96 replies to this topic

[VonBruinwald]

Hawker Siddeley, on 21 July 2020 - 03:47 PM, said:

What metric would you prefer? How long people can sit on a cap? Missiles shot down? How high they can pee?

W:L is the only true measure as a team contributor. If the sum of your actions helps the team win it'll be apparent regardless of match score.

Edited by VonBruinwald, 21 July 2020 - 03:51 PM.

[jss78]

Just some random thoughts. In very rough ORDER from most to least important.

1. Motivation/competitiveness.(By far #1. A lot of people have all the wits, neurology etc. to be top tier, but simply don't care enough to put their mind into the game and the hours into practice. I suspect the competitively minded people will never truly understand these folks -- and vice versa.)

2. Knowledge of the game (VERY deep in MW. How to build your 'mech, where to target enemy 'mechs, etc.)

3. Willingness to learn (You can split this in two. There's a general case of people who always blame others when things go poorly; these people will never excel at anything. In MW you further get the specific case of lore purists who have an idea about how 'mechs "should be" that isn't compatible with the game mechanics.)

4. Willingness to work with others. (Communication, communication, communication...)

5. Genetics/fitness. (Not hugely important in this game, and least so with twitch reflexes. More so with information processing and multitasking, for example in maintaining situational awareness while controlling your 'mech, fighting an enemy, etc.)

Just an arbitrary grouping and probably overlapping.

[thievingmagpi]

I can't remember ever in this history of this game ever going "Wow, that dude is really good at X"

Where X is anything other than "fighting other mechs"

Because that's what matters.

Edited by thievingmagpi, 21 July 2020 - 03:56 PM.

[My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ]

thievingmagpi, on 21 July 2020 - 03:56 PM, said:

I can't remember ever in this history of this game ever going "Wow, that dude is really good at X"

I've said that in response to how good Popup Camper is at kiting.

[Kubernetes]

thievingmagpi, on 21 July 2020 - 03:56 PM, said:

I can't remember ever in this history of this game ever going "Wow, that dude is really good at X"

Where X is anything other than "fighting other mechs"

Because that's what matters.

I dunno, I swear I've said at least once or twice, "Wow, that dude is really good at running out of bounds at the end of a match."

[UnofficialOperator]

Delusional players who think they are better than everyone else exist in every game out there. Why you guys even bother replying?

Edit: In what universe has it become that pressing W & S is a lauded skill? /facepalm

Edited by UnofficialOperator, 21 July 2020 - 09:27 PM.

[visionGT4]

2 types of 1%'s imo

The drop in anything including direstars/quadgoosekdk/lurmjenner/etc and carry hard 1%'s. And the 1%'s who can aim and only drop in OpAsp's/gapeEagles(aim not required)/IV4's/ISmpulse boats and know how to farm kills.

Regardless of the the above observation. If the OP and his ilk cant understand the simple fact that closing with and engaging reds is the *only* thing that matters... you people need to stick to the training grounds.

Edited by visionGT4, 22 July 2020 - 01:35 AM.

[OneTeamPlayer]

The best players are the ones who left ages ago, after the golden ages.

[Nesutizale]

I knew I should have gone with Kerensky. He warned us about the decline of match quality and the never fixed bugs that will come...until the only thing that is left is Nascar and LRMs....never ending LRMs....

[VonBruinwald]

OneTeamPlayer, on 22 July 2020 - 05:31 AM, said:

The best players are the ones who left ages ago, after the golden ages.

We said that about the last vestiges of the star league.

Unfortunately they came back as dirty clanners.

[pomomojo]

VonBruinwald, on 21 July 2020 - 03:51 PM, said:

W:L is the only true measure as a team contributor. If the sum of your actions helps the team win it'll be apparent regardless of match score.

This completely dismisses the contribution of PUGS. I choose to solo exclusively. Tier 1 players are definitely more competent, though the outcome of matches is usually determined by the skill level and cohesiveness of the premade players to provide leadership and/or overwhelming force. Without any given direction, the PUG is reliant on playing a meta oriented build (e.g. mass wubs, dual HG, ATM, etc.) or they become canon fodder. Regardless of my teammates, I can still provide some sting.

[VonBruinwald]

pomomojo, on 22 July 2020 - 01:59 PM, said:

This completely dismisses the contribution of PUGS. I choose to solo exclusively. Tier 1 players are definitely more competent, though the outcome of matches is usually determined by the skill level and cohesiveness of the premade players to provide leadership and/or overwhelming force. Without any given direction, the PUG is reliant on playing a meta oriented build (e.g. mass wubs, dual HG, ATM, etc.) or they become canon fodder. Regardless of my teammates, I can still provide some sting.

Group players have a massive effect on the outcome of a match. Make no mistake, teamwork is a force multiplier.

A coordinated 4-man effectively turns a 12v12 into 16v12 (I'm sketching numbers but you see the effect). As a result the PUG needs to diverge further from the average in order to have a noticeable effect on the outcome. But don't be afraid to keep on Pugging, the more games under your belt the less pronounced the effect of groups on your stats becomes.

It's the 4-mans who should worry, unless they're going to stick as a 4-man they'll end up crying hard when they drop solo.

[cougurt]

thievingmagpi, on 21 July 2020 - 03:56 PM, said:

I can't remember ever in this history of this game ever going "Wow, that dude is really good at X"

Where X is anything other than "fighting other mechs"

Because that's what matters.

i'm sure i've heard people say that someone is really good at calling...but they're usually wrong.

[General Solo]

VonBruinwald, on 22 July 2020 - 02:49 PM, said:

Group players have a massive effect on the outcome of a match. Make no mistake, teamwork is a force multiplier.

May I suggest that groups that have a massive effect on the outcome of a match are already kick a$$ as solo pilots and by grouping that kick a$$ness is stacked with some measure of multiplier powa boastage due to synergy.

Just saying that grouping does not automatically endow its members with the special power of team work and force multiplication.

In my experience if you look at how groups on the other side of the spectrum play its mostly as individuals even though they are premade with little synergy.

So what makes a good player is maybe individual skills plus the skill to synergise with what ever team you happen to be on, increasing chances of your teams success at winning games.

I thinks

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 23 July 2020 - 01:20 AM.

[OneTeamPlayer]

OZHomerOZ, on 23 July 2020 - 01:16 AM, said:

May I suggest that groups that have a massive effect on the outcome of a match are already kick a$$ as solo pilots and by grouping that kick a$$ness is stacked with some measure of multiplier powa boastage due to synergy.

Just saying that grouping does not automatically endow its members with the special power of team work and force multiplication.

In my experience if you look at how groups on the other side of the spectrum play its mostly as individuals even though they are premade with little synergy.

So what makes a good player is maybe individual skills plus the skill to synergise with what ever team you happen to be on, increasing chances of your teams success at winning games.

I thinks

Group players have a massive effect on the match even when they are a bad group, which is a part of the problem with balancing matches.

A team with a great group versus a team with a bad group is already at a massive disadvantage due to by definition having 4 players not balanced against the enemy team, but moreso by having the critical "group slot" essentially wasted providing a near double malus.

The other effect groups have is killing queues as is seen in every other queue groups (FW, pre-soup Group Queue, ancient era mixed queue) have touched.

[GARION26]

Which is an argument for making PSR a bigger matchmaker factor then group or not group.
A group of 4 Tier 5's pulls down the team as much as a group of 4 tier 1's pulls up the team.

[MischiefSC]

In every PvP game this conversation comes up. Not just PC games but chess and anything competitive. It's actually pretty funny.

Everyone is playing for fun. Winning is more fun than losing. However investment of personal effort has a direct increase in personal risk. The harder you try and invest the more personal winning or losing is. Even in PvE games this has an effect just not as much as there's no person who is winning because of your loss.

The assumption that everyone who plays competitively uses macros and adjusted UI settings isn't just false but bordering on a lie. It's an attempt to take a literal handful of most extreme examples and generalize them across everyone who does better than the person making the comparison. The world championships for example were played on PGI provided equipment.

The assumption that people who are capable of playing at a competitive level are different than people 'playing for fun' is also a lie. Literally a lie. Nobody is or was playing MWO for any reason other than fun. The use of this term 'play for fun' is a disingenuous attempt to draw a moral and ethical line between some arbitrary level of skill and everyone else. Amazingly the person making this statement always happens to be just on the 'plays for fun' side of this line. It's essentially a way of saying 'only people who put in the same amount of effort as me are doing it right and being moral and ethical. Everyone who puts in more effort than me is bad and doing it to hurt me and people less skilled than me'. It is complete ******** and has no place in a conversation between adults on any topic.

No matter who you are there are people who put in more effort and understand the game better than you. There is no moral or ethical component to that and trying to ascribe some sort of bullying or moral or ethical component to that is most likely a reflection of your own moral failings than anything else. They're just people playing the game and having fun just like everyone else. They have a larger comfort zone for investing effort into the game. That's it.

This goes double for implying that there's some moral facet to playing inherently inferior builds or playing inherently inferior strategies and tactics. Within the rules and design of the game, what wins is what wins. The only moral component to this at all in any way is that when you take a bad mech and/or play poorly and/or make poor choices you're shafting teammates. To a degree that's okay because we all do it and we all have to make room for each other to have fun doing whatever we feel like doing at the time but let me repeat this to make it clear: The only moral aspect of how you play in this game is how you're affecting your teammates. NOT taking a good mech and doing your best to win hurts them and diminishes their odds of winning. Taking bad mechs and making poor choices is okay to a degree for the sake of variety but taking good mechs and playing well and helping your team win is literally in the T&Cs of the game: you're committing to doing your best to win every match you play.

Play the game and have fun. Everyone else is doing the same thing. Quit trying to rationalize you not being as good at the game as other people as them doing something 'wrong' and implying thus that you're doing it 'right'. They're better at the game than you. That is what it is. If that offends you that's a personal problem. GIT GUD, put in a comparable amount of effort or learn to be okay with how much effort you have to spend on this game. For bonus adult points applaud them for their successes and try to learn to do better at the same effort investment you've arrived at. Quit trying to justify failure or mistakes as being someone elses fault. You can lose and still have done your best. You can do your absolute best and still be able to do improve and do better. This all applies to literally everything in life.

[OneTeamPlayer]

GIT GUD so that you too can purchase and play one of three mechs out of hundreds and join in the rotational extravaganza!

Dump that mic, it's extra weight you're not going to need where we're going.

The light has shone upon us, and now the path is clear.

[R Valentine]

OneTeamPlayer, on 23 July 2020 - 10:58 AM, said:

GIT GUD so that you too can purchase and play one of three mechs out of hundreds and join in the rotational extravaganza!

Dump that mic, it's extra weight you're not going to need where we're going.

The light has shone upon us, and now the path is clear.

The fact that "three mechs out of hundreds" are optimal is a game design flaw. Take that up with PGI. Until then, if you want to win, you leverage the tools given to you as they are. Not as you would like them to be.

[OneTeamPlayer]

Kiran Yagami, on 23 July 2020 - 11:00 AM, said:

The fact that "three mechs out of hundreds" are optimal is a game design flaw. Take that up with PGI. Until then, if you want to win, you leverage the tools given to you as they are. Not as you would like them to be.

I was agreeing with him, there is only one god and his name is meta. Fun is objective so do it the right way or not at all. Break off that D key, cause you're not going to need to turn right, W, A, and M1 are all this game needs.

We're thinking man's shooting our way to the most efficient matches possible.

Pretty soon we'll reach a level where we don't even have to input, we can just simulate the most efficient matches and have the computer print out results immediately after we hit search on a quickplay match.

All hail elite community play, optimizing games to be the very best in exactly the same way in each possible instance so we don't have to waste time on any action other than shooting.

We optimized the hell out of Faction Warfare, we optimized the hell out of group queue, and now coming to a previously solo queue near you OPTIMIZATIONS!

At least we have the beach event to shore us up while player learn to enjoy the game correctly. Once these degenerates with their mics and turning right (gag), and builds that aren't carbon copied from a website are pushed out we can have the truest of spiral bliss.

May the age be swift in its approach.