85 replies to this topic

[ghost1e]

just please remove permanent boltons.

the only option I see for comp play otherwise is a boycott of boltons in general, or (especially if they aren't hollow but take no damage) the game will evolve into ridiculous pay-to-win with optimal boltons for each mech to shield it best.

everything else so far seems very good, but it's decisions like these which drive away players from the top of the game :/

P.S.: if you don't want to roll this back, at least add a "disable bolt-ons" button to lobbies and remove them for your own tournaments

[Navid A1]

Please hold off on releasing the permanent bolt-ons change until you have enough engineering resources to make one of these two changes:

1- make bolt-ons fall off after the component they are attached to drop bellow 75% health

or

2- have an option for players to turn them off completely on their clients

[Steve Pryde]

I really looking forward the to static daytime change but i will miss the rain and fog on Viridian Bog. In my opinion it was the most atmospharic map out there.

[OmgKllL]

Hi everyone, everything I will write below is just IMHO:

bolt-ons should be disabled in fp and in general in the comp play
calibrate the trial mechs and gave them the full skilltree that build requires
erase consumable, keep just the UAV as 1-shot "weapon" (like the rocket launchers)
maybe do the same thing to coolshots, but people needs to learn how to manage heat

And in the future reworks the skill tree mechanics, or kill it and add some "equipment" which enable the same effects but that use some of the mech's slots.

Thanks and keep on working guys.

EDIT: the "purpose" is to make this game more "up-to-date", quicker and more accesible to new players.

Edited by OmgKllL, 10 February 2021 - 02:12 AM.

[Nehkrosis]

Why are these map changes happening? its a step backward, the amount of maps we have atm is already insanely small, taking away features like dynamic weather and day/night cycle sucks, what gives?

[CycKath]

*sob* Night-time thunderstorm on Bog was magnificent and now its gone...

[Papa Varken]

Frozen City is an absolute nightmare for anyone with a vision impairment, white on white with white passing over it . . this would be an immediate fail under the new accessibility requirements to counter exclusion of people with a disability in engaging with online material.

Keep the time of day and lighting by all means, but get rid of or allow the clouding to be disabled.

Other maps, fair enough, but try to keep occlusion to a minimum, for the reason identified above.

[Navid A1]

Kaukas, on 10 February 2021 - 01:44 AM, said:

hello , make mwo great again !

those permanent boltons are fantastic idea , and all who have opinion that its bad idea because u cant identify enemy mech easy - big part of real life warfare is camouflage and deception, like my grandfather used to say - there are no rules in war and in bed

at last now there is a point in buying boltons and we gona see completely new looking mechs on battlefield

thansk pgi , good luck , dont let this game die and try to make more maps - think about making fundraiser for map making - mabe this way comunity can fund new map every 3 months

Except in real life when you shoot a piece of camouflage enough, it disintegrates, and falls off... also in real life mechs don't exist and 200+mm cannons travel further than 270m.

so... yeah... real life, screwing over MWO since 2012.
It's even funnier when I see the legendary founder badge. It's 2012 again!

[Bowelhacker]

Navid A1, on 09 February 2021 - 07:25 PM, said:

Permanent Bolt-ons would create a huge issue affecting gameplay. They are capable of faking mesh models,

Weapons in this game cost heat and ammo, shooting a permanent fake mesh can be really messed up, ESPECIALLY in competitive play.

There MUST be an setting option to disable them in game from player's point of view.


This is a prime example of a 100% PGI-originated idea which is dropped into players' lap with no prior feedback gathering.

Yes, that massive number of comp players who must be catered to...

[NumberFive]

Bowelhacker, on 10 February 2021 - 03:31 AM, said:

Yes, that massive number of comp players who must be catered to...

I'm never going to be a tournament player and the problem with the bolt-ons distorting the mech target never occurred to me until now but:

They are right.

It is a game-wrecking change. Now is a good time to acknowledge that and walk it back. Sometimes that's how software feature change management works.

[C337Skymaster]

LordNothing, on 09 February 2021 - 10:09 PM, said:

idk if i like this approach. i think would have added time of day to the vote screen or randomized it at the start of the match. or add multiple versions of the map at different times. it would just set up the lighting for that time not change throughout the match. 15 minutes is to short to notice any difference even with the planet spinning fast enough to fly apart. unless its extremity in mwll, which is my all time favorite mechwarrior map, but there is no way to make that work in mwo.

THIS!! I was going to comment this, myself, but then noticed I was beat to the punch. There's no reason to get rid of the OTHER times of day, we just need the CHANGE gone. I rather liked the variety of occasionally NEEDING to use heat or night vision in order to function. That was one of the appeals of Frozen City (Classic): you can't see anything without heat vision because of the blowing snow. River City at night was one of the few places you really need to use night vision. I'm all in favor of making the time of day static during a match, but that doesn't mean that it can't be dynamically set during map loading.

Nehkrosis, on 10 February 2021 - 02:30 AM, said:

Why are these map changes happening? its a step backward, the amount of maps we have atm is already insanely small, taking away features like dynamic weather and day/night cycle sucks, what gives?

So the CHANGE from day to night, or vice versa, was causing significant frame drops (60 fps down to 10 fps for a few seconds) on everybody's computer, regardless of the power of their rig. Honestly, I was starting to use the frame drop as my queue to turn off night vision because the sun was coming up. It's a cool feature in theory, but it was causing issues in practice, and players were getting annoyed.

Daeron, personally, if you guys can figure out a way to re-implement dynamic time of day and dynamic weather WITHOUT the performance hiccup that came with it, by all means, bring it back! It was a cool feature! But make sure it works without affecting player framerate, first. That's first and foremost the biggest concern regarding these features.

Thanks!

[C337Skymaster]

DaddyPig, on 10 February 2021 - 03:05 AM, said:

Frozen City is an absolute nightmare for anyone with a vision impairment, white on white with white passing over it . . this would be an immediate fail under the new accessibility requirements to counter exclusion of people with a disability in engaging with online material.

Keep the time of day and lighting by all means, but get rid of or allow the clouding to be disabled.

Other maps, fair enough, but try to keep occlusion to a minimum, for the reason identified above.

Have you tried using Heat Vision on those maps? The map then becomes white targets on a black background, and buildings get whiter on that black background as they get closer. That's one of the things I love about Frozen City (Classic), is that you can't see anything without using heat vision (whether you have poor eyesight or not), and it handicaps everybody equally. Unfortunately, if there's an option to turn it off for disabled people, then everybody's going to turn it off. It will give a clear sniper shot across the map, and anyone who kept it on won't be able to see to return fire. So it'll automatically mandate turning off all weather effects, which will ruin that aspect of the experience.

[AnAnachronismAlive]

Navid A1, on 09 February 2021 - 07:25 PM, said:

Permanent Bolt-ons would create a huge issue affecting gameplay. They are capable of faking mesh models,

Weapons in this game cost heat and ammo, shooting a permanent fake mesh can be really messed up, ESPECIALLY in competitive play.

There MUST be an setting option to disable them in game from player's point of view.


This is a prime example of a 100% PGI-originated idea which is dropped into players' lap with no prior feedback gathering.

While those hitbox-issues will still be a pita in quick- or faction play games, ruling out bolt-ons on a general basis in all competitive matches / tournaments should provide a temporary workaround until PGI fixes (if at all) the issue. The use of any bolt-ons automatically leading to a loss should be enough to keep participants in line.

[LordNothing]

night vision works great in caustic valley, either at night or even during day while in the caldera, it helps cut through the steam.

[ImperialKnight]

i don't know know who has been asking for permanent bolt-ons, but I am fairly confident it's going to screw up game play, given the game's history with terrible hitboxes/hit registration. PGI, please keep your fingers on that roll-back button

[Alilua]

Removing features like dynamic time of day is lame. Can't you get the game to be optimized without gutting it of features? Maybe get heat vision to actually work with the environments before you take that out too.

[yrrot]

Navid A1, on 09 February 2021 - 07:25 PM, said:

Permanent Bolt-ons would create a huge issue affecting gameplay. They are capable of faking mesh models,

Weapons in this game cost heat and ammo, shooting a permanent fake mesh can be really messed up, ESPECIALLY in competitive play.

There MUST be an setting option to disable them in game from player's point of view.


This is a prime example of a 100% PGI-originated idea which is dropped into players' lap with no prior feedback gathering.

So, do comp players not know where to shoot on the base mech model? Are they incapable of ignoring the additional geometry? That's honestly the exact opposite end of the skill spectrum that boltons should even impact.

*New* players getting a "hit" displayed because it hit a bolton would certainly be a problem, but experienced players? Psh, git gud. If there's boltons that are a huge issue for comp (for some reason?), comp should ban them or all boltons.

PGI already is planning to strip the boltons of collision mesh all together later as they get the resources to do so. And this is definitely not a PGI-originated idea. People have been complaining about it since boltons were made to fall off on one touch in the first place.

[Brauer]

TheUltimateGhost, on 10 February 2021 - 12:51 AM, said:

just please remove permanent boltons.

the only option I see for comp play otherwise is a boycott of boltons in general, or (especially if they aren't hollow but take no damage) the game will evolve into ridiculous pay-to-win with optimal boltons for each mech to shield it best.

everything else so far seems very good, but it's decisions like these which drive away players from the top of the game :/

P.S.: if you don't want to roll this back, at least add a "disable bolt-ons" button to lobbies and remove them for your own tournaments

You're understating the bolton problem here. Improperly implemented permanent boltons will create a P2W problem at ALL levels of the game, including super casual solo QP drops, and will negatively impact everyone. PGI needs to take their time and do this right, either by making boltons take damage or by adding a "display boltons - yes/no" toggle to the options.

This could easily become another situation where PGI implements a half-baked change because of a vocal minority and then the predictable consequences of that change negatively impacts and drives away players across the board.

[Brauer]

Nehkrosis, on 10 February 2021 - 02:30 AM, said:

Why are these map changes happening? its a step backward, the amount of maps we have atm is already insanely small, taking away features like dynamic weather and day/night cycle sucks, what gives?

Switching the time of day causes a huge performance hit for many MWO players. IMO it is essential that PGI remove the dynamic change. I do think they could consider making all time of day and weather combinations available and just have them be static for entire matches, but I don't know how that would work behind the scenes.

[C337Skymaster]

Brauer, on 10 February 2021 - 06:37 AM, said:

Switching the time of day causes a huge performance hit for many MWO players. IMO it is essential that PGI remove the dynamic change. I do think they could consider making all time of day and weather combinations available and just have them be static for entire matches, but I don't know how that would work behind the scenes.

Don't matches already start at random times of day, with weather dependent on that time-of-day setting? I would imagine it would be a simple matter (perhaps even simpler than assigning every map a unique time of day), to remove the "change" trigger, or move it to something like 35 minutes, so it happens after any and all matches are well over, effectively removing it without changing the coding very much. The only complaint I've heard about from anyone is the performance hit, and I still think it presents an interesting challenge for everyone to be universally handicapped and have to adapt to their situation by fighting with heat and/or night vision for a match. It's one of the reasons I enjoy Terra Therma: having a harder time regulating your heat, but having that effect universally applied to both teams and all tech trees; or Frozen City (Classic): having to use Heat Vision for the entire match if you want any hope of seeing anything.