849 replies to this topic

[Thebackson]

Reset it. it would be good for the match making and make it harder to reach tier 1. I wouldnt even mind a 6th tier to help balance the top 5% of players evenly on both sides.

[Dionnsai]

AnUndeadMonkey, on 25 May 2020 - 04:33 PM, said:

Don’t rest any tier rankings. I’m not going to grind from T4 to T1 again. Last time I sat in T3&T2 for close to a year before moving out of them. I’ll quit, and I played since beta. The matches are far from balanced. I have had matches were one team has had 1 assault class Mech and the other had 4 assault class mechs, this past Saturday. The group queue and solo mix screwed everything up. You have 4 mans running off doing their own thing ignoring the rest of the “team” and everyone loses by a 12-0 stomp. The solo QP games are trash, bring back knockdown and escort since you want the game play to suck. Must really be trying to push players away.

What you're saying here implies that you are not good enough to be tier 1, you should probably be tier 3 or 4 and stay in that tier, that way you're matched against pilots of a similar skill level more often.

Reset the tiers and keep them zero sum, get rid of the exp bar.

[Vox Mechina]

R E S E T P S R

[CFC Conky]

I'm ok with it, it will change things up a bit, I can live with that.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[Widfara]

Reset it and do it every year.

[Decency]

Paul Inouye, on 25 May 2020 - 03:41 PM, said:

[color=red]HOWEVER:[/color]

There's still an elephant in the room. PSR calculations. Yes it's true that it biases upward movement. That bias comes from the formula currently saying that if you LOSE, you can still move up if you perform well. THIS is the aspect that breaks zero sum distribution.

That being said, we have a plan to make PSR zero sum... but, there's a big draw back. If we make this change, the PSR rankings for all players will need to be reset. That means if you're Tier 1, you'll be going back to Tier 4 for a bit. If you're Tier 5, you're also going back to Tier 4.

There is a multiplier for the first 20 games all players play that push your PSR changes higher or lower to speed the seeding process of the PSR player distribution. After those 20 matches, regular PSR zero sum values will be used.

We need your feedback on whether this is acceptable or not (losing current Tier standings).

This is the primary thing that matters and absolutely needs to be done. You will inevitably hear a lot of complaints from average players who have convinced themselves that they are in the top 20% due to PSR tiers but will not be able to get back there. There's no real way around this- everyone can't be the best and it's worth the struggle to have a meaningful ranking system.

[Tranderas]

You should make it zero-sum by making it possible to lose PSR doing particularly poorly on a win, not by making it impossible to gain on a loss.

I'd support doing away with PSR entirely over any other plan because when the quarantines end and the player base goes under 300 concurrent you won't have the players to support MM anyway.

Edited by Tranderas, 25 May 2020 - 05:28 PM.

[Sithis of the Dark Brotherhood]

Not going to help and you will soon lose even more player base. The issue is that 1% players are crushing your less skilled. This only leads to people leaving. Time+Match score average to pick teams.

[Nearly Dead]

I thought that I was just adjusting to the "new norm", I am glad you tightened things up a bit, thank you.

I would like to see tier inflation removed. Again, thank you. In all honesty I have been thinking of doing a name change to see how I would do now that I have a few months in the game to learn the ropes, this would be better.

Two issues that I see, as a middle rank player who is on the fence about continuing to support the game.

Based on the attitudes of many of the players recently dominating the new QP I assume that the group queue had purged itself of a lot of below average players. If that happens in QP, where are we?

Comms. A lot of the most powerful teams drop, play the match, and leave in total silence as far as the rest of the team can hear. I would not want PGI to do anything to force people to use in game comms. However if they were to improve the in game comms and make it easier for teams to communicate before, during and after the drops it might be a good thing for the game. IMHO, the most satisfying matches are the ones where not only did you play well, you played well as part of a team.

[SneekiBreeki]

Reset PSR and make it zero sum, DO IT!

[Anomalocaris]

JoeCold, on 25 May 2020 - 05:12 PM, said:

Two things, and I'm not really sure if they are comments or questions:

First, I definitely have seen stomps up recently, not down. Worse, it looks to be directly related to the groups in the match. If one team's group plays well and the other team's group poorly, your team crushes and vice versa. Worse, if this disparity happens, it doesn't appear to matter how well or poorly the other players on each team play - the 4 man groups control the tide. I'm still for mixed queues, but doesn't this problem need to be addressed for it to work out?

Second, why does win/loss affect PSR at all? Isn't it pilot skill, not teamwork skill? In fact, if anything, your team getting stomped should count as a mitigating circumstance to your performance if you're in the, random number for example, second half of your team killed since you can't have as good personal statistics when your team gets stomped as you would have otherwise as the opponent can gang up on you so quickly. Even if you do well, you probably would have done better if you hadn't suddenly had a 4 on 1 situation. To a lesser extent, the opposite is true as well, i.e., its easier to do well personally when your team stomps, so why does the PSR system reward you even further for being on the winning team?

Well said. If one or two players carry a huge load in a match with a bunch of potatoes but still lose, why do they get punished for being saddled with crap teammates? Winning means you're going to tend to do more damage, have more kills, assists, anyways so you'll have a higher matchscore regardless.

Sithis of the Dark Brotherhood, on 25 May 2020 - 05:28 PM, said:

Not going to help and you will soon lose even more player base. The issue is that 1% players are crushing your less skilled. This only leads to people leaving. Time+Match score average to pick teams.

The only way they could mitigate the impact of groups is to assign balance by group skill level as well. I don't know if their matchmaker is even capable of it.

They really should have done a PSR reset/change before trying this mixed queue. But PGI's gotta PGI.

[Fiona Marshe]

PSR reset

AND

Analyse the data after 4 weeks of also only using last 100 matches (depending on how you tally the back end).

[D U N E]

I would like to agree with further discernment between skill levels. World champions should be able to drop in tier 1/2/3 games, though I do think they should be given their own tier that the match maker can notice, and balance accordingly.

That or tier 1 becomes near impossible to get into, and that becomes the game maker tier.

[DevilCrayon]

Yes, please do reset PSR and set it to zero sum.

[nuttyrat]

#YESPLEASE

PSR Reset + Zero Sum!

[DanMechMan]

+1 for the PSR reset and zero sum

[Anomalocaris]

Something else to think about - given that groups tend to have an advantage once a certain minimum skill level is reached, how do we even assign PSR appropriately in a mixed queue? People who play in groups more often will have a higher relative PSR (they tend to win more). Not a problem if they drop in a group, but if they drop solo they're going to be ranked too high and hurt their team.

[kawaiiChiimera]

Please make PSR useful. It's weird getting matches with Bowser and Derek when, also on their team, is a player that plays a bad stock mech and gets 70 damage every match. Please try to make teams and match skill more consistent.

[Warning incoming Humble Dexterer]

AnUndeadMonkey, on 25 May 2020 - 04:33 PM, said:

Don’t reset any tier rankings. I’m not going to grind from T4 to T1 again. The matches are far from balanced.

In most games grinding to top Tier is a good thing, that unlocks new items and maps...

But in MWO your Tier rating is your shield : The lower your Tier, the more you are protected from the experienced top Tier players, and raising a Tier means your average match difficulty is going up, and your average gains per match are going down.

But the current Tier system is biased in a way to keep pushing you up no matter how bad you perform, which means :
- You'll end up forced into the Tier 1 maximum difficulty level, no matter how little you belong to Tier 1.
- In Tier 1 you'll be surrounded by Tier 5 level teammates that will bring your team down, no matter how much you belong to Tier 1.

That's why if asked, many Tier 1 players would rather return to Tier 2 if given the option, because Tier 1 is not a status symbol, or a feature unlocker, or a bonus reward provider... it just and only represents your difficulty level, or at least it would be if the Tier system was working properly instead of always forcing every last Tier 5 player into Tier 1 over time.

If you find your matches were too hard : Resetting the rankings after fixing the PSR formula will make your matches easier.
If you find your matches were too easy : Resetting the rankings after fixing the PSR formula will make your matches harder.

Meaning everyone wins, except the masochists and farmers.

So expect most Tier 1 players who understand how current Tiers work, to be in favor of fixing and resetting the Tiers even if that means sending them back to Tier 4 for a while. Those who will lose out the most, are in fact the Tier 5 players who will be temporarily RAISED UP to Tier 4 too early for their own good, if only at first, until the top players quickly climb back from Tier 4 to Tier 1 where they belong to go fight each other, while the other players don't.

And until those top players climb straight back to their Tier 1 difficulty level, the new Tier 4 will just be a copy of what the current old Tier 1 is : A messy mix of every player who simply played MWO long enough to have been forced into their current Tier.

Aren't you curious : What Tier will you really belong too, after the PSR formula has been fixed to stop forcing you into Tier 1 ?

Edited by Warning incoming Humble Dexterer, 25 May 2020 - 05:55 PM.

[Remover of Obstacles]

Set the PSR to Zero Sum and RESET.

Why the hell wasn't this done YEARS ago?!