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Psr Tier Metrics - Round 1


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#461 BTGbullseye

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Posted 01 August 2020 - 06:46 PM

View PostGARION26, on 31 July 2020 - 10:42 AM, said:

The folks with the best Win Loss ratios are people with very high match scores, the people with very high match scores all tend to have a win loss ratio over 2

The guy currently in 131st place on Jarl's has the exact same W/L ratio as me, 1.33. Win/loss has just as little to do with player skill as pure match score ranking.

View PostRRAMIREZ, on 31 July 2020 - 11:40 AM, said:

And it's not like I was a sooooooo good player that I rulez any T3 player ^^

You're right around the same skill level as Tarl Cabot and myself... Mid 70%, which is the upper end of Tier 2. (top 4500 or so players) That does in fact put you in the "rulez any T3 player" category if you continue to play normally.

The biggest discrepancies between your scores and mine:
1. I get WAY more wins.
2. I survive to the end of a battle a lot less often.
3. I get a lot more kills.

And yet we have a very close average match score. (15 higher for me on the average, 1.5 higher for adjusted)

#462 Tarl Cabot

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Posted 01 August 2020 - 07:27 PM

ROFL... there is nothing to look down on. PGI should consider renaming the Tiers 1-5 to something more militaristic/battletechish - Elite, Veteran, Regular, Green, Basics.

And you are being measured against the players in your current drop on whether your bar moves up or down...even IF PGI had kept a static PSR threshold for each player, and dependent if they were on the winning or losing team instead of going to dynamic zero sum, it would be different than the original setup. Below is the original PSR setup.. now you can see how you were able to move up to Tier 2, you got there because of PGI LOW thresholds and positive upward push, since losing provided lesser downward trend with their low PSR values.


Quote


Original PSR setup...
Player LOSES:
Match Score: 0-100 goes down in PSR by -2
Match Score: 101-250 goes down in PSR by -1
Match Score: 251-400 does not move.
Match Score: 401+ goes up in PSR by +1

Player WINS:
Match Score: 0-100 does not move.
Match Score: 101-250 goes up in PSR by +1
Match Score: 251-400 goes up in PSR by +3
Match Score: 401+ goes up in PSR by +5


My own option if PGI had gone with a static PSR value thresholds. Notice anything? Based simply on your average MS, you would still be moving down. You might have a few bright points but a static PSR thresholds with static values would those players are only not able to generate enough MS during a drop to move down, regardless of HOW MUCH better he may have performed vs even his own teammates, much less his opponents.

Player LOSES:
Match Score: 0-75 goes down by -7
Match Score: 76-150 goes down in PSR by -5
Match Score: 151-225 goes down in PSR by -3
Match Score: 226-325 goes down in PSR by -1
Match Score: 326-450 does not go down
Match Score: 451+ goes up in PSR by +1

Player WINS:
Match Score: 0-75 goes down by -1
Match Score: 76-150 does not move.
Match Score: 151-225 goes up in PSR by +1
Match Score: 226-325 goes up in PSR by +3
Match Score: 326-450 goes up in PSR by +5
Match Score: 451+ goes up in PSR by +7

And did you see PGI other options? They provided options for you vs your teammates or you vs everyone on the drop. And if you were the low man on the winning side, you might have broken even/did not move but on a loss and being the low man you would have dropped like a stone. a majority of the time.

https://mwomercs.com...edback-round-1/

As for myself, would I really enjoy myself dropping with and against players whose overall avg MS are 50 pts or lesser than mine, so I can be the king of the hill? Hell no. Nor would I want to be in drops where I am the low man on the totem pole most of the time, at least in the Soup queue. FP is an entirely different game, or was when there was a population, more active units, etc until it literally melted away due to PGI indifferences and failure to flesh it out.

Defending a broken system? iie, I am definitely not defending PGI dropping new accounts into Tier 3, that is total batshiit. But notice I am still in Tier 3, as is my alt, though it might not be in 15-20 more games (total 150 games), on the cusp of hitting Tier 2, but then I expect to be kicked back down to Tier 3, which is what I expect to happen sooner than later. And take into consideration my avg MS of 285 MS compared to yours of 192 MS for the month of July....that MIGHT not seem like a huge difference but it is, just as Nightbird's or J-Man 400+ MS for July is when compared to my own. And mine is approximately 80% mediums, whereas J-man and Nightbirds are primarily in lights...while your drops are primarily in heavies....sorta of eye opening or shocking, isn't it?

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 01 August 2020 - 07:32 PM.


#463 martian

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Posted 01 August 2020 - 09:10 PM

View PostSawk, on 01 August 2020 - 02:31 PM, said:

hmm we march on. anyway i think some old players from beta like me, are being left out to dry,

Oh, please! Beta ended years ago.

View PostSawk, on 01 August 2020 - 02:31 PM, said:

reason is are long history, not sure fully, since my down fall to TIER 4, i have step up my game, i really hate it when i play with really high ranked folks, and they say but your TIER 4, your a loser, so i am truly trying to fix that, like i did months after it started the first time.

How exactly have you stepped up your game?

View PostSawk, on 01 August 2020 - 02:31 PM, said:

so i am hoping the new month will give a small reset, and i can dig my way out, but my bar is really stuck it has not moved in 3 or 4 weeks.so i'll show my stats i made yesterday.

8 matchs i am sure some one can look it up at PGI and yes i'm tier 4 now.
average match score 248
total damage 2706
kills 8
assist 47
cash earned millions
i have been repeating this day after day, i been playing the same mech, but the matchs have gotten better so i will go lite and i think i can push toward 300 + match score, when is my bar going to start moving

View PostSawk, on 01 August 2020 - 02:58 PM, said:

oh i guess i should say also, that i had 4 up matchs, 2 equal matchs, and 2 down to rounds out my 8 matchs

As Tarl Cabot mentioned above, your PSR move can have values from approximately +24 to -24.

So if you had four +10 games, two 0 games and two -20 games, the pure end result is 0 → zero PSR gain, zero PSR loss → static PSR bar.

And honestly, 1 kill and 330 damage on average per game is not that great. Not bad, but it could be better, especially If you wish to move up to higher Tiers.

View PostSawk, on 01 August 2020 - 06:23 PM, said:

hmm your defending a broken system, and not seeing that you also have broken the a way to move up in Tier group, you hurt us old farts that support the new guys

Broken? Maybe.

Personally I would say that even though this new system is not perfect, at least it is better than the old PSR system (that was actually just an experience bar) or the Elo system before it.

View PostSawk, on 01 August 2020 - 06:23 PM, said:

And you have designed a way for folks like your SELF to look down on folks.

A few players offered various new PSR systems, PGI picked one, modified it and implemented it as Russ Bullock and Paul Inouye saw fit.

View PostSawk, on 01 August 2020 - 06:23 PM, said:

i know your type, you hate folks that do not think like you, i think i know you.

We do not hate you.

View PostSawk, on 01 August 2020 - 06:23 PM, said:

do not have a fast enough putter

Hard to say.

View PostSawk, on 01 August 2020 - 06:23 PM, said:

will not do what you will ask

This forum has some very good players and their advices are worth listening.

View PostSawk, on 01 August 2020 - 06:23 PM, said:

i bet your really good pilot, that plays with really good team, and that is great

I am not especially good pilot, I am in no team and yet I have moved to Tier 1. And if I can, so can you.

View PostSawk, on 01 August 2020 - 06:23 PM, said:

so you tell me how to get to tier 2 again, give the stats i need, i want it in 100 words. and please be detailed,

View PostSawk, on 01 August 2020 - 06:23 PM, said:

i hope to hear from you soon, mister elite, i can not call your a SIR any more i,m retire platoon sargent, and look for your wisdom.

I think that the best thing that you can do is to start a new thread in this section:
https://mwomercs.com...ew-player-help/

State your problem in the first post. List some 'Mechs that you own. Tell us what 'Mechs you use most often and how armed they are.

#464 OneTeamPlayer

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Posted 01 August 2020 - 09:37 PM

PGI didn't pick the PSR system, we voted on a set of options.

Though it's interesting to see how we're already at distancing from the outcome of "camel by committee" which is the result of non-mathemeticians voting on a choice of algorithms.

The community was misled on their options, for sure (the current iteration was sold as a Win/Loss variant by a developer himself as well as by the group pushing propaganda to ensure their friends version would get chosen) but at the end of the day as messy as it was we did have somewhat of a hand in it.

#465 RRAMIREZ

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Posted 01 August 2020 - 10:42 PM

View PostBTGbullseye, on 01 August 2020 - 06:46 PM, said:

You're right around the same skill level as Tarl Cabot and myself... Mid 70%, which is the upper end of Tier 2. (top 4500 or so players) That does in fact put you in the "rulez any T3 player" category if you continue to play normally.

I guess you're looking at Jarl's?
If you look closely, you'll see that my stats in the lat 3 month is really higher than before.
It correspond to PSR reset announcement.
I started playing mastered, "meta" (not really meta, but "classical efficients" build).
That what you call "if you continu to play normally"


But before that, pexxing mechs was my motivation in MWO, stats were "average"
I have more fun playing this way. I go back to my "old" normally ^^
I didn't find what I was searching for in higher Tier post reset.
So I've started pexxing mechs again (and i'll stick to that)
So I think that's fair to say that T3 will have a chance against "new" (old) RRamirez^^


One big difference in our profile is that you play 100% assault, and I 0%
Are you dropping solo?

#466 D V Devnull

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Posted 02 August 2020 - 02:41 AM

View PostRRAMIREZ, on 01 August 2020 - 10:42 PM, said:

So I've started pexxing mechs again (and i'll stick to that)

Hi there... Your post is rather hard to understand due to one of the words you chose to use. (Sorry, but I'm very serious here. This is NOT a troll!) Could you PLEASE define the word "pexxing" for those of us that apparently don't understand your own linguistic nuances? :(

~D. V. "encountering an issue with the word 'pexxing', and how it affects reading comprehension" Devnull

#467 ERSmurf

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Posted 02 August 2020 - 03:27 AM

@D V Devnull: Considering the mention of mastered Mechs, I suspect "pexxing" refers to "specsing" / "spexing" or in more plain English skilling up new Mechs.

In my native Finnish "speksaus" is one possible (slang) word for planned technical development and "speksit" roughly equals current abilities or technical details. And Finnish has a tendency to replace "x" with "ks" in foreign words... "Taksi" vs taxi, "seksi" vs sex, etc.

Edited by ERSmurf, 02 August 2020 - 03:38 AM.


#468 RRAMIREZ

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Posted 02 August 2020 - 04:58 AM

View PostD V Devnull, on 02 August 2020 - 02:41 AM, said:

Hi there... Your post is rather hard to understand due to one of the words you chose to use. (Sorry, but I'm very serious here. This is NOT a troll!) Could you PLEASE define the word "pexxing" for those of us that apparently don't understand your own linguistic nuances? Posted Image

~D. V. "encountering an issue with the word 'pexxing', and how it affects reading comprehension" Devnull

ERSmurf was rigth.
I though pexxing was "internationnal" for farming XP, but I guess I was wrong ^^
Sorry, English is not my native language... but i promise i try my best ^^
By pexxing, I mean: buy a fresh mech with 0 skill point (eventual invest some GSP for 60% radar deprivation) and playing it without consummable.
I will play it and never invest GXP, only XP won with it for this specific chassis.
Somewhere around 80 to 93 skill point max, buy a new mechbay and repeat.

Edited by RRAMIREZ, 02 August 2020 - 05:03 AM.


#469 Slothasaurus

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Posted 02 August 2020 - 05:08 AM

View PostRRAMIREZ, on 31 July 2020 - 12:58 AM, said:

I've managed to go down from T2 to T3, and I'm really happy with that Posted Image
Matches more looking alike what I call "quick play".
A bit sad there's only one viable queue left, mixing everything (competitive, farming, pexxing, weird builds (LRM IV4 oO), try hard groups, OneMechChallenge groups) but at least, I've found a place to have fun... again.

Hope everyone finds what they're look for, and keep the game alive.


I do miss a place like that. Anything goes. Play whatever no groups stompy blow stuff up sandbox. After all these changes(some good, some bad) I find at the end of the day I am having less fun in the game.

#470 KRZZPFFF

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Posted 02 August 2020 - 05:08 AM

Hi Guys,
after the PSR reset I started moving up the bar rather effortless until I amlost reached Tier 2 last Sunday often doing 500+ DMG and 2-3 kills per game. But since one week I am going only backwards and am really struggeling. I feel like I am only matched against Tier 1 feeling really helpless.
[color=#222222]Did anything change since then in the system again? It is really a difference like day and night :-([/color]

#471 ERSmurf

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Posted 02 August 2020 - 05:21 AM

@RRamirez: Different users and slangs use different words... I have seen "exping", "expoing", "xpin(g)" and even "ekspin(g)". Non-native speakers (like myself) tend to have slightly different views on how things might look like in written form... and as I suffer from certain reading disorder, I struggle at times even though I consider myself fairly well skilled in the English language and actually study it as a major in one of the best universities in Finland.

#472 RRAMIREZ

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Posted 02 August 2020 - 05:25 AM

View PostERSmurf, on 02 August 2020 - 05:21 AM, said:

@RRamirez: Different users and slangs use different words... I have seen "exping", "expoing", "xpin(g)" and even "ekspin(g)". Non-native speakers (like myself) tend to have slightly different views on how things might look like in written form... and as I suffer from certain reading disorder, I struggle at times even though I consider myself fairly well skilled in the English language and actually study it as a major in one of the best universities in Finland.

Giving a second thougth to it, I really think I was mistaken because it "sounds" english but it's just french RPG jargon.
Sorry for that guys.

Edited by RRAMIREZ, 02 August 2020 - 05:25 AM.


#473 ERSmurf

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Posted 02 August 2020 - 05:56 AM

@RRamirez: No need to apologize, the situation is clarified. :)

@D V Devnull: Just be happy that you do not need to "decipher" Finnish gaming jargon... :D

#474 RRAMIREZ

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Posted 02 August 2020 - 05:57 AM

View PostKRZZPFFF, on 02 August 2020 - 05:08 AM, said:

But since one week
...
Did anything change since then in the system again? It is really a difference like day and night :-(

The Match maker valve system was changed back and forth one or two week ago, but I'm not sure that's what you are witnessing.
T1 population being "limited" (I haven't seen an updated version of the graph), you will have much more match against T1 (and groups) even if you're in T2, meaning that the shift between T3 and T2 is maybe higher than expected?
Just my though, no data to backup this hypothesis.

Edited by RRAMIREZ, 02 August 2020 - 06:11 AM.


#475 Lockheed_

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Posted 02 August 2020 - 07:51 AM

View PostKRZZPFFF, on 02 August 2020 - 05:08 AM, said:

Hi Guys,
after the PSR reset I started moving up the bar rather effortless until I amlost reached Tier 2 last Sunday often doing 500+ DMG and 2-3 kills per game. But since one week I am going only backwards and am really struggeling. I feel like I am only matched against Tier 1 feeling really helpless.
Did anything change since then in the system again? It is really a difference like day and night :-(


For me it's the opposite, I have been climbing into T2 and then fell off a bit after trying some lights etc and struggeled a bit to get going again, since last sunday I am climbing at a decent pace. If this keeps up I'm going straight for T1.

#476 martian

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Posted 02 August 2020 - 08:35 AM

View PostKRZZPFFF, on 02 August 2020 - 05:08 AM, said:

Did anything change since then in the system again? It is really a difference like day and night :-(

Well, Paul Inouye talked about possible "settings adjustment" a month ago. But I guess that you are experiencing just a temporary losing streak.

View PostLockheed_, on 02 August 2020 - 07:51 AM, said:

For me it's the opposite, I have been climbing into T2 and then fell off a bit after trying some lights etc and struggeled a bit to get going again, since last sunday I am climbing at a decent pace. If this keeps up I'm going straight for T1.

You can make it. Posted Image

#477 Lockheed_

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Posted 02 August 2020 - 09:20 AM

View Postmartian, on 02 August 2020 - 08:35 AM, said:

Well, Paul Inouye talked about possible "settings adjustment" a month ago. But I guess that you are experiencing just a temporary losing streak.


You can make it. Posted Image


Thanks for the support, I might not make it or stay there though. I miss playing lights ( I play mostly assault and heavies currently) and I can't pump out enough dmg with them consistently to keep my PSR up.

#478 Z Paradox

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Posted 02 August 2020 - 10:16 AM

View PostLockheed_, on 02 August 2020 - 09:20 AM, said:


Thanks for the support, I might not make it or stay there though. I miss playing lights ( I play mostly assault and heavies currently) and I can't pump out enough dmg with them consistently to keep my PSR up.


strange, I played my narc rvn today to finish event and I didn't lose any rank %, and I didn't do much dmg (150-300) in my games...

#479 Tarl Cabot

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Posted 02 August 2020 - 02:56 PM

View PostLockheed_, on 02 August 2020 - 09:20 AM, said:


Thanks for the support, I might not make it or stay there though. I miss playing lights ( I play mostly assault and heavies currently) and I can't pump out enough dmg with them consistently to keep my PSR up.


So why worry about Tier, especially moving up in Tier, esp beyond Tier 3 (edit)? Or put it this way, by moving up what are your expectations, seriously?

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 02 August 2020 - 04:06 PM.


#480 David Sumner

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Posted 02 August 2020 - 03:46 PM

View PostRJF Volkodav, on 16 July 2020 - 02:19 AM, said:

Proposals:
1) Put new players and everyone not played 100 matches to T4-T5 (let everyone start from the lower tier not facing anyone able to climb up to T1-T2 fast enough)
2) Match groups by highest player tier value. I.e. if a group have any tier 1 player than its considered a T1. Or calculate group's average tier and use if for MM.


This makes a "not zero sum" (declining PSR) game.
Unless all players get a "nudge" towards T3 on say a monthly basis to top up the total points.





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