849 replies to this topic

[Jochi Kondur]

I vote for PSR reset. Besides the implementation of the zero sum mechanism to PSR progression, I'd like to see the introduction of a way to further segment the PSR upward progression on the winning team - i.e. have negative/downward PSR progression for the player with the lowest match score on the winning team and neutral/no upward PSR progression for the player with the 2nd lowest match score.

[Kynesis]

Why on Earth would new players want to match themselves against people who have the skill to play competitively?
That's like suggesting an occasional game of soccer against Manchester U. (insert whatever sport/team you prefer to think of there, of course).
Nobody likes stomps (on either side), playing in a tier that represents your skill and gear level should be the obvious goal.
If you can climb the ranks as a weekend warrior and slap Salami with the best of them, that's awesome; More power to you.
At the end of the day though, even such talented people want the same thing - to play challenging matches, against people of similar skill (and gear/builds).

Edited by Kynesis, 26 May 2020 - 12:10 AM.

[X Player]

AndiMech, on 25 May 2020 - 11:50 PM, said:

And about your threat of leaving MWO with a KDR of well below 1.0:
With that you would help all future teams you would be a part of more than sticking around, soooo...

Well that's kinda rude, isn't it? Let everyone have their opinion,no matter how bad they may be at the game. Maybe they like boating LRMs like I did back when I first started playing. Not getting many kills that way, nevertheless can be quite helpful to the team if done right.

On topic: I was looking forward to the day PSR got reset. Imho they should have implemented a reset cycle every 6 months or so from the very beginning since they knew almost everyone was bound to end up in T1 given enough time.

[LordNothing]

Brightsoul, on 25 May 2020 - 04:23 PM, said:

Yep I get that. What I'm saying is that if you have a pre-made of top 1%s you need to put a full team of Tier 1 people on the other team to counter balance that, and then give the top 1%s a bunch of tier 2 or tier 3 players. That might make the match less stompy...

i think the way to do this is to ensure that each tier has precisely 20% of the population. this will make the tier system a relative placement compared to other active players, so you might get some float near the thresholds without any player interaction as the others move about. but i dont see this as much of a problem and might actually be preferred behavior.

alternatively you might use a bell curve distribution, instead of flat 20% slices, with most of the players being t3. i think populations distributions for would look something like this: 2%, 14%, 68%, 14%, 2%. that way if you are in t1 you actually have to belong there.

Edited by LordNothing, 26 May 2020 - 12:25 AM.

[Suune]

Remove current ranking. Make 4 tiers and reset ranking monthly. 4th for new players and people with low kd. 3th and 2th for most players and top tier ranked and rewarded on the end of the month. Allow people to mix between closest tiers. 4th with 3th, 3th with 4th and 2th, 2th with 3th and 1th, 1th with 2th.
Base ranking calculations on how many people from other tiers you encounter in a match.
Make a ranking just big monthly event with prices like decals for best players.

[Krashbox]

Nuke it from orbit and reset the tiers and zero it. I should never have reached tier 1 - I'm horrible. If folks are playing with similar skilled players I think they'll enjoy the game more.

[BROARL]

make mechwarrior5 PvP, all tier stuff starts over and all the work you are doing goes somewhere we pray has a future?

[vonJerg]

Reset it pls

[LordNothing]

i approve paul's plan (things i thought i would never say). reset it, zero sum, do it yesterday.

[David Sumner]

CompleteFailure, on 25 May 2020 - 06:01 PM, said:

Been saying for years that the PSR calculation needs to be revised. Win/loss needs to have MUCH less weight when determining movement on the PSR scale, if not no effect at all. I do think that someone on a losing team that does exceptionally well despite the loss could still have a positive PSR movement, and someone who does exceptionally poorly despite winning could still have a negative PSR movement. I think the PSR system should, more than anything else, measure PERSONAL performance (hence the "P" in Pilot Skill Rating), with winning/losing a match having little to no effect on that score. Tier 5 should reflect like the bottom 10% of performers, and tier 1 the top 10%. The vast majority of players should fall somewhere within tiers 2-4, based on their personal average performance. IMO yes, the MM system has its flaws that need to be addressed to create more balanced matches, while still keeping wait times down, but I believe that how PSR is calculated in the first place is a large part of that problem. Currently, a large percentage of players in T1 shouldn't be there at all, the only reason they are is because they've played for long enough. Their ranking doesn't reflect in any way their actual skill level.

EDIT: Resetting and making it "zero sum" is probably a step in the right direction, I guess I'd like to see a more exact definition of "zero sum."

Perhaps your PSR change should be determined by your "raw match score" / team "raw match score" in some way?

I got 50, my team average was 45, I go up (10/9 - 1) = 1/9 of a point. Doesn't matter if we won or lost.
Perhaps if you are in a group, you use the higher of the team average and the group average to determine your PSR change, or count the group scores twice.

[Rathnor1]

I barely come to these forums, let alone post, but I'd just like to put my vote in the reset PSR tier + zero sum pile. I don't feel good stomping lower tier players and I'm sure they don't like it either.

[Too Much Love]

PSR system doesn't work when the teams are composed of basically random people.

In order for PSR to be efficient it must deal with a) individual player (like in Solaris) or B ) permanent team (like in Championship).

When it calculates the average performance of 12 different people grouped together by chance (picked up by...the same PSR) it meaningless.

Would it be fair to evaluate the performance of single student by the average marks of the class? Especially if the class reassembled every 15 minutes.

So it won't make any difference whether you restart PSR or not, in the end it will produce the same poor results.

Edited by drunkblackstar, 26 May 2020 - 01:16 AM.

[Bowelhacker]

I'm really not sure why they even need to ask. Fixing the tiers has been a massive complaint for years.

SO DO IT!!

Although the way any kind of reward system works in this game needs to be sorted. You can smash through the enemy personally but the rest of your team sucks and you get penalised for it.

Edited by Bowelhacker, 26 May 2020 - 01:18 AM.

[Bistrorider]

Jeez, this thread is like quantum physics for me… Dang, I wanna play, whatever PSR, tier sh..t gonna be, but I'm grounded. Need to service my laptop. OMG.

One think from me: In any multi game new players play with experienced players, even at the beginning. Whatever it gonna be new players can't be left playing only with themselves. Playing with vets is the way to learn something. Maybe some random formula which sometimes will drop few vets to newbie matches? I like the idea to mix between closest tiers, but then it can be problem with finding a match. Some prizes for top players at the end of the month is good idea imo. Also there should be some topic at the forum, like list, with best 10 or best 100 from any month of playing quick play.

[Garran Tana]

Do it. I'm happy with the recent changes, but even with that.. I don't feel the will to play much.

[Bennesto]

"I worked hard for my T1" always makes me laugh. If you have to WORK to get T1 in an upward-biased rating system, that pretty much proves the point of NOT BELONGING THERE. Getting rid of that stupid xp bar should have been done years ago.

[Ebelon]

resetting might feel a bit of "losing" something for most "casual players" like me (since I worked hard to reach tier 2 and I am "only" 50% away from tier 1 for now.

Is the PSR really a thing, that must be shown / indicated to the player, so a reset feels like losing something which was hard earned / grinded?

So how about just removing the PSR indicator? Do not show it to the players anymore, but only use it "secretly" to have a better matchmaking. So you are able to do some finetuning without upsetting the playerbase.
Of course be transparent about it, clarify how it works, note the changes in the backround, if you do some, but do not make the Tier something, which might appear as "earned" and nobody wants to lose.

So my suggestion: remove any indicator and then you are fine to reset and adjust as you wish.

Edited by Ebelon, 26 May 2020 - 01:34 AM.

[LordNothing]

technopredator, on 26 May 2020 - 12:58 AM, said:

IMO we should all go back to Tier 5, why Tier 4? this means players that are new and can't even pass Tier 5 will be taken to matches with Tier 4- players and get stomped everytime, Not Fair At All; Tier 4- players I don't think they would mind being Tier 5 again, since they'll quickly ascend the tiers and the tier rating/tanking is irrelevant for the player, exept for MatchMaking, so why is this even a question? Of Course we should reset, but to Tier 5. Let's make it happen June 1, at 00:00 hours; 15 minutes prior no new matches would be possible, all games would end by then and everyone would be logged off the server, so the server can have enough time to reset everyone and then maybe would be necessary restart itself, to take the new configuration and game mode.

YES; MAKE IT HAPPEN, ASAP, LET'S FIX THIS GAME ONCE AND FOR ALL.

ALSO GO WITH UNREAL ENGINE AND C++, AND LEAVE CryEngine and .NET/C# Slowness; Intermediate Languages Suck!

t3 makes more sense as the best/worst players would have less distance to cover. starting at a low tier makes more sense when you bubble up, but with a symmetric system you probably want them to fan out from the center instead. the bulk of players are going to end up in t3 anyway.

im not sure the problem with pgi is that they write slow code, its that they write little code. even when they were actually doing stuff with the game they didnt write much code. im not sure that vms are really that much of a bottleneck anymore. any code that is performance critical can always be compiled to a dll and dynamically linked in the vm (for the record cryengine uses c++, c#, and lua). also i could see pgi using c++, seg faults, access violations and memory leaks oh my. ue is c++ and unreal script, but did you play mw5, lol.

[TheWorstPlayerYouWillSeeToday]

I would welcome this absolutely.

[Sniper09121986]

technopredator, on 26 May 2020 - 12:58 AM, said:

ALSO GO WITH UNREAL ENGINE AND C++, AND LEAVE CryEngine and .NET/C# Slowness; Intermediate Languages Suck!

Not going to happen because CryEngine licence agreement prohibits switching to a different engine. MW5 is legally a different game, so they did it there, but with MWO they can only update to the recent version of CryEngine. Classic case for reading before signing.