642 replies to this topic

[morosis]

while we are on the subject of unanswered questions: can you also please answer my earlier question.

why, as a tier 2 pilot, am I being put almost exclusively into tier 1 games?

tonight i played a lot of games to test this. based on knowing who the good pilots in this game are, and using the post-reset leaderboards as a second datapoint, i estimate ~90% of my games tonight were with Tier 1, tested across approximately 50 games.

per your own comments, my matches are supposed to be my own tier +/- 1. that should mean that i play a balance of 2+3 games and 2+1 games. this balance appears to be failing terribly.

proposed solution: if the matchmaker is going to draw me up into a tier 2+1 game, it must balance that by drawing me down into a tier 2+3 game before it can draw me up into another tier 2+1 game.

thanks for any progress you can make on this.

Edited by morosis, 18 July 2020 - 04:44 AM.

[Horseman]

ESC 907, on 18 July 2020 - 12:04 AM, said:

And the problem of Nascar could probably be solved if PGI actually released some intelligent maps. Remove their usual "central landmark" map-layout. Facilitate more chokepoints, narrow passes, progressive cover! If one looks at almost ALL of the existing maps, they have a central focal-point. Canyon has its canyons and the central peak, HPG has the tower, TMC has the central platform... How about a map that is just a ravine, like a canyon, on a giant scale? Put outcroppings of stone along the bottom for intermittent cover, and perhaps a ledge or tunnel high-up the cliff-face for a possible flanking route? Just a map that makes the teams face each other head-on!

GuardDogg, on 18 July 2020 - 01:09 AM, said:

Totally agree. Awesome post. and more maps. One with a Orion Dropship.
More gametypes: Defend dropship, before take off. Team has to get in, while attacking team tries to destroy everyone.
Fight to get into base, while apposing team defends it.

You forget something, guys: PGI stopped releasing new content for this game. They are not going to spend several months working on new maps, new assets or redesigning modes.

[Alreech]

Horseman, on 18 July 2020 - 05:01 AM, said:

You forget something, guys: PGI stopped releasing new content for this game. They are not going to spend several months working on new maps, new assets or redesigning modes.

MWO doesn't need more maps anyway, because most players vote for simple, easy to play maps like HPG, Mining Collective, Canyon Network....

Who want's an other useless map like Terra Therma, Polar Highlands or Alpine Peaks?
Such maps are ill suited for Solo Quickplay.

[spannerturner]

Horseman, on 18 July 2020 - 05:01 AM, said:

You forget something, guys: PGI stopped releasing new content for this game. They are not going to spend several months working on new maps, new assets or redesigning modes.

I think the other thing that people forget is that PGI has set themselves on a coarse. Trying to argue points and changes, again, after they were already rejected by PGI is just a waste of time and keystrokes. The other thing people forget is these changes that were made, will take time for their full effect to be realized. Everyone wants that instant gratification instead of being patient...

I have only played a handful of games today, none in the last week due to travel for work. However, I have noticed a difference between today's matches and those from 1.5 weeks ago. Wait times have been the same (some instant to around 3-4 minutes, only use NA server), but the quality of the matches have definitely improved. The 2 or so stomps only turned into stomps after the cascade effect came into play. Otherwise, they were very close and I was surprised at the disparity in kills.

[Hiten Bongz]

CFC Conky, on 17 July 2020 - 11:26 PM, said:

So, the better one gets at MWO, the harder it gets to find a match.

Sounds like the lead programmer is a guy named Joshua...

Strange game. The only winning move is not to play.

How about a nice game of Chess?

[Crazylegz]

I don't get the new skill ranking at all, though admittedly I have not read up.. no time. I was tier 2 forever and now that I've been reset to tier 3, I only see my ranking go down, even when I do 500-600 damage in a match. Granted I don't play much anymore (been playing since before clan release) and I know I'm rusty, but I still know when I have a decent match..

Sadly, the PGI iterations of the MW/Battletech universe have taken a terrible turn for the worse. MW5 is a total disaster and one of the most boring games I have ever played. PGI abandoned MWO for that? MWO could be amazeballs if the faction play was more like Planetside gameplay where there is just perpetual action on certain planets.. you know.. like a real conflict?

QP is great, we all love QP.. but make it a Solaris competition mode since its more arena style, and then leave the rest of us to fight our squabbles on planets like God intended mechwarriors to do.. sigh, my beloved space opera languishes,

[Crazylegz]

Hiten Bongz, on 18 July 2020 - 05:42 AM, said:

Strange game. The only winning move is not to play.

How about a nice game of Chess?

LOL.. so sad.. my beloved universe.. its getting harder to bare each day. I could go for a game of chess.. Davion v Draconis Combine set

Edited by Crazylegz, 18 July 2020 - 05:50 AM.

[Crazylegz]

Horseman, on 18 July 2020 - 12:16 AM, said:

Reality check three: If you were put up with and against equal players, your win/loss ratio would trend towards 1.0 . Your performance before the reset ( https://leaderboard....rch?u=GuardDogg )

Great website, thats cool. My gameplay matches the amount of fun I have had in MWO perfectly.. total bear market graph starting from ecstasy and descending to despair.

[OneTeamPlayer]

spannerturner, on 18 July 2020 - 05:13 AM, said:

I think the other thing that people forget is that PGI has set themselves on a coarse. Trying to argue points and changes, again, after they were already rejected by PGI is just a waste of time and keystrokes. The other thing people forget is these changes that were made, will take time for their full effect to be realized. Everyone wants that instant gratification instead of being patient...

I have only played a handful of games today, none in the last week due to travel for work. However, I have noticed a difference between today's matches and those from 1.5 weeks ago. Wait times have been the same (some instant to around 3-4 minutes, only use NA server), but the quality of the matches have definitely improved. The 2 or so stomps only turned into stomps after the cascade effect came into play. Otherwise, they were very close and I was surprised at the disparity in kills.

Peak internet comment.

Why do you guys want "instant" gratification after four months of unnecessary changes radically altering gameplay?!?

Wait times are the same, they were near instant before and they're 4ish minutes now (in my tier I know nothing about other tiers) and instant and 4 minutes are the exact same plus no other tiers are reporting 10+ minute wait times with regularity!

I have only played a few games and in the peak time for matches on the weekend, therefore I don't know what you people who have played since the change, played on weekdays, during off-prime and prime, or who have reached a tier that isn't 3 are talking about?

Everything is fine for me from trying, like three (actually 35 total since the reset) times, so what's everyone complaining about?

"I ate a hearty dinner last night, so what's all this talk about world hunger? Sounds like malcontents to me!"

Edited by OneTeamPlayer, 18 July 2020 - 06:23 AM.

[OneTeamPlayer]

Alreech, on 18 July 2020 - 05:04 AM, said:

MWO doesn't need more maps anyway, because most players vote for simple, easy to play maps like HPG, Mining Collective, Canyon Network....

Who want's an other useless map like Terra Therma, Polar Highlands or Alpine Peaks?
Such maps are ill suited for Solo Quickplay.

Those three maps provide some of the most varied gameplay provided you aren't stuck with a W + M1 group. Especially like Terra Therma as it's one of the only maps that even remotely reminds players "Oh yeah, heat management used to be a major component of this game!"

Problem is that people vote for those maps (often using high multipliers) and then it's stuck on domination which, instead of encouraging multiple small engagements all over the map by using a moving circle, convinces players to walk dead center of the map and plant roots.

Honestly the maps aren't the problem in map stagnation- it's the playerbase pushing out any form of contribution that isn't purely direct damage based mixed with an exodus of mic-using, drop calling players. Can't know where to flank if there are no lights scouting, can't have lights scouting if the massive power creep leads to normalized 60+ alphas insta-gibbing the now ridiculously huge models, why bring a medium if you can bring a heavy and why bring a heavy if you can bring an assault sort of play.

Funny story, I played a few drops in which there was a competitive level group on my team recently and noted that one of the major differences was that in having a full lance of folk who were willing to listen they consistently used the main force as a pinning agent then flanked in from the side or rear causing the enemy team to either panic and split engage, or turn and drop to low rear armor in moments.

Then i thought back to the days when quite a few people had mics, lights were numerous and ran in wolfpacks as a standard, and sighed a little inside.

Map voting was a mistake and the only thing that fixed it was the vote multipliers allowing people to force a difference between the constant order of (coldest map possible > HPG > Canyon Network).

Players will optimize the fun out of a game if given the slightest opportunity, after all.

[Nightbird]

Kroete, on 17 July 2020 - 11:48 PM, said:

The top and bottom 10% are the problem.

You will allways have a normal distribution,
around 70-80% of th eplayers are average, will be average and that will never change,
you can have balanced matches with them,
but the outliers are the problem.

I mentioned that 5 tiers are too much for that small playerbase,
the outliers will have long waittimes if you want balanced matches for the majority.
Reducing tiers to 3 would make it a little better.

Pitty that our devs never though of that outcome,
and that they are canadien,
cant even use an orange clown sideswipe on them.

You're not going to get a normal distribution. At least T1 is predicted to increase in size gradually and grow to be larger than T2.

This would be true for T5 too but they are predicted to quit first before getting there.

Edited by Nightbird, 18 July 2020 - 06:56 AM.

[Rhialto]

Maybe you guys need my presence in higher Tier to lower wait time? I haven't played for a year...
When I have free time I now play Apex Legends, but in 2D. I loved playing MWO in 3D.

edit: everyone was reset to Tier 3 right? That's what my banner show now, like many I was T1.

Edited by Rhialto, 18 July 2020 - 09:05 AM.

[martian]

Rhialto, on 18 July 2020 - 09:04 AM, said:

Maybe you guys need my presence in higher Tier to lower wait time? I haven't played for a year...

Welcome back!

Rhialto, on 18 July 2020 - 09:04 AM, said:

edit: everyone was reset to Tier 3 right? That's what my banner show now, like many I was T1.

Yes, there was "the great PSR reset" two weeks ago.

Every MWO player was moved to the midst of Tier 3.

But as you can see, some players have already moved to different Tiers:




The bad news is that solo casual players now serve as food for premade groups.

Also, there is no tonnage/Mech classes balance anymore.

[Z Paradox]

bad game management 85% of the time... I don't know why Pgi don't use forums to make game better, make update, check forums, fix problems players find, update game... no, they update and go "no roll back for our bad update" like with FP update and others. I didn't play FP since then... and they lost players... no big deal, they don't care, same with next updates, and so on.
this reset was good step, if we didn't have groups with solo QP. and now they "adjusting some of the release valves" too soon, so we can wait 10min for 4min game? give game some time to sort player tiers...

Horseman, on 18 July 2020 - 05:01 AM, said:

You forget something, guys: PGI stopped releasing new content for this game. They are not going to spend several months working on new maps, new assets or redesigning modes.

no need, they can make MWO Map editor and let players make maps and then select 1 every now and then and add it to the game, like they did with that MW5 game .

Mwo is getting less fun with every next patch

[Kroete]

OneTeamPlayer, on 18 July 2020 - 06:36 AM, said:

Players will optimize the fun out of a game if given the slightest opportunity, after all.

Sad but true.

Nightbird, on 18 July 2020 - 06:47 AM, said:

You're not going to get a normal distribution. At least T1 is predicted to increase in size gradually and grow to be larger than T2.

You will have a normal distribution on player skill,
if this is not reflected in the tiers you will have a lot of missmatched players.
Thats will just be plain stupid.
But until now (15/7) the distribution is matching, we will see if it will change in the future.

The charts from paul dont say all, dont know why he cut the chart at 7000, but it removes the option to set the numbers in relation. I guess the real numbers are not that fancy then a bar that hits the ceiling.
But the long wait times are explained by it, 471 t1 over the day, if everyone of them plays 1 hour a day you would have around 19 t1 at any give time, not enough to fill a single match ...

Edited by Kroete, 18 July 2020 - 11:37 AM.

[Nightbird]

Kroete, on 18 July 2020 - 11:32 AM, said:

You will have a normal distribution on player skill,

Skill is normally distributed, but Tiers and PSR are not based on skill.Tiers and PSR are based on skill*games_played. People with lower skill and more games are rated as highly as people with more skill and lower games. Over time, more people will move to T1 and T5 and normality will disappear.

There's also the problem that MS does not really represent skill, it encourages actions that do not help your team win (LRMs, hiding in the back, not sharing armor), and discourage actions that do (clean efficient kills, helping teammates, etc)

Edited by Nightbird, 18 July 2020 - 11:37 AM.

[Kroete]

Nightbird, on 18 July 2020 - 11:35 AM, said:

Tiers and PSR are based on skill*games_played.

Games played is an xp-bar. Again? Where?

Edited by Kroete, 18 July 2020 - 11:51 AM.

[Nightbird]

Kroete, on 18 July 2020 - 11:41 AM, said:

Games played is an xp-bar. Again? Where?

The current PSR system...

[ccrider]

Nightbird's correct; I can srm bomb through a match, get 1000dmg and 3 kills and get better match score than pulse lasering 4 kills at 500dmg. One is precise and wipes the target off the board quickly. One way is fun but splatty and takes longer and enables the enemy to shoot my team longer. Yet, according to the game, I show more skill by throwing up srms all day.

[Flak Kannon]

Very interesting.

The first week was odd dropping with occasional Cadets.

Now the drops are so very challenging, as all the pilots I face are near T1 like I am. So the cake walk rounds are over and the only way to help a team is to play one of the 'stronger' mechs in game.

At this level of solo que game play, if you bring a sub par mech you will be a handicap to you team.

I like it and don't like it this way. Some times I want to casually play some of my more obscure mechs and builds, can't do that right now without getting steamrolled.

I wonder if this PSR change was for the best if it makes a large mass of players

1. more fatigued by being 'onpoint' 100% of the time
2. much longer wait times at T1

Oh well..

Time will tell.


Enjoi

Edited by Flak Kannon, 18 July 2020 - 01:03 PM.