146 replies to this topic

[Alreech]

Amro One, on 04 November 2020 - 09:51 AM, said:

It's called hit boxes . . . . This is why some mech chasis are better then others.

And you don't have to use Mechs with bad hit boxes, because you can run the same weapon loadout with other mechs due the unrestriced Mech Lab.
PGI tried to fix that with Armor & Structure Quirks (that can buffed by Skill nodes) and it didn't work, or does it?

Edited by Alreech, 04 November 2020 - 01:35 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

Alreech, on 04 November 2020 - 09:45 AM, said:

You can't fix a problem caused by the unrestriced mechlab by ignoring the cause and just giving some perks / buffs / quirks. In the best case it didn't work, in the worst case you create new balancing problems.

I agree. Some people think that the MWO mechlab is the best implementation of MechWarrior, and I agree. It is also a balancing nightmare that I think has little place in online PVP where balance must take priority. And the sad part is PGI actively destroying balance; Rescale, Engine Desync, Skill Tree, Clan, Clan-Battlemechs.

Honestly, It was really okay when I got here in 16', but that was short lived when they introduced Kodiak. Nobody complained with the Direwolf ran 4x UAC10, it was the Kodiak. And in their intellectually-disabled (because I can't say the R-Word) tendencies, they nerfed the UAC10 first instead of the kodiak.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 04 November 2020 - 03:45 PM.

[Alilua]

I have a feeling it will be something like the players want balance, content and changes but that costs money so we can't have that.

[Akillius]

NASCAR is BAD gameplay STOP IT, on 03 November 2020 - 08:30 PM, said:

People have very different memories here about what has happened in the past.

edit: oops wrong login. - Kamikaze Viking

Yes your right its the same game and some of us remember it different, just like how we play it differently.

The old Modules System had many players complaining frequently about the hi-cost of modules.
And how unfair that was to new players and how they couldn't possibly compete, or even stay interested, etc.
Also I clearly recall the better modules cost 4 million and 6 million CBills each! Which doesn't matter by itself for solo QP. However the guys I played with all wanted to maximize modules for a CW drop deck which meant a cost of 40 million to +100 million CBills depending on who was talking and their choices of mech, modules, and if they could do simple math... Personally I seem to recall spending between 40-50 million cbills just for all my CW drop deck modules.

And so that's why I recall Russ's Renege in Dec 2016 on full CBill refund which he announced earlier in 2016 for modules. When the skill tree got added many players were already halfway out the door, the new clumsy & communist "skill" system was just the door hitting them as they left.

Of course that's just my memories and interpretation of historical events but it'll be interesting to see how other long time players recall that time period too.

Edited by Akillius, 04 November 2020 - 08:47 PM.

[Bowelhacker]

Communist...?

[NAMEUNKOWN]

the things wrong with mwo is not the mechs,nothing ,in quick play,not balance. new players might need a bit more introduction in to mwo. none of the things to do with mwo as it is now is the problem.
the problem. is faction play. nothing of what was suggested years ago is implemented . faction play needs some sort of economy.it must matter to attack a planet, [ having your units name attaced to a planet for bragging right means zero]and defend it. mw 4 mercs had a small scale economy. that would be a start.
it needs better maps. some sort of story line. when an attacking unit wins on a certain map, players must not kicked back to faction play start menu, but automaticly be loaded onto the nexct map. to carry on the fight
.there is loads that can be done here. most players I know, from mw4 days and from here want better faction play. and all of them left because they did not get what was promised, riiiiight there in the beginning of mwo. pgi wants to make money, if they do what was suggested years ago they will. I know about 150 guys all US citezens that will come back and spent money.

there is a lot that needs to hashed out in faction play.that i dont want to type here. but if they fix faction play they will make money, tons of it
if they dont fix it, mwo will be dead the nexct time the license issue comes up.

Edited by NAMEUNKOWN, 05 November 2020 - 01:06 AM.

[Zarrahtass]

I think the most important first step is to give the community a frame of what you have in mind for the future of MWO.
Are we talking about prolonging its life or are you planning to bring it back on track?

I like that you want to do it with the community, and it is clear, that you need to steer the discussion, otherwise you will be flooded with feedback that you can not sort out reasonably.

So, I really want you guys to succeed as I really like this game. I certainly have quite some feedback on the content to give, but I feel like it is too early for that.

So please keep the community up to date on the HOW you want to proceed first.
From my pov this requires some kind of updated structured post with links to keep track of different topics. As pointed out, the podcasts are not the right way to do the actual work.

So for the framework: Given your company size and taking MW5 as showcase of what you can achieve in a certain time, the big questions are, what you want to deliver in the future.

To bring the game into 2021 possible major framework questions are:

Do you want to keep two engines running, mw5 and mwo? What about an integration like COD Warzone, where the BattleRoyal is a free to play part and the main game are tightly connected? Taking your nice mechs from the single player for a spin vs players sounds nice.

Is enabling community content a path to go for you? They could help you with map design, and so on. Check rogue tech for Battletech. I am pretty sure that this mod contributed to the success quite a bit. Creating easy access to modding as you do in mw5 is key here.

Help the overall franchise: Get in touch with other companies that deal with battletech universe, get the whole universe running again. I think it has the potential, there are so many books, board game, and so on.

Analyze games like WoT to see how they keep players playing the game.

Looking forward to your replies!

[Seth Kalasa]

Immersion...
We need to have something meaningful on cockpit monitors. Now it’s some glittering meaningless garbage with some “energy” flowing. What’s that? For which purpose? Just duplicate damage diagram and map there, it will create much more immersion in the game. Same for the monitor with kills. Needless to say that it just obstructs the view while delivering absolutely no useful info.
Warhorns are way too big, looks kind of stupid and too arcade... Just reduce it’s size a bit, 15-20% reduction would be nice.

[martian]

Seth Kalasa, on 05 November 2020 - 11:57 AM, said:

Immersion...
We need to have something meaningful on cockpit monitors. Now it’s some glittering meaningless garbage with some “energy” flowing. What’s that? For which purpose? Just duplicate damage diagram and map there, it will create much more immersion in the game. Same for the monitor with kills. Needless to say that it just obstructs the view while delivering absolutely no useful info.
Warhorns are way too big, looks kind of stupid and too arcade... Just reduce it’s size a bit, 15-20% reduction would be nice.

There was a time when those cockpit monitors actually displayed some meaningful info:

• the first monitor displayed the number of kills
  
• the second monitor displayed the number and the status of your 'Mech's heat sinks (instantly updating the info on destroyed heat sinks during the battle)
  
• the third monitor displayed what type and amount of ammo you have in each of your 'Mech's locations (with real time updates reflecting your ammo consumption)

But about five years ago Russ Bullock decided that there are no money in it. All cockpit monitors of all MWO 'Mechs have displayed the same nonsensical animations since then.

[Akillius]

Bowelhacker, on 04 November 2020 - 09:00 PM, said:

Communist...?

Sorry it was said by a friend years ago when he first saw the new Skill Tree system and it stuck with me since.
"Communism is defined as a system in which goods are owned in common"
Everyone has the same garbage "skills" and has no choice.

For example lets say tonight I want to run a funsy:
IS semi-missile boat say 4x 10LRM+Artemis with 3x Med Laser, 1x AMS and 10+ 2x DHS.
Even with chain-fired LRMs this build obviously runs Hot! And the chassis I've chosen shows 1.39 heat management.

Skill Tree - Firepower - 6x green missile "Skills" I want on left side leaves me no choice but to pick cooldowns.
Oh but I Must also select Velocity and Range "Skills"... except I could not give a hoot about those "skills" either.
But more importantly I do Not want cooldowns on that build, they cause a pause in firing and increase heat faster.

Some might say it doesn't matter since everyone has "chosen" the same "Skills" and everyone's running nearly the same skill trees... but sure looks like "goods are owned in common".

[General Solo]

Alreech, on 04 November 2020 - 09:45 AM, said:

PGI tried to balancing that with better quirks for "underperforming Mechs", and it didn't work, they just created overquirked Mechs like some of the Vindicators.
Giving those Mechs a higher perk cap won't work either.

One cannot balance skill gap with mechs and equipment when every one can run the same mechs and equipment.
LMFAO
Can't fix a problem if one don't get what is the problems cause, classic PGI.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 06 November 2020 - 04:22 AM.

[Seth Kalasa]

martian, on 05 November 2020 - 12:55 PM, said:

But about five years ago Russ Bullock decided that there are no money in it. All cockpit monitors of all MWO 'Mechs have displayed the same nonsensical animations since then.

I just don't get, why turn off what you described if it worked and how it's connected to money...If these images were working what's the meaning to replace them with current garbage.
Actually it's a good field for monetization: maybe someone wants **** on one monitor, bacon on the other and hypnotoad on the third. Why not? You can sell it, PGI!

[martian]

Seth Kalasa, on 06 November 2020 - 05:59 AM, said:

I just don't get, why turn off what you described if it worked and how it's connected to money...

They really worked on my favorite 'Mechs: Cataphract, JagerMech, etc.

I remember it clearly because it was a pretty useful feature..

Seth Kalasa, on 06 November 2020 - 05:59 AM, said:

If these images were working what's the meaning to replace them with current garbage.

Think about it this way: By slapping the same set of animations across every single MWO 'Mech PGI has had no longer to care if this feature (those functional cockpit monitors) works, etc.

Cost-cutting in the purest sense.

Seth Kalasa, on 06 November 2020 - 05:59 AM, said:

Actually it's a good field for monetization: maybe someone wants **** on one monitor, bacon on the other and hypnotoad on the third. Why not? You can sell it, PGI!

PGI sells three types of cockpit items already. I am not sure if they would be willing to establish the fourth type.

[MUNTAFIRE2]

Very excited to see this. I would like to highlight the fact that this comment section is used for suggestions and any suggestions for furthering the game's features are needed. Voice your opinions and what you want to see in the game.

I want ultra mechs like 120 tonners.

[Eurystheus]

Where will we find the updates?

[Tiamat of the Sea]

Better question: It's 6 PM PST Friday Nov 6th, where's the post that was promised to show up today?

Edit: Double-checking, I see that it was promised Monday at the latest. Some kind of update regarding the delay- even something like a two sentence blurb about working on it and that it will be up on Monday- is in order here.

Edited by Tiamat Cordia, 06 November 2020 - 06:06 PM.

[T e c h 4 9]

Well, I've sent Daeron some stuff directly, but I'll reiterate what I feel is most important here:

1) something new - soon. Before the end of the year ideally. Low-hanging fruit is your friend!
2) NPE - possibly the most important thing to focus on to be honest.
3) revamp the store. This includes updating mechpacks and their prices.

Those are my top 3. Focus on those right now and you'll be in good shape. Everything else needs to be recorded, discussed, and prioritized. If it's not doable, say so. If it doesn't make business sense due to development time and ROI, say so. Regular communication with us is key.

Now, what would I personally like to see outside of that?

1. revive FW. It could be the premier MWO experience if you allow the community to help decide how to move forward, as there are plenty of great ideas out there. And therein will lie the problem: separating the wheat from the chaff. I'd like to see it as NBT-esque, but that may not be possible.
2. Comp scene. If PGI could make MWO an esports-viable product (meaning the team gameplay for comp) and promote it properly, it could really be the next level for MWO. Maybe it's too niche for that, maybe not, IDK.
3. focus on making core gameplay fun. The LoreWarriors might not like it, but applying TT rules verbatim to this game WILL NOT WORK. Maybe in MW5 it could work, or in a turn-based game like HBS BT, but not in MWO.

That's my 2 cents. Discounted of course to whatever value the reader decides to place on it.

[martian]

T e c h 4 9, on 06 November 2020 - 07:41 PM, said:

Well, I've sent Daeron some stuff directly, but I'll reiterate what I feel is most important here:

1) something new - soon. Before the end of the year ideally. Low-hanging fruit is your friend!

Improving some small detail is not going to satisfy the players.

T e c h 4 9, on 06 November 2020 - 07:41 PM, said:

2) NPE - possibly the most important thing to focus on to be honest.

Sorry, but it is too late for that.

PGI had its first opportunity to get some new players in December 2019, after they completed the new MechWarrior 5: Mercenaries. I have seen no special welcome in MWO, no interest in new players here.

PGI had its second opportunity in March, April and May 2020 when numerous lockdowns forced various people to either return to MWO or to try MWO. The majority of those new players tried MWO, found out that it sucks and left.

PGI had its third opportunity in June and July 2020. Unfortunately, Russ Bullock and Paul Inouye have made those magnificent changes like feeding new players to the premade groups or sending fresh new players in unskilled Trial 'Mechs against Tier 1 players.

These new players were quickly annihilated, found out that MWO sucks and promptly left.

Any NPE is absolutely irrelevant now, simply because the number of new players coming now is negligibly small.

PGI has had their chances to attract new players and it has completely and utterly wasted them.

GGclose, my dear Russ Bullock.

T e c h 4 9, on 06 November 2020 - 07:41 PM, said:

3) revamp the store. This includes updating mechpacks and their prices.

It is too late now. I think that the greatest part of the remaing MWO playerbase are longtime veterans who own all 'Mechs that they want.

Speaking for myself, I am not going to buy some ****'Mech, no matter what cost PGI could ask.

T e c h 4 9, on 06 November 2020 - 07:41 PM, said:

Those are my top 3. Focus on those right now and you'll be in good shape. Everything else needs to be recorded, discussed, and prioritized. If it's not doable, say so. If it doesn't make business sense due to development time and ROI, say so. Regular communication with us is key.

LOL

Thank you for a good laugh.

Russ Bullock still ignores this forum as he has always done. Note that has has felt no need to even go here and tell the players that he has hired a new press spokesman.

Paul Inouye promised us the public discussion regarding the matchmaker and Tiers. Of course he has not visited the forum ever since.

T e c h 4 9, on 06 November 2020 - 07:41 PM, said:

Now, what would I personally like to see outside of that?

1. revive FW. It could be the premier MWO experience if you allow the community to help decide how to move forward, as there are plenty of great ideas out there. And therein will lie the problem: separating the wheat from the chaff. I'd like to see it as NBT-esque, but that may not be possible.

FW is beyond any reviving. It is dead for all practical purposes and it has been ignored by the majority of the playerbase since its inception. This is not going to change - PGI lacks manpower, resources and ideas what to do with it. Some small updates are not going to change this.

T e c h 4 9, on 06 November 2020 - 07:41 PM, said:

2. Comp scene. If PGI could make MWO an esports-viable product (meaning the team gameplay for comp) and promote it properly, it could really be the next level for MWO. Maybe it's too niche for that, maybe not, IDK.

Perhaps you do not understand that the majority of the MWO players are just casual players who do not want to play competitively.

Haven't you noticed that:

• Competetive/Group queue died due to the general disinterest?
  
• Faction Play regularly struggles with even finding some people willing to play it?
  
• Solaris 7 is a total wreck visited by a few people only when PGI bribes them to play a few games to get the rewards for taking a part?

Before the merging of Solo casual queue and Group queue, only the Solo Casual queue had any life in it left.




The fact that people have ignored three competetive pillars of MWO in favour of the fourth - casual - pillar should tell you something.

T e c h 4 9, on 06 November 2020 - 07:41 PM, said:

3. focus on making core gameplay fun.

No matter what amount of lipstick you put on the PGI ... sorry, pig ... you will be left with gamemodes with no meaningful objectives played on maps specifically designed to facilitate nascaring.

T e c h 4 9, on 06 November 2020 - 07:41 PM, said:

The LoreWarriors might not like it, but applying TT rules verbatim to this game WILL NOT WORK. Maybe in MW5 it could work, or in a turn-based game like HBS BT, but not in MWO.

That's my 2 cents. Discounted of course to whatever value the reader decides to place on it.

This game has 1% of BattleTech lore and rules in it. Only some rough gameplay similarity is present.

Edited by martian, 08 November 2020 - 12:47 AM.

[Alreech]

Solaris 7 is a Game mode for quick matches, with balanced sides and 1 vs 1 or 2 vs 2 duels.
It's obsolete because a match in 12 vs 12 quickplay isn't much longer than 6 - 8 minutes and you have a team to hide behind if you are damaged.

Competetive Play is obsoletet because Solo Quickplay is due his Tier system highly competetive, without the need to find a team first.

Solo Quickplay is 1+11 vs 12. Coordination and Communication are almost non existent, and the gameplay is nothing more than Team Deathmatch with Mechs. It has almost nothing to do with the mission style gameplay of the old Mechwarrior Titels.

Faction Warfare is only for big groups of expierienced players, and most of it rewards has nothing to do with the faction a player joinded. (Mechbays, GXPs, C-Bills, Cup of Pop, Gazelle Dropships, Hamster Huey, Lucky Cat,...).
If you are not in a big group coordination and communication isn't much better than in Quickplay.
Most matches aren't won by objectives, but by total anhilation of the other team, making it more or less Team Deathmatch.

Premades are bad because they can cheat with pre game coordination and better communication during the game. On the other side are premades Groups the players who recruite new players and keep them in the game by playing together.

Edited by Alreech, 07 November 2020 - 04:30 AM.

[Alreech]

martian, on 07 November 2020 - 01:43 AM, said:

This game has 1% of BattleTech lore and rules in it. Only some rough gameplay similarity is present.

Dude, MWO uses every stupid table top rule:

Each Engine has 10 heat sinks, but below a rating of 250 some are outside the engine, so a 245 Engine needs more slots than a 250.
No upper limit for weapons, it's fine to replace 6 medium lasers with 6 PPCs
Clan Ferror Fibrous & Endo Steel need only 50% of the slots compared to IS.
Clan Double Heatsinks need only 2/3 of the slots.
Clan Missles weight only 50%
Clan XL Engines can survieve a side torso destruction, IS XL engines not.
Clan have Case in each part of the Mech, IS can have only Case in the Torsi, it cost weight & slots and it is useless if you run an XL Engine.

All that stuff caused balance issues in the table top until FASA created the Battle Value system in 1997, 7 years after introducing the Clan Tech.
Also FASA never ment to create a balanced table top wargame, instead they tried to sell the Mechwarrior RPG.