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Mechwarrior Online 2021: Mechs

2021 mechs

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#41 Dakkalistic

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Posted 17 November 2020 - 04:38 AM

As for new mechs...

Posted Image

(Made this a while ago, when you know what happened)

#42 Seth Kalasa

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Posted 17 November 2020 - 04:45 AM

View PostKushiels Dart, on 16 November 2020 - 07:29 PM, said:

Dear Sir: I really would like to see the following mechs - before i die, which might be very soon: The LANCELOT and the Guillotine from the 2750 tech manual. You would make a long time gamer very happy. Sincerely, Kushiel's Dart

I support this request in the sign of respect to this man.

Daeron, as you see, even discussion of adding IS Omnies is just creating another wave whine about survivability of IS XLs. The current balance is a mess, but still it’s in kind of stable state.
These freebirth are dreaming to balance this game to the state of death, eliminating difference between Clan and IS. They will find a lot of arguments, but generally, it will just lead to the more mess than we have now. We have some core rules that have to be untouched. We need to have real differences between IS and Clan Tech, not just HUD color.

#43 Horseman

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Posted 17 November 2020 - 04:57 AM

View PostDaeron Katz, on 16 November 2020 - 01:05 PM, said:

New Community-Driven 'Mech (Community input to new 'Mech chassis choice)
Please make it another Reseen, like Crusader, Stinger or Wasp (I'd pay good money for a Stinger+Wasp double-pack).
Although IS omnimechs are a thing, so a pack of Omni versions of an existing model like Centurion or Blackjack wouldn't be a bad option either.

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Fix Mech Mobility (Desync)
While we're at it... for heavy and assault mechs, the Mobility skill tree doesn't really offer much unless you're one of the Fast Heavies and then it's still a maybe . Is there any chance the Mobility tree buffs could either be fixed amounts (x degrees, y degrees/sec etc) for Heavy and Assault mechs or at least provide different values for each mech class (increasing in relation to their decreasing base values, much like the opposite is true with the Survival tree)?

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Update Bolt-Ons (Stay Attached)
  • We'd get more mileage out of bolt-ons (which would translate to more use, and perhaps more players adopting them in general) if they were cross-applicable between different chassis. I don't want separate "Griffin Nails 3" and "Wolverine Nails 3", I want a "Nails 3" that can be used on both.
  • Same can probably be said about items that have mirrored left/right versions. Allow players to equip them on left/right but make both a single inventory item
  • We also desperately need an inventory of the bolt-ons we do own. There's no motivation to go checking every single individual mech to see what we might be able to equip on it or which mech is currently equipping a given bolt-on we own. An inventory that gives us this information and allows us to find out which of our mechs have that specific item equipped would help there.
  • By the same token, an inventory of the cockpit items allowing us to quickly see which mechs have that specific item equipped would also be great. I understand that it's not a problem for casual players who maybe own two dozen mechs if that much, but folks like myself (380 and counting!) would appreciate it very much.
Other possible improvements on the cosmetic side:
  • Giving us a way to copy decals placement between mechs of the same chassis (perhaps "camo export/import" as a whole?) and a quick way to copy a set of decals with colors across different chassis
  • FREAKING DECAL SEARCH (there are a LOT of them).
  • Move Solaris decals to a single category and remove them from the others. I've got over a hundred Solaris decals earned over the seasons, and they NEED a separate category so that they don't flood the display pointlessly.

Quote

IS Omnimechs / Engine Discussion
Not much to say. IS Omnis would have to either get different XL engine mechanics or massive ST buffs.

Edited by Horseman, 17 November 2020 - 10:54 AM.


#44 Dakkalistic

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Posted 17 November 2020 - 05:30 AM

View PostDaeron Katz, on 16 November 2020 - 01:05 PM, said:

  • Fix Mech Mobility (Desync)


There is a problem with this ofc, and sadly it's not even on the list, and it's the heat revamp.

Increasing heat dissipation has cut down TTK and turbocharged the NASCAR. Alphas weren't hit hard enough to be a worthy trade-off, and I vividly remember the shock at the new, much shorter match times when the revamp patch hit.

Now I'm worried what introducing higher mobility without addressing heat would cause.

#45 I O O percent KongLord

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Posted 17 November 2020 - 05:45 AM

Top3 for me:
-Mech chassis balance(quirks)
-Weapon Balance
-Mobility

There's some points on the list that don't really need fixing, for example the rescale thing. The greatest "offender" people could consider for that would be the grasshopper, but it's playing a role where size does. not. matter. Size doesn't really break the mech, unless it's a light mech in question. And lights are fine as-is. Should focus on stuff that can either make the game feel better, or stuff that can stir the soup(not that kind of soup).

#46 MarsThunder

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Posted 17 November 2020 - 06:50 AM

IMHO, new mechs and even mechs tweaks have least priority compared to other issues.

#47 The6thMessenger

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Posted 17 November 2020 - 07:00 AM

View PostI O O percent KongLord, on 17 November 2020 - 05:45 AM, said:

There's some points on the list that don't really need fixing, for example the rescale thing. The greatest "offender" people could consider for that would be the grasshopper, but it's playing a role where size does. not. matter. Size doesn't really break the mech, unless it's a light mech in question. And lights are fine as-is. Should focus on stuff that can either make the game feel better, or stuff that can stir the soup(not that kind of soup).


I would like Navid's Volumetric Rescale though.



This is awesome. I get that mechs are supposed to be big, but it's quite bad how they are r-wordedly big. The maps themselves feel claustrophobic, this is most noticeable in Solaris City where mechs are easily congested. Contrast that to the urban city of Styx in MW4. It feels like a city, but it doesn't feel like being a runny nose under the common cold.

Making the mechs small would put greater nuance in the environment. The small rocks could become legit cover. Some assault mechs wouldn't be just walking barn-doors, there's going to be greater skill involved in aiming and piloting.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 17 November 2020 - 07:03 AM.


#48 AnAnachronismAlive

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Posted 17 November 2020 - 07:24 AM

View PostThe6thMessenger, on 17 November 2020 - 07:00 AM, said:


I would like Navid's Volumetric Rescale though.



This is awesome. I get that mechs are supposed to be big, but it's quite bad how they are r-wordedly big. The maps themselves feel claustrophobic, this is most noticeable in Solaris City where mechs are easily congested. Contrast that to the urban city of Styx in MW4. It feels like a city, but it doesn't feel like being a runny nose under the common cold.

Making the mechs small would put greater nuance in the environment. The small rocks could become legit cover. Some assault mechs wouldn't be just walking barn-doors, there's going to be greater skill involved in aiming and piloting.


As KongLord mentioned already, the re-scale would not change / add to the general feel of play. While it would be nice to have, there seem to be other areas the game in need of improvement.

Edited by AnAnachronismAlive, 17 November 2020 - 07:24 AM.


#49 Horseman

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Posted 17 November 2020 - 07:30 AM

Yeah, while some individual chassis might benefit from a scale adjustment, there is no need for a sweeping rescale pass on every single chassis.

#50 The6thMessenger

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Posted 17 November 2020 - 07:47 AM

View PostAnAnachronismAlive, on 17 November 2020 - 07:24 AM, said:

As KongLord mentioned already, the re-scale would not change / add to the general feel of play. While it would be nice to have, there seem to be other areas the game in need of improvement.


Yeah but we should get this anyways. PGI's asking for what we want to happen -- I want it to happen.

I see no point in shooting it down if we're supposed to use this anyways.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 17 November 2020 - 07:48 AM.


#51 AnAnachronismAlive

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Posted 17 November 2020 - 08:06 AM

View PostThe6thMessenger, on 17 November 2020 - 07:47 AM, said:


Yeah but we should get this anyways. PGI's asking for what we want to happen -- I want it to happen.

I see no point in shooting it down if we're supposed to use this anyways.


Valid point, but the main emphasis for now should be on "what measures improve the general playability of the game for the players left, for the players we want to come back and for new players we want to keep playing the game with the potential of creating revenue for PGI (directly or indirectly). Re-scaling does IMHO not add value in terms of a "pull-factor" / in terms of adressing "push-factors".

So this is not about "shooting stuff down", but about weighting potential measures in regard of immediate impact. But as mentioned already, every opinion counts. As long as we back it up with arguments and build a consensus on certain points.

Edited by AnAnachronismAlive, 17 November 2020 - 08:11 AM.


#52 John Bronco

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Posted 17 November 2020 - 08:12 AM

Rescale would make many mechs more viable, most prominently the way too huge assaults and lights out there, and would in general make the game more difficult as it would now be possible to miss, say, an Atlas. So it definitely would have significant gameplay impact, and its a variable that would have to be considered amongst all the other balance items - quirks, weapons, agility etc.

#53 hardenum

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Posted 17 November 2020 - 08:19 AM

View PostSeth Kalasa, on 17 November 2020 - 04:45 AM, said:

I support this request in the sign of respect to this man.

Daeron, as you see, even discussion of adding IS Omnies is just creating another wave whine about survivability of IS XLs. The current balance is a mess, but still it’s in kind of stable state.
These freebirth are dreaming to balance this game to the state of death, eliminating difference between Clan and IS. They will find a lot of arguments, but generally, it will just lead to the more mess than we have now. We have some core rules that have to be untouched. We need to have real differences between IS and Clan Tech, not just HUD color.

IS XL is just a meme, dont tell me you actually use them

#54 AnAnachronismAlive

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Posted 17 November 2020 - 08:52 AM

View PostBlaizerP, on 17 November 2020 - 08:12 AM, said:

Rescale would make many mechs more viable, most prominently the way too huge assaults and lights out there, and would in general make the game more difficult as it would now be possible to miss, say, an Atlas. So it definitely would have significant gameplay impact, and its a variable that would have to be considered amongst all the other balance items - quirks, weapons, agility etc.


Even though I may agree on your point taken, it won't make mechs play more unique / change the general state of play in terms of diversity. Mechs will generally be less tall / smaller - IIRC -, but the game itself and the stuff to spend money on generally stays the same.

So while I'd love being able to hit that flee or locust huggin my legs when I have torso-mounted weapons on an atlas only, I'd prefer the (assumed) limited ressources being used for "revenueable" content for now. Since new heroes, mechs and adding individual fluff/quirks to make forsaken variants somehow viable feels like adding more gameplay value for me tbh.

Does not mean re-scale should be off the table, but in my personal list it is an issue of lower priority.

Edited by AnAnachronismAlive, 17 November 2020 - 08:53 AM.


#55 Deathshade

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Posted 17 November 2020 - 09:37 AM

A great way to get the community involved in a pseudo mod for MWO would be to allow for a standardized model import by PGI. 1. You establish what the model and/or animations can and can't contain for the proposed mech.
2. The community creates model and/or animations for import.
3. Pseudo mod leader verifies and approves community model import to MWO.
4. MWO uses community model to speed up mech creation process. (rinse and repeat. Also with Maps)

#56 I O O percent KongLord

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Posted 17 November 2020 - 09:47 AM

I would argue that the "too huge assaults" are not bad because they are huge, but because they suck for other reasons. Annihilator & Direwolf are arguably "the" big assaults, both are excellent and top tier. You got atlas or king crab, two other big assaults. King crab is fine, but it's not good so it falls behind when it comes to similar mechs (like the anni). Hitbox problem and weapons on left & right spread outgoing damage more than anni does. Atlas just sucks because of the hardpoint placement. Rescale won't fix that it will actually bring the mounts lower since the mech becomes smaller, so in its case quirks are the solution. Personally I feel that it's in an OK spot, but the weapons it's forced to use make it lacking compared to other big assaults.

#57 Alreech

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Posted 17 November 2020 - 11:38 AM

View PostDaeron Katz, on 16 November 2020 - 01:05 PM, said:

New 'Mech Variants
Quirks / Set of 8's for Under Performers
Armor Balance for Arm Weapon-Only 'Mechs (Jenner, Jagermech, Rifleman)
Weapon Balance Pass
IS Omnimechs / Engine Discussion



1.) New Mech Variants: make Faction Mech Variants players can only unlock by reaching certain faction ranks. Example: Grand Dragon for Kurita = Energy Hardpoint right arm and PPC Quirks


2.) Quirks are a problem connected to the skill nodes. Even low quirks can become powerfull if boosted with the right skilling. IMHO fixing the quirks would need to remove the additional buffing by skill nodes


3.) Other suggestion: flipping arms for that Mechs: Arms flip to the rear (needs a new input key), a target window like in advanced Zoom is used. If that is not possible more armor is fine too.


4.) Weapon balanced can't work if you can replace a SRM 2 with a MRM 40 and replace the 6 Medium Lasers in a Battlemaster with Large Lasers... this can't be fixed without touching the unrestriced Mechlab.


5.) IS XL Engines should follow the same rules as clan XL Engine.

Edited by Alreech, 17 November 2020 - 11:39 AM.


#58 Reno Blade

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Posted 17 November 2020 - 11:45 AM

  • New Community-Driven 'Mech (Community input to new 'Mech chassis choice)

    -> Totally new? new geometry also? like the good old event (i think driven by Moon...) where community submitted Marauder redesigns
    Sure, totally do that, and don't limit to one "winner", just push them to the pipeline, if more are favored
  • New 'Mech Variants

    -> Maybe
  • Rescale 'Mechs (for fun and role vs volumetric)

    -> Sure, slim down the Awesome (but then its similar to HatamotoChi)
    Generally, i think the silluette is important. Having KingCrab and DireWolf shaped like a brick... maybe make them slimmer from the left->right but longer front->back (like marauders)
  • Fix Mech Mobility (Desync)

    -> OK
  • Update Bolt-Ons (Stay Attached)

    -> Might give them more value, sure
  • Quirks / Set of 8's for Under Performers

    -> Give quirks more cooler/larger effects, or even integrate them into the skill tree (maybe skill tree could increase quirks, or give large quirks)
  • Armor Balance for Arm Weapon-Only 'Mechs (Jenner, Jagermech, Rifleman)

    -> Not only that, make Arms more useful in general
    It would be awesome if you could give ARM weapons specific quirks instead of the whole mech.
    There should be also decision on mechs that have torso AND arm weapons that give you a meaningful choice/benefit. currently you can juse use torso mounts and use arms as shields on many mechs without much of a loss (only some torso pitch/yaw issue on lower/higher ground targets)
  • Weapon Balance Pass

    -> definitely.
    What about re-inventing heat like: All weapon heat is heat over time (e.g. PPC 10heat over 2sec) instead of instant.
    This would reduce heat spikes, but allows different balance of alphas vs heat dissipation
    Or re-think the EnergyDraw system... maybe also heat over time instead of spikes, that would already make the whole system much more visually understandable and no longer "remove" certain builds due to spikes (e.g. classic atlas alpha strike)
  • IS Omnimechs / Engine Discussion

    -> All engines, structures and armors should have some rebalance for different benefits. E.g. having FF-armor would also allow to go "over" the maximum armor value due to the +12/20% armor bonus.
    Give LowerArm/Hand actuators for Omni pots even with PPC/Ballistics for more arm-mobility but give other bonus effect to these.
Also i think the Information Warfare pts3 from years ago was a very interesting system (it was just stopped due to the laser-ghost-range-dmg-if-not-locked thing).
e.g. Each mech has different Sensor strength (range, speed, lock...) and each mech has different Radar Signature (lights are harder to detect...) and skills would increase that (so sensor skills would also have more value).

Balancing:
Goal = longer battles by longer living combatants
  • Increase Armor and structur by 50% overall
  • Reduce heat dissipation by 50%, but all heat generation is spread over 2-5 seconds (this is like energy draw light)
  • Reduce cooldown of small weapons to make them „gap-fillers“ for the large weapons, e.g. medium laser 50% cooldown, while the overall large weapons cooldown is increased a bitt o spread out the „large damage burst“ further
  • Morph pulse lasers to very tiny cooldown spam weapon
  • Move some weapon quirks to the hardpoint to give each hardpoint a specific bonus, e.g. arm weapons could gain better cooldown and heat while torso weapons are more steady, so they get better range in general (just an example).

Edited by Reno Blade, 17 November 2020 - 11:58 AM.


#59 Taifune

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Posted 17 November 2020 - 12:05 PM

View PostDaeron Katz, on 16 November 2020 - 01:05 PM, said:

[*]New Community-Driven 'Mech (Community input to new 'Mech chassis choice)

Stone Rhino (Behemoth)
Spoiler


View PostDaeron Katz, on 16 November 2020 - 01:05 PM, said:

[*]Weapon Balance Pass

Actually weapons don't need much...
* heavy lasers are a bit too hot
* machine guns crit too much when boated

Edited by Taifune, 17 November 2020 - 12:07 PM.


#60 Betrax

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Posted 17 November 2020 - 01:12 PM

Hi]I think that these 8 mechs should be enough for now

IS Mechs Clan-Mechs

1.Chimera 1.Hellhound(MW4 design art looks rly good :D )
2.Argus 2.Woodsman
3.Owens 3.Fire Moth
4.Sunder 4.Deimos

Edited by Betrax, 18 November 2020 - 03:55 AM.






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