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Mwo Intel Gathering: Battlemech Variants


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#121 C337Skymaster

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Posted 16 January 2021 - 10:13 PM

View PostGas Guzzler, on 16 January 2021 - 10:20 AM, said:

Supernova - SNV-4

LA: 4E
CT: 1E
RA: 4E
H: 1E

Obviously this variant increases hardpoint count as its primary sell factor (so I expect less durability quirks and no Laser duration quirk to balance it vs SNV-1). Gives a little extra life into the chassis, more hardpoints than the high engine capped MAD-IIC.

Night Gyr - NTG-E

LA: 3E
LT: 1M
CT: 2E
RA: 3E
H: 1M

Gives the mech additional energy hardpoint to add a little bit of variety to the chassis, maybe we will see something other than dakka and dual goose.



Definitely want to second these


SNV-4 is "already" in the game, but disguised as the SNV-B. The Supernovas pre-date the Civil War tech upgrade, so the -A is the -2, and the -B is the -4, but modified using tech that was in-game at the time. If you look up the official record sheets, you can recreate those variants on those chassis to a T, usually with very minor modification.

#122 Hauptmann Keg Steiner

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Posted 16 January 2021 - 10:58 PM

The Atlas could definitely use new variants, especially ones that break the 'ballistic RT, missile LT, lasers CT/arms' mold.
  • Atlas AS7-A: 5(!) missiles in the RT, 1B & 1M LT. 1E in each arm. Would tie with the AS7-S for most Atlas hardpoints.
  • Atlas AS7-K2: CT ECM (option vs the AS7 D-DC), 1E per arm, 1M RT, 1M & 1B LT. Low hardpoint count, might need extra E hardpoints in the arms or M hardpoints in the side torsos.
  • Atlas AS7-K3: LT ECM, 1E each arm, 1B & 1M RT. Super low on stock hardpoints, but it is an Atlas with jump jets.
  • Atlas AS7-K2 Jedra: 1B(!) in each arm, 2E + 1M in each side torso, 1E CT. Custom loadout in lore, though.
  • Atlas II AS7-D-H: Only including since HBS' Battletech game used the regular Atlas model for its Atlas II. 1B RA, 2E LA, 1M RT, 1M + 2E LT.
  • Atlas AS7-S3: Would be another 2 AMS option. And it has a HD energy hardpoint. Right eye laser. Make it happen PGI.


The Stalker has a couple of variants that could add something new:
  • Stalker STK-7D: 1E Head (no Stalker does this yet), 2E CT (5M only has 1E), 2E each side torso, 1M each arm (would be only Stalker w/o arm lasers). A single extra energy hardpoint would tie for 10 offensive hardpoints w/most Stalkers, and would also enable a build close to the Stalker II (which has future tech not in MWO).
  • Stalker STK-8S: 1B(!) + 1E RT, 1E LT, 2E each arm. Would enable a ballistic Stalker for c-bills, and wouldn't step on the Misery's toes since the 8S has no missiles (also a Stalker first). Stock build has both a Light Engine and a Heavy Gauss Rifle, so would need to be reworked to be MWO legal.


The Dire Wolf can swap pods to use a disgusting amount of lasers and autocannons, but is severely limited in the missile department. there's a couple of configurations that could alleviate that:
  • Dire Wolf C/Daishi C/DWF-C: In addition to a new CT ECM and being a jump jet option to rival the S (although the S has debatably better side torso hardpoints), the C config has 1M in the head, 1M + 1E in each arm, and 3E in the LT. The head missile is a One-Shot Streak SRM, but could be replaced by a cLRM-10 in terms of weight and crit space.
  • Dire Wolf X/Daishi X/DWF-X: The X config also sports 1M in the head, and a MWO-legal option at that, along with a unique missile hardpoint in the RT. The 2B in the RA would also give a c-bill option for an extra ballistic, as well as 2E LA and 2M LT.


The Night Gyr has a configuration that could add some more variety:
  • Night Gyr E/NTG-E: The CT (2E), and RA (3E) would give it more energy options, and the head (1M) would be a unique option for NTG builds, for squeezing in another cSRM or cLRM-5/10.


If PGI-unique builds are an option, the Nova Cat could use pods with side torso ballistics (maybe machineguns to replicate the Nova Cat G/NCT-G's 8 AP Gauss Rifles), or a ballistic RA pod for the Blood Asp.

Edited by Hauptmann Keg Steiner, 17 January 2021 - 12:45 AM.


#123 NumberFive

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Posted 16 January 2021 - 11:29 PM

Back in the MW2 days, PPC transmitted heat to the target. That'd be a nice tweak since the PPC has become obsolete in most contexts.

#124 Thilas

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Posted 16 January 2021 - 11:44 PM

Echoing the calls for the KGC-010 and DRG-5K (yes, technically a new name, but it's a Dragon, with energy hardpoints in the right arm instead of ballistic). Could also do the 7K replacing the C3 slave with an additional ton of ammo so there's a MASC variant as well.

Alternate ideas:

MAD-7D: RA: 2E, LA: 2E, RT, 2B, CT: ECM (While the Marauder already has an ECM variant, that one relies on missile hardpoints, this one gives the player an option of ballistics instead).

Historical Loadout: RA: ER Large Laser, ER Medium Laser, LA: ER Large Laser, ER Medium Laser, RT: RAC/5, CT: Guardian ECM, LT: 2 tons RAC Ammo + Case, TC6 (I think?)

Are new Hero mechs on the table?

#125 Bewitched GTi

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Posted 16 January 2021 - 11:50 PM

oh and on topic of extra variants (existing) you could use resources currently on file, produce an ATLAS with the escort mission camo, equip it with massive structure quirks, and lbx20 say
with the command console installed to fill a similar role to the cyclops.

Edited by Bewitched GTi, 17 January 2021 - 06:54 AM.


#126 ImperialKnight

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Posted 17 January 2021 - 01:49 AM

None, don't care about variants of existing mechs.

However, please update the Spider mechs to give them more hardpoints in line with more modern Lights mechs in MWO. Tired of seeing people running around in them dragging down the team with 2 MPLas and 50 damage at the end of the game

#127 Lexandro Wolf

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Posted 17 January 2021 - 02:06 AM

Dear PGI!

I know you said let's say a machine that's already in the game.
I’m saying one that you’re halfway done and could easily (I think) bring into the game.

And this is the 20 tons classic clan omni 'Mech, the Fire Moth.

The lower body and legs of the Fire Moth are the same as the Mist Lynx, all you have to do is change the position of the arms and create the torso.

Since I think there is a shortage on the clan side of the 20-ton light 'Mech, it would definitely be worth considering.

https://www.sarna.ne..._Dasher.jpg.png

https://images-wixmp...e876513190f.png

https://www.crayven....chbay/firev.gif

https://www.crayven....moth-post-a.jpg

Edited by Lexandro Wolf, 17 January 2021 - 02:11 AM.


#128 KRZZPFFF

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Posted 17 January 2021 - 03:32 AM

I really like the Warhawk but I think it needs some love. It is an ok mech but for every loadout I come up with for the Warhawk there is always a mech that can do it better. And I feel like the Warhawk deserves to be more than kind of ok.
Examples of builds with disadvantages (I am not referring to missile builds because I find them the least interesting):

Double 20 rated ballistics:
When I put double LBX20 on a Warhammer IIC it goes 81,5 kph with some small lasers on top. The Warhawk is significantly slower with this loadout, has no space for lasers on top and most of the ammo is in the right side torso so if you lose that torso you are almost useless but the guns are spread wide apart.

Double UAC10 + Double LRGPLS
Impossible because not enough weight available which in my opinion is rather underpowered for an 85t clan mech.

Laservom Double LRGPLS + 4x MEDPLS
I can do the same weapons with the same amount of heatsinks on a Warhammer IIC which then goes 70,9 kph instead. Also It leaves 3 tons unused on the Warhawk due to lack of pod space.

Quad PPC
Yeah, I know it kind of works but it has a very narrow specialisation as a sniper. You can’t even put an alpha strike out and it is very toasty. Even this can be done more effective by mechs that can mount more heat sinks. If you stumble into a brawl you can not compete with this loadout (I know you should not brawl with it but stuff happens).

Unfortunately I am not sure how to fix this. If you do not want to restructure pod space etc. may be an increased ghost heat limit for some energy weapons would do the trick. May be someone has a better idea than I do but I would love to see more Warhawks on the battlefield and not only those with quad PPCs. I always felt like the Warhawk should be able to be a really good laser boat. May be this is the way to go with it. Mine is running double LRGPLS, one MEDPLS and an LBX20. Yes it works but it is not special in any way.
I would love to have a reason to own more Warhawks. Thank you [font=&#10]😊[/font]

#129 tingod

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Posted 17 January 2021 - 03:43 AM

give me a marauder with ballistics in both sidetorsos...

#130 Cmd Macross

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Posted 17 January 2021 - 03:50 AM

I agree that the Warhawk needs some love!

Maby there is room for a Jumpcapable (or ECM) Variant? (That would be new...)

RA 2 E (with optional lower Arm?)
LA 2 B
RT ECM
JJ´s in a Locations of choice

Since the Warhawk is Omni it seems a good Idea to make it a Hero. Some people will be attracted by single parts. Maby it helps to generate some real Money?!

#131 Mal Bolge

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Posted 17 January 2021 - 03:54 AM

Jagermech

JM6-A
JM6-S
JM6-DD
JM6-FB

Just like the existing variants, except that they have the armor value on the arms as a 65 ton mech (40) instead of a 50 ton mech (32). The armor value of the torso is also that of a 65 ton mech (60, 84, 60), but with armor quirks +6 for each side torso and +4 for the CT.

I know it's very controversial to suggest that a 65 ton mech should have the armor values of a 65 ton mech, but here goes anyway.

#132 Gagis

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Posted 17 January 2021 - 04:01 AM

View PostKRZZPFFF, on 17 January 2021 - 03:32 AM, said:

Quad PPC
Yeah, I know it kind of works but it has a very narrow specialisation as a sniper. You can’t even put an alpha strike out and it is very toasty. Even this can be done more effective by mechs that can mount more heat sinks. If you stumble into a brawl you can not compete with this loadout (I know you should not brawl with it but stuff happens).

What have you been smoking? WHK-PRIME with all of its omnipod set quirks is one of the best, if not the very best, ERPPC mechs in the game. It's a staple in competitive tournaments, faction play and even good in quick play where hot long range mechs usually don't do quite that well. It runs cool enough and hits hard enough it's good even in short to medium range.

#133 tingod

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Posted 17 January 2021 - 04:12 AM

... other wish, a thanatos with ecm and ballistic in each region, arms, torsos...

#134 KRZZPFFF

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Posted 17 January 2021 - 05:19 AM

View PostGagis, on 17 January 2021 - 04:01 AM, said:

What have you been smoking? WHK-PRIME with all of its omnipod set quirks is one of the best, if not the very best, ERPPC mechs in the game. It's a staple in competitive tournaments, faction play and even good in quick play where hot long range mechs usually don't do quite that well. It runs cool enough and hits hard enough it's good even in short to medium range.


I was not aware of that because PPC boats are not that appealing to me. But from what I saw the relevant quirk is 4% PPC heat. I do not find that too impressive and do not care about the velocity quirk. May be you are a pro player and can make serious use of those subtle advantages. I am just an average Joe and can not. It is just not enough to make a noticable difference to me. Also I do not do faction Play or turnaments. And still, it is still only the PPC option that we are talking about at all. Nothing else. . Even if you are correct from a math point of view. Wy not have even cooler versions of this mech in the future? I would not mind anyway :-)

#135 Zirconium

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Posted 17 January 2021 - 05:22 AM

The most important aspect in all of this is that we don't upset the game balance.

If we are adding in new variants we need to avoid strengthening the current meta or weaknesses in the game such as LRM boating and ballistic spam. Adding more variants that do the same job as existing typecast mechs will only strengthen the current meta and divides.

I would personally like to see more variants added on to mechs that are obsolete in this game due to their hardpoint layouts, but in lore and other mechwarrior games are perfectly fine. The Atlas is a primary example of this where it's legendary in lore but awkward at best in quick play and faction play (there are some viable solaris builds).

Any changes to the clan omnimechs should be relatively small, as just one or two improved or new hardpoints will open up a wide range of new builds.

Rather than going on public popularity, it might actually be an idea to add one new variant to perhaps the 2-3 statistically worst performing mechs in each weight class, and to then repeat this process every 1-2 months. If any mech chassis is sat within the bottom 2-3 mechs in its weight class for more than two 'rounds' in a row, then it would indicate the need for a perks buff instead in the following 'round'. This approach may bring more mechs into use rather than strengthening overall meta mechs, as one new variant alone is unlikely to send a mech from the very bottom to the very top when factoring other weaknesses such as hit boxes.

If the resources for new chassis are seriously on the table, then I would like to see any of the Starslayer, Solitaire, Imp or Ostroc added.

If there is scope to look at game mechanics, then four legged mechs or the hatchetman / axeman melee ability would be interesting to see.

However, if resources are limited and it's a choice of more mechs or improvements elsewhere on the game, I'd prefer to see additional maps brought into solaris and a last-mech-standing all-versus-all mode created for perhaps 12 players on a quick play map with a tonnage limit.

In a free-for-all mode consideration would need to be given to things such as if the matchmaker should avoid grouping players from the same unit, hiding player names, or even normalising camouflage, to try and neutralise the playing field / avoid people picking on players or acting as a team.

#136 Zaver11

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Posted 17 January 2021 - 06:16 AM

I can't speak for everyone, but I for one would actually like to see more new clan mechs in the game. I'd really like to see a version of the Cave Lion myself.

Cave Lion - BattleTechWiki (sarna.net)

#137 C337Skymaster

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Posted 17 January 2021 - 07:17 AM

View PostMal Nilsum, on 17 January 2021 - 03:54 AM, said:

Jagermech

JM6-A
JM6-S
JM6-DD
JM6-FB

Just like the existing variants, except that they have the armor value on the arms as a 65 ton mech (40) instead of a 50 ton mech (32). The armor value of the torso is also that of a 65 ton mech (60, 84, 60), but with armor quirks +6 for each side torso and +4 for the CT.

I know it's very controversial to suggest that a 65 ton mech should have the armor values of a 65 ton mech, but here goes anyway.


The Jagermech did originally have the normal armor of a 65 ton 'mech. A few years ago, PGI did an armor pass, based on feedback from the community (something like this) and whatever statistical data they had saved on their end. Jagermechs carry almost all of their weaponry in their arms, sure, but their arms are tiny, and 90% of the time their torsos were disappearing long before their arms did. Same thing with Stalkers, Jenners, Jenner IICs, and maybe BlackJacks? I'm starting to forget, now...

Anyway, they moved armor away from the arms (which "never" got destroyed), and redistributed that across side torsos/legs/CT's, where particular 'mechs seemed to ALWAYS get destroyed, to try and make it so the entire 'mech lost armor at about the same rate, rather than always having full-armored arms every time you died. The new values didn't drop below the armor values given in the record sheets, but usually capped out right around that level, moving all the "extra" normally available to a 'mech of that weight class to other components. The total armor value for the 'mechs remained unchanged.

That said, though: PGI, there are several Jagermechs in the record sheets that placed the torso energy hardpoints in the CT, rather than the side torsos. That would allow Jagermechs the option to "zombie", something they've never been able to do, before.

#138 Garthim

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Posted 17 January 2021 - 07:47 AM

This may not be what your looking for but I have a friend who was a Founder for the game and has all the cool Founder only variants. With how many years it has been since the game came out, wouldn't mind those Founder mech variants and special issue variants to finally be available to the general public permanently.

#139 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 17 January 2021 - 08:06 AM

View PostC337Skymaster, on 16 January 2021 - 10:13 PM, said:

SNV-4 is "already" in the game, but disguised as the SNV-B. The Supernovas pre-date the Civil War tech upgrade, so the -A is the -2, and the -B is the -4, but modified using tech that was in-game at the time. If you look up the official record sheets, you can recreate those variants on those chassis to a T, usually with very minor modification.


I realized that, but still hoping for a SNV variant with more hardpoints.

#140 C337Skymaster

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Posted 17 January 2021 - 08:13 AM

Finally made it all the way to the end, and can add my own suggestions. :)

Of the missing 'mechs in-game, a LOT of them can be built on 'mechs that exist. The only value in adding them anyway would be in adding quirks to go with them, but on a lot of the very oldest 'mechs, the quirks were already added to the chassis that was expected to be the "base" (ie: KFX-Prime has the right hardpoints to build the KFX-A and KFX-B, and had generic ballistic quirks added as a result, though the KFX-A could come with some sort of Gauss-specific quirk, and the KFX-B could have a UAC jam chance quirk, etc).

'Mechs that can NOT be built in the game would be the most value-added, but require slightly more work than mere mechlabbing.

Clans:

DWF-C and -X have been mentioned several times, all accurately touting their merits. A suggestion for the -C would be to replace a heat sink with a half-ton of streak ammo, and perhaps an extra ton of ATM ammo. Or else one-shot streaks could be added to the game in a form similar to rocket launchers (one shot, double damage).

BAS-E

MAD-IIC-3 gives the double-energy CT of the -1 with the missile left torso of the -8 on a single chassis (since this is a battlemech, and those chassis can't just be recombined).

WHK-D adds energy hardpoints to the right torso.
WHK-F adds a ballistic hardpoint to the right torso. (This is the canonized version of the MW4 Warhawk)
WHK-H adds an extra missile hardpoint to the right arm, combined with two energy hardpoints.

NTG-E: adds a lot more energy hardpoints, and a head-mounted missile

SMN-G/Q each add three missile hardpoints to the side torsos, dramatically increasing the power of the splat-Summoner, which doesn't seem to get nearly as much love as the poptarting sniper versions.

HBR-C: adds an extra energy hardpoint to the left arm
HBR-H: provides a compelling reason to NOT take ECM on a Hellbringer: 4x energy and a missile hardpoint on the left torso.

MDD-D: can be built on the Revnant, although creating it as a dedicated CB version allows easier access, and could allow for specific unique quirks.

SCR-E: double-energy side torsos, energy/missile arm combos. Adds more variety to the Stormcrow, and adds more torso options.

HMN-D: adds an extra energy hardpoint to the right torso.
HMN-H: adds extra energy hardpoints to each arm, and adds ECM to the left leg. This will be the first leg-mounted hardpoint of any 'mech in MWO.

SHC-C: This version of the Shadow Cat will add an energy hardpoint to the left torso, allowing for four energy hardpoints across the 'mech.

VPR-F: While this would definitely add new flavor to the Viper, we all know it will immediately be combined with the -C's side torsos to boat 12 MG's on a chassis with a LOT more armor than a Piranha. This may need specific set-of-8 quirks, or even a return of negative quirks, to attempt to balance this out.
VPR-H: this simply adds the AMS hardpoint to the -A's left torso. Super-easy for PGI with literally zero extra graphic design.
VPR-I: adds a left-arm omnipod with energy and missile in the same arm.

ADR-E: two energy hardpoints in each side torso. This would be the first Adder to have more than a single hardpoint in any component.

MLX E/F/H/P, These could be added through the addition of only one or two of them: the -F, and the -H
MLX-F: adds four energy hardpoints to each arm, with ECM in the right torso. The -P uses the same arms, and the -E uses the right arm, with any missile left arm.
MLX-H: adds a missile/AMS combo in the left arm. The right arm has three energy hardpoints, which would already be eclipsed by the -F's four energy hardpoints.

Inner Sphere:

Could you guys sit down and provide a detailed explanation of why you can NOT add Crit-Splitting and Ammo-Switching? Be as technical as you can get. I'm sure there are some folks in the community who'll understand exactly what you're saying, and may even be able to come up with a solution that you haven't thought of, yet. You've already relied on Modding to make MW5 worth playing. I'm sure that same talent can be put to use on MWO.

Atlas: There are several versions of the Atlas that would be made possible with Crit-Splitting. The -S2, for example, uses a Heavy Gauss Rifle AND a Light Fusion Engine.
Atlas-S3: this is the canonized version of MW4's Atlas, and should be added for all the nostalgia it provides, as well as for the head-mounted energy hardpoint.

Marauders: Looking through the record sheets, there are actually more Marauders with ECM than without, and the only two Marauders with Jump Jets are the two that are currently in MWO. This gives a false impression of what "normal" marauders are like to most MWO players (myself, included, until I went digging). The 7D would be a great base chassis from which other missing ECM marauders could be built.

Speaking of missing tech: why can't you guys add Triple Strength Myomer? Sure, there's no melee, so 90% of its purpose is gone, but its in-game mechanic could be similar to that of MASC: whenever the 'mechs heat is above 30%, they get a speed boost (but without the time-limiting risk of MASC). The player would then need to carefully meter their heat, and keep it between 30% and 100% to maintain the speed advantage. Once you've done that, you can add the stealth-armored MAD-4L.

I mentioned in another post but for conciseness: Jagermech -DG, and -DGr both move their side-torso energy hardpoints to the CT, which would allow the Jagermech to Zombie, and give it a reason to take a standard engine.

The last 'mech I've researched is the Bushwacker-L1. This is the only variant of the Bushwacker missing from MWO, but is waiting on Crit-Splitting so it can fit an LBX-20 in the right arm.

There are several versions of the Commando that add things like Artemis and ECM, and move hardpoints around so that everything still fits, as well as new and unique versions of other lighter 'mechs, all of which are present in the record sheets (which I assume PGI has access to) and provide variation on what currently exists in MWO.

What PGI REALLY needs, is to have someone on staff with the same nth-level nerd/geek knowledge and enthusiasm as displayed here in this post. I'm fairly certain that at least half of these posts were made without any refresher, whatsoever, and were simply written based on what the player already knows about missing variants that can't be built in MWO. If someone at PGI had that level of knowledge, you'd already know what versions were easiest to add that can't already be kit-bashed, and you'd be able to start piecing them together on your own.

View PostGas Guzzler, on 17 January 2021 - 08:06 AM, said:

I realized that, but still hoping for a SNV variant with more hardpoints.


I don't know of any SNV with more than 8 hardpoints. The -1, -B, and -C have 8 energy. The -3 has 7 energy, and the -A and -Boiler have 8 hardpoints of varying types.





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