142 replies to this topic

[Nesutizale]

BlaizerP, on 26 August 2020 - 12:59 PM, said:

All you have to do is sort the leaderboard by WLR to see the impact of groups. Numbers like that were simply not possible in old solo queue.

True there are people with bigger numbers but how do you know they allways play in group?
Also some of the changes have surely to do with the reset of PSR.

On the other hand, looking through the last 5 or so seasons I haven't seen more then 20 people archiveing double digit WLR.
Frankly concidering the number of players to that...its more like a drop on a hot stone then a gamechanger...well at least for the higher populated tiers I guess.

All of that would hardly be a problem if we just had higher player numbers.

[MTier Slayed Up]

Kiran Yagami, on 26 August 2020 - 08:19 AM, said:

A bad group stacks the match just as much as a 1% group does. Only the team that's guaranteed to lose is the team with the group. Either way, the group determines the match outcome. That sucks.

This.

A notoriously bad 4 man can just throw the game into the wind. Likewise, a godlike 4 man group can win almost single handed.

I understand group Q was dead and this is what we get now, but you could have just kept it 8v8 in group Q and would have been fine. Make solo q actually solo q

[Willard Phule]

mynameis T R A S H, on 26 August 2020 - 02:35 PM, said:

This.

A notoriously bad 4 man can just throw the game into the wind. Likewise, a godlike 4 man group can win almost single handed.

I understand group Q was dead and this is what we get now, but you could have just kept it 8v8 in group Q and would have been fine. Make solo q actually solo q

By that logic, a full 12 man could be just as pathetic. QP isn't the "solo queue." It needs full 12 man premades just like FP.

[GARION26]

EDIT - i pulled a table of WLR here on the leaderboards over time to try and compare but it turns into a mess when you post it into the forum. To see what I'm saying below - just log in, go to leaderboards sort by WLR and then look at current season, then season 45, 35, and 25 (or any others you choose to look at)
------------------------------below won't make sense without looking at the data yourself ------------------------
Here's the top 15 on WLR for the current season, seasons 45, 35, and 25 (table cut as formatting didn't survive cut and paste)

It doesn't go back earlier then season 18 otherwise I'd have pulled season 15 and 5.

Win loss ratio's of the top 15 on the leaderboards are _lower_ now after groups added to solo Q then they were in previous seasons before the switch.

Also in past seasons the very top of the boards had much larger sample sizes - so they weren't flukes -where as now a larger percentage of the top 15 is people with less then 20 games.

Edited by GARION26, 27 August 2020 - 12:14 PM.

[MTier Slayed Up]

Willard Phule, on 27 August 2020 - 10:39 AM, said:

By that logic, a full 12 man could be just as pathetic. QP isn't the "solo queue." It needs full 12 man premades just like FP.

Uh, well yeah actually. A 12 man consisting of potatoes is going to be a 12 man of potatoes. Duh? Not sure why you would confirm my logic but thanks.

God no, QP doesn't need full 12 mans. That's completely inane. QP WAS solo que for the longest of times. No one wanted to group up anymore in group que, so we're stuck with this. Where have you been these past few months?

[crazytimes]

mynameis T R A S H, on 26 August 2020 - 02:35 PM, said:

I understand group Q was dead and this is what we get now, but you could have just kept it 8v8 in group Q and would have been fine. Make solo q actually solo q

What I would have preferred is a group queue that solos could opt in- and a solo only queue. I'm happy to play with groups in general, but when there's a 99% group wrecking shop, or a <20% group in assault LRMs on Solaris, having the option of playing solo until they're out of the queues would be nice.

That said, the fact I could drop with the same group in the match 7 from 8 matches, even waiting a few minutes to try and let them drop, implies there are barely enough people to sustain 1 soup queue. There are definitely not enough for two different queue types outside of NA peak maybe.

[Vellron2005]

Bigbacon, on 16 July 2020 - 05:52 AM, said:

I like this game, been playing for years now but recombining the queues has absolutely killed the MM and the game is so lopsided now it isn't fun.

Soon as the other side has a group its game over almost always unless they are some kind of troll squad.

you need to either limit groups to 2 people OR limit group tonnage so that they can't all go in assaults and destroy the MMs chance at a decent game.

not that you care, because this game is dead to you.

Here are some simple concepts that you need to accept:

1) Match maker is a myth. It never worked. It was more of a guideline than a rule. There is not enough players left for it to work.
2) If the GQ and SQ were not joined, the game would be ever deader and with less players, because people like to group up. If anything, the game has a lower wait time to find a match.
3) Limiting to 2 player groups was something I personally suggested and was laughed at by most of the forum community. I saw this coming almost 2 years ago. You're welcome.
4) There is no further work or dev hours going into this game. PGI is keeping the servers running for now, but don't expect it to last. Personally, i fully expect MW5 DLC, than if that sells well, Clan DLC; then MWO2 announcement. So don't fret. Enjoy what you can.

Edited by Vellron2005, 28 August 2020 - 02:59 AM.

[Grumpy Old Man]

Well, I just took a look at Jarls, and it does look like PGI benefitted from the change. At least the player numbers now are higher than they have been for a few months, and that despite it being summer (and possibly partially because of Corona).

So from their point of view, it worked perfectly fine.

I myself have not played since May, but if I am bored enough in the future, I might see what the game looks like now when a lot of people have apparently moved out of Tier 3. Who knows, it may actually be playable again.

[Knight Captain Morgan]

mynameis T R A S H, on 27 August 2020 - 05:11 PM, said:

Uh, well yeah actually. A 12 man consisting of potatoes is going to be a 12 man of potatoes. Duh? Not sure why you would confirm my logic but thanks.

God no, QP doesn't need full 12 mans. That's completely inane. QP WAS solo que for the longest of times. No one wanted to group up anymore in group que, so we're stuck with this. Where have you been these past few months?

Correction: no one who wanted to group wanted to face other groups so they whined and moaned until they were allowed to farm solos

[GARION26]

Knight Captain Morgan, on 28 August 2020 - 05:22 AM, said:

Correction: no one who wanted to group wanted to face other groups so they whined and moaned until they were allowed to farm solos

I think it's a lot harder in a low population game to get a 12 man group together then someplace between 2-4 friends to drop together. Even for the competitive units getting a chance to practice as a four man lance more regularly then they can get a 12 person group drop is probably attractive.

I'm a tier 5 potato who really likes being able to drop in a 2 man team with my tier 5 son and sometimes my old school one time competitive buddy who got back into game after years out when groups in QP happened. If we dropped into group Q as a 2 man we'd have pulled down the other ten randoms we got assigned to (who would potentially be facing a 12 man team of high tier players.)

[Knight Captain Morgan]

GARION26, on 28 August 2020 - 06:07 AM, said:

I think it's a lot harder in a low population game to get a 12 man group together then someplace between 2-4 friends to drop together. Even for the competitive units getting a chance to practice as a four man lance more regularly then they can get a 12 person group drop is probably attractive.

I'm a tier 5 potato who really likes being able to drop in a 2 man team with my tier 5 son and sometimes my old school one time competitive buddy who got back into game after years out when groups in QP happened. If we dropped into group Q as a 2 man we'd have pulled down the other ten randoms we got assigned to (who would potentially be facing a 12 man team of high tier players.)

Granted this is just a hunch but I’m guessing you and your son (and by extension all the other “I just wanted to drop with my friend” types) never bothered with any of the SEVEN 2 v 2 Solaris brackets. Because if you did that, you’d be facing other 2 man groups instead of farming solos.

Edit I did try the 1v1 brackets but as a sniper the maps were way to small, lemme duel on the regular maps.

Edited by Knight Captain Morgan, 28 August 2020 - 06:23 AM.

[Willard Phule]

mynameis T R A S H, on 27 August 2020 - 05:11 PM, said:

Uh, well yeah actually. A 12 man consisting of potatoes is going to be a 12 man of potatoes. Duh? Not sure why you would confirm my logic but thanks.

God no, QP doesn't need full 12 mans. That's completely inane. QP WAS solo que for the longest of times. No one wanted to group up anymore in group que, so we're stuck with this. Where have you been these past few months?

Was, meaning past tense. That means it's not going back to the way it was, the same as FP. QP has become "end game content" the way FP once was before it got screwed up.

You can't change what is. The guys that used to play in premade groups in FP exclusively are now harvesting T3s in QP. If you want to avoid being harvested, join a group or go to FP.

[GARION26]

Knight Captain Morgan, on 28 August 2020 - 06:20 AM, said:

Granted this is just a hunch but I’m guessing you and your son (and by extension all the other “I just wanted to drop with my friend” types) never bothered with any of the SEVEN 2 v 2 Solaris brackets. Because if you did that, you’d be facing other 2 man groups instead of farming solos.

Edit I did try the 1v1 brackets but as a sniper the maps were way to small, lemme duel on the regular maps.

Hey if you think as a Tier 5 I'm "farming" anyone you haven't watched us play! We are fairly terrible and frankly worse when we are together (but it's more fun). He's a wonderful kid but he is in elementary school and really doesn't have much FPS experience outside of this game. For either of us our KD is well below 1 and our WL is below one. When you put us both on the same team our WL likely goes down as we're pulling down the team.

Here's my stats since I started playing- does it look like I'm harvesting the solo Q with my team based advantage?
https://leaderboard....arch?u=Garion26

I play some 1 vs 1 Solaris matches (and have played some 1 v 1 vs my son) I've lost every match I've played against anyone other then my son. We've also had the wife and daughter shoot each other up in Solaris using our accounts.
I've asked him about trying 2 vs 2 and he's not up for it as he feels Solaris in general isn't something he enjoys.

Edited by GARION26, 28 August 2020 - 07:19 AM.

[MTier Slayed Up]

Willard Phule, on 28 August 2020 - 06:52 AM, said:

Was, meaning past tense. That means it's not going back to the way it was, the same as FP. QP has become "end game content" the way FP once was before it got screwed up.

You can't change what is. The guys that used to play in premade groups in FP exclusively are now harvesting T3s in QP. If you want to avoid being harvested, join a group or go to FP.

Uh..What? QP is not end game content. FP I guess is? I mean, even when it was community warfare I never really considered it "end game" content. It's a MMO PvP, not much for "end game" content is there? Just...Lol.

So I understand Was is past tense, however, does the change make it okay or welcomed? I think it's fair to say it's rather divided but most people that play on a higher level will agree that the change is obnoxious and silly. Wasn't needed.

As for the regulars from FP to QP, I rarely if ever see them. If anything, it's the Solaris junkies that have been cropping up more often like Merata Kell.

While I can't change anything, I certainly can voice just how dumb this change has been. Been rather vocal about it since it was first implemented.

And no, I should not feel pressured to join a group to avoid a stomp fest. I like the solo experience. Don't know why this is a hard concept to grasp.

[OneTeamPlayer]

The claim that groups made up a significant proportion of the game is ridiculous given that group queues have murdered two separate game modes and are closing on the third while solo queue at no point in MWO history has ever struggled to populate matches.

The claim that MM "didn't work" pre-merge is also ridiculous at its face because of the aforementioned fact that solo queue was never unpopulated, made matches swiftly and reasonably fairly even in extreme off hours, and despite its flaws was accepted enough to be consistently logged into by a variety of players of different playstyles regularly.

Much like with other changes that rely on "popular vote" (backroom dealing) one notes that quite a few of the largest advocates for the current system are nowhere to be found on the forums and have not logged in to play in weeks to months.

That said, I will admit that the change has made a convergence of a...particular playstyle i am not fond of significantly easier to avoid so there's pros in addition to the many cons.

[Vyx]

The only thing "killing this game" is PGI's lack of effort.

A single fundamental change like allowing 'mixed-tech' or enabling 'random spawn locations' would breathe new life into this game.

Hell, even mapping another key to change LBX ammo from pellets to slugs would be fresh.

But, so far as I can tell, they stopped caring long ago.

Basically, if the effort cannot be monetized, it isn't done.

Edited by Vyx, 29 August 2020 - 07:21 AM.

[Willard Phule]

mynameis T R A S H, on 28 August 2020 - 11:49 AM, said:

Uh..What? QP is not end game content. FP I guess is? I mean, even when it was community warfare I never really considered it "end game" content. It's a MMO PvP, not much for "end game" content is there? Just...Lol.

So I understand Was is past tense, however, does the change make it okay or welcomed? I think it's fair to say it's rather divided but most people that play on a higher level will agree that the change is obnoxious and silly. Wasn't needed.

As for the regulars from FP to QP, I rarely if ever see them. If anything, it's the Solaris junkies that have been cropping up more often like Merata Kell.

While I can't change anything, I certainly can voice just how dumb this change has been. Been rather vocal about it since it was first implemented.

And no, I should not feel pressured to join a group to avoid a stomp fest. I like the solo experience. Don't know why this is a hard concept to grasp.

Because it's not your decision in the first place? Nobody liked Paul's changes to FP and demanded it be rolled back only to be told it can't happen. Same thing here. Paul made the decision to let those that still spend real money on the game farm those who don't. It simply is. Complaining about it won't change anything.

The QP you remembered is gone. Never coming back. Accept it.

But, there are places you can go where you don't get rolled by a group now. Faction Play is nothing but a bunch of solos queuing up now. The groups are in QP. Granted, it's still the broken design Paul gave us, but at least there aren't groups there harvesting solos anymore.

[Bobdolemite]

Willard Phule, on 29 August 2020 - 10:24 AM, said:

Paul made the decision to let those that still spend real money on the game farm those who don't. It simply is. Complaining about it won't change anything.

I dont understand why you are conflating groups with players who pay in this game? Ive been a solo player and been around since the Spider was a new mech and predator vision was a thing... And I have spent and continue to spend money on this game. What does being in a group have to do with paying $$$$?

Most of the "Group" players I see on the forums are the ones saying they have everything already and dont need to pay for anything at all OR alternately saying they wont give a dime until "X" happens.

In regards to money who do you think likely contributes more, the sub 10% of group players or the 90% of solo players?

It was an interesting idea to bolster the playerbase, but I am not sure its worth it considering it ruined tonnage balance, spawns, and in some cases game balance.

[R Valentine]

Willard Phule, on 29 August 2020 - 10:24 AM, said:

Because it's not your decision in the first place? Nobody liked Paul's changes to FP and demanded it be rolled back only to be told it can't happen. Same thing here. Paul made the decision to let those that still spend real money on the game farm those who don't. It simply is. Complaining about it won't change anything.

The QP you remembered is gone. Never coming back. Accept it.

But, there are places you can go where you don't get rolled by a group now. Faction Play is nothing but a bunch of solos queuing up now. The groups are in QP. Granted, it's still the broken design Paul gave us, but at least there aren't groups there harvesting solos anymore.

No. If PGI really wants to kill solo queue, that's fine. I have other ways to spend my time. If they want me to stay here, they're gonna have to make it worth while. People's patience with this merged queue BS is running out.

[General Solo]

Funny how the queue wait times are not getting shorter
Instead getting longer
As predicted by a few

Definition of madness
Doing the same thing over and over, when the result is the same, a bad result.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 29 August 2020 - 10:02 PM.