642 replies to this topic

[Demostr8]

Guys... I am maxed T1 on my Pilot skill whatever.............. I play with the same guys every match and I SUCK. What in the holy hell are you doing in PGI

[morosis]

as others have said, I keep reading through this thread and the feedback, feeling like 8v8 with no groups is the obvious answer to solve for all three of PSR issues, wait time issues, and noncompetitive games.

completely separate thought: i also feel like PSR would be more useful as an unbounded numerical value centered at zero. is there a reason that it is constrained to values between 0-5000? wouldn't it both easier and better to just start everyone at zero and track PSR gain or lost from there as a simple number? the population would normalize and stratify on its own, which is what you want anyway, and you get to matchmake people based on a much more accurate measure of their contribution to the matches they are in.

[Mr_Breaker]

OK gave it a second run today with a fresh install and things went much smoother, however AFK's and disconnects are still an issue that needs to be addressed.

[crazytimes]

Demostr8, on 17 July 2020 - 01:51 PM, said:

Guys... I am maxed T1 on my Pilot skill whatever.............. I play with the same guys every match and I SUCK. What in the holy hell are you doing in PGI

A lot of the games I had yesterday had the same people over and over. There is not enough people playing to make more than a match or two at a time in tier 1/2, you're literally waiting for everyone to go get drinks and go to the toilet and come back to ready up to drop in the next match.

Skill level way higher than normal for QP. I enjoyed spectating some of the elite and games were a lot more intense and less NASCAR than usual. Absolutely not worth the wait though.

[-P U R E-]

Imagine fixing MM in a way that everyone can't get a match in reasonable time.

[HimseIf]

I found today. Friday for most & saturday for me, that the matchmaker is being pretty reasonable?

[Sjaerin]

Waiting times for tier 1 are far to long.

Probably just gonna stop playing to be honest.

[Redeye Sigma]

Before this change, the wait time for QP was 1 to 2 minutes. Not it takes 10 to 20 minutes or longer, and the games don't seem to matter. You still have noobs. In any case, Quick Play used to be Quick. For those of us that don't want to wait 20 minutes to get in a game that lasts 5 minutes, when we used to just jump out and jump to a game. Besides, as we all know, some of the purchased mechs are pretty hard to kill. So if you have money and time, you get better mechs. Since Tier 5 solo players have to wait 10 to 20 minutes to play now when a Tier 3 solo player gets in almost immediately, then how is anyone going to get better? And then, when you finally get to tier 4, you are likely to wait because long. In any case, the wait time is now 10 times or more longer depending on your Tier. (Correct me if I am wrong please.) And how is it, that you expect us to be happy waiting 10 times longer to get in a game, when even when you do, you can still get wasted just like before? Lots of questions here. As it stands, since this PTR has been in effect, the game takes way to long to even consider playing anymore.. So FOLKS, here how it works. IF you are Tier 1 Tier 2 or Tier 4 and especially Tier 5, you are going to WAIT A LONG TIME. I complained to Support, and they said, "Sorry for your inconvenience". HEY, I pay real money here. Now, instead of waiting 1 to 2 minutes to get in a game, I have to wait 10 to 20 minutes or longer? And for What? New players need to play to get better, but now, you let TIER 3 players just get in a game as before. The game is now NURFED. Of course, I don't think the developers here are going to admit that it takes 10 20 twenty times longer now to accomplish absolutely nothing. The quality of game play is still the same. But "everything works as expected" is what our developer in charge of this says. REALLY? The wait times are not acceptable. PLEASE JUST PUT IT BACK THE WAY IT WAS. I play to have fun. Support actually told me waiting 10 to 20 times longer to get in a game, and inconvenience..... Really !!!!! Obviously this guy was a noob, or doesn't understand what the players do. THEY PLAY !!!!

Edited by Redeye Sigma, 17 July 2020 - 06:29 PM.

[GuardDogg]

Stats and Tiers are totally wrong for MWO. PGI allows embarrassment/Bullying/Calls people out. Hey! want to see my medical chart while you are at it?

But..."As of this post, I will be making the maximum Tier separation in the match maker, 1 (one). This means a Tier 1 player should not see any other players outside of Tier 1 or Tier 2"

Oh man, this will be interesting to see, watch. Think the bad behavior is bad now in T1?

Ever hear/read that those who worked hard to T1, that players shouldn't be in T1 from other T1 players? Yeah, they look at your stats. Then say things.

******
Fix Game Types. All game types are skirmish.

For Incursion: Fight first, then when 12 enemy mechs destroyed, touch enemy base with weapon.
Should be fixed: Make a base worth defending and attacking.

Conquest: Fight first, then when 12 enemy mechs destroyed. Cap bases.
Fix: worth taking caps first while fighting defender for em.

Domination: Nascar. Not made for MWO (Or Mechs). Needs to be removed.

Skirmish, Assualt are ok. Just that domination makes/creates nascar.

[Redeye Sigma]

puresense, on 17 July 2020 - 03:54 PM, said:

Imagine fixing MM in a way that everyone can't get a match in reasonable time.

puresense, on 17 July 2020 - 03:54 PM, said:

Imagine fixing MM in a way that everyone can't get a match in reasonable time.

Yep.. Sometimes you never get in a game when you are Tier 5, you either not play, or wait another 20 minutes. These guys are not too bright. Besides, they are fixing nothing. THey should get real jobs, and leave us players play our game. We obviously like if otherwise we wouldn't play. Developers try to invent things to develop, and always at someone's expense., and that is usually the users. I know I am not happy, OBVIOUSLY !!!!!!!!

[Redeye Sigma]

Paul Inouye, on 15 July 2020 - 02:11 PM, said:

Here are the day to day Tier changes over the last 16 days since patch.

There is a slight skew upward toward Tier 1, however not as drastic as before the patch.

First chart is as of June 30,2020
































The following is the current numbers as of July 15/2020:




With that, I think we can take a quick moment to try adjusting some of the release valves in order to take advantage of player positioning.

As of this post, I will be making the maximum Tier separation in the match maker, 1 (one). This means a Tier 1 player should not see any other players outside of Tier 1 or Tier 2.

Now there are some caveates there. If a group of 3 Tier 1 players decides to add a Tier 3 or lower player to their group, there's nothing we can do about that. Next, the release valves still need to be in place but I'm going to be restricting the time it takes for them to kick in and how fast they release over time. For this first test, I'm going to set a hard restriction of 4 minutes before the release valves kick in.

As mentioned, we'll continue to monitor and adjust as needed. At the end of 3 months, we'll take a hard look at all numbers involved and discuss with you the next steps.

-Paul

THis makes no sense. You have many Tier 5 players, but you only let a small amount play. Tier 3 players get to play all the time, and everyone else have to wait or not get a game at all. Then, how is it fun? You just have Tier 3 players playing Tier 3 players, all with different skill sets, or maybe not... but the other players, that are not in Tier 3, like ME, you take out of the game, because only a very small percentage of Tier 5 players get in a game, because they are patient enough? What you did is nerf the game.

[Redeye Sigma]

Demostr8, on 17 July 2020 - 01:51 PM, said:

Guys... I am maxed T1 on my Pilot skill whatever.............. I play with the same guys every match and I SUCK. What in the holy hell are you doing in PGI

EXACTLY !!!!! I am Tier 5, and kill Tier 1 all the time.... BUt of course, I get killed too. Part of the fun. Obviously this guy hasn't a clue as to why players play the game. We play to PLAY, not wait 10 to 20 minutes then just log off.

[morosis]

Alreech, on 16 July 2020 - 11:59 PM, said:

What team?
A bunch of players that is mixed up for each match than disbanded afterwards is not a team.
Why should I care about other players if they are not in "my team" the next match?
Why should I risk my only Mech in that match by helping other players? Staying alive, farming damage and stealing kills is much more sensible. And playing NASCAR is the best way for it.

What tactics?
Most MWO game modes don't have clear objectives or clear attacker / defender roles, and even the few game modes with it are played best by "playing deathmatch first and capture later".
You don't need a tactic in deathmatch, NASCAR is just fine.

Tactic is also all about coordination:
No player is bothering to take the lance leader and give out orders, and even if:
The Lance Leader don't even know how fast his "team mates" Mechs are and their armament. How he should decide what to do without that information?

If you want tactical game play group up before the game using the LFG or inviting players from your friendslist.
Agree on a Lance Leader, agree on what Mechs to play.
But that is exactly that most Solo Players don't want. They don't want to group up before the game to coordinate.

You can't have Solo Quickplay (no need to group up before match, short games with no respawns, new "team" for each match) and tactical game play.

thanks for sharing your perspective. i appreciate that everyone has fun in different ways. to me your kill stealing and damage farming playstyle seems pretty selfish, but if thats how you have fun then im not going to tell you differently. i do however think this is a small community and that the manner in which you play matters. you're going to see a lot of the same people over and over, and maybe next time they dont come help you if they know you only care about yourself.

i do owe you a clarification though. i am not talking about "rotation" when i say i hate nascar. most maps have a natural rotation as the two teams move into the center and people move from cover to cover. this is not only fine, its normal. the more people can stay in motion and get fire on the enemy the better. "nascar" is when it becomes brainless sprinting to the center of the map without regard to where the rest of the team is or how badly everyone is getting separated, leaving assaults behind to die, basically forfeiting the game with silly autopilot rotation for no reason, not giving your team a chance to group up and work together. if it was not clear, this is what i am referring to.

more on topic, i have played 9 games today and i have been in 8 brutal stomps and one game in which my team had 2 disconnects. safe to say matchmaking quality is not good.

[CFC Conky]

So, the better one gets at MWO, the harder it gets to find a match.

Sounds like the lead programmer is a guy named Joshua...



Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Edited by CFC Conky, 17 July 2020 - 11:27 PM.

[Kroete]

The top and bottom 10% are the problem.

You will allways have a normal distribution,
around 70-80% of th eplayers are average, will be average and that will never change,
you can have balanced matches with them,
but the outliers are the problem.

I mentioned that 5 tiers are too much for that small playerbase,
the outliers will have long waittimes if you want balanced matches for the majority.
Reducing tiers to 3 would make it a little better.

Pitty that our devs never though of that outcome,
and that they are canadien,
cant even use an orange clown sideswipe on them.

[ESC 907]

GuardDogg, on 17 July 2020 - 06:30 PM, said:

Fix Game Types. All game types are skirmish.

For Incursion: Fight first, then when 12 enemy mechs destroyed, touch enemy base with weapon.
Should be fixed: Make a base worth defending and attacking.

Conquest: Fight first, then when 12 enemy mechs destroyed. Cap bases.
Fix: worth taking caps first while fighting defender for em.

Domination: Nascar. Not made for MWO (Or Mechs). Needs to be removed.

Skirmish, Assualt are ok. Just that domination makes/creates nascar.

IMHO, Domination could simply be altered a bit. Perhaps make it more like a "King Of The Hill" gamemode? Edit: Forgot to mention that I believe something like "Capture The Flag" MIGHT be entertaining for MWO. And a possible replacement for Domination.

And the problem of Nascar could probably be solved if PGI actually released some intelligent maps. Remove their usual "central landmark" map-layout. Facilitate more chokepoints, narrow passes, progressive cover! If one looks at almost ALL of the existing maps, they have a central focal-point. Canyon has its canyons and the central peak, HPG has the tower, TMC has the central platform... How about a map that is just a ravine, like a canyon, on a giant scale? Put outcroppings of stone along the bottom for intermittent cover, and perhaps a ledge or tunnel high-up the cliff-face for a possible flanking route? Just a map that makes the teams face each other head-on!

Edited by ESC 907, 18 July 2020 - 12:05 AM.

[Horseman]

GuardDogg, on 17 July 2020 - 06:30 PM, said:

Hey! want to see my medical chart while you are at it?

Why would we. It's not like it's proof of some major disability that excuses your attitude here... is it?

Quote

Oh man, this will be interesting to see, watch. Think the bad behavior is bad now in T1?

Dude, can this nonsense. You got it in your head that somehow players who perform better than you are these toxic, sociopathic barbarians incapable of civil behavior.

Stop assuming that the attitude of some random streamer you've been watching (who was it, BTW?) is a representative sample of all competitively minded or high-performing players.

The very existence of player-run competitive leagues proves you wrong. It takes a serious dose of introspection and humility to accept one's own shortcomings and grow beyond them - and that is the key to improving your performance in any game, not your repeated mantra of "I'm right, I'm always right, everyone else must be wrong".

Quote

Ever hear/read that those who worked hard to T1, that players shouldn't be in T1 from other T1 players? Yeah, they look at your stats. Then say things.

Reality check one: Tier is not a reward. It's a way of separating players by performance to improve the quality of matchmaking so that there is no massive skill gap between participants in any given match.

Reality check two: The previous PSR system was by design skewed to eventually push everyone into T1 given they played a sufficient number of matches. PGI admitted that when it was implemented and they admitted it again not long ago.
The difference was that good players would make their way to it quickly
Grinding your way to that point over several years is not an achievement. King Harkinian has proven that it was possible to do it within a week or so.

Reality check three: If you were put up with and against equal players, your win/loss ratio would trend towards 1.0 . Your performance before the reset ( https://leaderboard....rch?u=GuardDogg ) and after it ( https://mwomercs.com...&user=GuardDogg ) shows that you've been hopelessly outmatched when in T1 and now that you're playing with (former) T4/T5 opponents more often you're doing better. It's pretty clear that the opponents you are facing now are far more your own speed than the ones you were facing before.

Quote

Conquest: Fight first, then when 12 enemy mechs destroyed. Cap bases.
Fix: worth taking caps first while fighting defender for em.

That's not how Conquest matches play out in reality. Ignoring the caps means you canget outcapped by one or two enemy light mechs and lose the match even if you win the resulting 12v10 fight

Quote

Domination: Nascar. Not made for MWO (Or Mechs). Needs to be removed.

Again, not how the matches play out in reality.

Quote

Just that domination makes/creates nascar.

No, bud. NASCAR can happen in every single mode. Your claim that it's the mode that creates this behavior tells me you don't understand how it actually happens.
What creates NASCAR is an attempt to flank the enemy. Instead of holding their position, heavier mechs start following the maneuver - which is exactly what they should not be doing - and ultimately forcing the rest of the team to follow unless they want to get killed by the enemy team's flankers.

[GuardDogg]

ESC 907, on 18 July 2020 - 12:04 AM, said:

IMHO, Domination could simply be altered a bit. Perhaps make it more like a "King Of The Hill" gamemode? Edit: Forgot to mention that I believe something like "Capture The Flag" MIGHT be entertaining for MWO. And a possible replacement for Domination.

And the problem of Nascar could probably be solved if PGI actually released some intelligent maps. Remove their usual "central landmark" map-layout. Facilitate more chokepoints, narrow passes, progressive cover! If one looks at almost ALL of the existing maps, they have a central focal-point. Canyon has its canyons and the central peak, HPG has the tower, TMC has the central platform... How about a map that is just a ravine, like a canyon, on a giant scale? Put outcroppings of stone along the bottom for intermittent cover, and perhaps a ledge or tunnel high-up the cliff-face for a possible flanking route? Just a map that makes the teams face each other head-on!

Totally agree. Awesome post. and more maps. One with a Orion Dropship.

More gametypes: Defend dropship, before take off. Team has to get in, while attacking team tries to destroy everyone.
Fight to get into base, while apposing team defends it.

Edited by GuardDogg, 18 July 2020 - 01:25 AM.

[VixNix]

So you try to force teamwork? lol, silly dev's you CAN'T!!!

Doesn't work, 9 times out of 10 you play an assault you get left behind to die in the NASCAR.

Even if you try to lead the majority don't care, off doing their own thing.

Been said lots of times already, basing PSR on damage is causing actual scouts to be scarce, no reward...

No real reward for playing game type either.

Even posting this is a waste of time...

still no answer on the question, is it the top tier in a group or the group leader that determines tier range?

get on a team with 3 or 4 man, 90% of the time they don't call...

Edited by VixNix, 18 July 2020 - 04:05 AM.

[Lance McRaven]

My only real observation is that I was Tier 4 before this, and I am back to Tier 4. Only real difference, where before I would go up or down, on pilot skill most games, now I get an equal sign.