642 replies to this topic

[Tarl Cabot]

Lockheed_, on 02 August 2020 - 09:20 AM, said:

Thanks for the support, I might not make it or stay there though. I miss playing lights ( I play mostly assault and heavies currently) and I can't pump out enough dmg with them consistently to keep my PSR up.

So why worry about Tier, especially moving up in Tier, esp beyond Tier 3 (edit)? Or put it this way, by moving up what are your expectations, seriously?

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 02 August 2020 - 04:06 PM.

[David Sumner]

RJF Volkodav, on 16 July 2020 - 02:19 AM, said:

Proposals:
1) Put new players and everyone not played 100 matches to T4-T5 (let everyone start from the lower tier not facing anyone able to climb up to T1-T2 fast enough)
2) Match groups by highest player tier value. I.e. if a group have any tier 1 player than its considered a T1. Or calculate group's average tier and use if for MM.

This makes a "not zero sum" (declining PSR) game.
Unless all players get a "nudge" towards T3 on say a monthly basis to top up the total points.

[BTGbullseye]

RRAMIREZ, on 01 August 2020 - 10:42 PM, said:

One big difference in our profile is that you play 100% assault, and I 0%
Are you dropping solo?

Yes, I'm running exclusively my FNR-5 until my muscle memory for the game returns. I got it back for the HGauss, and nearly back for LBX. Next I'll be working on LRMs.

Edited by BTGbullseye, 02 August 2020 - 04:10 PM.

[Sawk]

hmm i'll be quite, after this short post.
seems this thread is going the right way, and i hope when you make adjustments, which i think are needed, pls start small no major stuff, i'll keep pushing the game --- my bar has to move at some point.
and i think it will work out, i like winning, i like having titles, i like helping others play this game, its a blast. i really do have at least some talent in this game. i figured we were all going to tier 5, and are history would be clean and new, so i was all in for the reset, this is not how its turned out, i have to be a monster, the true CLANNER, who only cares about himself, and and my stats.
Sawk the power of the dark side

[martian]

Paul Inouye could post some update to inform us how things are progressing.

It has been a month since the PSR reset.

[Jastreb17]

I would like to ask that the PSR formula be adjusted do give more weight to wins, or change the match score formula to make damage less important. As thing stand, I am penalized for piloting a light just because I can't put up the damage numbers of the assaults and heavies. I have had near "perfect" games as a light - scouting, putting up UAVs, capping objectives, distracting the enemy team to the point where a lance of assault and heavy mechs turns around from the fight to chase me. And at the end, what do I see? A decrease in PSR on a win, or no change if I'm lucky. In Tier 4, I have no problem getting up arrows when playing assaults, I think it is the appropriate tier for my skill level and have been enjoying games, but if I keep playing lights I will eventually grind down to T5 :-(

Edited by Jastreb17, 02 August 2020 - 10:36 PM.

[D V Devnull]

Okay... Huge multiple catch-up... Here I go!

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ERSmurf, on 02 August 2020 - 03:27 AM, said:

@D V Devnull: Considering the mention of mastered Mechs, I suspect "pexxing" refers to "specsing" / "spexing" or in more plain English skilling up new Mechs.

In my native Finnish "speksaus" is one possible (slang) word for planned technical development and "speksit" roughly equals current abilities or technical details. And Finnish has a tendency to replace "x" with "ks" in foreign words... "Taksi" vs taxi, "seksi" vs sex, etc.

RRAMIREZ, on 02 August 2020 - 04:58 AM, said:

ERSmurf was rigth.
I though pexxing was "internationnal" for farming XP, but I guess I was wrong ^^
Sorry, English is not my native language... but i promise i try my best ^^
By pexxing, I mean: buy a fresh mech with 0 skill point (eventual invest some GSP for 60% radar deprivation) and playing it without consummable.
I will play it and never invest GXP, only XP won with it for this specific chassis.
Somewhere around 80 to 93 skill point max, buy a new mechbay and repeat.

ERSmurf, on 02 August 2020 - 05:21 AM, said:

@RRamirez: Different users and slangs use different words... I have seen "exping", "expoing", "xpin(g)" and even "ekspin(g)". Non-native speakers (like myself) tend to have slightly different views on how things might look like in written form... and as I suffer from certain reading disorder, I struggle at times even though I consider myself fairly well skilled in the English language and actually study it as a major in one of the best universities in Finland.

RRAMIREZ, on 02 August 2020 - 05:25 AM, said:

Giving a second thougth to it, I really think I was mistaken because it "sounds" english but it's just french RPG jargon.
Sorry for that guys.

ERSmurf, on 02 August 2020 - 05:56 AM, said:

@RRamirez: No need to apologize, the situation is clarified.

@D V Devnull: Just be happy that you do not need to "decipher" Finnish gaming jargon...

ERSmurf & RRAMIREZ, Thank You both for the enlightenment on the differences in linguistics. I rather much appreciate it.

RRAMIREZ, just as ERSmurf said, there is no reason for you to apologize here. You did nothing wrong in this situation. I was merely puzzled, and seeking to understand. If anyone should apologize here, it would be me since I'm not that great at using search engines on the internet to figure out what things could possibly mean.

ERSmurf, I am rather sure that I would have also asked you for some understanding if I had hit some kind of snag in trying to figure it out.

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martian, on 02 August 2020 - 08:28 PM, said:

Paul Inouye could post some update to inform us how things are progressing.

It has been a month since the PSR reset.

Oh... but THAT would be too much like 'Common Sense', wouldn't it?

But then, such might also have been tightening the Tonnage Balance in the MatchMaker so that it made sure any given Team was relatively well-matched against any other for Tonnage of the Mechs in play. That's something that likely could have been done without reverting back to the old "same number per weight class" system that used to horribly choke the heck out of the game.

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Jastreb17, on 02 August 2020 - 10:04 PM, said:

I would like to ask that the PSR formula be adjusted do give more weight to wins, or change the match score formula to make damage less important. As thing stand, I am penalized for piloting a light just because I can't put up the damage numbers of the assaults and heavies. I have had near "perfect" games as a light - scouting, putting up UAVs, capping objectives, distracting the enemy team to the point where a lance of assault and heavy mechs turns around from the fight to chase me. And at the end, what do I see? A decrease in PSR on a win, or no change if I'm lucky. In Tier 4, I have no problem getting up arrows when playing assaults, I think it is the appropriate tier for my skill level and have been enjoying games, but if I keep playing lights I will eventually grind down to T5 :-(

How about, instead of more weighting toward Wins and/or dropping weighting against Damage/AMS amounts, we get Paul Inouye to put buffs on ALL those other things which supporting your Team causes you to earn? You're right in that Damage/AMS should not be everything. However, I gravely differ in the opinion of nerfing things versus buffing things because of the apparent past history by PGI's Staff (and particularly of Paul Inouye, sad to say) to constantly nerf when it would have potentially been better to buff whatever was already on the downside. Plus, we need to allow for better End-Of-Match Score Averaging through buffing everything else in order to let the Match Score & PSR Systems have the ability to do their work properly. So let's quit being destructive to MWO's design, and instead be additive, alright?

---

And now, here I scram again. I'll still be lurking in the background, catching up on this thread periodically. But, there's other stuff I don't want to ignore right now.

~Mr. D. V. "translations, updates, weightings... it's a mess out there" Devnull

[Aidan Crenshaw]

martian, on 02 August 2020 - 08:28 PM, said:

Paul Inouye could post some update to inform us how things are progressing.

It has been a month since the PSR reset.

I'm sure Paul will give an update soon. Don't expect anything today, though, they have a national holiday over in canada today

[Jastreb17]

D V Devnull, on 02 August 2020 - 11:49 PM, said:

---

How about, instead of more weighting toward Wins and/or dropping weighting against Damage/AMS amounts, we get Paul Inouye to put buffs on ALL those other things which supporting your Team causes you to earn? You're right in that Damage/AMS should not be everything. However, I gravely differ in the opinion of nerfing things versus buffing things because of the apparent past history by PGI's Staff (and particularly of Paul Inouye, sad to say) to constantly nerf when it would have potentially been better to buff whatever was already on the downside. Plus, we need to allow for better End-Of-Match Score Averaging through buffing everything else in order to let the Match Score & PSR Systems have the ability to do their work properly. So let's quit being destructive to MWO's design, and instead be additive, alright?

---

Exactly how light mech performance/helping your team gets more value in the PSR calculation is not a matter of principle for me, and please forgive me for not knowing all the tortured history of MWO. Your idea of buffing the the teamwork/objective achievement is a good one

[D V Devnull]

Jastreb17, on 03 August 2020 - 11:06 PM, said:

<<<snip>>> ... and please forgive me for not knowing all the tortured history of MWO. <<<snip>>>

Don't sweat it, Jastreb17, and welcome to MWO's hazardous environment. I can see you only got into this in the last half-a-year as of when we're talking now, so I can very much understand your being unaware. If you do get the chance, please go hunt through the Forum's history of threads and posts to read up on everything that has happened. I think you'll find it rather enlightening, if not also scary and/or disgusting.

~D. V. "I'm not going to hold an axe over your head about it... Please go study anyway?" Devnull

[Horseman]

D V Devnull, on 02 August 2020 - 11:49 PM, said:

How about, instead of more weighting toward Wins and/or dropping weighting against Damage/AMS amounts, we get Paul Inouye to put buffs on ALL those other things which supporting your Team causes you to earn? You're right in that Damage/AMS should not be everything. However, I gravely differ in the opinion of nerfing things versus buffing things because of the apparent past history by PGI's Staff (and particularly of Paul Inouye, sad to say) to constantly nerf when it would have potentially been better to buff whatever was already on the downside. Plus, we need to allow for better End-Of-Match Score Averaging through buffing everything else in order to let the Match Score & PSR Systems have the ability to do their work properly. So let's quit being destructive to MWO's design, and instead be additive, alright?

Remember that the match score formula is not match rewards formula.
Just buffing part of the goals would inflate match scores globally, leading to a false impression of progression where none occurred. What is the desired goal here is a little give-and-take, to promote teamwork and efficient takedowns over meaningless damage while keeping an average performer's match score within the same effective range.
Remember that the goal is to benefit players who secure victory through more efficient means (including objectives) than just sandblasting the other side with raw damage until something breaks.

[D V Devnull]

Horseman, on 04 August 2020 - 12:20 AM, said:

Remember that the match score formula is not match rewards formula.

I already get this, unlike how you read my post. I'm NOT one of those idiots who feels like they were entitled to their Old System PSR standing. Heck, I'm comfortable with my 'Tier 3' Status right now, even though it's been coming up, as much as I hate to admit it.

Horseman, on 04 August 2020 - 12:20 AM, said:

Just buffing part of the goals would inflate match scores globally, leading to a false impression of progression where none occurred. What is the desired goal here is a little give-and-take, to promote teamwork and efficient takedowns over meaningless damage while keeping an average performer's match score within the same effective range.
Remember that the goal is to benefit players who secure victory through more efficient means (including objectives) than just sandblasting the other side with raw damage until something breaks.

We're relatively on the same page here, but I've been monitoring some of the knock-on effects myself. For example, such as the "Supply Cache Progression" module which happens to be inextricably bound to Match Score, and would be ruined by any nerfing. It should NOT end up affected in the final result, or it should otherwise come out lightly on the positive side. If we go around outrightly nerfing everyone's Match Score through the nerfing of Damage/AMS from the rounds that they play, then getting Supply Caches slows down rather hard. This would become detrimental to the player experience (particularly newbies, which we also need to AVOID hurting), and cause people to give up and leave because their own progression would be slowed down or stopped by lack of methods of income. (Yes, there are people who have ended up depending on some of the Weapons and/or other things that pop out of those Supply Caches, contrary to popular belief.) I'm trying to AVOID any damage to this through usage of Buffs, as well as AVOID damage to the remaining player population, because nerfing does NOT achieve the needed objective (perhaps plural of "objectives"? ... there may be many more) in the long run.

So yes, we definitely want to promote Teamwork, Objective Completion, Support Operations, and even Efficient Takedowns over that Meaningless Spreaded Damage and/or AMS Defense... But again, we NEED to do it through buffing Match Score earnings from everything other than Damage/AMS, and actively AVOID the past history of "nerf-zilla" that utterly & ridiculously plagues MWO even now. By giving a light slate of Buffs to all the other things, we then smooth out the ridiculous curve that was inflated by Damage/AMS, and therefore level & balance everything out WITHOUT causing much trouble with any other attached systems. Heck, usage of Buffs in this manner has the positive effect of putting a stopper on the seemingly-unintended & overly-impactful Match Scores that cause extreme rises and/or falls where they should never have happened to some players. I would not be at all surprised if that also fixes the worries of "people's PSRs swinging so wildly that there's a lack of people in Tiers 2 & 4" which have been going around for a while.

~Mr. D. V. "We must watch out for unwanted side effects, lest calamity befall. Thus, Buffs are the better option." Devnull

[OmgKllL]

I've just made out some matches after my 1 month pause from the game (solo qp queue too long=unplayable game).
After some time of "adjustment" it seems the new psr system is working quite fine, but the stomps rate it's still rather big (50% of the played matches), the same goes for weird tonnage matches.
Queues are still too long but they are way better than 1 month ago.
I believe the situation will improve a little further with time...but I fear it's the entire system behind the MM that should be reworked.

[Hiten Bongz]

OmgKllL, on 04 August 2020 - 01:28 PM, said:

the stomps rate it's still rather big (50% of the played matches), the same goes for weird tonnage matches.
Queues are still too long but they are way better than 1 month ago.

Let's also not forget that spawns are still broken too!

[OneTeamPlayer]

Supply caches are so useless as to not be worth considering in any discussion of match score.

They give next to nothing approaching value, even to the newest of players.

Decals are nice, but not really necessary and most players never take the time to put any on.

The rest of the items in the boxes are literally junk.

[General Solo]

Hiten Bongz, on 04 August 2020 - 07:29 PM, said:

Let's also not forget that spawns are still broken too!

Spawns are fine honourable Premade group has place of honour in Alpha lance, not so casual solo pleb.
Alpha Lance is for our Pre made Lords.

Working as intended.

If Alpha Lance too much honour disbanded your group seems like fair trade.

[martian]

OneTeamPlayer, on 05 August 2020 - 04:27 AM, said:

Supply caches are so useless as to not be worth considering in any discussion of match score.

They give next to nothing approaching value, even to the newest of players.

Decals are nice, but not really necessary and most players never take the time to put any on.

The rest of the items in the boxes are literally junk.

The content of Supply Caches is nothing but junk of no value. Some useless small lasers, SRM-2, Flamer, LRM-5 or jump jets. Some useless decals and worthless cockpit junk.

C-bills? One good game gives me more than ten Supply Caches together.

Russ, seriously?

Supply Caches are so worthless that I do not even bother with opening them. Currently I am sitting on a pile of about 100 un-opened supply caches.

[General Solo]

Supply Caches need a open all button NAOW!

Take a long time to open 100 plus supply caches.

More grinding, too busy opening caches instead of discussing important stuff like de merging, or giving soloes 1000% cooldown on missiles to even the playing field. Simple stuff.

[Spare Knight]

I don't even care what's in the supply cache. Just auto-dump it into my inventory.

[BTGbullseye]

Lockheed_, on 05 August 2020 - 10:33 AM, said:

I got some good stuff in caches, and yes of course I use decals. Actually I spend a good amount of time in the mechlab to make my mechs looks extra fancy. stuff like SRM 2s I usually sell once every 4-5 months for some extra C-bills to buy new mechs/engines etc.

Pretty much how I've operated with them. I've gotten over half my decals from them, and about 1/4 of my armory.