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Combined Queues - Discoveries Week 1


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#81 Sniper09121986

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Posted 05 May 2020 - 01:02 PM

View PostUnkerZ, on 05 May 2020 - 09:34 AM, said:

I will wait 5 minutes if that is what it takes to get a balanced matchup - but clearly match quality isnt the goal till today.


View PostAlreech, on 05 May 2020 - 12:19 PM, said:

How about setting up matches with smaller teams if the match maker runs out of players?
Like 8 vs 8 on smaller maps?


Really cannot put any more emphasis on this. No balance = no fun. Not sure how many more times this has to be said. This is the most important criterium in any multiplayer game with centralised matchmaking of any sort. Wait times and player pool are secondary. The players will return if they see a fun and balanced game to return to. The players' dedication to this game or Battletech in general has little to no precedents in gaming history - so live up to it! All those suggestions on the forums would not exist if nobody cared.

#82 Spare Knight

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Posted 05 May 2020 - 01:19 PM

I'll say it again. Simply remove the Two Losses In A Row from the PSR and it will no longer be an experience bar. Try it and lets see the results.

#83 Ahh Screw it - WATCH THIS

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Posted 05 May 2020 - 01:25 PM

The Cadets in the tier 1 matches are learning that missiles go woosh!

Edited by Ahh Screw it - WATCH THIS, 05 May 2020 - 01:39 PM.


#84 Mike1505

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Posted 05 May 2020 - 01:25 PM

I completely agree with the Sniper. but then the tone will have to be the same for both sides, and this is not so interesting and more predictable-a fork.

Edited by Rhea-M, 05 May 2020 - 01:25 PM.


#85 Zirconium Kaze

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Posted 05 May 2020 - 02:05 PM

View PostHorseman, on 05 May 2020 - 08:48 AM, said:

[color=#959595]According to PGI, stomp frequency increased - so no, they are not happening at the same rate.[/color]
[color=#959595]While there will always be stomps, a properly tuned matchmaker would reduce their frequency. PUGs don't enjoy being stomped, and most competitively-minded players don't enjoy stomping pugs - they're cleaning out the match so that they can queue up again for another shot at getting matched against worthwhile opponents.[/color]
If they don't enjoy stomping pugs, they can stop using qp. Stop trying to ruin a good thing.

#86 Brauer

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Posted 05 May 2020 - 02:21 PM

View PostZirconium Kaze, on 05 May 2020 - 02:05 PM, said:

If they don't enjoy stomping pugs, they can stop using qp. Stop trying to ruin a good thing.


Thanks for telling people to stop playing the game. See you out there.

#87 Zirconium Kaze

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Posted 05 May 2020 - 02:45 PM

View PostBrauer, on 05 May 2020 - 02:21 PM, said:

Thanks for telling people to stop playing the game. See you out there.

Isn't there fp? Why must qp be adjusted towards teams when the regular team play didn't get enough players for two mans to ever find a game? qp is in a good place imo and if people want to fight only good players, then pgi should make a mode where you can set up a server and invite those you want to fight. I like the variety that's in qp personally regardless if I'm winning or loosing. The best way to grow competition is by having people exposed to the potentials of team coordination, including the best. People who refuse to adapt are the types who say things like "I'm not comp, I like to play for fun", but no one enters a competition looking to lose. Trying to artificially hand people wins stagnates their personal improvement and ultimately, their wins are meaningless then since they've been shifted into statistical pools. It's akin to giving people medals for showing up.

Edited by Zirconium Kaze, 05 May 2020 - 02:48 PM.


#88 Andrzej Lechrenski

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Posted 05 May 2020 - 02:46 PM

View PostThat Mech, on 05 May 2020 - 01:30 AM, said:

Or you know, just rename enemy pilots to Pilot 1-12 and only show them in end game screen. Removes any placebo effects one might have during loading screen and match.

"But I'm facing 4 Div A players, there's no way we are going to win this!!!" . *proceeds to play like a derp*

no bannerino pls.


I love this idea and I think it bears repeating: anonymous names at the start of a match would help a lot of matches from becoming self-fulfilling prophesies.

#89 vulture prime

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Posted 05 May 2020 - 02:51 PM

So far my experience with the combined queues has been that there have been a lot more stomps, not always but they seem more prevalent. With the 8v8 queues It did not seem more stompy to me.

#90 Andrzej Lechrenski

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Posted 05 May 2020 - 02:51 PM

View PostBrauer, on 05 May 2020 - 04:42 AM, said:

Still saw a cadet in a match last night, so has the matchmaker been tightened up in any noticeable way?


The cadets I've bothered to ask were universally playing with a friend/relative/mentor etc. I say that is a really good sign and it indicates to me that this experiment is working as intended.

#91 bilagaana

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Posted 05 May 2020 - 02:59 PM

It is interesting to me that PGI is expending any resources whatsoever on MWO. The consensus among the user base (or, at least, those who are most active on this forum) was that it had been abandoned. Perhaps, the prognosis is not as grim as we assumed?

#92 Anomalocaris

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Posted 05 May 2020 - 03:03 PM

View PostZirconium Kaze, on 05 May 2020 - 02:45 PM, said:

The best way to grow competition is by having people exposed to the potentials of team coordination, including the best. People who refuse to adapt are the types who say things like "I'm not comp, I like to play for fun", but no one enters a competition looking to lose. Trying to artificially hand people wins stagnates their personal improvement and ultimately, their wins are meaningless then since they've been shifted into statistical pools. It's akin to giving people medals for showing up.


You haven't been reading the posts closely enough. Lotta people say winning isn't that important (I'm not one of them though)

#93 Nearly Dead

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Posted 05 May 2020 - 03:10 PM

Covid-19 lockdown brought players into the game. MW5 may have brought players into the game. If PGI has no other irons in the fire that require all their resources and promise to make a profit, and MWO starts making them some bucks. . . Well, plans can change.

If we can help them by not driving away new players and maybe enjoying the game ourselves enough to spend a MC or two, maybe the next stop could be a map or two, or new mechs. After the mid test period changes to the MM I think they made a good change and hope for more of the same.



Or a new holiday cockpit item. Maybe a Atlantean Independence Day conch horn.


edited: MW5 was mistyped as MWO. Muscle memory :)

Edited by Nearly Dead, 06 May 2020 - 03:31 AM.


#94 Marshal Jim Duncan

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Posted 05 May 2020 - 03:23 PM

I think the balance should weight more on weight and wait times. The hole with the PSR weighting is the assumption that everyone tries their best on every match and the reality is that sometimes you're just to drunk to care. It's not like these are competitive team matches. Maybe I just want some mech xp or c-bills to try a really stupid build.

If you really need to factor in PRS ... take out the win/loss component and make the scale of the increase or decrease based on how much better you did than your last 5 matches in that weight class.

That way, the ppl who want to be really competitive will more quickly separate themselves from us drunks driving over their lawn, hitting their mailbox, and smashing their PSR with a loss.

#95 C337Skymaster

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Posted 05 May 2020 - 03:25 PM

View PostSniper09121986, on 05 May 2020 - 09:30 AM, said:

You know not of what you speak...




I've seen this, or something like this, before, but I could have sworn it was TheB33f in the video when I saw it, so maybe there were multiple games like this? I checked the team rosters at the end. TheB33f wasn't in this one.

Otherwise, this video was made in a private lobby in 2016. I'm not convinced that counts as "playing the game", and certainly doesn't count as playing the current one.

#96 Brauer

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Posted 05 May 2020 - 03:57 PM

View PostZirconium Kaze, on 05 May 2020 - 02:45 PM, said:

Isn't there fp? Why must qp be adjusted towards teams when the regular team play didn't get enough players for two mans to ever find a game? qp is in a good place imo and if people want to fight only good players, then pgi should make a mode where you can set up a server and invite those you want to fight. I like the variety that's in qp personally regardless if I'm winning or loosing. The best way to grow competition is by having people exposed to the potentials of team coordination, including the best. People who refuse to adapt are the types who say things like "I'm not comp, I like to play for fun", but no one enters a competition looking to lose. Trying to artificially hand people wins stagnates their personal improvement and ultimately, their wins are meaningless then since they've been shifted into statistical pools. It's akin to giving people medals for showing up.


So FP isn't really hard mode imo. Unless you have a pretty bad PUG team against a large group it's usually more about how fast you can farm the other side. It's fun and all, but it does require a bigger time commitment (time to wait in queue plus 20-30 minutes for a match) and it has low population at certain times of day.

At this point player run competitions are the hard mode. I just don't feel I have the time to devote to them as I did last year.

I think this change should be reverted because it simply shifts the meta toward bringing a decent 3-4 man and reduces the attractiveness and impact of solo droppers. I have to say though I find your point of view kind of hard to follow. You want high level players out of quick play, but you also want players in quick play exposed to all levels of play? I'm confused.

#97 Andrzej Lechrenski

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Posted 05 May 2020 - 04:11 PM

View PostBrauer, on 05 May 2020 - 03:57 PM, said:

So FP isn't really hard mode imo. Unless you have a pretty bad PUG team against a large group it's usually more about how fast you can farm the other side. It's fun and all, but it does require a bigger time commitment (time to wait in queue plus 20-30 minutes for a match) and it has low population at certain times of day.

At this point player run competitions are the hard mode. I just don't feel I have the time to devote to them as I did last year.

I think this change should be reverted because it simply shifts the meta toward bringing a decent 3-4 man and reduces the attractiveness and impact of solo droppers. I have to say though I find your point of view kind of hard to follow. You want high level players out of quick play, but you also want players in quick play exposed to all levels of play? I'm confused.


He's saying that if you find the game is not fun because you are stomping... just don't be in a group that stomps. You can always drop solo.

However, if you find yourself saying "yeah, but I have more fun when I get to play with my friends"... well, isn't that literally the entire point of this experiment?

#98 MechWarrior177013

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Posted 05 May 2020 - 04:21 PM

View PostNearly Dead, on 05 May 2020 - 03:10 PM, said:

Covid-19 lockdown brought players into the game....


I was just waiting for this one, player numbers have gone up since the merge, well into the covid thing.

Edited by Dakkalistic, 05 May 2020 - 04:28 PM.


#99 Anomalocaris

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Posted 05 May 2020 - 04:22 PM

View PostAndrzej Lechrenski, on 05 May 2020 - 04:11 PM, said:


He's saying that if you find the game is not fun because you are stomping... just don't be in a group that stomps. You can always drop solo.

However, if you find yourself saying "yeah, but I have more fun when I get to play with my friends"... well, isn't that literally the entire point of this experiment?


I don't speak for Brauer, but I think the point you are missing is this:

The addition of groups has so swung the balance of power in the merged queue (at least for good players and good groups) that the difference in WLR and overall match performance between a solo high skill player and that same player in a 4-man is substantial. We are talking a 3x-4x increase in WLR and a 2x-3x increase in KDR. A good player in a group will rarely lose, while the same player going solo will find himself losing the majority of matches when a good group drops opposite him.

This massive gap between group and solo performance is going to encourage anyone who enjoys winning to really try to drop in a 4-man as often as possible, and that's going to result in a lot of stomps regardless of mech choice. Can't blame the guy for not wanting to play solo when it means he gets beaten up regardless of how well he plays because he's at the mercy of which team gets the good 4-man.

#100 Brauer

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Posted 05 May 2020 - 04:30 PM

View PostAnomalocaris, on 05 May 2020 - 04:22 PM, said:


I don't speak for Brauer, but I think the point you are missing is this:

The addition of groups has so swung the balance of power in the merged queue (at least for good players and good groups) that the difference in WLR and overall match performance between a solo high skill player and that same player in a 4-man is substantial. We are talking a 3x-4x increase in WLR and a 2x-3x increase in KDR. A good player in a group will rarely lose, while the same player going solo will find himself losing the majority of matches when a good group drops opposite him.

This massive gap between group and solo performance is going to encourage anyone who enjoys winning to really try to drop in a 4-man as often as possible, and that's going to result in a lot of stomps regardless of mech choice. Can't blame the guy for not wanting to play solo when it means he gets beaten up regardless of how well he plays because he's at the mercy of which team gets the good 4-man.


I think you're understating the impact of dropping with a good group. It's not that hard to go from like 2.00 wlr solo to like 17.00 wlr in a group, and like 3.00 kdr solo to like 20+ in a group.





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