344 replies to this topic

[Horseman]

ERescue, on 16 May 2020 - 02:11 AM, said:

@Brain Cancer: This is apparently not entirely true. I just finished a match in one of my Firestarters a little while ago. I got one kill, one assist and some other stuff on top of that (from UAV, etc.). My side lost 5-12 and only two other pilots scored kills (both in heavies). I had the third highest MS in my team and I LOST pilot rank. Granted, I KNOW I am NOT a good pilot, but it is entirely possible to contribute and still lose rank.

Because PGI's PSR algorithm sucks. It's hard to break even on a loss, it's impossible to drop down on a win. As a result, on a win it doesn't matter if you were carried when on a loss you have to have carried hard.

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This in turn means that there is no guarantee that players ever reach tier 1 or even 2. I have played for years and have never even been close to any longer term change. I gain occasional ups, but the ingame bar inevitably falls back to the very bottom.

Match Score can be cheesed. AFAIK the breakpoint is around 170 to 180 average score
All the "little" score actions matter:

• AMS boats (3xAMS NVA FTW) earn a metric ton of free score just for sticking around their teammates and intercepting missiles.
  
• If you get radar contact to enemy mechs early, smash R a few times to collect the Scouting bonuses
  
• Any amount of damage against an opponent will register a Kill Assist when your teammates take him out.
  
• If you're running a LRM boat, having your own TAG and keeping it on target gets you an additional score bonus when the missiles hit.
  
• Staying near your lancemates and other friendlies produces Lance Formation and Protection bonuses

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On a final note. Given my multiple physical handicaps, it IS possible that I am simply a horribly bad player. However, given the nature of the game... Should that not mean that I should fairly systemically find myself among the bottom three out of 24? Which, looking at my recent screenshots of end screens does not seem to be the case...

*scratches head*

From your leaderboard records, it looks like your survival rate is really low.
My best guess is that that is probably the root cause of your "low" scoring: you die too early and miss out on opportunities to pick up points. Try to play more cautiously and conserve your armor - a glorious heroic sacrifice helps your team less in the long run than keeping your guns on the board and firing.

Edited by Horseman, 16 May 2020 - 11:47 AM.

[Anomalocaris]

+1 on the MS gaming. I spectated a guy who I regularly saw in solo play and noticed that he was suddenly scoring way higher than his previous avg. Since he had performed similarly to me, I really wanted to know what his secret was. Had he figured something out? Go to new hardware that was helping his aim? Been dropping with skilled players who taught him something?

Nope. He was running an ATM Veagle with Tag and C-AMS. Turns out he spec'd out the skill tree for maximum sensor range too (which helps improve lock on time so I understand that). But turns out if you get tag bonus, shoot down 100-200 missiles per match and get 5-6 spotting bonuses per match your score will jump up quite a bit - even on top of the ridiculous damage scores an ATM Veagle can churn out. Now mind you he was winning more matches and getting a higher KDR, the Veagle definitely helps with that, but the jump in the match score was nuts.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Where is the "Discoveries of week 2", Paul? Are things so shameful that you don't want to do this anymore?

[Weeny Machine]

FRAGTAST1C, on 16 May 2020 - 07:41 PM, said:

Where is the "Discoveries of week 2", Paul? Are things so shameful that you don't want to do this anymore?

I can help you with that:


Hey MechWarriors,

As I mentioned last week, I'd be playing with a few of the match making numbers on the live servers throughout the weekend and I'd share info that was discovered in doing so after your criticized me so harshly.

So the initial numbers and your responses on Friday were showing me this: I am not even half as clever as I thought to be and trying to simply copy paste mechanics from War Thunder was a very bad idea, too.

However, since seal clubbing I mean "playing with friends" and the abuse of grouping + sync dropping to get even more buddies in has been already established we will keep this going. However, we have heard your complains. Therefore we will rename the QP mode now to "Social Experiment Mode: How much crap can we throw at you and do not even bother with decent communication until you finally deinstall and we have our server clean again".
Oh, and please buy a copy of MW5 because we always have shown how much we cherish and respect our customers and their feedback.

Edited by Weeny Machine, 17 May 2020 - 01:24 AM.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Weeny Machine, on 17 May 2020 - 01:22 AM, said:

I can help you with that:


Hey MechWarriors,

As I mentioned last week, I'd be playing with a few of the match making numbers on the live servers throughout the weekend and I'd share info that was discovered in doing so after your criticized me so harshly.

So the initial numbers and your responses on Friday were showing me this: I am not even half as clever as I thought to be and trying to simply copy paste mechanics from War Thunder was a very bad idea, too.

However, since seal clubbing I mean "playing with friends" and the abuse of grouping + sync dropping to get even more buddies in has been already established we will keep this going. However, we have heard your complains. Therefore we will rename the QP mode now to "Social Experiment Mode: How much crap can we throw at you and do not even bother with decent communication until you finally deinstall and we have our server clean again".
Oh, and please buy a copy of MW5 because we always have shown how much we cherish and respect our customers and their feedback.

Sounds to me like a Vault-Tec experiment.

[Weeny Machine]

@PGI

Today I decided that was finally my last match in this game.

Here are some reasons which really drove me away...and the merge was a reason for that.

1. Your brilliant idea to merge queues. I have had played 16 matches today. 15 were rolls, 1 was pretty balanced. And yet someone like Russ claims there would be only an increase of 5%. And that was just today...

2. Monotony - you mostly see heavy and assaults and those are the usual meta builds

3. Lock-on Warrior - the idiocy of lock-on weapon in a shooter is just staggering. The sheer amount of that crap makes it also horrible to play light mechs. In my last match I played a light mech and a streak boat with ECM appeared before me. One salvo and my ST was gone. That was the straw that broke the camel's back

4. Consumable spam - so fun... not

5. Communication - it seems your company doesn't listen at all and some comments from some of your employees really show that you are either out of touch with the game or the community or both - yet at the same time you expect that people buy other products like MW5 from you. I doubt I will buy again from you and if I do then with great reluctance

6. The community - I wrote today in the ALL chat that it is just roll after roll (on my team was a premade consisting of comp players). The response was: go delete the game, play something else. They did that also when we were matched again in other matches. Guess what? I will heed that advice. I mean, I am just one person but at least I can contribute a little bit that those queues get longer and longer so that these people get what they wanted.

Edited by Weeny Machine, 17 May 2020 - 04:41 AM.

[Brigadier Bert]

I would like to express my happiness with the merging.
I can finally just get some friends to start playing with me in this game fairly easy.
More fun, equals more playing time for me and also more incentive to spend money on it.

Good choice for the overall quality of the game, though I see all the tier 5 whales already foaming at the mouth because of ma stomps in this topic so I'm not getting my hopes up.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Weeny Machine, on 17 May 2020 - 04:39 AM, said:

.....

Try to play FW more. It's just better. You can definitely get group invites from some streamers like Yondu who do FW only. They take anyone along.

[Sniper09121986]

FRAGTAST1C, on 17 May 2020 - 02:53 AM, said:

Sounds to me like a Vault-Tec experiment.

Yeah, well, I was thinking of https://en.wikipedia...be_(film_series)

Weeny Machine, on 17 May 2020 - 04:39 AM, said:

@PGI

Today I decided that was finally my last match in this game.

Here are some reasons which really drove me away...and the merge was a reason for that.

Yet another happy customer... Sorry to see that, really. For me the biggest selling point of MWO has been that it is based on BT universe, and it is not like we have an abundance of computer games for that. Thus head honchos in other dev companies may very well judge the entire franchise by MWO, and we might not see another BT product in another decade or so. I understand that you are burnt out, and I by no means condone PGI's decisions in this matter. All I ask is for you to hold some faith in store in case a miracle happens and PGI discovers reason and common sense.

[Z Paradox]

Anomalocaris, on 16 May 2020 - 12:58 PM, said:

+1 on the MS gaming. I spectated a guy who I regularly saw in solo play and noticed that he was suddenly scoring way higher than his previous avg. Since he had performed similarly to me, I really wanted to know what his secret was. Had he figured something out? Go to new hardware that was helping his aim? Been dropping with skilled players who taught him something?

Nope. He was running an ATM Veagle with Tag and C-AMS. Turns out he spec'd out the skill tree for maximum sensor range too (which helps improve lock on time so I understand that). But turns out if you get tag bonus, shoot down 100-200 missiles per match and get 5-6 spotting bonuses per match your score will jump up quite a bit - even on top of the ridiculous damage scores an ATM Veagle can churn out. Now mind you he was winning more matches and getting a higher KDR, the Veagle definitely helps with that, but the jump in the match score was nuts.

use ATM-s, dual H gaus or 4x LBX10 and your score will jump up high. that is idiot friendly solution. or find some aimbot program and go headshoting from 1000+m like some new players...

[Brain Cancer]

ERescue, on 16 May 2020 - 02:11 AM, said:

@Brain Cancer: This is apparently not entirely true. I just finished a match in one of my Firestarters a little while ago. I got one kill, one assist and some other stuff on top of that (from UAV, etc.). My side lost 5-12 and only two other pilots scored kills (both in heavies). I had the third highest MS in my team and I LOST pilot rank. Granted, I KNOW I am NOT a good pilot, but it is entirely possible to contribute and still lose rank. This in turn means that there is no guarantee that players ever reach tier 1 or even 2. I have played for years and have never even been close to any longer term change. I gain occasional ups, but the ingame bar inevitably falls back to the very bottom.

Gains are solely derived from how much match score you had at the end of the game, and whether your team won or lost. If you lose, you are absolutely able to lose exp on your Tier bar barring an exceptionally large match score (which, given your stats you don't even get close to, ever). You just won't lose much if you actually played the game, and will gain a larger amount for a game with the same contribution only having won the battle instead.

And yes, given a .28 K/D ratio and average match score of 150, you are not able to fully play the game, as your normal contribution to it is not killing anyone, dying over 80% of the time, and getting a match score that points to not being able to do fundamental basic parts of what the game would expect- you are "skunking" the team, which most people have to do deliberately but due to your physical lack of capacity to play, manage to do naturally. Statistically speaking, the odds that they would be better off with you than without you are incredibly low, as the odds of finding even another 5 players in your percentile of skill on the same team at the same time given PGI's mush-matchmaker is virtually nil.

[Tarl Cabot]

ERescue, if you are having fun and doing the best you can, do not worry about Tier. I am aware though, after assisting with other handicapped players, is that either due to funds, or the mindset of I am screwed, why pay anymore/what does it matter, is said players were also throttling themselves by playing with extremely low end systems, many times under specs, including simply using the onboard GPU + CPU combo instead of having a dedicated GPU. A top of the line system is definitely not necessary, but a few who were able to perform some upgrades, such as going from built-in GPU to a middle of the road but dedicated GPU were able to move out of the 10-20 FPS to 40 FPS. Their stats improved slightly but what improved the more was the shredding of frustration.

[Anomalocaris]

Tarl Cabot, on 17 May 2020 - 02:56 PM, said:

ERescue, if you are having fun and doing the best you can, do not worry about Tier. I am aware though, after assisting with other handicapped players, is that either due to funds, or the mindset of I am screwed, why pay anymore/what does it matter, is said players were also throttling themselves by playing with extremely low end systems, many times under specs, including simply using the onboard GPU + CPU combo instead of having a dedicated GPU. A top of the line system is definitely not necessary, but a few who were able to perform some upgrades, such as going from built-in GPU to a middle of the road but dedicated GPU were able to move out of the 10-20 FPS to 40 FPS. Their stats improved slightly but what improved the more was the shredding of frustration.

The first 4-5 months I was playing I was averaging about 20 FPS. It made playing with ballistics and PPCs very difficult. Lasers less so and lock on weapons were about the only way I could be reasonably effective. You really need to be in the 40+ FPS range at a minimum, because when you get the inevitable frame drop inherent to this game, you'll still be able to track targets. If you're at 20 FPS or less, those frame drops will drop you into single digits and you can't hit a thing unless its lock on.

Once I upgraded my rig my score started going up nicely, although TBF, I was also gaining experience too.

[Janet Yellen]

If there are going to be any tweaks to the combined solo groups, then there is a great need to increase the minimum tonnage by 200% so that if the groups PSR is below 550 for 2 player, 800 3 player and 1200 4 player so that low skilled players are not a large detriment to the rest of the team that are going to have to fight against both a large skill disadvantage as well as a large tonnage disadvantage.

[Anomalocaris]

Janet Yellen, on 17 May 2020 - 09:11 PM, said:

If there are going to be any tweaks to the combined solo groups, then there is a great need to increase the minimum tonnage by 200% so that if the groups PSR is below 550 for 2 player, 800 3 player and 1200 4 player so that low skilled players are not a large detriment to the rest of the team that are going to have to fight against both a large skill disadvantage as well as a large tonnage disadvantage.

I think I agree with your post but did you mean average match score instead of PSR?

[Voice of Kerensky]

Weeny Machine, it is unfortunate that you decided to leave the game. Maybe you just need a break from the game? Or at least for some time not to play a QP, but to go to the FP?
Hah... MWO Good game, people get tired of it. I am also tired. But I do not want to leave this game. Games in the BTT universe are unfortunately very few.
PGI, you made two big mistakes:
1) When you decide to satisfy those who are whining about the lack of a group game, by mixing groups and a solo quick play.
2) You decided to combine group and solo play on the crooked foundation of a miserable matchmaker and a terrible player level system.
As a result, you get the following:
1) People who were whining about a group game will quickly get enough and within a month they will again stop playing the MWO. And for this, incidentally, will contribute to a terrible matchmaker and players level system. When these people will enter the battle in a group in the hope of breaking all the opponents and winning, and will drop on the premade of the top units in the enemy team. I assure you, they won’t get any pleasure, their desire to play will not increase.
2) During the mixed queue test, you will lose some players who regularly played, but who didn’t like your decision to combine group and solo games.
3) People who have played enough in the group will stop playing again + people who did not like this experiment will also leave = online games will sag significantly.
4) Group mode with quick play will be used by players. Top units in order to run for fun and mockery of weaker and not organized players. Just for fun.

P.S. Pay attention, the top units or groups of very strong players for some reason do not to intersect in a quick game in enemy teams. I don’t know why, maybe this is an coincidentally. Or maybe they try not to intersect in groups in a quick play, so as not to spoil their pleasure in the game "arrange rout and humiliation for pugs".

Edited by Voice of Kerensky, 17 May 2020 - 11:09 PM.

[C337Skymaster]

Sniper09121986, on 17 May 2020 - 09:32 AM, said:

Yeah, well, I was thinking of https://en.wikipedia...be_(film_series)



Yet another happy customer... Sorry to see that, really. For me the biggest selling point of MWO has been that it is based on BT universe, and it is not like we have an abundance of computer games for that. Thus head honchos in other dev companies may very well judge the entire franchise by MWO, and we might not see another BT product in another decade or so. I understand that you are burnt out, and I by no means condone PGI's decisions in this matter. All I ask is for you to hold some faith in store in case a miracle happens and PGI discovers reason and common sense.

We need community run projects to be licensed and authorized by MS (or at least, they need to turn a blind eye), such as MWLL, and all the community mods for HBS' Battletech. It seems like the community has the passion, experience, personal investment, and knowledge to turn out actually decent BT universe games. Combine MWLL with MWO's graphics, and you have yourself an AMAZING combined-arms game. It doesn't make money, though, and THAT'S all anyone with licensing rights actually cares about.

[ERescue]

@Horseman, Tarl Cabot, Bud Crue, Anomalocaris + others: Thank you all for the feedback, much appreciated.

I do have one (at least) more question, which I would like some insight into, if you can. Given the data you already have, can you explain the following discrepancy I am seeing? I went through some of my latest screens shots (from the newest backwards). The following numbers are my overall positions out of all 24 players in game (based on MS, loss / win indicated, occasional extra notes):

20 (L), 8 (W), 19 (L), 14 (W), 14 (W), 9 (W), 13 (L), 16 (W), 18 (L), 14 (W), 19 (L, 11-12), 22 (W), 2 (W, best of my own team, only one pilot on the losing side had higher MS), 11 (W), 12 (W, 12-0 stomp), 19 (L), 14 (W), 18 (L), 15 (L), 15 (L), 23 (L), 15 (W), 14 (L), 23 (L, 11-12), 16 (L), 22 (W), 20 (L), 19 (L), 17 (W), 15 (W), 13 (W), 8 (L, best of my own team, 6-12), 18 (L), 21 (L), 13 (L), 19 (L), 21 (L), 20 (W), 7 (W), 22 (L), 20 (L, 1-12), 18 (L, 9-12), 24 (L, 2-12), 23 (L, UAC 20 to my head), 20 (L), 21 (L), 22 (W), 22 (L), 18, (L, 0-12 stomp), 16 (W), 9 (W, 12-2), 15 (W, 6-8 on base capture), 24 (L, no excuses here, died 1st, really horribly bad even for me), 10 (L, 7-12), 9 (W), 8 (W, 12-2), 7 (W, 10-6 on base capture, only one foe had higher MS), 3 (W, 3rd MS, 3rd damage, alive, no kills, ERSmurf), 15 (W, very low MS despite two kills and surviving, ERSmurf), 20 (L), 17 (L, 10-12, really hard fought match for both sides, nine people got over 400 MS and only four got less than 150), 7 (win, alive, ERSmurf, full solos vs 2-man + solos, 12-3), 20 (L, apparent 2-man + solos own, full PUG foe), 10 (L, apparent full PUGs both), tied 20, W (4-6, on circle capture, apparent full PUGs both), 4 (W, apparent full PUG own vs 2-man and possible second 2-man, 12-6, 2 kills + stuff, alive, ERSmurf), 8 (W, 12-1, alive, ERSmurf), 20 (L, own side 3-man, foe apparent full PUG), 22 (L), tied 16 (W, 12-8), 21 (W), 21 (L), 14 (W, 12-4, apparent full PUG vs 2-man grupp + solos), 10 (L, 2-12, apparent full PUG own, 2-man + solos foe), 14 (W), 24 (L, 2-12, a single, soloing high skill foe pretty much took down whole team scoring 4 kills and assists on almost everyone else while doing only about 500 damage, I hit multiple foes, but none of them went down), 13 (W, 12-1, enemy had a cadet team, but that team scored their only kill), tied 13 (L, 4-6, on base capture), 22 (L, 2-12, enemy had a cadet team that killed three and damaged all others), 4 (W, alive, 12-3, apparent full PUGs), 20 (L, 2-12, enemy has two confirmed 2-mans, own team appears to be full PUG), 22 (L, 2-3 (two-three), on base capture, losing team had higher average MS), 7 (W, 12-6 despite multiple cadets in own team, none in foe), 24 (L, 2-11, non-AMS 'Mech dies to massive LRM and ATM rain), 3 (L, 2-12, 2nd highest damage, 3rd MS, enemy team has four cadets vs our one) and I think I will stop here.

There are multiple really poor games in that series and only a handful of really good ones. But my basic question is this: If I am statistically likely to be the weakest player out of all 24, how does the result level vary as much as above?

Additionally, as the sample is rather small, is the appearance that teams lose more than they win a pure anomaly due to lack of sample size?

[Sniper09121986]

C337Skymaster, on 18 May 2020 - 02:32 AM, said:

Combine MWLL with MW5's graphics

FTFY because MWO uses an ancient version of CryEngine with all sorts of licensing traps and technical handicaps while MW5 uses a pretty much omnipotent Unreal Engine that is basically free to use as you please. Otherwise agree, the BT has one of the most loyal and mature followers in gaming history, and HBS saw exactly that when they have decided to go for Battletech (and Shadowrun for that matter). And I would disagree on the moneymaking potential, because judging by all the titles and badges on the forum MWO players are not exactly poor boys

[C337Skymaster]

Thank you for fixing it. I've actually been among those quietly wondering and hoping that MWO will be ported to Unreal Engine at some point (hoping, among other things, that it'll fix the invisible walls issue). I just haven't played MW5, yet, and as such have no direct experience with its graphics, while I play MWO almost daily.

As for moneymaking, I'm just noting that the playstyle of MWLL doesn't lend itself to monetization, as it is currently not monetized and all progress is reset each new match (which I personally feel lends to the fun and replayability of that game, and saves the players from creating alt-accounts when they want to start over ). The monetization of that particular game would come from license sales (selling the game), rather than the free-to-play model that MWO follows. Which, now that I've said that out loud, stands as a reasonable source of profit, given that's the exact form of profit that made MW2, MW3, and MW4 as wildly successful as they were.