happens.. there will be more variety in your drops.. enough negativity and more patience.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 28 April 2020 - 01:34 PM.

[DAEDALOS513]

dario03, on 28 April 2020 - 01:29 PM, said:

Everything I've ever seen shows assaults scoring higher damage on average. I've gone through and checked a decent amount of my own screenshots a few times. And there is also Jarls list which iirc uses the average scores in classes to come up with their adjusted match score multiplier and that has always shown assaults to far outscore lights.

Also your explaination covers why you want new players and assaults to get bigger bonuses but I still don't see why you would want assaults in T2 to get a lower bonus than T1. Also don't see why lights should get a big bonus and then lose it all in T1. Its not consistent, you say new players should get a handicap but give T1 assaults a bonus over T2, heavies are equal, mediums a bit weaker in T1 compared to T2, but lights much weaker in T1 compared to T2.

Haha I made a goof up.. ya T1 assaults shouldn't get a bigger boost than T2.. I didn't put much thought into this system I just came up with it now on the fly.. I guess T1 assaults can hold onto their 3x armour bonus.. but as for lights in lower tiers, they should get a bigger bonus because their pilots are less experienced. The end result for armour distribution for lights is that they should not be able to easily influence the outcome of a match as they do now..

Maybe it should read like this:

Tier 3-5: all mechs get four 4 times the armour
Tier 2: all mechs get 3 times the armour
Tier 1: Assaults keep their 3x armour, Heavies get 2x armour, Mediums get 2x armour and Lights remain as is now.

And for those that think I am proposing this change so that I can have more to farm.. I'm not. If you ask any new player I'm sure they will tell you they won't mind staying alive for longer.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 28 April 2020 - 01:47 PM.

[Be my Guest]

I played around 5 or 6 games so far. Very nice because Nascar was suddnely gone. Also I have not noticed a 4 man group dominating a match so far.

I really wonder which game you guys whinning about to strong 4 men groups have played the last months. I had at least 50% pure Nascar and 50% stomps in the last months. so things can t get worse. In case they roll back I probably quit anyways.

[Scout Derek]

DAEDALOS513, on 28 April 2020 - 01:33 PM, said:

The results people keep posting today are utterly useless. There is a reason why this experiment is going to last for 4 weeks.. the results right now are skewed to the hard core players that keep up to date with the forums and play everyday. It will take time for the news of this update to trickle down to the rest of the playerbase. Once this happens.. there will be more variety in your drops.. enough negativity and more patience.

Oh there's no negatively here, just already know how it's going to be for awhile.

Gigastomps are still going to happen because there is no real balance. Groups can bring in cadets into T1-T3 matches. MM is still skewered, same results, if not reinforced more commonly now with groups.

Again, my opinion is, 3 mans, 2 mans are good. anything larger is gonna reinforce 12-0 matches.

[DAEDALOS513]

Scout Derek, on 28 April 2020 - 01:43 PM, said:

Oh there's no negatively here, just already know how it's going to be for awhile.

Gigastomps are still going to happen because there is no real balance. Groups can bring in cadets into T1-T3 matches. MM is still skewered, same results, if not reinforced more commonly now with groups.

Again, my opinion is, 3 mans, 2 mans are good. anything larger is gonna reinforce 12-0 matches.

I also favour max 2 or 3man groups.. they should try that out for a month as well and compare results.

The purpose of this change wasn't to fix matchmaker or end stomping.. the purpose was to add the ability to drop with a friend in a more organized environment. I am seeing it, and several others.. the nascar has all but ended and coms are being used more.. these are added benefits that solo queue rarely brings. This change is a win even though it's not the win some people were looking for.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 28 April 2020 - 01:53 PM.

[RockmachinE]

DAEDALOS513, on 28 April 2020 - 01:33 PM, said:

It will take time for the news of this update to trickle down to the rest of the playerbase. Once this happens.. there will be more variety in your drops.. enough negativity and more patience.

Most likely what will trickle down is the ralization that players outside of the comp groups and highest skill solos have no effect on the outcome of the game, lesser skilled players will feel useless and overpowered and stop playing.

I'm solo q, I'm decent, I'm already being outperformed every round and while I know how to weasel my way around and get decent kills and damage its obvious that I am not as effective as I was.

This will kill the game. What people will come to realize is that the "comp" and group players were far fewer in number and the solo q potatos were the ones propping the game up.

Also the queue doesn't seem much faster.

Edited by Louis Brofist, 28 April 2020 - 02:01 PM.