484 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

pbiggz, on 28 December 2020 - 11:51 AM, said:

You thinking you have to roleplay a lance commander instead of just getting really good at clicking the bad robots is probably why you think groups are getting rolled. You literally have voice chat. "hold locks for LRMs", "I have a UAV", "Sniper here", "Brawler here", "India left torso open", those are the sorts of calls that actually win you quick play games. Arcane UI widgets that would even further confuse new players in an already notoriously new-player hostile game will NOT win you games. This isn't an RPG and it isn't a simulator, its a shooter, whether you like it or not.

TBH, the most used command wheel item is essentially a ping system (target spotted), which would be preferable to some of the battle map nonsense that exists. I would also love to see parts of the map actually have names rather than use grids. Grids are nice, but at some point they stop being useful and you start naming areas (this happened with Crayon Network during the first WC for my team).

Alreech, on 28 December 2020 - 11:48 AM, said:

Depends on the style of game you want.
Do you want a simple team deathmatch shooter without objectives like in most CoD games, PUBG or Fortnite?
If yes I agree: that kind of games don't need AI units.

But even those games have sometimes AI units like the drones / helis in CoD or the foot soldiers in Titanfall.
Also don't forget the ARMA series that combine lots of players with AI units.
If you want a game with big maps and a game mode centered about capturing control points adding AI defenders to them makes capturing less boring.
It's also a way to add non-Mech units like Tanks & VTOLs or Infantery to Mechwarrior without bothering the player to play them.

Ultimately you have to ask yourself how do they play into the game. For things like no respawn arena games these just don't make sense because utlimately the goal is to blow up the enemy team. Let's say there is respawn, again what is the goal with this? Like Scorestreaks from CoD (which imo are the worst part about CoD)? Are we playing a MOBA where we need to kill mobs to "power" up or buy things? There has to be a reason for them being there beyond immersion reasons and it can't be so lights can kill something because having an entire class practically dedicated to killing to AI in an online game is just sorta dumb.

Now I could see a Gambit-esque (which is basically a competitive PvE game mode) mode where it is essentially a race to defeat mobs of AI units to unlock the "final boss" dropship or something. But that just doesn't feel quite right as a game mode.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 28 December 2020 - 12:47 PM.

[Joe Lean]

I think these fall into the category of "features."

* There's no way a Locust should be able to hug the legs of a Phoenix Hawk, making it impossible for the Phoenix Hawk to hit it. Lights are (I think) silly... and seem very much over-"balanced" compared to more expensive mechs. Considering the speed that they tend to generate (often to the extent that they disappear then reappear as they run -- is that called "rubber banding?" -- and/or seem nearly to outrun missiles at times), AND the micro-size (some seem closer to battle armor size than actual mech size), AND the double strength armor/relatively weaker weapons in MWO, AND that a Piranha, for example can squeeze 15 weapons in... these things compound, and it's not like players get points for percentage of damage to a Mech. The treatment of light mechs is a huge contribution to making MWO at least bordering on feeling like "not Mechwarrior," in my mind. In pick-up/solo que games, assaults (the most expensive, traditionally "Holy Grail" Mechs) are often kind of useless. This just should not be. It might be fun to give more points to non-damage contributions such as scouting instead of making the "scouts" as seemingly unbalanced and frustrating to play against.

* Perhaps as an event, I'd love to have a "3025 Cue," and/or similar era-specific matches, and/or limited to stock mechs. Maybe even randomly placing players in somewhat skill-point-boosted stock mechs that players are randomly assigned to. You don't get "your" mech, you have to do what you can with an era-appropriate stock mech that the game randomly drops you with.

[DAEDALOS513]

Forgeling, on 28 December 2020 - 12:38 PM, said:

Additionally custom command wheel voice

Yep I mentioned this before.. to add some much needed variety to the event prizes.. and maybe even have premium voices costing mc.. they should have voice command 'modules' that you can earn and plug them into your command wheel.. like a warhorn you equip..

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 28 December 2020 - 01:14 PM.

[Vlad Ward]

Alreech, on 28 December 2020 - 11:32 AM, said:

And how do you get that information?
By asking anyone during the 90 second pre match phase?

Other games use Icons & UI elements for that.
A "Recon" soldier in Battlefield has a crosshair icon behind his name in a score board.
An LRM Spotter in MWO could have a TAG Icon behind his name in the score board, and his Mechs speed and range/damaged brackets listed.
This would work better than to ask all the 11 players in you team (some of them maybe even not speaking your language) about their speed & loadouts.

Hi friend. None of that works in a game with a Mechlab. Plenty of other online game communities develop high information density nomenclature to get the job done. I'm sure the MWO community will figure out how to convey a sufficient quantity of information in 90s.

[Alreech]

Vlad Ward, on 28 December 2020 - 03:35 PM, said:

Hi friend. None of that works in a game with a Mechlab.

Why not?
Mechs speed is in the mech lab, the game can grab that info from there to display it on the UI.
Firepower Stat is in the mech lab, the game can grab that info from there to display it on the UI.
ECM, TAG, BAP... is all in the mechlab, and guess what?

[Vlad Ward]

Alreech, on 28 December 2020 - 03:44 PM, said:

Why not?
Mechs speed is in the mech lab, the game can grab that info from there to display it on the UI.
Firepower Stat is in the mech lab, the game can grab that info from there to display it on the UI.
ECM, TAG, BAP... is all in the mechlab, and guess what?

Too much data, not enough information. Firepower stat doesn't tell you anything useful and listing weapon loadouts is wasteful.

[Alreech]

pbiggz, on 28 December 2020 - 11:51 AM, said:

You thinking you have to roleplay a lance commander instead of just getting really good at clicking the bad robots is probably why you think groups are getting rolled.

Lol. I did mostly played in groups in MWO and in Squads in Battlefield, and i used the Ingame tools like Squad Leader menue to give out orders.
It works, and it works so good sometime you get accused of cheating.

In fact you can use MWO Squad Leader menue to attach an "Attack" order icon on an enemy mech what moves with the mech and is an ideal victim mark for wolf pack tactics.

Quote

You literally have voice chat. "hold locks for LRMs", "I have a UAV", "Sniper here", "Brawler here", "India left torso open", those are the sorts of calls that actually win you quick play games. Arcane UI widgets that would even further confuse new players in an already notoriously new-player hostile game will NOT win you games. This isn't an RPG and it isn't a simulator, its a shooter, whether you like it or not.

And Battlefield isn't a shooter, because it has that "Arcane UI widget" ?
So Battlefield is a RPG, or simulator, because you can "role play" as Squad leader?
Using a command wheel to give out order and communicate isn't an "Arcane UI widget", it's a shooter standard since 2005.
Hell, even Fortnite, PUBG, CS and Overwatch has it now, so new players coming shouldn't confused by that if they are not out of gaming since 2004.

VOIP works if all players talk the same language.
MWO has random teams from all over the world. In Europe you have English, German, Russian, Italian, French, Spanish, Polish, Czech speakers playing it on the same time zone, in North America you have English, French and Spanish speakers.
So how good is your Spanish/French/Italian/Russian/ect ?

And even with VOIP it would be nice to have information like a mechs speed or role or special equipment like ECM or TAG displayed next to the players mech in the score board.

Also giving out orders via VOIP... isn't that just larping as squad leader, just with crude tools?
"Learn to shoot the bad robots, so you don't have to cheat with VOIP in MWO"

Edited by Alreech, 28 December 2020 - 04:51 PM.

[Alreech]

Vlad Ward, on 28 December 2020 - 04:13 PM, said:

Too much data, not enough information. Firepower stat doesn't tell you anything useful and listing weapon loadouts is wasteful.

So bring it into a usefull form.
But as i said, new UI elements like Mech speed or Icons for special equipment like ECM would be nice as second step after improving coordination.

If PGI wants more coordinated teams that coordiantion can't be done in the 60-90 seconds before the match starts and the 12 random players just meet.
Most of the coordination should be done before match making starts, and thats only possible with groups.

Edited by Alreech, 28 December 2020 - 04:46 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Alreech, on 28 December 2020 - 04:29 PM, said:

\
And Battlefield isn't a shooter, because it has that "Arcane UI widget" ?
So Battlefield is a RPG, or simulator, because you can "role play" as Squad leader?
Using a command wheel to give out order and communicate isn't an "Arcane UI widget", it's a shooter standard since 2005.
Hell, even Fortnite & PUBG has it now, so new players coming shouldn't confused by that if they are not out of gaming since 2004.

They have ping systems which are more important than the stupid battle grid system we have now, it also isn't limited to special "command" like lance and company, literally everyone can callout pings as far as I know.

Alreech, on 28 December 2020 - 04:29 PM, said:

VOIP works if all players talk the same language.
MWO has random teams from all over the world. In Europe you have English, German, Russian, Italian, French, Spanish, Polish, Czech speakers playing it on the same time zone, in North America you have English, French and Spanish speakers.
So how good is your Spanish/French/Italian/Russian/ect ?

This is true for every game......I'd say this is less of an issue for MWO because I doubt it is localized as much as other AAA titles. However it is a good point, but the battle grid system and locking into "lances" is dumb. It needs to be much easier to do things on it.

Alreech, on 28 December 2020 - 04:36 PM, said:

Most of the coordination should be done before match making starts, and thats only possible with groups.

No, most coordination happens during gameplay, not before hand. I mean detailing strats is nice and all, but most players don't even understand how to play maps (which is why they rotate away from strong positions at the start) so detailing how to play during is more important imo.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 28 December 2020 - 04:48 PM.

[Lieutenant Bonerdongs]

I'd love to see a chain-fire timing setting for weapon groups in the MechLab. For example:

8x Medium Pulse Lasers - Weapon group 1 - Timed to fire every 0.21 seconds when the keybind is held.

If enough people are using third-party programs like Fire Control to accomplish this for both playstyle and ghost-heat purposes, I think this simple addition would solve that problem while giving players more control over their mechs.

OR do away with ghost-heat. I'd be fine with that too.

[General Solo]

pbiggz, on 26 December 2020 - 02:28 PM, said:

Just poking my head in to remind everyone that punishing people for wanting to play with their friends is extremely stupid, and "causing lots of other problems to come up" is not a valid or helpful excuse for entirely banishing groups from the already fairly low population queue.

Groups too weak to play in queues made for groups need to get guid

Groups who can't understand a solo's perspective in a mixed grpoup and solo environment is stupeed

Groups who justify playing in a mixed queue so they can play with their friends while avoid queues made for groups are weak
and cowardly without a back bone

[Brauer]

Joe Lean, on 28 December 2020 - 01:10 PM, said:

I think these fall into the category of "features."

* There's no way a Locust should be able to hug the legs of a Phoenix Hawk, making it impossible for the Phoenix Hawk to hit it. Lights are (I think) silly... and seem very much over-"balanced" compared to more expensive mechs. Considering the speed that they tend to generate (often to the extent that they disappear then reappear as they run -- is that called "rubber banding?" -- and/or seem nearly to outrun missiles at times), AND the micro-size (some seem closer to battle armor size than actual mech size), AND the double strength armor/relatively weaker weapons in MWO, AND that a Piranha, for example can squeeze 15 weapons in... these things compound, and it's not like players get points for percentage of damage to a Mech. The treatment of light mechs is a huge contribution to making MWO at least bordering on feeling like "not Mechwarrior," in my mind. In pick-up/solo que games, assaults (the most expensive, traditionally "Holy Grail" Mechs) are often kind of useless. This just should not be. It might be fun to give more points to non-damage contributions such as scouting instead of making the "scouts" as seemingly unbalanced and frustrating to play against.

Any mech leg-humping a PXH preventing the PXH from shooting the mech is not a thing that happens in MWO right now. The PXH has arm weapons, just shoot em.

Re: "lights OP", a few points.

• Rubber banding is a connection/server issue and comes up with all mechs. It's most noticeable on lights because their "jumps" are the largest, but in my experience it isn't common enough to be a huge issue. Players experiencing rubber-banding also aren't getting an advantage. Yes, it is harder to hit them, but it's also harder for them to hit anything.
  
• It seems like you think the most expensive "holy grail" mechs are assaults based on your comments. They are far from useless in solo queue. They require good positioning. They can also be a bit boom/bust because they are focused fast (because they are the biggest threats). But they're capable of driving wins and putting up huge scores.
  
• Nothing in this game is as important as taking enemy mechs off the field, which means damage and kills drive wins. Fiddling with match score rewards to reward "scouting" isn't going to make a difference. Additionally, I have no problem locating the enemy in a Wolfhound, Vulcan, Assassin, Javelin, Piranha, Phoenix Hawk, or other light/pseudo-light, AND I can put up damage and kill mechs in all of those. A player who can both locate the enemy and destroy them is always going to be more important that one who can't do anything to the enemy once they locate them (at least in QP). So no amount of match score tweaking is going to make lights carrying NARC, a TAG, ECM, and a small laser useful.

Quote

* Perhaps as an event, I'd love to have a "3025 Cue," and/or similar era-specific matches, and/or limited to stock mechs. Maybe even randomly placing players in somewhat skill-point-boosted stock mechs that players are randomly assigned to. You don't get "your" mech, you have to do what you can with an era-appropriate stock mech that the game randomly drops you with.

That's only a good idea if it's a completely separate queue that people don't have to subject themselves to.

[Vlad Ward]

Alreech, on 28 December 2020 - 04:36 PM, said:

So bring it into a usefull form.
But as i said, new UI elements like Mech speed or Icons for special equipment like ECM would be nice as second step after improving coordination.

If PGI wants more coordinated teams that coordiantion can't be done in the 60-90 seconds before the match starts and the 12 random players just meet.
Most of the coordination should be done before match making starts, and thats only possible with groups.

And yet millions of people get by just fine picking roles and characters/units in short pre-match lobbies in practically every popular online game.

We already have a functional LFG system to do what you seem to want anyway.

[pbiggz]

OZHomerOZ, on 28 December 2020 - 06:37 PM, said:

Groups too weak to play in queues made for groups need to get guid

Groups who can't understand a solo's perspective in a mixed grpoup and solo environment is stupeed

Groups who justify playing in a mixed queue so they can play with their friends while avoid queues made for groups are weak
and cowardly without a back bone

You do understand the queues were merged because there werent ENOUGH players in the group queue to make it viable right? You seem to be incapable of understanding that splitting the queues literally makes the game unplayable for anyone who wants to play with even a single friend.

[Capt BoomBoom]

Add a counter that track the number of laps done in a NASCAR match.

Joke aside, we all know those maps and drop locations so well, no wonder we all revert to those shortcuts or jump the poor guys who got that unlucky starting place. Less predictable maps and game modes would make the game feel new and force us to explore and assess our surrounding, instead of reverting to our old (and boring) proven positions and itinerary where everyone always does the same moves at the beginning of the match. Here what I humbly think would provide the more weight to promote tactical awareness without requiring much in term of development:

Map variants:

• each map come in 4 mirror variants: one is a mirror on the x axis, one on the y, and one that is xy. Require no new designs nor new assets and BAM, X4 the number of maps.
  
• pepper some special terrain spawning locations on each map, just a few, on high traffic areas or where lines of fire are likely to happen and randomly put relevant feature on it when the match is loaded. Random possibilities could be smoke/oil fire, large building, a berserk active turret, a wall, nothing, a single tree, a forest, a mech wreck, etc. As a result, some shortcuts would become useless and new battle dynamics would appear.

Varied drop locations:

• more drop location and make them a little bit random, maybe some rare one could be right in the center of the map or close to enemy.
  
• delayed dropship landing: each lance are dropped at 20 sec intervals.
  
• maybe alpha lance could choose its drop location from a few choices, but if they do, they show up 1 minute late.

Slower FoF information updates, to capitalize on the previous suggestions:

• mini map available only after 1 minutes in game.
  
• map update mechs position every 5 seconds.

And for fun and changes:
Random secondary objectives that doesn’t affect the victory conditions (for extra Cbill maybe?):

• destroy a terrain feature or a capture point, thus adding more weight to the others
  
• a convoy is heading to the tunnel, one team get a bonus if it make it, the other team get the bonus to smash it.
  
• a condition could provoke a sudden death and set the game time to 3 minute left: killing a specific player/lance, destroying a objective, etc.
  
• 1 dropship crashed and the players aboard are stranded… they start in a unusual location but there match start 30 seconds before everyone. They are stuck in that dropship until they blast away an exit trough the dropship, spending valuable ammo and time.
  
• A roving command vehicle in the enemy base need to be destroyed, or the enemy team would gain a new set of air strike after 10 minutes in the match.
  
• Maybe add a algorithm, to make each secondary objectives rarer the more they are correlated to a easier victory.

QP Event ‘’Mechs of the week’’: seed 2 specials mechs each week, and you got full and free access to customization and all skill are unlocked, but they are both painted in a different faction color scheme. Players could still bring whatever mechs they want to QP, but in each drop, put those who fielded the mech of the week on different opposite team. Could simulate faction A vs faction B, each fighting along there mercs sidekicks. Could be a cool way to help new players to close the skills and Cbills gaps and could shift the meta dramatically each week. At the end of each weeks, players could win or bought or get a discount on that chassis. Maybe give an artificial edge to them, like an extra quirk only for 1 week, or provide free consumable, or add a special objective that they are the only one to be able to score. Maybe each player's unit could also get there own mechs of the week, using there unit coffer, and getting some cash back from those mechs.
Spend Cbill/MC on the vote screen/prematch menu: special drop point, reroll the maps set offer, bet Cbill to trade players with the other team, hire some air fighter to deny air strike and prevent the enemy artillery to take position and setup their guns for 2 minutes, or buy extra turrets.

Have fun and remember to override!

Edited by Capt BoomBoom, 28 December 2020 - 11:45 PM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Quote

Map variants:

• each map come in 4 mirror variants: one is a mirror on the x axis, one on the y, and one that is xy. Require no new designs nor new assets and BAM, X4 the number of maps.
  
• pepper some special terrain spawning locations on each map, just a few, on high traffic areas or where lines of fire are likely to happen and randomly put relevant feature on it when the match is loaded. Random possibilities could be smoke/oil fire, large building, a berserk active turret, a wall, nothing, a single tree, a forest, a mech wreck, etc. As a result, some shortcuts would become useless and new battle dynamics would appear.

Thats is 100% unrealistic, while all Maps Handmade in MWO (heavy modified Cry3 Engine), You can not random spawn special Objects in it ,each obcect ,each effect ,each texture Brush must placed by hand by the Mapmaking...its not like the Algorithm caculated and with Biome Moduls working Maps in mW5(UE4 Engine)

Quote

1 dropship crashed and the players aboard are stranded… they start in a unusual location but there match start 30 seconds before everyone. They are stuck in that dropship until they blast away an exit trough the dropship, spending valuable ammo and time.

Thats unrealistic ...a lot of Work over Months for a mission ,thats better as a Singleplayermission as for a PvP ,and for all you must create,modeling and texturing a complete new Set of Assets

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 29 December 2020 - 01:09 AM.

[General Solo]

pbiggz, on 28 December 2020 - 09:09 PM, said:

You do understand the queues were merged because there werent ENOUGH players in the group queue to make it viable right? You seem to be incapable of understanding that splitting the queues literally makes the game unplayable for anyone who wants to play with even a single friend.

And why is that?
Why group queues not viable?

You seem to be incapable of understanding that it is better to fix the problems of group queue viability than to sweep those problems under the carpet/soup queue.

I mean solo queue was the most populated and viable queue.
The merge rekt this queue for alot of solo's

But perhaps that's PGI's business plan to wind the game down without legal repercussions

I know that this merge has not encouraged me to spend any money, if fact the opposite is true.

More Wrong

[Alreech]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 28 December 2020 - 04:39 PM, said:

They have ping systems which are more important than the stupid battle grid system we have now, it also isn't limited to special "command" like lance and company, literally everyone can callout pings as far as I know.

That's stupid with the battlegrid?
It has Grid Coordinates that are usefull if you use VOIP for communication ("Enemy in C3")
You can place orders via map (Battlegrid) and via Com Rose, a Voice Message is played and a Icon / Marker is set on the Battlegrid and the GUI.

Quote

This is true for every game......I'd say this is less of an issue for MWO because I doubt it is localized as much as other AAA titles. However it is a good point, but the battle grid system and locking into "lances" is dumb. It needs to be much easier to do things on it.

It's as easy as in the Battlefield games - one of the most popular Shooter series.

The splitt into "Lances" or "Squads" is also as methode to make things easier.
There is an upper limit of players that can work together. With to many players part of the team went astray and do their own stuff.
Splitting the team into smaller Squads/Lances prevent that.

It's easier to coordinate 4 players than 12.
It's easier to coordinate 3 Lances instead of 12 players.

Also not every of the 12 players has the ambition or skill to take a lead.
So it's fine to limit the special orders of the Lance Leader to only him and not every player.

Quote

No, most coordination happens during gameplay, not before hand. I mean detailing strats is nice and all, but most players don't even understand how to play maps (which is why they rotate away from strong positions at the start) so detailing how to play during is more important imo.

Selecting Mechs that work good together is done during the game?
Agreeing on a Leader who calls out in VOIP (or use the tools) is done during the game?
IMHO not.
In most Solo Quickplay matches no one bothers to call out, and if some one is doing it most just ignore it.

Group Quickplay was different:
Players in groups selected Mechs with compatible speed & loadouts before match making, also one of the players acted as Group Leader.
Coordination with other Groups was sometimes good, but mostly the other groups don't bother with it.
Dropping with less than 4 players in a group lead in most case to one or two players moving with other lances.

And most Solo Players understand how to play maps with an uncoordinated team:

• Don't stay behind
  
• Move with the murder ball - even if you have to give up strong positions

[Alreech]

Vlad Ward, on 28 December 2020 - 08:16 PM, said:

And yet millions of people get by just fine picking roles and characters/units in short pre-match lobbies in practically every popular online game.

Pratical every other online game with Classes/Roles use class/role information (by text or icon) in the GUI so a player can communicate his class/role to other players.
MWO does not do what, despite PGI designed it as Role based Shooter.

Battlefield marks Snipers with a crosshair icon, MWO marks PPC/Gauss snipers with?
Battlefield marks Assaults with a rifle icon, MWO marks AC/Lasers brawlers with?

Quote

We already have a functional LFG system to do what you seem to want anyway.

Who uses the LFG?
Did PGI fixed the things what were suggest in the official LFG feedback thread in 2015 to make it more usefull?
https://mwomercs.com...king-for-group/

MWO has now a working group system, but stuff like VOIP between the matchs for groups are still missing.
MWOs old Group Quickplay mode used unrestriced groups size that created problems like hard to match group sizes (10+2, 9+3) and prevented balancing.

The balancing by tonnage didn't worked, and forced bigger groups to use wolfpack tactis, putting big groups in fast mechs agains fractured teams of smaller groups with slower mechs.
Did some drops in a 12 player group, no, more tonnage doesn't counter the advantage of a being a bigger group with pre-coordinated loudouts and pre-selected Lance Leaders.

OZHomerOZ, on 28 December 2020 - 06:37 PM, said:

Groups too weak to play in queues made for groups need to get guid

Groups who can't understand a solo's perspective in a mixed grpoup and solo environment is stupeed

Groups who justify playing in a mixed queue so they can play with their friends while avoid queues made for groups are weak
and cowardly without a back bone

Solo Players who need 11 meat shield instead of playing Solaris are not weak?

Edited by Alreech, 29 December 2020 - 06:05 AM.

[General Solo]

Alreech, on 29 December 2020 - 06:03 AM, said:

Solo Players who need 11 meat shield instead of playing Solaris are not weak?

Dude if it wins the game its not weak
Its strong RAWR!
Mongoose in a vipers nest For the Win

As I have said before
Good team mates, win from the front
Bad team mates, win from the back

Match making is PGI's job
I just adapt to the situation...FTW
If the aire getz filled wid envy, woteva, speak to your manager

I'm nor here to appese
I'm here to win, alone if that's what it takes.

Enemy base is being attacked!


How good can these groups be if they allow me to meatshield 11 of them

Match maker issue

Which always was, and always will be the proper solution to this shmozzle.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 29 December 2020 - 07:37 AM.