490 replies to this topic

[Therax]

Kamikaze Viking, on 04 June 2020 - 10:03 PM, said:

I understand wanting to get the PSR changes done now and worry about improving the match score system later, but the history of changes in MWO shows that flawed systems once implemented stay unaddressed for many years. I felt that pointing out recognizable flaws with this system needed to be done now before the changes were implemented in the hopes that they would be addressed at all. I would prefer some sort of absolute win/ loss based system, but the group/ solo aspect of the queue complicates things too much.

As at this time I am unable to come up with an improved soup queue match making system I am in favour of moving ahead with Kamikaze Viking's proposal.

[General Solo]

Imo This change is the worse nightmare level change I have ever seen.

It addresses nothing and makes all the problems worse, for example:
Poor performing pilots on the winning team still cannot lose PSR, which performing poorly warrants imo when measuring PSR.
Highly performing pilots on the lossing team are penalised! Are we measuring and reflecting INDIVIDUAL SKILL by allowing this to not only continue under the new regime but in fact increase for the guid player on the losing team.

Hardly a reflection of PSR, Pillot skill rating.smh

[Ryan Grey]

[Redacted]

WE ARE TALKING ABOUTTHE casual QUICKPLAY !!!!
If you Guys are so addicted to performance and **** GO ******* PLAY COMPETETIVE
and leave quickplay alone for us casual players who play this game for fun !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tier reset ? how can you even consider this ?

I didn´t play this game from nearly the beginning enduring all the ******** before, investing so much time and money to now have my only pride "Tier" stripped from me ?

And how can you even state that the majority of players is fine with this ?
I never heard of this project before today,.. and i am playing MWO each ******* day.

All this just because you allowed those ******* competitive players again to join the casual quickplay matchmaking in teams.

Sorry but this is not ok.
I am not ok with this project and i don´t want this !!! period

[WiNNiep00h]

Remover of Obstacles, on 04 June 2020 - 10:18 AM, said:

So, a players gets 400 matchscore and happens to be on the losing side and goes down in PSR....

While the winning player gets 251 (with has the bonus points already added to matchscore for winning) and goes up?



You need to be able to go down with a 'bad effort' win and up with a 'great effort' loss.

+1

[Axys Rageborn]

Kamikaze Viking, on 04 June 2020 - 08:43 PM, said:

Please just do this.

Ryan Grey, on 04 June 2020 - 10:44 PM, said:

What the fuuuck ????

WE ARE TALKING ABOUTTHE casual QUICKPLAY !!!!
If you Guys are so addicted to performance and **** GO ******* PLAY COMPETETIVE
and leave quickplay alone for us casual players who play this game for fun !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tier reset ? how can you even consider this ?

I didn´t play this game from nearly the beginning enduring all the ******** before, investing so much time and money to now have my only pride "Tier" stripped from me ?

And how can you even state that the majority of players is fine with this ?
I never heard of this project before today,.. and i am playing MWO each ******* day.

All this just because you allowed those ******* competitive players again to join the casual quickplay matchmaking in teams.

Sorry but this is not ok.
I am not ok with this project and i don´t want this !!! period

This is why the change is needed. No offense but how can someone be in the 60% and still be fighting those at 99%?

I honestly believe people will have more fun if they are matched with those who share similar skill sets.

[Bowelhacker]

Not sure I like this punishment of players on a losing side who are diong their best but still can't reach 401 before the rest of their team gets ******. This **** needs to get away from team performance and concentrate on what the individual is doing. Because, in quick play at least, there are no "teams".

Edited by Bowelhacker, 04 June 2020 - 11:09 PM.

[Sniper09121986]

crazytimes, on 04 June 2020 - 08:47 PM, said:

Actually, the team draws you as an individual, and you actively contribute to a loss.

That argument is two months late. As it stands now, the outcome of the match is determined by two premades. If one premade is really good or just coordinates, it will roll over the other team, and everyone else in the match (on either side) will end up with low score. Their individual contribution to the outcome of the match is equally close to nil, yet half of them go up and the other half go down - all because of which side of the fence the premade landed on. And as an added benefit the PSR of players in premades is going to skyrocket without much regard to their individual performance, so they can get a massive wake-up call when they try dropping solo. If there is any judgement to be passed about the effectiveness of this change, it needs to be tested in true solo queue with no groups whatsoever. The queue people asked FROM THE VERY START of this disaster.

[crazytimes]

Ryan Grey, on 04 June 2020 - 10:44 PM, said:

I didn´t play this game from nearly the beginning enduring all the ******** before, investing so much time and money to now have my only pride "Tier" stripped from me ?

I take no pride in my XP bar... but to each their own.

Quote

And how can you even state that the majority of players is fine with this ?

Because the question was to put to the community and nearly everyone agreed. The only dissenters were people who had taken thousands more games than average to grind out the XP to get to 1.

Quote

I never heard of this project before today,.. and i am playing MWO each ******* day.

It's literally been in the announcements displayed in games for a long time.

Quote

I am not ok with this project and i don´t want this !!! period

So... don't play?

No one likes the 'new' formula that still rewards crap players that got carried... but the consensus is a PSR change is long overdue.

[crazytimes]

Sniper09121986, on 04 June 2020 - 11:11 PM, said:

That argument is two months late. As it stands now, the outcome of the match is determined by two premades. If one premade is really good or just coordinates, it will roll over the other team, and everyone else in the match (on either side) will end up with low score.

Letting 4 people groups play against cadets was not a great idea. Even PGI agreed and changed that after a while. The first few days were horrendous, but it had settled down somewhat.

Quote

Their individual contribution to the outcome of the match is equally close to nil, yet half of them go up and the other half go down - all because of which side of the fence the premade landed on. And as an added benefit the PSR of players in premades is going to skyrocket without much regard to their individual performance,

So... good? If we acually had enough people for it to matter, I would very quickly be separated from the elite groups and never see them in MM, so they wouldn't affect me in the slightest.

Unfortunately, there are not enough people for it to matter anymore. They can all be tier 1, I will drop to 3 where I belong... and MM will still open the gates to the 3 tier spread to get enough for a match, so I will end up in the same games again. The theory of them being seperated out is great, but won't happen.

[DontStandBehindMe]

Any players P(ersonal) S(kill) R(ating) should be based on their average match performance not how well the other 23 players in a match perform. Wins/Losses shouldn't be part of the calculation of personal skill unless you are measuring 1v1 matches. If a person performs better than their average match performance then their PSR should go up and if they perform worse than their average their PSR should go down. As long as you have wins and losses weighed more heavily than a player actual performance (where a winning player cannot loose PSR and a loosing player cannot gain PSR) you will continue to have a system where the more you win the more likely you will be on the winning team next match and the more you loose the greater your chance of being on the loosing team next match...or in essence a system whereby the matchmaker has a greater chance of determining the outcome of a match than the people in the match.

A bigger issue I don't really see mentioned here is how will the matchmaker handle groups relative to individual PSR. Will a group of 4-tier 5 pilots be matched against a group of 4-tier 1 pilots and how will the other 16 solos be balanced out? What about groups that have mixes of tiers (like a tier 4, 2-tier 2 and a tier 5), how will the match maker balance this with say another team that does have any grouped players? And the biggest question of all which someone already mentioned...over time, as more and more people come to realize that they have a better chance of "performing well" in a group rather than dropping as a random solo, what happens when there is nothing but 4 man groups in the que (because all the solos are tired of getting stomped/rolled/watching their PSR go down even if they did really well in a match)???

Please reconsider you version of zero sum and listen to your player base. Consider implementing a system where PERSONAL SKILL is based on personal performance. If you want to have a game that is fun for all levels of skills then winning shouldn't be the be all/end all of playing MWO because with a 30+% stomp rate more and more people will get frustrated and quite if they keep loosing match after match after match....

[Laser Kiwi]

Chatin The Skunk, on 04 June 2020 - 09:49 PM, said:

"Match Score: 401+ does not move."

Were you guys high when you came to this decision?

As stated 30% are stomps. My w/l is around 50% in pubs with randoms, so with this new method I'd either continuously lose rank or never gain rank unless I played with a team.... I am simply dumbfounded. Not logged in here in months and had to come here to say whiskey tango foxtrot.

That said I could care less on the tier reset... it has needed one for years, but I don't agree to the PSR changes unless you remove the win/loss requirement. PSR should be adjusted by performance values alone in my opinion for pubs.

On the other hand if an assault lurm boat comes along and hogs locks for 500 match score and loses, he deserves to drop psr 2 times over for letting the team down....

[Laser Kiwi]

Sniper09121986, on 04 June 2020 - 11:11 PM, said:

That argument is two months late. As it stands now, the outcome of the match is determined by two premades. If one premade is really good or just coordinates, it will roll over the other team, and everyone else in the match (on either side) will end up with low score. Their individual contribution to the outcome of the match is equally close to nil, yet half of them go up and the other half go down - all because of which side of the fence the premade landed on. And as an added benefit the PSR of players in premades is going to skyrocket without much regard to their individual performance, so they can get a massive wake-up call when they try dropping solo. If there is any judgement to be passed about the effectiveness of this change, it needs to be tested in true solo queue with no groups whatsoever. The queue people asked FROM THE VERY START of this disaster.

Oh Gosh, i love a giggle. Massive wake up call. The dominant 4 man groups also dominated soup queue before the merge, no "wake up calls" will be noticed any which way, that's not a real argument.

having said that, returning the solo queue to solo would be fine, but to be honest, i'm not worried about the groups, some of them roll everything, but most of them are just soso really.

Edited by Laser Kiwi, 04 June 2020 - 11:37 PM.

[Sniper09121986]

Laser Kiwi, on 04 June 2020 - 11:31 PM, said:

The dominant 4 man groups also dominated soup queue before the merge

Pray tell, what groups dominated solo queue before they were even allowed there?

[Reverend Flashback]

Does an accurate skill tier system really matter that much?
I don't really think so.
At least not in quickplay.

You won't get balanced matches ever in a game like this because you can't control how people build their mechs.
The builds don't need to be necessarily bad but probably just not suited for the situation.
Most common thing is one team getting lots of lrm mechs on polar or solaris.
There are also quite a few mechs which I'd call gimmicky and not top notch but still very fun.

If you want true balance everyone needs to agree to play one type of mech.
Most likely a decently quick brawler because that's imo the quickplay meta and the reason why most stomps happen.
One team getting more speedy close range mechs and forming a nice murderball or winning the nascar.

This is not even touching the skill point issue because everyone has to skill up mechs.
Does a 0 point mech perform like one with 91 points invested?
Not even close.

So how does a skill tier matter?

[Dunderklumpen]

Sorry but what is a "Stomp"?!?!

[Sniper09121986]

Dunderklumpen, on 04 June 2020 - 11:54 PM, said:

Sorry but what is a "Stomp"?!?!

One team wiping out the other team in a one-sided fashion, like 12-1 or so.

[Thaeliaris]

Okay, so everyone seems so dead on furiously discussing the number values, I'd like to suggest taking a look at one more thing.
So we are getting the PSR reset, also we are getting the combined queue stay for good. In that case, can PGI please take a look and adjust the drop zones on the maps? Because when slow heavies/assaults get dropped in light mechs position now, it can be a death sentence for them.

Also, some folks seem to be complaining like their life depended on this PSR change/reset. While I understand some concerns, it's still supposed to be the solo queue - the more casual queue to play. For those "better" mechwarriors you have competitive play/faction play. It's only my guess but I think some of these players are so mad about the changes here, because they don't have a group, or good enough group to play and not get roflstomped in comp/faction play, but they want to "shine" here in solo queue.
Personally I like KamikazeViking's suggestion for determining the PSR change, as it's not dependant on exact Match Score Values, so for example it won't "punish" a good player on losing team who tried to carry the team and got around 380-400 MS in the end. Maybe I would add to it some conditions, if some MS values on the winning side would be really low - so that if 3 or 4 players carried really hard, and dragged the team, while others did little to nothing (so 3 or 4 mechs with score of 400-500+ and the rest circling around 150-200, maybe a bit extreme example - but my point is, to try to minimize "dragging" some people up, who shouldn't go up)

[pvt Hudsoff]

LaCroix05, on 04 June 2020 - 03:41 PM, said:

Like in ranked MOBA game, it's expected you all at the same level at ranked game. Tier 1 will only play with Tier 1. Tier 4 will only play tier 4. So if you lose to other team with the same RANK/MMR/TIER it's a fact that you are worse than them and you should lose RANK/MMR/TIER.

yeah..but you missed a thing. there is not enough players in MWO to separate T1 guys.

Edited by pvt Hudsoff, 05 June 2020 - 12:48 AM.

[Baron von ztreik]

I like to use a slow ECM Light, so I stand by the heavy ones to protect them from missiles, better than any AMS could at over 250m. I get nothing for that. Giving ECM bubble should also flow into the MS.

[That Mech]

So competitive players aren't allowed in QP just because it's casual QP... wat.

Or just hide TIERS completely and use the numbers purely for match making - I don't think most players need tiers to stoke their e-ego. Especially when many people said it is CASUAL QP, not RANKED QP.