107 replies to this topic

[Kotzi]

AnAnachronismAlive, on 24 November 2020 - 02:53 AM, said:

I can agree on that! Still: nothing substantial happening for now (as smart and welcome even the smallest changes would be to show some good will) is likely not in his power to decide.

Than this all is worthless isnt it? I dont want to hear how next years feast will be fantastic when i am starving right now. Why not start little instead of planning the plan for the next 5 years, something PGI should have done themselfes anyway. You want people to come play, make it less stupid. Imagine a non veteran non BT fan having to choose the skillnodes and having to grind to undo stuff. That fun? Getting a mech once in a while wihout putting in money or grind while not knowing which one to choose? All those small things a veteran doesnt have to consider anymore but is quite demotivating when, plus that, you can get stomped repeatedly if you are unlucky.

If you cant fix MM and other big problems at least make the time enjoyable by giving new players something to look forward to. And i dont mean the look for a team, play competetiv or get out mentallity.

Edited by Kotzi, 24 November 2020 - 03:08 AM.

[RRAMIREZ]

AnAnachronismAlive, on 24 November 2020 - 02:33 AM, said:

There seem to be reasons about PGI not placing cadets into Tier 4.5 for now. Bombadil mentioned something like the potential of griefing/smurfing in the latest NGNTtv-Podcast, though I honestly doubt that this is the real cause. May be there are simply not enough (new) players in the tier 4-5 bracket to start games from? May be data implies there are some folks starting new accounts to maw through the lower tiers bolstering their ego? Can't tell, but this will stay speculation until some clarification anyhow.

That the problem. We need some feedback.
Letting speculation spread is the worst thing IMHO... especially with the trust "history" PGI has.

Agreed/ same questions on my side for the rest of your post.

Edited by RRAMIREZ, 24 November 2020 - 03:22 AM.

[Joshua McEvedy]

Kotzi, on 24 November 2020 - 12:44 AM, said:

Guys, patience. PGI has been completely suckerpunched by this situation.

So, tell me, how exactly is that so?

Flashback:



And Daeron was there too...fast forward to the 15:13 mark for the tragic truth.

[Alan Hicks]

What is this "MWO initiative" ?

Seems like just more talk and still no real GOOD change for the game.

Hoping something refreshing for next year...maybe

[Galahad2030]

I give this post a grade of D (below average).

It's easy to post three paragraphs once a week and call it a day. More is expected of a community manager, namely interaction with the community.

It is disheartening to hear of this smooth progression (nice to play with people's emotions right?) which DID NOT FIX anything.

As a result, this player will be scaling back community feedback involvement. My time is valuable, and being clear and concise and presenting solid ideas to a company that is deaf to the pleas and cries of it's customers is not my idea of community participation.

Btw, I also stopped waiting for your post Daeron on Mondays. I didn't want to believe it, but I already knew in my heart that PGI had turned away from the path of common sense and openness required to build a community.

I would have thought PGI learned something in the valley of death last year. Truth is hard to discern, but results over time tells no lies.

As a customer, I wish PGI would spinoff MWO into a separate entity led by people that believe in the product.

[Galahad2030]

Results or no more feedback. Period.

[DAEDALOS513]

Looks like these updates have gone into 'maintenance mode' just like mwo..

[AnAnachronismAlive]

Kotzi, on 24 November 2020 - 03:04 AM, said:

Than this all is worthless isnt it? I dont want to hear how next years feast will be fantastic when i am starving right now. Why not start little instead of planning the plan for the next 5 years, something PGI should have done themselfes anyway. You want people to come play, make it less stupid. Imagine a non veteran non BT fan having to choose the skillnodes and having to grind to undo stuff. That fun? Getting a mech once in a while wihout putting in money or grind while not knowing which one to choose? All those small things a veteran doesnt have to consider anymore but is quite demotivating when, plus that, you can get stomped repeatedly if you are unlucky.

If you cant fix MM and other big problems at least make the time enjoyable by giving new players something to look forward to. And i dont mean the look for a team, play competetiv or get out mentallity.

True points ... it is meaning- / worthless if we pre-expect PGI not to deliver anything substantial in 2021. And while past experiences may strengthen this expectation, not partaking (yes, I know ... again and again) to bring in at least SOME solid and dismiss invalid proposals and to cover up some of the structural deficits in terms of strategy PGI undoubtedly has via the community (yes, even though this ain't our job), won't improve our chances to get more of the game we want to play, will it?

Anyhow ... anger and bad faith being all just in the light of past events, so don't get me wrong. All I am saying is: the existence or non-existence, the content or non-content of weekly "updates" by a recently hired community and marketing manager won't decide about the "Go!" or "No!" of this games future ... in case it has any ... but I want it to have one. And that is - despite all odds - enough for me to give in something ... for now at least. Hard or not.

Edited by AnAnachronismAlive, 24 November 2020 - 06:23 AM.

[Kotzi]

AnAnachronismAlive, on 24 November 2020 - 06:22 AM, said:

True points ... it is meaning- / worthless if we pre-expect PGI not to deliver anything substantial in 2021. And while past experiences may strengthen this expectation, not partaking (yes, I know ... again and again) to bring in at least SOME solid and dismiss invalid proposals and to cover up some of the structural deficits in terms of strategy PGI undoubtedly has via the community (yes, even though this ain't our job), won't improve our chances to get more of the game we want to play, will it?

Anyhow ... anger and bad faith being all just in the light of past events, so don't get me wrong. All I am saying is: the existence or non-existence, the content or non-content of weekly "updates" by a recently hired community and marketing manager won't decide about the "Go!" or "No!" of this games future ... in case it has any ... but I want it to have one. And that is - despite all odds - enough for me to give in something ... for now at least. Hard or not.

I guess you are right and i am impressed by your patience. Me, i gave them a couple of years but in the end i gave up. I mean, it does not take a genius to see the development and start to counter it but that means you need to give a crap? Hell even something simple as a real, unrestricted training ground where non initiated BT folks and non veteran can try every mech with every tech and cosmetics would give them something to work and look forward to. Thus soften the blows of stomps and other inconvenient shenanigans. But then again that doesnt give you money in the short run does it. Shame...

[Zarrahtass]

I mean, at the end, the only question we have to answer for ourselves, individually, is: do I want to invest in this?
I mean time and thoughts. As you say.
However, if you are asked for help, by an entity you wish well, you will probably commit to helping.
Seeing actions or the absence of actions on the other side, that counteract your help, is an issue.
On the rational Level, it is clear, that the one needing or requesting help needs to bring in something to make the overall situation better. But on the emotional side, it is even harder. The assumption of a strong correlation between the will to help and actually helping on one side versus disappointment and anger on showcased failure to utilize even the most basic working principles is rather obvious.
So fundamentaly, I believe that we do not see any implications yet, that pgi is generally in a state to even receive help.
So for me, the required first step would be to somewhat understand this and actually address this.
It seems to be efficient, to do this in an iterative process that heavily utilizes communication between pgi or a community manager and the community. This is precisely missing.

[L1f3H4ck]

Paul Inouye, on 16 June 2020 - 04:30 PM, said:

Hey folks,

First off, thank you to everyone participating in this. There are some ideas here that will work with some fine tuning and we can work on those to get something that works for the game and you the community.

This was a good initiative, and whether you like the current starting tier and psr system or not, this kind of community engagement felt right, and it's sad to see anything less at this point. We didn't have that kind of back and forth in a focused attempt to fix things before.

What we HAVE had before was Daeron "grilling" Russ with the "hard-hitting questions", and this already reeks of it.

Edited by Dakkalistic, 24 November 2020 - 08:48 AM.

[Gagis]

Agreed. The buzz around the PSR reset was good and the reset itself was good and would not just need the couple of iterations to make it set.

[AnAnachronismAlive]

@Kotzi + @Zarrathass
Thanks a lot for such sophisticated answers, gentlemen. Very appreciated even if our assessment of the situation may differ in the end or in details. I just hope - for all of us - that PGI understands at least NOW that this game (and even more what it could have been) means something to us and we will gladly spend some money on it as long as they cater and develop the joy it brings step by step. Hopefully within a new engine - and I will buy any feckin piece of content / mech again without a second of hesitation - as long as they are willing to create something better than we have now in a transparent and open way.

Until January 2021 I will try to add my part. When they screw up again by being dishonest, incapable, obstinate or unimaginative ... *shrug* ... then it was a hell of a ride I was allowed to enjoy and be on my way.

[PeeWrinkle]

I am no longer sure what to think. I was very excited about this when I first heard about it. But over the past couple of months I am starting to have my doubts.
While I like the fact they are working to get as much community input as possible, there are also signs that they will not change that much for the better.
Easier items, such as new player starting tier are being met with resistance. This literally came up in a NGNG podcast. PGI is worried about changing it because it could potentially lead to existing players trolling new players. I can't even believe that was an argument. Any existing player would have to create a new account to do this. So there would be no benefit to their actual account. But more importantly even an average player would move out of that tier relatively quickly, making the entire effort a complete waste. So instead they would rather let a new players first experience be to get obliterated by a top tier player without those players having to go through any extra effort. Stupid, is all I can say about that.

Besides that, if they don't start getting players to spend money on the game it is all a mute point anyway. Right now they are talking about new packages and the like, but the problem is they need to fix the entire monetary structure/economy of the game. Real and in game currency really don't get you much. I have not spent money in years on this game because there is zero benefit to doing so. And that is from a player that spent thousands of dollars on game between 2012 and 2016 or so. Give me something worth buying, and make it affordable. I did the math on this a while back and to buy just about any IS heavy mech using MC and then using MC to buy CBills to upgrade it and level it in game the cost is just outrageous. Grant it this assumes you are using MC to by CBills to spend on leveling and upgrade the mech. Just to prove this, the Black Widow is 5,250 MC. The Mechbay is 300 MC, if I buy 1200 MC, for $50 that is roughly a $25 mech. Now If I want to buy CBills with MC and upgrade the darn thing it makes it cost closer to $40 or more.
Maybe it is like this to encourage players to by the packs instead. Well most of the mechs in those are useless in game or need significant upgrading to be effect, so I might as well be setting my money on fire. So far the solution for they have come up with is to introduce new packs - player approved, but the bigger issue is the entire pricing scale and economy is out of wack IMO.

I apologize, as those two examples should have been put in their respective forums.

So I will sum up and say I am skeptical. As a player that used to spend money on the game and has not spent any in a good long while, PGI is going to have to take some action soon to keep me interested. If not I'll check in later and see if it is worth my time and money.

[Lieutenant Hedgehog]

I'm new to the game and optimistic where these improvements are going to lead in the next few months.
Looking forward to the early-December Town Hall and hopefully changes starting in early January.

I do think some more interaction and transparency is going to be necessary for this process.
Weekly Forum Announcements won't be enough.
PGI / Daeron should maintain a presence in the Forum and speak directly with players, sooner rather than later.
Iterative back and forth will go a long way to develop good will with the community, and will lead to the best outcome.

I can see there's a lot of discontent out there in the Forum among veteran players.
I have no context on why so many people have bad blood with this company, but clearly some do, and many of the comments I read have to do with players asking for improvements and not getting them.

As long as players remain in the dark about what's happening, when it's happening, what's possible and what's not, there are people on this board who are clearly just going to get more agitated.
And that derails and toxifies the whole community discussion.

So I'm hoping Daeron & PGI are just super communicative going forward.
That they listen to the community and engage with the community and are open about what works, what doesn't and why.


That said, this is a great game.
It's 7+ years old -- that's unheard of. But the community's kept it alive.
It does need improvements, and the community has a lot of great ideas.
If PGI won the Mechwarrior license extension, they may even have an ace up their sleeve.
Let's hope they play their cards right with this initiative!

[Thorqemada]

Well, i looked into the Command Chair section, when i read whats up for Monetization and Modes i am out and will enjoy hopefully my GoG Version of MW5.

Monetization = more of the same
Modes = no end to Voting

[Lilferret]

A few suggestions.

There are already some tools in place that could assist with griefing new players. What I think is a bigger detriment is that new players get turned off due to no ability to communicate, dropped in with tier 1 players, steep learning curve. I think attention should focus fairly heavily on growth and retention of the player base. I for one always greet new players, send out friend invites and offer to help new players get things tuned up. I'm not the greatest player out there but I can help them with some basics. I'd love some way to have select members of the community have the ability to be a community trainer or greeter so they can buddy up with cadets, communicate with them more easily. For example the ability to add yourself to their friends list if they are still under Cadet and have your messages to them pop up the in game chat when they return to the home screen. Many cadets haven't figured out the chat system.

Volumetric rescale was a noble idea, but I think it should have been more of a guideline with ample room for adjustment.
Several mechs need to have their maneuvering re-examined.

Here is one that may not be popular everywhere, but I think could be helpful. Instead of every match being 8v8 utilize some of the smaller maps to allow for a modified scouting game mode. This would be 4v4, utilize smaller maps, and only allow mediums or lights. Could be added to solo queue only if further restrictions are wanted to prevent stomps. Personally, I really enjoyed the scouting missions. Some tense matches on Grim Plexus wondering if you were going to be able to make it back to the drop ship in time.

Please give us something to do with the c-bills in our unit coffers. Rental mechs for people in the unit. Upgraded dropships in cw, unit colors for all members, custom decals for our unit. Something. All those donations are just sitting there waiting.

Sell physical merch on the MWO store. JJ fuel T-shirts, stuff what won't violate the licensing but that supports MWO/PGI. You have a creative team, do creative things and sell them to us!

Monthly subscription replaces premium time. Monthly subscribers receive exclusive decals or skins or some such. Maybe subscribers can run un-purchased mechs in lobbies to try things out.

Here is a big one for me.
Give me a web based, or app based mechlab so I can fiddle with my mechs when I'm not logged into the game. Let this also allow me to save/name my loadouts and skill trees.

[Joshua McEvedy]

PeeWrinkle, on 24 November 2020 - 09:15 AM, said:

PGI is worried about changing it because it could potentially lead to existing players trolling new players. I can't even believe that was an argument. Any existing player would have to create a new account to do this. So there would be no benefit to their actual account.

This in fact happened a couple of years ago, in a particularly vile way, with Tier 1 trolls re-rolling alt accounts and not only seal-clubbing cadets and new players, but also stinking up up the in-game chat and VOIP with racist garbage. Those accounts were reported and banned, but with no real affect on the trolls, who just re-rolled new ones, and so on and so forth. The whole sorry exercise was not to benefit their pilots but to embarrass and troll the company and new players. That's why PGI is hesitating, because there is a history of that happening.

[AnAnachronismAlive]

Thorqemada, on 24 November 2020 - 10:40 AM, said:

Well, i looked into the Command Chair section, when i read whats up for Monetization and Modes i am out and will enjoy hopefully my GoG Version of MW5.

Monetization = more of the same
Modes = no end to Voting

You are right, but ye gotta see those proposals as short-term possibilities to create some revenue for now. These make sense only with a certain mid- to long-term strategy that is totally lacking atm ... cause most of us are losing ourselves in details of status-quo adaptions.

These are good for now, but won't make this game into something sustainable ... don't let yourself fool / direct too much by the bulletin points certain someones found to be areas of consensus. That is Ball-ackz! Think big, but think in steps towards em big things.

Edited by AnAnachronismAlive, 24 November 2020 - 11:37 AM.

[Tordin]

The6thMessenger, on 23 November 2020 - 10:54 PM, said:

Dec is also when MW5 releases, so I figure that is when your Steam-user tanks for MWO, as we finally lay our hands on MW5 which we had been waiting an entire god damn year for.

Of course I might wait for a week or two for major mods to update.

MW5 AAAAND Cyberpunk 2077. Im gonna have a frigging blast with both! First one on my laptop the other on console. Gonna occupy me for whatever 2021 have in store.. oh wait, yeah Halo Infinite too. And maybe dabble in MWO and see how it goes.
No shortage of entertainment in this confused and bizzare world we live in, at least for now.

Now, btw I do hope MW5 will support both 3rd party mods AND Steam Workshop.

Edited by Tordin, 24 November 2020 - 11:59 AM.