85 replies to this topic

[Brauer]

C337Skymaster, on 10 February 2021 - 06:49 AM, said:

Don't matches already start at random times of day, with weather dependent on that time-of-day setting? I would imagine it would be a simple matter (perhaps even simpler than assigning every map a unique time of day), to remove the "change" trigger, or move it to something like 35 minutes, so it happens after any and all matches are well over, effectively removing it without changing the coding very much. The only complaint I've heard about from anyone is the performance hit, and I still think it presents an interesting challenge for everyone to be universally handicapped and have to adapt to their situation by fighting with heat and/or night vision for a match. It's one of the reasons I enjoy Terra Therma: having a harder time regulating your heat, but having that effect universally applied to both teams and all tech trees; or Frozen City (Classic): having to use Heat Vision for the entire match if you want any hope of seeing anything.

This might be possible, I'm not a programmer and haven't dug through MWO's code is all. I think having a set ToD for each match would be a good solution, but it looks like either PGI doesn't like that solution, or PGI wasn't able to implement that solution.

[Hellfire666]

It only took how many years to finally get this "fixed"?

This is just removing a bugged feature, then selling it to us as a NEW feature!

They didn't fix anything, they just stripped yet ANOTHER part of the game out and called it done rather than actually FIX anything.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Hellfire666, on 10 February 2021 - 07:05 AM, said:

It only took how many years to finally get this "fixed"?

This is just removing a bugged feature, then selling it to us as a NEW feature!

They didn't fix anything, they just stripped yet ANOTHER part of the game out and called it done rather than actually FIX anything.

And this is a bad thing, why, exactly? We know they're strapped for resources, and that's the best they can get with what they have. From my perspective, it's a small improvement, and that is better than none at all. With possibly multiple versions for different daytimes/weather conditions down the line, I'm fine with how things evolve.
I will reckon their accomplishments against their Roadmap later this year.

[D V Devnull]

InnerSphereNews, on 09 February 2021 - 05:48 PM, said:

Greetings Mechwarrior,

We are going to try something new here!
Today I am going to post a few previews of Items in the upcoming patch.
That way you can check out the changes sooner!
Keep in mind things can change between now and patch day (Feb 16th)if bugs are discovered. (See Bellow for example)
Also, the preview items may not provide complete details or explanations.
We may not do this every patch.

Glad to see that you're trying something new with these previews. This is something which I welcome in order to be able to start adjusting to things that are coming. Please make sure that you do NOT let anyone ever cause you to feel deterred from doing these Upcoming Patch Release Previews for the players to see. They are much appreciated by people, and not done in vain at all. It sort of reminds me of the Countdowns which we used to have before Mech Releases occurred, which also happened to be a welcome feature. I hope to see the return of that too, upon when the next New Mech gets added to MWO in the future.

That said... I do have some extra thoughts, and I decided to avoid quote walls, instead opting to respond directly to the original posting, because I don't want my own reply to look like an overloaded spaghetti mess. Here comes...

InnerSphereNews, on 09 February 2021 - 05:48 PM, said:

First Item:
Static Time of Day in 6 maps that had Dynamic Time of Day.

NOTES:

• These time of day settings were chosen for this patch based on the existing lighting.
  
• Our choices were based on visibility first and atmosphere second.
  
• Please understand that they will likely be further adjusted in Q2-Q3 Goals.
  
• We hope to be able to offer more variety in the future. (Q4 Goals)
  
• We are open to your feedback, but feedback won't affect this patch. (Squad Goals)

Forest Colony - 10:00 AM
Sunny skies with 19% humidity and a 100% chance of combat.
<<< image from https://static.mwomercs.com/img/news/media/c39826065f3b150cf79619ae7392ca93.jpg >>>


Frozen City - 08:00 AM
Cold and windy conditions. Blowing snow reduces visibility. Overheating your mech is a terrible way to stay warm.
<<< image from https://static.mwomercs.com/img/news/media/10c049a0a0109096382e495f5ea3fda0.jpg >>>


River City - 10:00 AM
Sunny Day with several fires affecting visibility. Go directly to the citadel and fight. This is the way.
<<< image from https://static.mwomercs.com/img/news/media/aa23ad531480119dfe486b268deca058.jpg >>>


Polar Highlands - 08:00 AM
Well, it's not as bright as Hibernal Rift so that's a plus. Could use more cover (Q2-Q3 Map improvements).
<<< image from https://static.mwomercs.com/img/news/media/6f5e23a2295c6861a9e0c56bfaf87edb.jpg >>>


Viridian Bog - 02:00 PM
The afternoon sun has burned off the heavy fog you might expect to find in a bog. On the plus side, it still smells like skunk cabbage.
<<< image from https://static.mwomercs.com/img/news/media/a858a6e90e1a9f16d46f4373133f257f.jpg >>>


Crimson Straight - 06:45 PM
The street lights are on. Time to go home for dinner. Enjoy the nightlife by shooting the lights out in Crimson Straight.
<<< image from https://static.mwomercs.com/img/news/media/1dbf579c85d79d52a3496fbdf9cf4991.jpg >>>

It's good that you're stopping the potentially deadly fatal lag which many players experience. I know it has caused me some terrible times as well from those moments where everything locked up slightly, and keeping the laggy Time-Of-Day Changer would have continued to push out a lot of people who simply can not buy new hardware. So, this may actually help bring players back who were unable to play for a while because their computer would not handle it.

However, it has to be said that I will personally miss the Night Versions of four of those Maps being available to play on. If possible, please introduce separate Night Versions of...

• Forest Colony
  
• River City
  
• Polar Highlands
  
• Viridian Bog

...in the future? I will most certainly appreciate seeing the returns of the starry sky in the first three instances, and the rainy thunderstorm in that last one.

Also, what's to be said of Caustic Valley and the whole Time-Of-Day situation there? Is it remaining around for now, or are there adjustments being made there too?

InnerSphereNews, on 09 February 2021 - 05:48 PM, said:

This just in... BOLT-ON! ...STAY-ON!.. KNOCK-ON!

Just as I am about to post this I am reminded why we don't make patch notes until the patch is done in QA. So apparently we have an issue where the arm can be destroyed but the bolt-on stays put! We have a fix already so stay tuned tomorrow to see if the Bolt-on, Stay-on, Knock-on, can get its Fix-on and we can get this Patch-on.

<<< image from https://static.mwomercs.com/img/news/media/e5286a9e6a9999348f0a2ab81864723e.png >>>

That is one interesting goofy Bug which you have on display there. I suppose one could even say it's kind of comedic in nature, as it leaves some people with their heads tilted a tad sideways, and they have to wonder what happened to leave something hanging in mid-air there.

Will we get to see more of these bloopers in the future? It's always worth having funny moments to enjoy, and there are likely those in the Community who also would enjoy seeing some silly moments.

This brings me to the super-serious part of my thoughts... We have multiple crowds on the extremes, and it's not a good idea to make several of these crowds angry at the same time. To give you a quick rundown...

• One crowd wants Bolt-Ons to be staying on their Mechs during gameplay, but seems to have no sympathy for those who do not like this change.
  
• The second crowd wants those Bolt-Ons to fall off without exception when hit, but seems to equally lack understanding for those who do like this change.
  
• Another group wants them to fall off after a delay measured in a percentage in terms of Damage that someone's Mech takes, but this brings into question where the best point is for that snap-off effect to happen.
  
• There's a fourth pack of people who wants an On/Off Switch as to whether they see these things at all, but doesn't understand how discriminatory that would be against people who use Bolt-Ons in order to misdirect and draw attention. It would actually make hitting an opponent too easy for people who don't allow Bolt-Ons to display, but they aren't giving me the impression that they get this.
  
• A fifth set of people has rather valid concerns related to Game Balance and HitBox Dead Zone Areas that could become an exploit which should not have to be contended with. That kind of issue may ultimately result in needing additional rules to prevent Equipping certain particular Bolt-Ons to specific OmniPod parts. Perhaps this is one spot where a Modeling Team may have to get involved.
  
• A sixth bunch (which I'm part of) wants a Per-Mech Selectable Option in the Bolt-Ons Equip Screen to choose whether or not a Mech would have its' own Bolt-Ons stay connected when they're hit. While this can admittedly have its' own ramifications, it also gives players a choice, and it seems like people in this day and era do better when they are given some kind of option to choose.

...and I may not be the ultimate expert authority (Who really ever is? Sometimes the best we can do is not always perfect.) on Game Balance myself, but I think going with the option presented by that Sixth Crowd might have the best chance of making most of those groups of people happy. I do get that you may have wanted to push out a change quickly, but it might not be the best idea at this time to flatly rush it into the game. Please hold this Bolt-Ons Change for the moment, take it to a PTS for people to help work out the issues and give feedback for your use, and then bring it to the Main Live Game when it has been evolved into something that is more Bug-free and not questioned so heavily as the current Edition happens to be. That way, you end up with more happy players in the Community upon release, and less of unwanted backlash that makes it hard to help MWO flourish. I think we can agree that it would be best to have as many players made happy as can possibly be, right?

InnerSphereNews, on 09 February 2021 - 05:48 PM, said:

It's going to be an interesting year
The MechWarrior Online Team

It definitely will be, and I'm looking forward with some hope that I can help in making it as positive as possible.



~D. V. "trying to help make the February 2021 Patch be welcomed better than previous ones have" Devnull





[Repair Edit by the Post Author around 1 Hour 40 Minutes later due to a Serious Formatting Problem... They really hope they have fixed it...]

Edited by D V Devnull, 10 February 2021 - 09:04 AM.

[Kodan Black]

Hellfire666, on 10 February 2021 - 07:05 AM, said:

It only took how many years to finally get this "fixed"?

This is just removing a bugged feature, then selling it to us as a NEW feature!

They didn't fix anything, they just stripped yet ANOTHER part of the game out and called it done rather than actually FIX anything.

They explicitly have stated it isn't done. Both in prior threads and this one. They are doing this now to mitigate a situation that players are unhappy with until it can get a more thorough examination. There are limited resources so they roll out a short-term improvement while looking at a long-term solution.

[yrrot]

C337Skymaster, on 10 February 2021 - 06:49 AM, said:

Don't matches already start at random times of day, with weather dependent on that time-of-day setting? I would imagine it would be a simple matter (perhaps even simpler than assigning every map a unique time of day), to remove the "change" trigger, or move it to something like 35 minutes, so it happens after any and all matches are well over, effectively removing it without changing the coding very much. The only complaint I've heard about from anyone is the performance hit, and I still think it presents an interesting challenge for everyone to be universally handicapped and have to adapt to their situation by fighting with heat and/or night vision for a match. It's one of the reasons I enjoy Terra Therma: having a harder time regulating your heat, but having that effect universally applied to both teams and all tech trees; or Frozen City (Classic): having to use Heat Vision for the entire match if you want any hope of seeing anything.

They aren't random. Maps that have dynamic time of day start at a fixed time and progress at a set pace through the ToD. There are different *versions* of maps with different, static ToD--ie frozen city night.

They've mentioned the plan to possibly get it so these can be randomly set at the start of the match, but use a static ToD for the whole thing. Daeron and Matt don't know how complex it will be, or if it requires baking in different versions of the map. It needs a tech review to see what options they have beyond removing dynamic ToD for now.

[Navid A1]

yrrot, on 10 February 2021 - 06:22 AM, said:

So, do comp players not know where to shoot on the base mech model? Are they incapable of ignoring the additional geometry? That's honestly the exact opposite end of the skill spectrum that boltons should even impact.

*New* players getting a "hit" displayed because it hit a bolton would certainly be a problem, but experienced players? Psh, git gud. If there's boltons that are a huge issue for comp (for some reason?), comp should ban them or all boltons.

PGI already is planning to strip the boltons of collision mesh all together later as they get the resources to do so. And this is definitely not a PGI-originated idea. People have been complaining about it since boltons were made to fall off on one touch in the first place.

Experienced players know where to shoot. That's precisely why this is a problem since there are bolt-ons that summon "hollow" mesh parts that are identical to weapons.

I can post screenshots, yet since I know this change will go through regardless of what we are saying and will never change, I won't post here. Less people know about such things the better. I have just sent those as PMs to Daeron and Matt as examples on how messed up things will get.

Also, I see what you did there... psh... you need visibility on maps?.. just git gud.... nice try!

Edited by Navid A1, 10 February 2021 - 08:00 AM.

[yrrot]

Navid A1, on 10 February 2021 - 07:57 AM, said:

Experienced players know where to shoot. That's precisely why this is a problem since there are bolt-ons that summon "hollow" mesh parts that are identical to weapons.

I can post screenshots, yet since I know this change will go through regardless of what we are saying and will never change, I won't post here. Less people know about such things the better. I have just sent those as PMs to Daeron and Matt as examples on how messed up things will get.

Also, I see what you did there... psh... you need visibility on maps?.. just git gud.... nice try!

So it is a problem of *some* boltons causing the additional weapon geometry to spawn in, even if the mech doesn't have the weapon? If that's the case, it's a bug with those boltons, not an issue with this change. They'd be better off removing the offending boltons until they are fixed.

[w0qj]

As another franchise character said:

A: "We need a system where the politicians sit down and discuss the problem. Agree what's in the best interests of all the people, and do it."
P: "That's exactly what they do, the trouble is that people don't always agree."
A: "Then they should be made to."
P: "By whom? Who's going to make them?"
A: "... Someone wise."

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Seriously, a lot of online games simply sound out its player-base's opinions, and the game maker decides what to do.
Properly done (and game balanced), players would respect the game maker's decisions.

I personally feel that MWO/PGI in trying to follow player-base's diverse wishes/opinions would be an exercise in frustration, simply because the MWO player-base itself cannot come to a consensus as a group on any of the major issues. This very forum thread is a case study for this.

We need a good game maker bringing their own good ideas and good decisions on game design changes & game balancing.
I personally would respect any game maker who does this!

D V Devnull, on 10 February 2021 - 07:25 AM, said:

...

• One crowd wants Bolt-Ons to be staying on their Mechs during gameplay, but seems to have no sympathy for those who do not like this change.
  
• The second crowd wants those Bolt-Ons to fall off without exception when hit, but seems to equally lack understanding for those who do like this change.
  
• Another group wants them to fall off after a delay measured in a percentage in terms of Damage that someone's Mech takes, but this brings into question where the best point is for that snap-off effect to happen.
  
• There's a fourth pack of people who wants an On/Off Switch as to whether they see these things at all, but doesn't understand how discriminatory that would be against people who use Bolt-Ons in order to misdirect and draw attention. It would actually make hitting an opponent too easy for people who don't allow Bolt-Ons to display, but they aren't giving me the impression that they get this.
  
• A fifth set of people has rather valid concerns related to Game Balance and HitBox Dead Zone Areas that could become an exploit which should not have to be contended with. That kind of issue may ultimately result in needing additional rules to prevent Equipping certain particular Bolt-Ons to specific OmniPod parts. Perhaps this is one spot where a Modeling Team may have to get involved.
  
• A sixth bunch (which I'm part of) wants a Per-Mech Selectable Option in the Bolt-Ons Equip Screen to choose whether or not a Mech would have its' own Bolt-Ons stay connected when they're hit. While this can admittedly have its' own ramifications, it also gives players a choice, and it seems like people in this day and era do better when they are given some kind of option to choose.

...

Edited by w0qj, 10 February 2021 - 08:17 AM.

[TercieI]

Variable map times are good.

Changing mid-match leading to lag* is bad.

This is the wrong solution. Just turn off the shifting mid-game, leave the random start times. They lead to good variety.

*It would be fine if it didn't cause this problem too.

Edited by TercieI, 10 February 2021 - 08:27 AM.

[MechWarrior5782621]

There should be an option to ban bolt-ons in comp play. I think that's a good compromise that would keep everyone reasonably happy.

The time of day change is a good one.

When the maps are updated, I hope PGI will take out some of the tiny rocks and crap, which somehow manage to stop mechs in their tracks.

[Navid A1]

yrrot, on 10 February 2021 - 08:13 AM, said:

So it is a problem of *some* boltons causing the additional weapon geometry to spawn in, even if the mech doesn't have the weapon? If that's the case, it's a bug with those boltons, not an issue with this change. They'd be better off removing the offending boltons until they are fixed.

A proper fix would be removing them, since they are designed to summon those parts since they are attached to them.
It's not a bug, it's a feature.

Same problem with huge shoulder pads and/or other pieces on some mechs, visually hiding torso hitboxes.

Other problems regarding protruding "backpacks" that can be seen from cover while the rest of the mech is not visible, faking a mech model and baiting a shot that costs heat and ammo.

As I said before, it would be fine if bolt-ons fell off if the component they are attached to take a certain amount of damage. You can still use them to bait shots, yet you can do it once or twice, and not indefinitely.

Edited by Navid A1, 10 February 2021 - 09:28 AM.

[ThomasAH]

Raining Fire, on 09 February 2021 - 08:12 PM, said:

The lights look great - can they actually be shot out?

Yes, but only with ballistic weapons. AC/2 or machine guns are best for this

[C337Skymaster]

yrrot, on 10 February 2021 - 07:56 AM, said:

They aren't random. Maps that have dynamic time of day start at a fixed time and progress at a set pace through the ToD. There are different *versions* of maps with different, static ToD--ie frozen city night.

They've mentioned the plan to possibly get it so these can be randomly set at the start of the match, but use a static ToD for the whole thing. Daeron and Matt don't know how complex it will be, or if it requires baking in different versions of the map. It needs a tech review to see what options they have beyond removing dynamic ToD for now.

You sure? Most of my issues have been on River City, so I'm drawing my examples from there, but I could have sworn that some matches start during the day, and play through sunset, while others start at night and play through sunrise. Still others start in the morning and are day all match (thus no time-of-day change, and no framerate hiccup, although those could be the 4 minute stomps, too...). My thoughts were to continue having some matches start at night, and some continue to start at various times of day, as they currently do (to my recollection), and just extend the sunrise/sunset trigger to some ridiculously long time after even Faction matches on those maps would be over and done with.

[Steve Pryde]

TercieI, on 10 February 2021 - 08:27 AM, said:

Variable map times are good.

Changing mid-match leading to lag* is bad.

This is the wrong solution. Just turn off the shifting mid-game, leave the random start times. They lead to good variety.

*It would be fine if it didn't cause this problem too.

Write them this on Twitter. I think that works better than posting it into the forum.

But i'm totally with you. Just make different versions of the maps.

[D V Devnull]

Brauer, on 10 February 2021 - 06:28 AM, said:

You're understating the bolton problem here. Improperly implemented permanent boltons will create a P2W problem at ALL levels of the game, including super casual solo QP drops, and will negatively impact everyone. PGI needs to take their time and do this right, either by making boltons take damage or by adding a "display boltons - yes/no" toggle to the options.

Lockheed_, on 10 February 2021 - 07:19 AM, said:

I am so glad that I waited to buy MC and Bolt-ons now that the elitist cry babies finally became aware of a feature that has been talked about for months and was already announced to be included in this patch weeks ago.

Fainting Goat, on 10 February 2021 - 09:00 AM, said:

There should be an option to ban bolt-ons in comp play. I think that's a good compromise that would keep everyone reasonably happy.

yrrot, on 10 February 2021 - 08:13 AM, said:

So it is a problem of *some* boltons causing the additional weapon geometry to spawn in, even if the mech doesn't have the weapon? If that's the case, it's a bug with those boltons, not an issue with this change. They'd be better off removing the offending boltons until they are fixed.

Navid A1, on 10 February 2021 - 09:27 AM, said:

A proper fix would be removing them, since they are designed to summon those parts since they are attached to them.
It's not a bug, it's a feature.

Same problem with huge shoulder pads and/or other pieces on some mechs, visually hiding torso hitboxes.

Other problems regarding protruding "backpacks" that can be seen from cover while the rest of the mech is not visible, faking a mech model and baiting a shot that costs heat and ammo.

As I said before, it would be fine if bolt-ons fell off if the component they are attached to take a certain amount of damage. You can still use them to bait shots, yet you can do it once or twice, and not indefinitely.

Please calm down, people... This may be a rather hot topic, but staying heated instead of discussing calmly won't get anyone to anywhere enjoyable in any reasonable order. Try taking a look at the third section of my earlier post (https://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/279202-february-patch-notes-preview/page__view__findpost__p__6375266) and note the option that I happen to present towards the end of it. Now, I am going to say right this minute that it's not a perfect option, and thanks to 'Navid A1' posting during my typing this and my realization that someone else said something similar, things have come together as to make me figure out an improved version.

For that Improved Version of an Idea on how Bolt-Ons should function, I think we can agree on making it a multi-pronged process...

• If a Bolt-On would conflict in any way with the currently selected Mech's geometry, it is blocked from being Equipped at all. We already have several Mechs where this happens to apply, including the Atlas which has special pre-existing Variants including a Loyalty Edition available. Apparently this effect also needs to be added to the Blood Asp OmniPods which do not normally have those so-called "bunny ear mounts" present. Sadly, I would not be surprised if there are more Mechs needing similar treatment.
  
• In the MechLab where the player does the Bolt-On Equip work, there should be a checkbox named something like "Retain Bolt-Ons On Armored Component" or "Fall Off When No Armor Left" present, which will do exactly that if the player's Mech still has any Armor present on a particular Component of the Mech's body.
  
• Once out on the battlefields, only if the checkbox is not selected, then any hit would immediately discard the Bolt-On(s) attached to the zone where the Mech was hit. This part would effectively be like the old system which we have now, but provide more options as noted in these further steps for other people.
  
• On the converse, if the checkbox is enabled, then the Bolt-On(s) will remain attached until the player has no Armor left on a particular Component of the Mech's body, finally falling off after that.
  
• If the Bolt-On itself was meant to remain attached, but it takes too many (two really is too low, should allow for at least ten) separate direct hits, regardless of the amount of Damage that is dealt by each hit, then the particular Bolt-On automatically falls off with a Sound & Notification which tells the player that their Bolt-On has taken excessive damage and will no longer stay attached.
  
• Regardless of any of the above, Incoming Damage that would normally have successfully hit a Mech Component will still get dealt, as the Damage will both strike the Bolt-On and pass through to the Mech as well.

...because we can essentially assume under some crazy law of physics with the vanity Bolt-On equipment that it will somehow be rooted down to the deepest piece of Armor that happens to be present on a Mech at the time. This means that with most situations, a player will have to then strip off all that Armor in order to knock off the Bolt-On which they desire to burn away, if it doesn't happen that they somehow knock off the Bolt-On anyway by other means in the meantime. With this method of tuning, it also means that the Bolt-On still respects avoiding being some kind of extra shielding for the Mech that the player is using.


So... What do you all think? Would this be something suitable which we can all agree on, and therefore something which we would forward to 'Matt Newman' & 'Daeron Katz' as a Potential Solution which they can use to make the most people happy that they possibly can?

~D. V. "trying to make a solution for Bolt-Ons which will connect with the wishes of the most people that it can" Devnull




[Quick Edit by the Post Author for an issue with Member Names and formatting...]

Edited by D V Devnull, 10 February 2021 - 10:34 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Sorry, late to the party here, but can someone tell me why they are going with a single set time of day for the identified maps, rather than putting different versions of the map into play ala Classic Frozen City Day and Frozen City Night? I mean why not put a Bog: Daytime map and a Bog: nighttime map both into the rotation rather than a single one?

Also, permanent bolt-ons are going to cause a huge issue for players that actually try to hit specific areas of the target via the paper doll. I may be a scrub who always shoots center of mass because it is beyond my mouse control to do otherwise most of the time, but a lot of players actually try to shoot specific areas of the mech. There are some pretty big bolt-ons and people are going to shoot at them no matter what. Example: if that Zeus your shooting has giant fins (a bolt on) sticking out its back a lot of players are going to reasonably think "shoot those fins to hit the rear torsos" and they will be doing zero damage instead. There are a lot of bolt-ons like that.

[Papa Varken]

C337Skymaster, on 10 February 2021 - 04:18 AM, said:

Have you tried using Heat Vision on those maps? The map then becomes white targets on a black background, and buildings get whiter on that black background as they get closer. That's one of the things I love about Frozen City (Classic), is that you can't see anything without using heat vision (whether you have poor eyesight or not), and it handicaps everybody equally. Unfortunately, if there's an option to turn it off for disabled people, then everybody's going to turn it off. It will give a clear sniper shot across the map, and anyone who kept it on won't be able to see to return fire. So it'll automatically mandate turning off all weather effects, which will ruin that aspect of the experience.

Completely agree with FC (Classic) Heat Vision just about works across most of the combat paths; revamped FC it is useless, just because of the ranges, but I do appreciate your guidance, especially for those who never use H or N modes

If everyone turns it off, then nobody is disadvantaged, leaving it on sadly becomes discriminatory, that's the whole point in making systems accessible to all. I know this never used to be an issue in gaming, but as with other aspects of life and the balancing of people's rights, it needs to be considered or someone will end up bringing legal action. Personally I have no sight impairment, but I do work with systems that have to now take into account obscurement and opacity to ensure everyone has fair access to online material. The another solution would be to move another time of day or weather with a lesser impact on visibility if everyone could still have an active part to play in the drop.

[C337Skymaster]

DaddyPig, on 10 February 2021 - 10:59 AM, said:

Completely agree with FC (Classic) Heat Vision just about works across most of the combat paths; revamped FC it is useless, just because of the ranges, but I do appreciate your guidance, especially for those who never use H or N modes

If everyone turns it off, then nobody is disadvantaged, leaving it on sadly becomes discriminatory, that's the whole point in making systems accessible to all. I know this never used to be an issue in gaming, but as with other aspects of life and the balancing of people's rights, it needs to be considered or someone will end up bringing legal action. Personally I have no sight impairment, but I do work with systems that have to now take into account obscurement and opacity to ensure everyone has fair access to online material. The another solution would be to move another time of day or weather with a lesser impact on visibility if everyone could still have an active part to play in the drop.

If everyone is equally blinded, though, and the alternate vision methods provide high contrast, wouldn't that alleviate the vision impairment concern? If the visibility is artificially reduced due to weather or nighttime effects, the reduced visibility of the vision enhancement systems no longer provides a major handicap, since it doesn't matter WHAT vision system you use, you can't see at those ranges, period. Otherwise, this is likely the reason distant 'mechs show up as black, regardless of the camo scheme employed: so they'll show up against a white background. I notice particular issue with sniping over long ranges in low visibility on River City at night. The revamped Frozen City doesn't have nearly the severe weather effect that the original daytime version of the map had, and I've never had any trouble sniping across the map at dark shadows peeking out from behind the white buildings on a white background (black on white = contrast). I do almost wish that they had retained the extremely low visibility, though, even when they expanded the map. It would make sniping much more difficult, and require teamwork to accomplish (one person at close-range to get a target lock and spot the target for the sniper, and the sniper would have to respond to communication about when the target was and wasn't viable). It'd also make scouting much more important: a giant map where you can't see anyone: you need scouts to go find the enemy, get locks, identify them to the rest of the team, and guide the team to where they need to be in order to win the fight. Kind of like the MW2:Mercs mission where you're running off into a sand storm to spot targets for an Arrow IV artillery battery that can't see 5 feet in front of them to line up their own targets.

If everyone turns everything off that handicaps shooting their opponents, then pretty soon we'll all be playing on those rainbow colored test maps, and the game will lose all of its flavor...

Edited by C337Skymaster, 10 February 2021 - 11:18 AM.

[MechWarrior5782621]

D V Devnull, on 10 February 2021 - 10:31 AM, said:

Please calm down, people... This may be a rather hot topic, but staying heated instead of discussing calmly won't get anyone to anywhere enjoyable in any reasonable order. Try taking a look at the third section of my earlier post (https://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/279202-february-patch-notes-preview/page__view__findpost__p__6375266) and note the option that I happen to present towards the end of it. Now, I am going to say right this minute that it's not a perfect option, and thanks to 'Navid A1' posting during my typing this and my realization that someone else said something similar, things have come together as to make me figure out an improved version.

For that Improved Version of an Idea on how Bolt-Ons should function, I think we can agree on making it a multi-pronged process...

• If a Bolt-On would conflict in any way with the currently selected Mech's geometry, it is blocked from being Equipped at all. We already have several Mechs where this happens to apply, including the Atlas which has special pre-existing Variants including a Loyalty Edition available. Apparently this effect also needs to be added to the Blood Asp OmniPods which do not normally have those so-called "bunny ear mounts" present. Sadly, I would not be surprised if there are more Mechs needing similar treatment.
  
• In the MechLab where the player does the Bolt-On Equip work, there should be a checkbox named something like "Retain Bolt-Ons On Armored Component" or "Fall Off When No Armor Left" present, which will do exactly that if the player's Mech still has any Armor present on a particular Component of the Mech's body.
  
• Once out on the battlefields, only if the checkbox is not selected, then any hit would immediately discard the Bolt-On(s) attached to the zone where the Mech was hit. This part would effectively be like the old system which we have now, but provide more options as noted in these further steps for other people.
  
• On the converse, if the checkbox is enabled, then the Bolt-On(s) will remain attached until the player has no Armor left on a particular Component of the Mech's body, finally falling off after that.
  
• If the Bolt-On itself was meant to remain attached, but it takes too many (two really is too low, should allow for at least ten) separate direct hits, regardless of the amount of Damage that is dealt by each hit, then the particular Bolt-On automatically falls off with a Sound & Notification which tells the player that their Bolt-On has taken excessive damage and will no longer stay attached.
  
• Regardless of any of the above, Incoming Damage that would normally have successfully hit a Mech Component will still get dealt, as the Damage will both strike the Bolt-On and pass through to the Mech as well.

...because we can essentially assume under some crazy law of physics with the vanity Bolt-On equipment that it will somehow be rooted down to the deepest piece of Armor that happens to be present on a Mech at the time. This means that with most situations, a player will have to then strip off all that Armor in order to knock off the Bolt-On which they desire to burn away, if it doesn't happen that they somehow knock off the Bolt-On anyway by other means in the meantime. With this method of tuning, it also means that the Bolt-On still respects avoiding being some kind of extra shielding for the Mech that the player is using.



So... What do you all think? Would this be something suitable which we can all agree on, and therefore something which we would forward to 'Matt Newman' & 'Daeron Katz' as a Potential Solution which they can use to make the most people happy that they possibly can?

~D. V. "trying to make a solution for Bolt-Ons which will connect with the wishes of the most people that it can" Devnull




[Quick Edit by the Post Author for an issue with Member Names and formatting...]

I think u need to calm down, and my suggestion was simpler & better