132 replies to this topic

[Heavy Money]

RickySpanish, on 22 February 2021 - 10:19 AM, said:

Your last point really stood out to me, and it suggests that you don't know what you're talking about. The jump jet quirks are miniscule, they really don't do much for the 'Mech. You need to fill out 6 jump jets before you see much of a difference at all and that's excessive tonnage and space wasted. Not to mention that the geometry of VGL blows for pop tarting, since the lower energy hardpoints in the torso must be exposed.

How's the Geometry on the other mechs in this comparison for poptarting? I assume they all have much better geo than the vapor eagle, otherwise why does the vapor eagle get to be so much better at the rest?

[Gagis]

Heavy Money, on 22 February 2021 - 12:45 PM, said:

How's the Geometry on the other mechs in this comparison for poptarting? I assume they all have much better geo than the vapor eagle, otherwise why does the vapor eagle get to be so much better at the rest?

Huntsman is similar to VGL with better hardpoint geometry. It has a fixed engine, fixed crit distribution and fixed more jump jets than it needs so it ends up being limited by lack of weapons, ammo or heat sinks. Like, when VGL runs 3ERPPC, Huntsman runs 2, when VGL runs 2ATM12+ATM9, Huntsman runs 3x9, when VGL runs 2UAC10+ERPPC, Huntsman runs 2UAC10. The better geometry is not enough to make up for the reduced firepower.

Still a good mech tho. Would probably be the best clan medium if VGL suddenly disappeared.

Edited by Gagis, 22 February 2021 - 12:53 PM.

[Haipyng]

Gagis, on 22 February 2021 - 12:50 PM, said:

Huntsman is similar to VGL with better hardpoint geometry. It has a fixed engine, fixed crit distribution and fixed more jump jets than it needs so it ends up being limited by lack of weapons, ammo or heat sinks. Like, when VGL runs 3ERPPC, Huntsman runs 2, when VGL runs 2ATM12+ATM9, Huntsman runs 3x9, when VGL runs 2UAC10+ERPPC, Huntsman runs 2UAC10. The better geometry is not enough to make up for the reduced firepower.

Still a good mech tho. Would probably be the best clan medium if VGL suddenly disappeared.

Sort of the problem trying to balance down. There will always be one above the rest that needs to be nerfed down. Lets get the Fleas and Locusts with the stealth armor nerfed down, or the Huntsman, or Piranha, or LRM boats, or whatever else is the flavor of the weak. We only have several hundred non-competitive models that need to be fixed. Like we really need to add to that number with what is often a heavy handed nerf.

Edited by Haipyng, 22 February 2021 - 06:26 PM.

[Heavy Money]

Haipyng, on 22 February 2021 - 05:40 PM, said:

Sort of the problem trying to balance down. There will always be one above the rest that needs to be nerfed down. Lets get the Fleas and Locusts with the stealth armor nerfed down, or the Huntsman, or Piranha, or LRM boats, or whatever else is the flavor of the weak. We only have several hundred non-competitive models that need to be fixed. Like we really need to add to that number with what is often a heavy handed nerf.

To what degree would you apply that logic? If there was a mech that just dealt double damage, would you say the same thing?

[RickySpanish]

Heavy Money, on 22 February 2021 - 12:45 PM, said:

How's the Geometry on the other mechs in this comparison for poptarting? I assume they all have much better geo than the vapor eagle, otherwise why does the vapor eagle get to be so much better at the rest?

Huntsman is better for poptarting dakka IMO, it can run two UAC-10 in its shoulders which is much better than the Vapor Eagle's singular high torso mount + lower torso / arm combo. Yep you can do 2 UAC 5, UAC 10 in the VGL but Quickplay is quite unkind to tall medium 'Mechs below 80kph with disparate weapon velocities.

[crazytimes]

Gas Guzzler, on 22 February 2021 - 09:34 AM, said:

Without getting in the middle of your discussion (I agree with you on most points), you can run it on the Night Gyr with ECM and enough ammo for 1000+ damage games. I didn't think so, but after dropping with Saikyou for a while I caved and tried it. It's good.

UAC20 + 2x10 is fun. I started running it while skilling one expecting it to just be a troll build, but was pleasantly surprised. Hot, but that damage... and I hit my personal ability limit before the ammo runs out usually.

Back to the VGL... it's a cbill mech. Anyone can buy one. It's not like they are behind a gate and not available to most people, nor are they excessively represented generally. I remember when 4 man groups of RFL-IIC-2 was the meta for a few weeks and people wanted to nerf them.

[Grus]

Did everyone forget the splatman? With like 8 srm 6's?

[Seelenlos]

FupDup, on 18 February 2021 - 02:25 PM, said:

The mech does objectively stand above the majority of others, that much cannot be debated.

However, there's just not much we can nerf about it. The only quirks it has are some JJ quirks, which have no effect on its meta power level. The only other option is to nerf the agility, but even that probably won't do a whole lot because people already run the thing like a heavy anyways. You can't take away hardpoints because it needs all of them for its stock builds.

I think we may just need to just focus on improving bad robots, not necessarily up the VGL level but at least high enough that the waters get muddier and it doesn't stand quite as high above the rest of the roster.

Loadout-wise I think ATMs are due for some changes (namely, holy crap dat damage). VGL isn't the only mech that is good with them, but it does have the attributes to leverage them more effectively than other Clan mechs. There are plenty of other good loadouts like triple ERPPC but those aren't as obnoxious to fight against.

Wrong.
VE has an INATE instant PPC hit! It is the same as with Flea -50% coolddown and PPC Speed 100% !

[Curccu]

Seelenlos, on 06 September 2022 - 06:11 PM, said:

Wrong.
VE has an INATE instant PPC hit! It is the same as with Flea -50% coolddown and PPC Speed 100% !

Very relevant necro reply and VE has what?

[Gasboy]

Heavy Money, on 18 February 2021 - 02:28 PM, said:

Is Poptart even supposed to be a thing? Does that really exist in battletech lore or tabletop?

It's not relevant if it exists in Battletech lore or tabletop.

Poptarting is a MWO thing, a consequence of the game moving from turn based to real time. But it makes sense tactically. Face time is deadly, and the longer you face tank someone, the quicker your death will be. Popping out of no where, firing and disappearing again is a perfectly valid tactic that uses your range advantage and shots from unpredictable angles to harrass and possibly take down your opponent.

[Gasboy]

Curccu, on 06 September 2022 - 08:52 PM, said:

Very relevant necro reply and VE has what?

They may be referring to the hero chassis' +20% velocity quirk, I dunno.

[BellatorMonk]

Because....NASCAR!!!!!

[Ekson Valdez]

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