357 replies to this topic

[crazytimes]

So... next week when the same people are playing the same matches as they are now, with the same stomps by the ocassional quality 4 man... how is it going to be different exactly to how it is now?

Allow me to rephrase it- if the difference is it takes longer to get matches, then I don't play. If it doesn't take longer to get matches, then it's still just the same people in the same teams, so what changes?

[Wraith of Shadow]

... I wanted 1A to win.

Simple, easy to understand, and fair. Would've probably needed some balancing on how much MS actions gave you (less for damage, more for team support actions and mission goals like capping), but that seemed simple enough.

Now we get another system where the W/L is king. Didn't we do that already?

[Grumpy Old Man]

Well, if they roll this out, I will give it another try. As it is, I tried to play some last weekend, but after ending up in 2 matches of "organised group on one side, no group at all on other side", I logged off disgusted.

So I think I played 3 matches in the past 5 weeks.

[RRAMIREZ]

It's not clear for me… will a PSR Reset append tonigth?
Seams linked to implementation for testing, or may it be "okish" for testing?
wait and see for announcement today...

Edited by RRAMIREZ, 23 June 2020 - 12:11 AM.

[Bistrorider]

OneTeamPlayer, on 22 June 2020 - 05:39 PM, said:

Out of 4 options presented, one that wasn't on the list posted by the developers won.

Inherently amusing.

That is kinda cool.

[Kamikaze Viking]

Grumpy Old Man, on 22 June 2020 - 11:57 PM, said:

Well, if they roll this out, I will give it another try. As it is, I tried to play some last weekend, but after ending up in 2 matches of "organised group on one side, no group at all on other side", I logged off disgusted.

So I think I played 3 matches in the past 5 weeks.

Its likely it will be chaos for a week or so after the reset until people start to distribute into the correct tiers.

Unfortunately we cant do anything about the merged queue. (thats a whole different discussion, 8v8 group q + solo Opt in would have been my preference)

And while this should begin to rate players correctly and hence improve balance within a match, there ALSO needs to be a 2nd pass Team balance each match to prevent lopsided teams (which currently *seems* to happen a lot), Especially since the merging of the queue, which is not yet on the table to address.

Edited by Kamikaze Viking, 23 June 2020 - 01:43 AM.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

RRAMIREZ, on 23 June 2020 - 12:08 AM, said:

It's not clear for me… will a PSR Reset append tonigth?
Seams linked to implementation for testing, or may it be "okish" for testing?
wait and see for announcement today...

It should, there is notification about servers going down in about 4 hours. What else would it be.

[RRAMIREZ]

So long and thanks for the mech, on 23 June 2020 - 04:36 AM, said:

It should, there is notification about servers going down in about 4 hours. What else would it be.

I realyze my sentence wasn't clear.
I could be new PSR calculation without PSR reset (for testing purpose).
Wouldn't seams logic to me... but we'll see soon now ^^

[Belorion]

Is the change getting pushed today?

[Nightbird]

OZHomerOZ, on 22 June 2020 - 09:44 PM, said:

Did you account for whether the flipper is a T5 flipper or T1 flipper. Will this help our situation? And How?

If an average player with enough games will always get 1 WLR, then someone more skilled will always get >1 proportional to his skill.

OZHomerOZ, on 22 June 2020 - 09:24 PM, said:

All choices not not biased toward group, some are though.

All choices are biased towards group because grouping reduces the MS you earn and yet greatly increases your WL.

All of the choices intentionally preserves the advantage of groups by looking at MS which does not reflect the impact groups have on teams winning.

[Shock21]

Standard monthly maintenance. They did it last month without a patch

[OneTeamPlayer]

Shock21, on 23 June 2020 - 07:08 AM, said:

Standard monthly maintenance. They did it last month without a patch

They've been working on this for more than a month and it's literally just a spreadsheet change since they supposedly had planned a rollout for a similar system on June 9th.

If this isn't the update, i feel there will be a markedly negative effect on players interest in continuing to play over the coming week.

[Cluster Fox]

Nightbird, is the WLR sorting on the MM you suggested dependent on having players sorted by PSR or not?

Because if the MM team sorting is implemented -as well-, PSR as we know it becomes a first pass filter to match similar match score players, imperfect but not the highest impact. As a second pass, then the MM builds team by WLR sorting/balancing for all the benefits on reducing stomps.

PSR/Matchscore determines who plays in the game - First pass
WLR determines which team they play for - Second pass

Because combination of the two I think would be a tremendous improvement providing both WLR balance for the teams in the match and matchscore discrimination.

I don't have a model to prove it though.

Edited by Cluster Fox, 23 June 2020 - 08:03 AM.

[Xiphias]

OZHomerOZ, on 22 June 2020 - 09:24 PM, said:

All choices not not biased toward group, some are though.

Choice 1A allocates PSR movement based on player MS performance solely.
Get 500MS or top MS win or lose you gain PSR
Get lowest match score win or lose you drop PSR.
Thats the logic, and it only some what favors groups, just a little do to their overall possible increase in effectiveness compared to soloes.

Sounds fair.

Top level soloes are a menace to groups and if concentrated are a pita, using w/l seeks to prevent that due to bias against solo PSR movement when using match results w/l as PSR metric

People may say Oh Homer just wants his T1 badge?
Your wrong, I just like playing against good players but I ain't going be no cannon folder grouped with some green troops.
But allocated teammates by MM with similar skills to myself, peers I can take on alot. Maybe not win the Galaxy but I don't care, they speak my name that enough.

This is more about for those less able, will they have a good experience or will they leave?
Cause I can't have a game if the servers are off.

When I hear some of the group pre made community I wonder!
After all they killed every queue they every been in. And now they helping design a part of the match maker.
Rah roh

Groups should not have been merged with solos, however you're really hung up on the W/L compared to PSR issue and it seems like you have it completely backwards.

Yes, W/L means groups will go up more and have a higher PSR thus they will get matched up against either 1) Other strong groups or 2) Groups of strong solo players. Isn't this exact what you want?

Let me walk through it step by step:

The goal is to improve the matchmaking to reduce stomps by reducing the skill gap between team (making both teams similarly likely to get a win, right?

Playing solo vs group
Solo - Increases match score, decreases WLR
Group - Decreases match score, increases WLR

Agreed so far?

Four players in a group are more likely to win than four equally skilled players not in a group.

Still with me?


Let's just say for example purposes that being in a group shifts a player by 1 full tier. That gives us the following sets of players to work with 1,2,3,4,5 (solos) and 1g,2g,3g,4g,5g (groups).

Highest matchscore based system

T1: 1
T2: 2, 1g
T3: 3, 2g
T4: 4, 3g
T5: 5, 4g, 5g

Win/loss based system

T1: 1g
T2: 2g, 1
T3: 3g, 2
T4: 4g, 3
T5: 5g, 4, 5

Which system is better for groups?

In the first case, groups get their matchscore deflated (compared to playing solo) and end up playing against weaker players. The best solos have the highest match scores and fight each other at the top.

In the second case, the best groups get matched against each other and the second strongest groups get matched against the strongest solos.

Sorting by matchscore is better for groups because it lets them deflate their PSR and play against weaker opponents, avoiding the strong solos. Sorting by W/L pushes the groups to the top where they have to play against either each other or the strongest solos.

Consider also the case where a player goes from playing one to the other. If a primarily solo player jumps into a group in the first case then, yes they will have an easier time until the group moves up. If a primarily group player plays solo they will have an easier time until they move up.

Oppositely, in the W/L case if a primarily solo player joins a group they will have a harder time (which I think is fair). If a primarily group player plays solo they will have a harder time.

[Zephrym]

Maybe the patch is just updating a vacant role as community liaison? Or it could be a forced install of Twitter so that we can be informed of what's going on?

[OneTeamPlayer]

Well slap me hard and call me credulous.

Servers are back up, but my tier is still the same.

Silly me for expecting to see the change we were sold on over a month ago implemented today based on a twitter post by a developer (the head developer?) of this game.

[John Bronco]

Read the tweet, says nothing about an implementation. Just more details today.

[OneTeamPlayer]

BlaizerP, on 23 June 2020 - 10:30 AM, said:

Read the tweet, says nothing about an implementation. Just more details today.

Yeah that's fair, i should have expected that after talking then getting the date of June 6th, then talking in one thread, then talking again in another thread, then talking again, we'd get an announcement right before a patch day- so that we could get an announcement (not before mid-afternoon though, that would be strange for a company to do) and keep talking some more.

Very cool. Very cool.

Edited by OneTeamPlayer, 23 June 2020 - 10:51 AM.

[Annihilator]

technopredator, on 23 June 2020 - 11:25 AM, said:

What happened to the freaking patch? It was announced on Reddit and Twitter, 2C was the winner, then do the reset put the PSR+Queue system and take it from there, why there is a delay now?
https://www.reddit.c...tch_2c_was_the/

Relax dude, drink your beer like me and calm down Give them time.

[Spare Knight]

They won't do anything. This is all just lip service. SMH