95 replies to this topic

[Belorion]

I am not a big Clanner fan, but I must admit there is something about the Stone Rhino/Behemoth that I like.

[Charles Sennet]

VonBruinwald, on 28 October 2020 - 05:48 AM, said:

The reason you don't see so many clan assaults in FP is down to drop deck tonnage.

That's certainly one of the reasons. The other reason being they are not as good as their IS counterparts. If Clans had a mech as good as the Anni, you would see a lot more Clan 100-tonners in FP.

[VonBruinwald]

Charles Sennet, on 28 October 2020 - 10:56 AM, said:

That's certainly one of the reasons. The other reason being they are not as good as their IS counterparts. If Clans had a mech as good as the Anni, you would see a lot more Clan 100-tonners in FP.

The best way to pre-test this theory is to up the clan drop deck tonnage to IS levels and see what happens.

Need people to theory-craft clan drop-decks with existing mechs if they had IS tonnage.

Spoiler

If people start bringing more kodi/whales then all is good.
If they just up their lights to mediums/heavies then you may be on to something.

[Charles Sennet]

thievingmagpi, on 27 October 2020 - 06:12 PM, said:

Ice Ferret has some workable builds could probably easily be improved with some minor xml tweaks.

If the Ice Ferret was an IS mech, it would have Phoenix-Hawk-like-massive-armor-quirks to the arms which is where most of the weapons are (PHX also has JJ so there's that). The bottom line is the IFR is wasted tonnage in a drop deck compared to other options at +/- 5 tons.

The EXE is massively gimped with locked masc which makes it a waste of tonnage in any FP drop deck. Can't tell you the last time I saw one in QP either. Good reasons for that.

The basic point is there are weights on the Clan side that are terra-bad and we could use better options there.

[dario03]

Charles Sennet, on 28 October 2020 - 11:06 AM, said:

If the Ice Ferret was an IS mech, it would have Phoenix-Hawk-like-massive-armor-quirks to the arms which is where most of the weapons are (PHX also has JJ so there's that). The bottom line is the IFR is wasted tonnage in a drop deck compared to other options at +/- 5 tons.

The EXE is massively gimped with locked masc which makes it a waste of tonnage in any FP drop deck. Can't tell you the last time I saw one in QP either. Good reasons for that.

The basic point is there are weights on the Clan side that are terra-bad and we could use better options there.

I've run the EXE in FP and seen others run it. Also one of my recent QP games had 3 in it.

[Y E O N N E]

Raptor.

I will accept nothing else.

[Stonefalcon]

IS Omnis would be the next logical step. GL trying to find a way to balance them though with their abysmal use of XL engines.

[Y E O N N E]

Stonefalcon, on 28 October 2020 - 04:42 PM, said:

IS Omnis would be the next logical step. GL trying to find a way to balance them though with their abysmal use of XL engines.

Raptor is a 25-ton light and is going to use XL anyway. It has DHS, it has Endo. It has JJs if you want them, it has pods with reasonable numbers of every type of hardpoint. It can boat 11 lasers.

Firestarter is a 45 ton Omni-equivalent to a Phoenixhawk. It won't be amazing, but it won't be unusably bad.

Blackjack is a 50 ton gunbag with a focused CT. Give it firepower quirks comparable to the BJ-1DC and some armor quirks that all the BJs should get anyway, and it's going to be pretty potent even at 64.8 kph. I already run my Arrow at 64.8 kph with a build similar to the BJ2-O and enjoy it.

Men Shen is a 55 tonner, those already run XL half the time as it is. This one has a Crab-like profile and is another one that will do the face-forward thing well. Handy, since it has lots of lasers. MASC and ECM help.

Blackhawk-KU is a 60 tonner stuck with an XL, but since it's a Nova it can spread damage reasonably well if you face forward. It has an incredible amount of firepower and will be totally worth it, especially in FP, unless PGI introduces new ghost heat rules to knee-cap it.

Hauptman has a standard engine in it and will be about as good a 'Mech as any 95 ton IS Assault, though no Endo hurts it a little bit (not much, though, since it's more slot-limited with such a small engine).

Don't really care much for any of the other IS Omnis. Templar is a Battlemaster and those can pull off XL okay, I guess. Avatar and Sunder are gonna need Urbie-style quirks scaled up for big 'Mechs to help with their XLs. Owens and Strider are stuck with SHS and not worth bothering with on any level. There is also the IS version of the Kit Fox (Arctic Fox).

Edited by Miss Greene, 28 October 2020 - 05:20 PM.

[VonBruinwald]

Miss Greene, on 28 October 2020 - 05:16 PM, said:

Don't really care much for any of the other IS Omnis. Templar is a Battlemaster and those can pull off XL okay, I guess. Avatar and Sunder are gonna need Urbie-style quirks scaled up for big 'Mechs to help with their XLs. Owens and Strider are stuck with SHS and not worth bothering with on any level. There is also the IS version of the Kit Fox (Arctic Fox).

Blackjack, Centurion and Firestarter Omnis would be a good start as they could re-purpose the existing models for minimum effort.

Following that I'd like to see the Men Shen and Sha Yu but realistically we're better off getting the Owens in place of the shark.

[The6thMessenger]

Stonefalcon, on 28 October 2020 - 04:42 PM, said:

IS Omnis would be the next logical step. GL trying to find a way to balance them though with their abysmal use of XL engines.

I'm honestly not that confident with IS Omnis, not unless the XL Engine disparity is fixed.

You can quirk the **** out of them medium IS omnimechs all day, but all it will to is have something like the Blackjack functionally like a rifleman or a jagermech at that point.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 28 October 2020 - 07:03 PM.

[ccrider]

Anvil. An IS version of the LBK for FP and has jumpjets, ecmand lots of med pulse. Game.

Edited by ccrider, 28 October 2020 - 07:14 PM.

[ambosen]

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing the Hussar. It's one of the only mechs I can think of that is quite literally built for hit and run attacks, with a single large laser on a high central mount over the cockpit and a top speed of over 150 kilometers standard, without a MASC or similar. It's obviously balanced by being a rather delicate light mech, that works best in concert with larger battlemechs drawing attention.

Next up would probably be the Emperor just because we know for a good chunk of time in the inner sphere it was a *really* common design most of the great houses, the com guard, the word of Blake, and a number of mercenary units had kept going and that it's production was restarted during the Clan invasion specifically for Comstar. Even the Clans had a few original ones of the SLDF era they used during the invasion.

It's just plain *weird* it's not as far as I know ever shown up in any of the computer games game, given that.

[Y E O N N E]

VonBruinwald, on 28 October 2020 - 06:23 PM, said:

Blackjack, Centurion and Firestarter Omnis would be a good start as they could re-purpose the existing models for minimum effort.

Following that I'd like to see the Men Shen and Sha Yu but realistically we're better off getting the Owens in place of the shark.

The Owens has locked SHS, no Endo, no Ferro. It is crap and should be ignored.

The Sha Yu is a BattleMech, though I have no opinion on whether or not I want it.

I don't want them to just take the BJ as it is and tweak the XML on it to make it a 50 tonner Omni, the Omni is beefier and more brick-ish. Looks like a walking bunker bristling with guns.

[50 50]

I wouldn't mind seeing some new mechs added at this point, it has been a long time and there are probably a few new players in the game that have never had the chance at ordering a pre-release and getting those other goodies.

But probably more for the following reasons:
- It's been a long time.
- I do really like the new designs over the originals.
- Great opportunity to get some more of the unseen mechs redone and tell Harmony gold to FRO.

I don't really have any particular preference for a new mech.
Probably a few I would like to see just to see how they get redesigned such as the Crusader, Valkyrie, Wasp/Stinger.
Phoenix Hawk IIC would interest me actually.
However, if the purpose was to really do something different and add something that could provide a bit of a different experience piloting mechs then I'd have to go with some quad designs and there are a few features that could make them stand out in MWO.
-Given the arms are used as legs.... no arm mounted weaponry, bump the armour values to match the legs, have some AMS or ECM slots there (if there are variants for ECM.) but otherwise leave the critical slots. This would make them the first IS mechs capable of having double heatsinks 'in the legs' to take advantage of the water bonus.
-Base the rear armour hitboxes between the legs and underneath so back shots are a bit tricky with leg movement covering those areas. (Everyone would shoot legs anyway)
-Give them all a turret torso like the Urbie with 360' rotation.
-Having all the weapons up on a turret means they are all high mounts.
-We have some interesting quirk options with hill climb, hit stability and speed reduction that could be looked at.
-Mobility wise the accel, decel, turn rate and reverse speeds could all be something that make the mechs quite different to pilot.

We may not be able to add anything that has hard point options different to anything else we have in the game already, but we could certainly add something that pilots differently

Speaking of quirks.
Be nice to see some of the options from the skill tree get added as quirks on some mechs.

[martian]

Miss Greene, on 28 October 2020 - 05:16 PM, said:

Raptor is a 25-ton light and is going to use XL anyway. It has DHS, it has Endo. It has JJs if you want them, it has pods with reasonable numbers of every type of hardpoint. It can boat 11 lasers.

Yes, I think that the Raptor would make many players happy.

Miss Greene, on 28 October 2020 - 05:16 PM, said:

Firestarter is a 45 ton Omni-equivalent to a Phoenixhawk. It won't be amazing, but it won't be unusably bad.

Honestly, many people would consider this 'Mech to be pretty bad. Check how much fixed equipment this 'Mech carries: a pair of fixed Flamers, fixed double heat sinks and fixed jump jets that can not be removed. Some people dislike such fixed equipment on 'Mechs such as the Shadow Cat and the Dragonfly.

Miss Greene, on 28 October 2020 - 05:16 PM, said:

Blackjack is a 50 ton gunbag with a focused CT. Give it firepower quirks comparable to the BJ-1DC and some armor quirks that all the BJs should get anyway, and it's going to be pretty potent even at 64.8 kph. I already run my Arrow at 64.8 kph with a build similar to the BJ2-O and enjoy it.

The problem is that you can never know what quirks would PGI assign to the 'Mech, if any.

Miss Greene, on 28 October 2020 - 05:16 PM, said:

Men Shen is a 55 tonner, those already run XL half the time as it is. This one has a Crab-like profile and is another one that will do the face-forward thing well. Handy, since it has lots of lasers. MASC and ECM help.

I would not call it Crab-like profile, but King Crab-like profile. Check the massive front of the 'Mech:

Miss Greene, on 28 October 2020 - 05:16 PM, said:

Blackhawk-KU is a 60 tonner stuck with an XL, but since it's a Nova it can spread damage reasonably well if you face forward. It has an incredible amount of firepower and will be totally worth it, especially in FP, unless PGI introduces new ghost heat rules to knee-cap it.

I don't know how many enemy Novas I have crippled when I targeted their fragile side torsos. Since they had Clan XL engines, they did not die. However, Black Hawk-KU would die instantly in this situation because its fixed IS XL engine.

Plus, note that since it is a 60-tonner, it would move as a heavy 'Mech, not as a medium 'Mech as the ten tons lighter Clan Nova.

Miss Greene, on 28 October 2020 - 05:16 PM, said:

Hauptman has a standard engine in it and will be about as good a 'Mech as any 95 ton IS Assault, though no Endo hurts it a little bit (not much, though, since it's more slot-limited with such a small engine).

Yes, some people would probably like it.

Miss Greene, on 28 October 2020 - 05:16 PM, said:

Don't really care much for any of the other IS Omnis. Templar is a Battlemaster and those can pull off XL okay, I guess. Avatar and Sunder are gonna need Urbie-style quirks scaled up for big 'Mechs to help with their XLs. Owens and Strider are stuck with SHS and not worth bothering with on any level. There is also the IS version of the Kit Fox (Arctic Fox).

The other IS Omnis are mixed bag: Some are slightly better, some are significantly worse.

[VonBruinwald]

Miss Greene, on 28 October 2020 - 08:26 PM, said:

I don't want them to just take the BJ [Firestarter and Centurion] as it is and tweak the XML on it to make it a 50 tonner Omni, the Omni is beefier and more brick-ish. Looks like a walking bunker bristling with guns.

I agree, but we have to look at this from a PGI perspective. Are they willing to invest resources in creating a new mech, my 8-ball says no. Are the community willing to put money upfront with the promise of IS Omnis...

Re-purposing the existing models is the easiest/cheapest way to get IS Omnis. There's no reason the art department can't get to work at later date updating the models if the Omnis generate enough sales.

[Bowelhacker]

Why the **** can't we just get the Ostsol?! RIDDLE ME THAT, PGI!

[Hawk819]

finish the unseen's: Wasp, Stinger, Crusader, Valkyrie, Longbow, Stone Rhino, Phoenix Hawk IIC, and last, but definitely not least: Fire Moth aka Dasher!

[Y E O N N E]

martian, on 29 October 2020 - 12:35 AM, said:

Honestly, many people would consider this 'Mech to be pretty bad. Check how much fixed equipment this 'Mech carries: a pair of fixed Flamers, fixed double heat sinks and fixed jump jets that can not be removed. Some people dislike such fixed equipment on 'Mechs such as the Shadow Cat and the Dragonfly.

Fair points. It's a puzzle to work around. I have a zillion BattleMechs that are much more optimal at a given task, the entire fun of an Omni is that the limitations in MWO make it harder to figure out. Granted, I don't really care if they add the Firestarter Omni or not. The only IS Omni I absolutely want is the Raptor, but if I can only have one Medium I'd rather have the BJ-O or Men Shen.

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The problem is that you can never know what quirks would PGI assign to the 'Mech, if any.

I mean, the Arrow doesn't have much as it is. I'm not asking for S-tier, just good enough to not feel like I'm kicking myself in the groin if I run it in QP.

Quote

I would not call it Crab-like profile, but King Crab-like profile. Check the massive front of the 'Mech:

My statement stems from the fact that the torso is narrow but deep. Like the BSW, CRB, or even a CPLT. Basically, it's not humanoid at all. What else should I call it? Avian?

I would not recommend making any assumption of hitboxes based on the OG line-art for this 'Mech. It's much too crude.

Quote

I don't know how many enemy Novas I have crippled when I targeted their fragile side torsos. Since they had Clan XL engines, they did not die. However, Black Hawk-KU would die instantly in this situation because its fixed IS XL engine.

Plus, note that since it is a 60-tonner, it would move as a heavy 'Mech, not as a medium 'Mech as the ten tons lighter Clan Nova.

You don't know how many inattentive Novas you've side-crippled, more like. Hence the front-forward. A well-played Nova is quite durable, they were very good brawl options back when MRBC was still a thing on account of the laser spam and the fact that it can spread damage well.

And I counter your claim of it being sluggish because it's a 60 tonner with it also being an IS 'Mech and therefore likely to be more agile than you expect.

It's worth pointing out that Chris is not in charge anymore, so speculation is even less certain than usual.

[Squiggy McPew]

A few clan urbies would be nice.