83 replies to this topic

[Paul Inouye]

Friday June 5,2020

Putting the breaks on Tuesday's patch.

We've been going through all the feedback and want to address the big issues out there. There are clarifications that need to be made, misconceptions to clear up and possible additional tuning to address. We are not hard locked into patching Tuesday and will extend if needed.

[Tarl Cabot]

Wait.. first!! no sloppy seconds nor messy thirds.. (get ya minds out of the gutter!!)

The patch is the step in the right direction, only outstanding item is the no change on loss for a high scoring player, imho.

But listening. I would advocate a partial reset. Dropping Tier 1-2 to Tier 3 then let it ride. The low scoring players would work themselves down to Tier 4 relatively quickly.

I would also advocate dropping the max 4-man to 3-man, as well as 1/weight class for that group, potentially reducing the difficulty of trying to match weight due to 2 assaults+.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 05 June 2020 - 05:45 PM.

[MechTech Dragoon]

No change on loss should stay.
You lost. You can do as well as you want, your team didn't win.

I can do as well as i like in a game of league, if i lose i dont move up. Dont necessarily move down if i did well enough, but i dont move up.

[Katrina Steiner]

Thanks for the heads up Paul. I'd rather see you guys crunch more data and give it a few weeks if that's whats needed.

[East Indy]

There are so many variables in a team game that Win/Loss alone can't account for. W/L sort-of follows performance but in the end, it's all of the personal actions that contribute to matchscore that reflect a player. Years and years of data show this. Stuff even we can see.

The folks you're referring to have been pondering this for half a decade, Paul. Give 'em a chance!

[Thebackson]

I am glad you are doing the reset, I am even more glad that you are taking the extra time to do it right. Thanks

[Liveish]

Tarl Cabot, on 05 June 2020 - 05:30 PM, said:

Wait.. first!! no sloppy seconds nor messy thirds.. (get ya minds out of the gutter!!)

The patch is the step in the right direction, only outstanding item is the no change on loss for a high scoring player, imho.

But listening. I would advocate a partial reset. Dropping Tier 1-2 to Tier 3 then let it ride. The low scoring players would work themselves down to Tier 4 relatively quickly.

I would also advocate dropping the max 4-man to 3-man, as well as 1/weight class for that group, potentially reducing the difficulty of trying to match weight due to 2 assaults+.

Why your team lost, good players will win more than they lose and move up ?

[Krasnopesky]

Thanks for listening to the feedback Paul. Hopefully this will result in an improved system being put in place and a more enjoyable experience for everyone playing as a result.

[Tranderas]

MechTech Dragoon, on 05 June 2020 - 05:41 PM, said:

No change on loss should stay.
You lost. You can do as well as you want, your team didn't win.

I can do as well as i like in a game of league, if i lose i dont move up. Dont necessarily move down if i did well enough, but i dont move up.

League is a 5v5 superhuman-based game with respawns with very little in common with a 12v12 vehicular combat game with no respawns. The better comparison is World of Tanks, where WN8/9 give you a boost on doing well even on a loss.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

Thanks for listening to our feedback.

To me, the result of a "zero sum" system means that:
- Great performers should be Tier 1,
- Good performers should be Tier 2,
- Mediocre (average) performers should be Tier 3,
- Below average performers should be Tier 4,
- Bad performers should be Tier 5,
... all regardless of how long they've been playing. Some people have been playing since closed beta and should be ranked below average.

The current PSR system does not do that. The PSR system you outlined on June 3rd will not do that.

We all just want the game to be better and hope that a more accurate ranking system will result in better matches for everyone ... matches where top performers and below average performers feel appropriately challenged.

[ESC 907]

Man, someone pinch me! I really look forward to seeing the clarifications/alterations that are to be announced.

[dario03]

Tarl Cabot, on 05 June 2020 - 05:30 PM, said:

But listening. I would advocate a partial reset. Dropping Tier 1-2 to Tier 3 then let it ride. The low scoring players would work themselves down to Tier 4 relatively quickly.

I think doing that, and also making the point loss and gains bigger would be a good thing. Make it quicker to move up and down through the tiers. Be good for players that take long breaks or have big skill differences in different classes. Wouldn't need seeding matches either.

[Gagis]

Please keep in mind that wins and losses are only the truly accurate statistic that all of your choices and skill in the game add up to.

Whatever contribution to PSR change comes from Match Score should add up to 0 over a larger sample of matches. If it does not, PSR will be measuring something other than your contribution to winning.

[Yozaa]

In a homogeneous environment like only soloes or only groups I would agree however in a mixed group solo environment I feel that solo's have less of an effect over win/loss than previously and much less than groups have an effect on win/loss.

[Yozaa]

MechTech Dragoon, on 05 June 2020 - 05:41 PM, said:

No change on loss should stay.
You lost. You can do as well as you want, your team didn't win.

I can do as well as i like in a game of league, if i lose i dont move up. Dont necessarily move down if i did well enough, but i dont move up.

Yeah but in league if your an outstanding performer a team that wins more may pick you up next season.

[LTC Kilgore]

Paul Inouye, on 05 June 2020 - 05:27 PM, said:

Friday June 5,2020

Putting the breaks on Tuesday's patch.

We've been going through all the feedback and want to address the big issues out there. There are clarifications that need to be made, misconceptions to clear up and possible additional tuning to address. We are not hard locked into patching Tuesday and will extend if needed.

nice.


Now if only support would bother responding to tickets that get submitted, or did PGI fire them too?

[OneTeamPlayer]

1 in 3 games are a stomp and people are celebrating the idea that they need more than a week to tweak numbers in a spreadsheet and reset a UI tier bar.

Welp.

Let me say that again, 1 in 3 games are so unbalanced they end in total slaughter and this has been the case for over a month now.

Fine, you don't want to rush PSR changes, cool.

Split Solo and Group queue again so at least solo players can enjoy matches again, because what's going on now is entirely unsustainable and everyone knows it.

1 in 3, folks, 1 in 3.

[bilagaana]

The time and effort being directed at this subject on the part of the developers is genuinely appreciated. However, at this stage in the game's life cycle it's a case of 'Do something, even if it's wrong.' I will go way out on a limb here (not really) and predict that whatever approach is implemented, it can be guaranteed there will be whining about it being ill conceived, unfair, unbalanced, not recognizing a given player's true greatness...you name it. Not being a mathematician but having some experience in interpreting statistics, my supposition is that the population is too low to provide valid results and the overall player experience will not be significantly effected or noticeably improved, regardless of method.

[Yozaa]

Have to disagree
If you don't do it right!
Maybe game over

[Anomalocaris]

bilagaana, on 06 June 2020 - 10:57 AM, said:

The time and effort being directed at this subject on the part of the developers is genuinely appreciated. However, at this stage in the game's life cycle it's a case of 'Do something, even if it's wrong.' I will go way out on a limb here (not really) and predict that whatever approach is implemented, it can be guaranteed there will be whining about it being ill conceived, unfair, unbalanced, not recognizing a given player's true greatness...you name it. Not being a mathematician but having some experience in interpreting statistics, my supposition is that the population is too low to provide valid results and the overall player experience will not be significantly effected or noticeably improved, regardless of method.

TBF ill-conceived could sum up most of PGI's "improvements" to game play over the years. I don't think they're truly stupid, or bad programmers. I just don't think they play their game much and they don't know who to listen to in the community (their art department is freakin awesome though). There's a lot of good feedback out there, but they've pretty much adopted a "not invented here" approach to any suggestions IMO. I also suspect that the way the good players beat up Paul when he did play the game using various exploit mechanics has tainted his view of how the game is played and of the playerbase itself (see Dragon bowling). It might have even driven him to not play enough.

All that said, I think your final conclusion is probably right. But we can hope.