344 replies to this topic

[Three Cats In A Trench Coat]

East Indy, on 09 May 2020 - 07:05 AM, said:

I've been continuing to play as a solo. Match experience feels similar to Solo Queue

so what about 4-mans just stomping 90% of their matches 12-0? that ok?

[Three Cats In A Trench Coat]

Yozaa, on 08 May 2020 - 01:43 PM, said:

So how does Match maker tell the different between them? Or can it even tell the difference?

that's the fun part... for MM there's no difference between a 30-percentile player that got to max T1 by playing A LOT of matches or a multiple world champion...

[Negat1ve Nancy]

I am getting more competitive in my games, got my first "Ace of Spades" YEEEEEEEEEEE HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!



For me the games seem easier than before, or maybe I have gotten guid, I don't know. But my stats such as K/D and win/loss are going up as well for soloing, as I don't do groups any more, your skin thins and temper grows as you get older. I kinda feel bad for my victims though, just a little.

Edited by Negat1ve Nancy, 09 May 2020 - 08:55 AM.

[DAEDALOS513]

Negat1ve Nancy, on 09 May 2020 - 08:54 AM, said:

I am getting more competitive in my games, got my first "Ace of Spades" YEEEEEEEEEEE HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!



For me the games seem easier than before, or maybe I have gotten guid, I don't know. But my stats such as K/D and win/loss are going up as well for soloing, as I don't do groups any more, your skin thins and temper grows as you get older. I kinda feel bad for my victims though, just a little.

Well done sir 7

[wasder undapants]

Horseman, on 09 May 2020 - 02:41 AM, said:

Jarl's ranks by average match score, not by PSR. PSR is so broken that someone in the 38th percentile still gets into Tier 1 despite failing to consistently break 200 score in their matches.

Wow that bad eh? I have very little clue about the complexity behind any of this but is there no chance to fix the PSR and matchmaker. Never mind the word 'fix' as some believe its not broken, how about improve?

I like the fact that this game has such a broad range of skill ranges and people playing for fun vs people playing competitively. We just need to keep those groups apart with some mixing in the middle to keep players improving right?

Edited by wasder undapants, 09 May 2020 - 10:28 AM.

[Horseman]

wasder undapants, on 09 May 2020 - 10:27 AM, said:

I have very little clue about the complexity behind any of this but is there no chance to fix the PSR and matchmaker. Never mind the word 'fix' as some believe its not broken, how about improve?

There is.. but only if PGI are actually willing to do it. The problems with PSR have been hammered in repeatedly for years and they've largely refused to acknowledge that they exist. At this point, there is little difference between fixing and improving it:

• To improve it we need PSR losses to be much more substantial than they are right now and either a new period of PSR seeding where PSR changes are greatly multiplied or an outright reset
  
• To fix it, we need that PLUS a PSR formula that more meaningfully reflects the impact the given player had on the match

Quote

I like the fact that this game has such a broad range of skill ranges and people playing for fun vs people playing competitively. We just need to keep those groups apart with some mixing in the middle to keep players improving right?

Pretty much, yeah. If the matchmaker used some meaningful measure of player performance, that would be much easier. But at the present, Paul's effort on tuning matchmaking by PSR is pretty much wasted because PSR itself is a fundamentally faulty metric.

Edited by Horseman, 09 May 2020 - 11:44 AM.

[East Indy]

TheUltimateGhost, on 09 May 2020 - 07:23 AM, said:

so what about 4-mans just stomping 90% of their matches 12-0? that ok?

No, of course not. But I haven't seen it occurring as much as I thought it might. Could be that there was a bias toward high-end 4-man groups that don't regularly play the game anymore but wanted to throw weight around just to make a point — and have since moved on.

[wasder undapants]

East Indy, on 09 May 2020 - 11:51 AM, said:

No, of course not. But I haven't seen it occurring as much as I thought it might. Could be that there was a bias toward high-end 4-man groups that don't regularly play the game anymore but wanted to throw weight around just to make a point — and have since moved on.

In my little corner of the queue the epic stomps aren't really happening even though every drop does tend to have at least one 3-4 man kicking about. What I see happening is a fair few small group premades appear to be friends who maybe have come back to the game or are trying it out playing with some more experienced pilots so they dont just roll everyone taking fire from all 12 of the enemy. The few drops I have had vs high percentile premades have been losses mostly sure, but even those games werent rofl stomps. To be honest most rofl stomps when I am playing seem to occur with 12 solos vs 12 solos.

[OmniFail]

I hate the games were alpha lance is a noob with thier noob friends.
I like the games were alpha lance is a pro with thier pro friends.
Sure there are other combinations, but they don't seem to be worth commenting on.

[Anomalocaris]

East Indy, on 09 May 2020 - 11:51 AM, said:

No, of course not. But I haven't seen it occurring as much as I thought it might. Could be that there was a bias toward high-end 4-man groups that don't regularly play the game anymore but wanted to throw weight around just to make a point — and have since moved on.

Nope, they played lots and lots of games yesterday - it's all on twitch to see. And its beyond proving a point now. It's either faction or merged queue, and faction always takes more time and effort and organization, so most will probably gravitate toward seal clubbing in the merge. They don't bother with meta builds anymore cause its too easy, and it isn't always stomps cause a few of their pugs will suicide in the first minute, but they're still clocking up absurd WLR stats.

Watch them play a time or two on stream. Especially note their friends list. Reads like a top 100 of Jarls list pretty much, so these guys will always tend to gravitate toward groups with each other. Nothing wrong with that. And nothing wrong with them playing the game and stomping pugs. Especially since their options are so limited now. The problem is giving them the opportunity to do so in the first place.

[Nearly Dead]

I think that fixing the PSR might be the one thing that could save the game, or the only single thing. If they would use some kind of rolling stat reflecting how much each player contributed to winning or losing over 50 or 100 matches, and actually break up the mixed que it might be worth a little extra wait time not to have a top shelf 4man dropping with cadets.

Some of the games today were fun, but some were so rank that I just wanted to disconnect. Blocked 3 players today. First time I have ever used block in 1300 hours in game, an entire unit doing the constant Affirmative, Negative, for most of the game.

Edited to remove accidental formatting marks

Edited by Nearly Dead, 10 May 2020 - 04:49 PM.

[wasder undapants]

Anomalocaris, on 09 May 2020 - 01:24 PM, said:

Nope, they played lots and lots of games yesterday - it's all on twitch to see. And its beyond proving a point now. It's either faction or merged queue, and faction always takes more time and effort and organization, so most will probably gravitate toward seal clubbing in the merge. They don't bother with meta builds anymore cause its too easy, and it isn't always stomps cause a few of their pugs will suicide in the first minute, but they're still clocking up absurd WLR stats.

Watch them play a time or two on stream. Especially note their friends list. Reads like a top 100 of Jarls list pretty much, so these guys will always tend to gravitate toward groups with each other. Nothing wrong with that. And nothing wrong with them playing the game and stomping pugs. Especially since their options are so limited now. The problem is giving them the opportunity to do so in the first place.

Maybe we can get all of these elite players to sign a gentlemens agreement to immediately disconnect from any game which does not have elite opposition against them?

[DAEDALOS513]

wasder undapants, on 09 May 2020 - 03:59 PM, said:

Maybe we can get all of these elite players to sign a gentlemens agreement to immediately disconnect from any game which does not have elite opposition against them?

Been playing solo on and off all day and only experienced one stomp.. it's not as bad as the naysayers say.. enjoy yourself.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 09 May 2020 - 04:31 PM.

[Remover of Obstacles]

Horseman, on 09 May 2020 - 11:43 AM, said:

..... But at the present, Paul's effort on tuning matchmaking by PSR is pretty much wasted because PSR itself is a fundamentally faulty metric.

So can we conclude that no matchmaker is better than PGI matchmaker?

[Anomalocaris]

DAEDALOS513, on 09 May 2020 - 04:30 PM, said:

Been playing solo on and off all day and only experienced one stomp.. it's not as bad as the naysayers say.. enjoy yourself.

Which means that your solo WLR has to be pretty low given that you were at 3.0 a day ago and now you're down to 1.8. That big a drop in a day or two means you're probably trending around 1.0-1.1 WLR which is substantially below your historical average.

Think about that. Play group (with good players - and Daedalos has plenty in his unit) and double your WLR. Play solo and drop it by a third. That kind of disparity, even for good players, between group and solo play is just too big. That's an issue when it comes to the longevity and health.

[DAEDALOS513]

Nah.. one day i'll play all day with 2 or 3.. the next I'll solo it.. depends on how much free time i have that day..

regardless.. you red herringed my comment.. the point i was making is the stomps simply aren't as prevalent as some make them out to be..

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 09 May 2020 - 06:03 PM.

[General Solo]

wasder undapants, on 09 May 2020 - 10:27 AM, said:

Wow that bad eh? I have very little clue about the complexity behind any of this but is there no chance to fix the PSR and matchmaker. Never mind the word 'fix' as some believe its not broken, how about improve?

I like the fact that this game has such a broad range of skill ranges and people playing for fun vs people playing competitively. We just need to keep those groups apart with some mixing in the middle to keep players improving right?

The fix to match maker is simple so simple. Just need to adjust the Match score to PSR movement parametres.
Make PSR changes equal regardless if your team wins or loses.

500 matchscore when you win = 500 matchscore when you lose
50 matchscore when you win = 50 matchscore when you lose

I am guessing that the match making parameters are hard coded and PGI cannot change them without a new hire.
So they are doing it this way.
My thoughts.

[Knight Captain Morgan]

All of my matches since the change have been stomps except for 1. Following the forcing of all casual solo PUGs into the competitive premade farm team que, I tried but was treated to a 0-12 stomp that was over in just a few minutes. That was all the confirmation/frustration I needed to uninstall. After that, I played the forum game for a while where I totally roflstomped the logic of anyone suggesting this change has been "good" for the game. Then I found out that MechWarrior 5 is available via a non-epic source (the xbox season pass). I've since downloaded and been playing it. All my matches, save 1, have been stomps in my favor. The 1 where it was not a stomp I forgot to add ammo bins when re-outfitting my personal mech. Admittedly, the mechlab in MWO is superior to the mechlab in MW5. In MW5, slower mechs with more weapon hardpoints are superior to anything else and there are no clan mechs. Very unfortunate, as my main mech in MWO is a Shadowcat, but currently using a Jagermech in MW5.

[Anjin]

DAEDALOS513, on 09 May 2020 - 06:00 PM, said:

Nah.. one day i'll play all day with 2 or 3.. the next I'll solo it.. depends on how much free time i have that day..

regardless.. you red herringed my comment.. the point i was making is the stomps simply aren't as prevalent as some make them out to be..

In your experience. You're not playing in every game that goes off. some people will experience more stomps, others less. It also depends on what a given person's definition of a stomp is, since I'm sure not everyone considers the same match a stomp or not.

[elkalc]

I would like the option to play with more than 4 friends. It makes me sad to leave anyone out.