615 replies to this topic

[Daeron Katz]

Greetings MechWarriors!

The March Patch will include the first of our upcoming Weapons Balance passes. We're looking for your feedback on which weapons currently need the most attention.

While we are working closely with organized segments of the community, like the Gulag Discord group, we are also open to your feedback.

We are looking for specific and actionable items. Please avoid spamming opinions in this thread such as "get rid of LRMs" as it's non-constructive. Weapons balance will be an ongoing process, with multiple passes, and ongoing reviews and balance throughout the year as necessary.

Thank you!
The MechWarrior Online Team

[Tarl Cabot]

Remove minimum range from IS PPC series and LRMS. Each can have a greater curve then normal. In BT the weapons did damage, they simply were given a negative gunnery penalty, a - 1 for each hex under the minimum range.

For PPCs w/min range besides a reduced damage, there could also be feedback damage once under 90m (3 hexes).

PPCs are equipped with a Field Inhibitor to prevent feedback which could damage the firing unit's electronic systems. This inhibitor degrades the performance of the weapon at close ranges of less than 90 meters. Particularly daring warriors have been known to disengage the inhibitor and risk damage to their own machine when a target is at close range.

For IS LRMs, iirc it was both locking mechanism and the missiles not arming themselves until 180m (6 hexes). Inner Sphere LRM launchers achieve their superior range by firing at a ballistic launch angle, making them less accurate at close range. And IS LRMS could be hot-loaded but at accuracy expense.

The other item would be to increase the max range of Clan Pulse weapons from its current 45% ish to between 60% - 75% of optimal range.

Also IS Pulse Laser, increase its damage by 0.5 to 1.0 damage points.

Clan Small Pulse Lasers are fine, damage-wise. Their massive damage jump was beyond measure from their base value, while none of the IS Small Pulse received any love. The bold part is what people missed and PGI allowed that to run for almost 3 years.

• cSPL dmg/heat
  
• 
  
• Lore: 3 dmg / 2 heat
  
• 
  
• MWO June 2014: initially 3.4 dmg / 3.4 heat
  
• MWO July 2014: increased to 4.4 dmg / 3.4 heat
  
• MWO Nov 2014: Increased to 6.0 dmg / 3.0 heat
  
• MWO June 2017: Decrease to 4.0 dmg / 2.7 heat (heat is currently at 2.05)

MWO Dec 2014: Release of Community Warfare aka Faction Play

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 18 February 2021 - 06:19 PM.

[Krasnopesky]

I will give my feedback soon.

First edit

Inner Sphere weapons that are currently under-performing and need a buff:

• IS Small Laser - Increase damage and range
  
• IS ER Small Laser - Increase damage and range
  
• IS Small Pulse Laser - Increase damage and range
  
• IS Snub Nose PPC - Significantly reduce heat
  
• IS PPC - Outclassed by ERPPC, reduce heat and allow 3 without ghost heat
  
• IS Light PPC - Reduce heat and remove ghost heat
  
• IS Light Machine Gun - Increase damage, ammo and range
  
• Light Gauss Rifle - Buff damage, unlink from ghost heat so you can shoot 2 LGR + 1 or 2 PPCs
  
• IS Laser AMS - Reduce heat

Clan Weapons that are currently under-performing and need a buff:

• Clan Micro Pulse - Increase range and damage
  
• Clan Small Pulse - Increase range and damage
  
• Clan Light Machine Gun - Increase damage, ammo and range
  
• Clan Laser AMS - Reduce heat

There are more weapons that require a buff, but these are the most important in my opinion.

Edited by Krasnopesky, 18 February 2021 - 09:47 PM.

[Navid A1]

Here is the link to weapon change suggestions that were brought up by the "gulag" (a group of comp, casual, veteran and new MWO players)



Full proposal including the above mentioned weapon changes and other aspects, like mech mobility and Jump jets: https://www.dropbox....AG_v2.pptx?dl=0




1- First.... for the love of god... PLEASE fix side torso destruction penalty:









2- Weapon changes: https://i.imgur.com/fmsfJOw.png






3- In accordance with the above weapon changes these modifications to mech quirks would be required:
https://www.dropbox....11_30.docx?dl=0




4- Mech agility increase across the board, according to this proposal:
https://docs.google....#gid=1508912275



MASC: (NOTE: These changes complement the base agility increase for all mechs,... linked above)

• Reduce MASC fill-rate by 50% (from 0.09 to 0.045), leading to double active time
  
• Reduce accel/decel boost to x1.66 (instead of x 2)
  
• Reduce reticle shake and spread to 33% of current amount (-66%reduction)
  
• Increase redline threshold to 85 (from 75)

Legged mech speed cap:

• Consider increasing the legged speed cap to 60 kph (including speed retention nodes)

Also... Jump Jets:

• Current system:

• Solution:

Will update this post if something changes.

Edited by Navid A1, 15 March 2021 - 10:41 PM.

[My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ]

Buff larger MASCs.

[1911freak]

Just F’ing nerf light mechs and see where it goes. Literally weapons don’t matter when I light takes as much damage as a heavy and can physically trap an assault like a GD dropship.

[NienBall]

Things I would like to see:
Do away with the charge up time on the Gauss rifle so their fire rate mirrors that of PPCs and they can be a viable weapon again.

Introduction of the Clan HAG to counter the IS RACs and IS MML to counter Clan ATMs.

Speed up the lock time for non LOS LRM locks and buff them back to previous levels, even when they were at peak power in the game I never had an issue with being peppered to death by them and the only people I've ever seen complaining were those that didn't utilize terrain and instead charged headfirst into the open with slow mechs, and I feel a slight re-buff would make them helpful again as a long range counter to all the MRM and SRM boats that seem to dominate gameplay now.

AMS buff against close range missile salvos, SRM and MRM boats are about the only builds I encounter now when playing, I feel an AMS buff in that area would be an effective counter to them and easier to implement than nerfing missiles or buffing ballistics and energy weapons all back up again.

Shorten Clan Streak SRM reload times to match IS Streak times.

Increase standard and Heavy PPC velocities to match that of the ERPPC, remove splash damage affect from the Clan ERPPC and set it's damage to 12pts instead of 10. I know few are going to want Clan PPCs brought up to their tabletop power level but I think 12pts of direct damage is a better compromise than 10 + splash.

[UPnADAM]

Please for everything holy remove the charge mechanic on gauss and give them just a bit more HP

[yrrot]

I was going to bring up missile health, and it seems like the Gulag folks already included that in their sheet. I don't think these have been tuned since the last AMS changes when missiles were given different health per launcher.

Current stats make multiple AMS completely remove smaller volleys with ease (ATMs, cStreaks, etc). The Gulag's proposed values seem in line with what direction I would suggest, giving a slight nerf to IS LRMs and a slight buff to other missiles vs AMS.

Though, I would say that their proposed AMS range buff will give a need to review AMS range quirks (Corsair with 4 AMS and a range buff...).

[VonBruinwald]

• Flamers need the same damage/DPS as a light machinegun
  
• Snubs - Increase optimum to 360m (max range 720m) or reduce heat to 8
  
• IS-LBX-10 needs a velocity buff (to 1,330), currently velocity is slower than the 20
  
• Remove minimum range on Rocket Launchers!
  
• Reduce LAMS heat to 2.25
  
• Improve Command Console buffs to TC 6.5 level (currently at TC 4.5)
  
• Reduce Clan AC 10/20 bust size by 1 (not Ultras).
  
• REDUCE IS-LBX-20 TO 10 SLOTS! We've been asking for this since 2017 as we can't crit split.
  
• HEAVY GAUSS TO 10 SLOTS same issue but requires additional balance measures.

Quote

Additional balance measure for Heavy Gauss change:

• Reduce slots to 10 ¹
  
• Limit placement to ST's only ²
  
• Reduce charge limit/GH to 1 ³ (Apply +1 charge limit quirk to applicable assaults, i.e. Fafnir)

¹ Substitue for lack of crit-splitting which severely limits what mechs are capable of using it (also applies to LBX-20), mechs will be able to take an LFE to increase speed or alternatively free up tonnage/space for mechs to equip Heavy Gauss.




² Lore restriction and prevents a hypothetical issue with dual heavies in arms, easy to implement by copying code from IS CASE

³ Charge limit to prevent dual HG heavies dominating and fits lore of the recoil being enough to potentially knock over the firing mech. Makes sense that only certain mechs specifically designed/quirked for the purpose could handle firing two.

More to follow

GULAG FEEDBACK:

Reads as "Buff Laser Vomit, reduce UAC Jam, reduce GH penalties, increase GH limits, increase cooldown times" which translates to a more effective poking meta and less effective brawling. No idea why they felt the need to nerf the Flamer! LRM nerf hopefully applies to indirect fire but unspecified.

Not sure this is worth arguing given how it's likely already agreed.

Edited by VonBruinwald, 19 February 2021 - 02:29 AM.

[MyriadDigits]

For the love of whatever you believe in just listen to Krasnopesky and/or Navid A1. Please.

[FupDup]

All IS Gauss: Increase health, decrease explosion damage

Light Gauss Rifle: Increase damage to 10, nerf cooldown to 4 or 5 seconds.

PPC: Reduce heat to 9.

ERPPC: Reduce heat to 11.5.

SNPPC: Reduce heat to 8.

LPPC: Reduce cooldown to 3 seconds.

AC/5 and LB 5-X: Reduce cooldown to 1.5 seconds, increase velocity to 1500.

AC/10 and LB 10-X: Increase velocity to 1200.

AC/20 and LB 20-X: Increase velocity to 850, reduce cooldown to 3.5 seconds.

Rocket Launchers: Change them to fire only one missile per mouse click (or hold to fire continuously) The delay between each missile (cooldown) could be as high as 0.5 seconds, or a bit faster than that. In exchange, massively reduce spread, remove minimum range, and increase Heat Scale Limit.

LMG: Buff range to 300.

IS Machine Guns (all): Buff damage per bullet, reduce crit multipliers correspondingly (better anti-armor, less critting).

LAMS: Reduce heat for both factions, with IS getting the larger reduction. Increase range for both factions, with Clans getting the larger increase. It's kinda like how Clan lasers shoot further but hotter.

RAC/5: Reduce heat to 3.0 per second, increase jam bar size (make it fill up much slower), increase jam bar dissipation rate.

All ballistics: Ammo per ton buffed so you get 200 damage per ton (weapons that exceed this get to stay as they are).

AMS: Now benefits from Magazine Capacity in the skill tree.


Maybe more to come if I feel like it.

Edited by FupDup, 19 February 2021 - 03:01 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

Google Sheets version

> IS Autocannons are tuned. The rationale of the changes is to make AC20 more useful. Coming with more ammo, more velocity, and +1 Ghost Heat limit means it's easier to use.

> The AC10 is good, but either it plays like a weaker long-range AC20 that you shoot and shield, or with good quirks it plays like an automatic cannon the likes of AC5. Further reduction of Cooldown allows it to be more relevant.

> AC5 is weird, it's useful but not useful. So basic Cooldown reduction is done.

> AC2, in the light of the incoming rework is also buffed. It also has increased velocity for relevance to long-range.

> The Ultra Autocannons has been reworked. Now it doesn't jam, and is balanced around the double-shot. The problem lies with the randomness, that it can be feast or famine depending on the RN-Gods, and should they smile at you, you basically have 2x the AC that leads to staggering double DPS per unit. The point of this is to flatten the crests and reduce the troughs of damage output and hiding, that it still does good damage but now must present oneself more frequently for retaliation.

With this rework, though DPS is lower than before, the damage output is properly and rigidly calibrated, it offers a better and more consistent output on poke-builds, and is more rewarding with little opportunity cost. It doesn't have that frustration with the jamming, all the while having retained most of what makes it fun.

For consistency, the UACs are burst-fired now, with reduced upfront damage, this is because you literally can shoot it 2 to 3 times in a row. The UAC2 for example can now feel more like a machinegun.

> The LBXs has been reworked to frontload it's damage. I just don't see the point of LBXs, prior to the rework, it's basically just a more-spread autocannon. By frontloading damage, while retaining DPS, it becomes more useful mechanically. The LB20X also has reduced slots, this is to allow arm-mounts or with LFE torsi.

> The Rotary Cannons has been reworked extensively, no longer that they are chance-jamming but they jam immediately when fired at Redline. This offers predictable performance. There is also damage value and heat tweaking, the RAC5 previously was hot garbage now is colder and deals a bit more damage. The spread has been removed because it'll already spread because of the stream of the bullets, and the velocity is increased to match that of ACs, because it has no business having that low velocity for the amount of shots it fires. Yes it can be led with proper timing, but not while shooting a stream. The RAC5 offers slightly greater DPS and lower heat generation over the RAC2s, but the RAC2s excel in range. Heat Penalty is reduced by 25%, this is to make the use of exceeding RACs to be more comfortable.

> The Gauss Rifles are now a bit more sturdier due to more HP. Care has been done that the Gauss-PPC should make a comeback, but not the 2x Gauss + 2x PPC, because those were precisely the problem. Another change is that, they have increased heat, this is because the rest of the mix has become colder, and the tweaks shooting above GH Limit.

> The LGR in particular has it's damage more frontloaded as well. And the ranges has been increased to facilitate the GR's long-range role.

> The HGR is now restricted to 1 GH, this is to penalize the use of 2 HGRs, but this isn't really that hot. The output jumps from 6 to 8.4 heat, this is calibrated versus the AC20 that does 12 heat.

> Machine-Guns now have increased range and reduced spread, this is to make them more useful to heavier mechs as alternative to heavier mechs. The IS Machine Guns also have increased damage to make them competitive to Clan MG Boats. The Piranhas mind you needs Nega-Quirks though.

> The IS Lasers has been tuned. The ER Large Lasers have more damage for individual use, but the standard Large Laser has increased GH limit. The LPL also has increased damage.

> The Small Lasers and Micro Lasers have their damage more frontloaded.

> The IS PPCs has been cooled down because generally they are hot garbage. The SNPPC boasts the coldest PPC for brawling purposes, likewise the ERPPC has been put at a more tolerable level, it's useful at it's range now. The Standard PPCs are still pretty cold.These has their GH limit increased to be competitive to HPPCs.

> The LPPC has it's damage increased and CD Reduced, while heat penalty is also reduced. This is to make LPPCs more useful on their own, and would play better with Lights.

> The HPPC is the IS Gold Standard PPCs, it just have increased Velocity which is standard to the LPPC and PPCs, but it also has reduced Heat since it's the mechs quirked for it with heat that the HPPC excels the most.

> The Flamer has increased range and damage, this is to make it more useful on it's own. Now it has dropoff damage.

> The SRMs only get increased ammo/ton, and reduced spread. The Clan SRM6 is particularly atrocious, so it instead has equal spread with SRM4s, and is patterned to Pre-Buff IS spread, while IS SRMs themselves have reduced spread. This is to make the competitive.

> The Streak SRMs now no longer tracks bone, and instead uses the artemised SRM spread pattern, makes it more useful to heavier mechs and less useful to smaller mechs. It is also now streamfired to allow more reaction time for lights. And the IS SSRMs aside from same SRM damage of 2.15, they have their range increased to provide mechanical relevance.

> Rocket Launchers now have consistent ranges and no minimum range, and increased damage. But now it fires in burst. This allows rocket-launchers to have more longevity, and not need a minimum range because damage is no longer dealt instantaneously but over the course of 1s.

> The LRMs only get increased Velocity, this is to make them more useful long-range.

> The MRMs in particular have the lower MRM classes have their missiles consistently fire the same interval. The MRM10 in particular has reduced spread to make it competitive to SRM6s.

> The Clan AC is simply just atrocious. Yeah it could get more velocity, but it's just mechanically worse that the Ultras, why pick it? Approaching it like Clan ERPPC, now it's single-slug but deals spread damage, this provides utility over distances where the LBX would provide too much spread. It also comes reduced slots to be competitive over CUAC builds. For consistency, it has tweaked Ghost-Heat limit and penalties, this is because the single-slug nature of LBXs, such as the Dire-Wolf trying to boat 8x CAC5s.

> The Clan ERPPC in particular has its spread damage reduced, but also the heat. This reduces the DPS, but also the heat generation. that will help with mixing with other weapons. This makes landing shots a bit more rewarding due to less heat for pinpoint damage, but not too powerful for it's weight. The damage reduction also straight as direct nerf to 3x CERPPC builds.

> The Clan Lasers has been tuned as well. The Large lasers have a general damage buff, but the medium lasers have general damage nerf and reduced heat. This transfer the damage from the Medium Lasers to the Large Lasers, making them more useful alone with little detriment to Laser Vomit builds.

> The Clan Medium and Small Heavy Lasers also have reduced damage, but increased GH limit. The point of this is to reduce the general potency of Clan laser poke builds while at the same time making them ergonomic due to reduced heat. The Medium Pulses have increased damage, this is for relevance.

> The ATMs have a direct nerf in their close-range damage, and buff to their long range damage, this is because the use of ATM is too polarized to the high-risk high-reward sweet spot. Now it has more normalized damage, with no minimum range so that it's useful at all ranges, increased velocity to be useful at long range. It also has reduced heat/shot, which while somewhat proportional to the damage reduction of the close-range, damage, it is instead a net benefit to ATM's long range use.

> ATM heat and damage output is also given a nerf. The 3x ATM12 builds are directly nerfed by increasing heat penalty. For relevance, the ATM6 has it's CD and spread reduced, the ATM3 has it's heat, spread, and CD further reduced. The ATM3s has it's volley interval reduced for consistency, and instead given direct missile health boost.

> LAMS is heavily taxing to the heat dissipation. At 2.85 h/s, to a standard 10 DHS, that is 0.65 HPS above, that is basically a flamer at you when you're intercepting missile. At 1 HPS, the LAMs is at a comfortable level when not firing, you only need that much Heat dissipation when you're using 3.

> IS Case: -25% Crit Damage Reduction

There's little point in just taking CASE, it's not enough that it merely negates ammo-explosion because chances are, ammo is put on legs, and so a direct buff is in order; a 25% reduction in Crit Damage should increase longevity of something like an HGR equipped with it.

> STD Engine CT Structure Bonus: 30

There's just little point in taking STD engine in both faction. Clans have their superb XL Engine. The IS has more uses to it, but it's generally just overshadowed by LFE, and if it has any use it's mostly because of HGR, and the LB20X that shouldn't Have been doing it, the slots.

> Ammo/Ton Light Quirks

Just good to establish Ballistic Builds on Lights. Something like an AC10 should have good longevity to an Urbanmech, a simple +100% ammo/ton quirk would instantly make the AC10 on an urbie more useful because you can now allot more tonnage to something else.

> LRM IDF-Angle requires NARC/TAG
> Homing Missiles during NARC/TAG are Fire-and-Forget.

Should have been done from the get go. This makes NARC and TAG much more important, while LRMs less for leeching and passive play. The Fire-and-Forget function of NARC/TAG only applies while NARC and TAG is active, this is to allow Spotters to hold the lock for lurmers, all they need to do is acquire lock to launch.

EDITED:

- Redone the balancing.

Old Proposals

Spoiler

- ATM Speed: 280m/s
- ATM Damage: 2.4/2.0/1.6
- ATM Min Range: 0m
- ATM 3 Heat: 2.2
- ATM 6 Heat: 4
- ATM 9 Heat: 6.2
- ATM 12 Heat: 8
- ATM 3 Missile Health: 2
- ATM 3 Volley Interval: 0.05s
- ATM 6 Missile Health: 1.8
- ATM 9 Missile Health: 1.6
- ATM 12 Missile Health: 1.4

ATMs are just too damn powerful. It's wasteful to use at long ranges, and the deadzone is unfun mechanic. The suggested values would make it so that ATMs are useful regardless of the range, as it was in TT. There is also an increase in projectile health because ATMs are laughably vulnerable to missiles, and the fix of ATM3 volley interval -- the interval isn't helpful, the direct HP Is.

- SSRM Stream-Fired, 0.1s interval.
- SSRM Non-Bone-Tracking (Uses ASRM Spread pattern)
- IS SSRM Range: 360m
- IS SSRM Damage/Missile: 2.15
- Projectile Health: 1.5/1.2/0.9
- CSSRM CD: 2.0s
- CSSRM CD: 3.0s
- CSSRM CD 4.0s

SSRMs are problematic to lights. Making them not bone-tracking,while stream-fired would make it more effective to larger targets by focusing more damage at the center-torso, and easier for lights by allowing them to react to the incoming damage. It's a proper nerf to SSRMs without making it mechanically harder to use for Ease of Use is hallmark of Lock-in Homing Weapons, and that's why nerf to the base locking mechanic itself shouldn't be done.

The IS SSRMs should also mimic the Clan SSRMs, this is because of difference in roles. The SSRMs hitting midrange would instantly give it a use over standard SRMs, and it pairs well with the Streak's fire-and-forget system. The reduction of CD for CSSRM is the adjustment for the Stream-Fire, it also provides increased DPS. Meanwhile the IS SSRM CD is fine where it is, and in fact it will take a hit in the DPS, and thus it instead mirrors the damage of standard SRMs.

- SRM2 Spread: 2.0
- CSRM2 Spread: 2.5
- SRM4 Spread: 3.5
- CSRM4 Spread: 4.0
- SRM6 Spread: 3.5
- CSRM6 Spread: 4.0

SRMs are kind of in a bad place -- brawling is much more risk than reward around an environment that could delete your armor away. I'd be wary of simply increasing the damage, so the smartest way to make SRMs more useful is smaller spread.

- RAC Jam Chance: 100%
- RAC Jam Dissipation: 5s
- RAC Jam Duration: 5s
- RAC5 Shoot Time: 6s
- RAC Spread: 0
- RAC2 ROF: 8 shots/sec
- RAC2 Velocity: 1800
- RAC5 Velocity: 1500
- RAC2 Heat Penalty: 2
- RAC5 HPS: 3.6s
- RAC5 Heat Penalty: 3

The aim of this changes is to make RACs more predictable. Instead of just chance-jamming on redline, the ensured Jamming would mean that the entire weapon is instead balanced around skillfully handling the jam bar. The reduction of Heat Penalty is meant to make RACs more manageable with 1 more weapon above their GH limit. The RACs also have an increase in velocity, its easy to lead 1 shell but a buttload isn't. The RAC2 also gets a bit of DPS boost through higher RPS, this is also meant to make it feel more distinct over RAC5.

(Both Clans and IS)
- UAC Jam Chance: 0%
- UAC20 Damage: 17
- UAC10 Damage: 8.5
- UAC5 Damage: 4.25
- UAC2 Damage: 1.7
- UAC20 Ammo/Ton: 48 (12 Shots)
- UAC10 Ammo/Ton: 72 (24 Shots)
- UAC5 Ammo/Ton: 72 (36 Shots)
- UAC2 Ammo/Ton: 176 (88 Shots)
- UAC20 Volley: 4
- UAC10 Volley: 3
- UAC5 Volley: 2
- UAC2 Volley: 2
- UAC20 Heat: 5.95
- UAC10 Heat: 2.975
- UAC5 Heat: 1.4875
- UAC2 Heat: 0.595
- UAC20 Velocity: 850
- UAC2 Velocity: 1800
- UAC10 Heat Penalty: 10

- UAC20 Cooldown: 5.22s (5.75 DPS)
- UAC10 Cooldown: 2.8039s (5.4245 DPS)
- UAC5 Cooldown: 1.9087s (3.993 DPS)
- UAC2 Cooldown: 0.7704s (3.432 DPS)
- CUAC20 Cooldown: 6.12s (5.182 DPS)
- CUAC10 Cooldown: 3.291s (4.695 DPS)
- CUAC5 Cooldown: 2.234s (3.464 DPS)
- CUAC2 Cooldown: 0.8443s (3.194 DPS)

UACs are incredibly risky and frustrating when it jams, yet this is the premium Dakka platform because precisely it is quite powerful IF IT DOESN'T Jam because the current mechanics makes it so that it's basically mounting two ACs for just +1 Ton and Slot. Making it reliable, and balanced around the double-fire would make it consistent and predictable without making it too much risk/reward with a frustrating jam mechanic.

The aim of this is to curtail the sustained RNGesus DPS by instead offering a consistent alpha, balanced around realistically being UAC 3.4/8.5/17/34.This reliable damage-out is curtailed by spread-damage, even the UAC2 is much like UAC5 that bursts two shells at once.

The UAC10s also have reduced heat penalty, this is unlike increasing GH, as this only reduces the GH penalty heat. It's still pretty hot, but you can get away more with it, even if you ought not to.

- CAC Single-Slugs
- CAC20 Damage: 16 + 4 Splash
- CAC10 Damage: 8 + 2 Splash
- CAC5 Damage: 4 + 1 Splash
- CAC2 Damage: 2
- CAC20 Velocity: 1150
- CAC10 Velocity: 1350
- CAC5 Velocity: 1650
- CAC20 Cooldown: 4.44s (4.505DPS)
- CAC10 Cooldown: 2.45s (4.082 DPS)
- CAC5 Cooldown: 1.66s (3.012 DPS)
- CAC2 Cooldown: 0.72s (2.777 DPS)

CACs are useless. It's not enough that they are simply just compared to LBXs, they should fire single-slugs with fixed splash damage. The CAC2 is realistically the same, but other shells should be more useful.The Artificial Splash is the balancing factor versus LBX, this forces spread on close-range where the LBX would otherwise spread too much damage among the components.

- LB20X Slot: 10

(Both Clans and IS)
- LB2X Pellet Count: 3 (Damage to 3)
- LB2X Heat: 0.6
- LB2X Ammo/Ton: 50
- LB5X Pellet Count: 7 (Damage to 7)
- LB5X Heat: 1.4
- LB5X Ammo/Ton: 22
- LB10X Pellet Count: 13 (Damage to 13)
- LB10X Heat: 2.6
- LB10X Ammo/Ton: 16
- LB20X Pellet Count: 24 (Damage to 24)
- LB20X Heat: 6
- LB20X Ammo/Ton: 8

- LB20X Cooldown: 4.8s (5 DPS)
- LB10X Cooldown: 2.756s (4.717 DPS)
- LB5X Cooldown: 2.016s (3.47 DPS)
- LB2X Cooldown: 1.005s (2.985 DPS)
- CLB20X Cooldown: 5.328s (4.505 DPS)
- CLB10X Cooldown: 3.185s (4.082 DPS)
- CLB5X Cooldown: 2.324s (3.012 DPS)
- CLB2X Cooldown: 1.08s (2.777 DPS)

LBXs spread has been a bit problematic. The LBX5 and LB2X particularly are useless, while LB20 is also a bit too spready. While the LB20 and LB10 can get away with it due to damage, the LB5X and LB2Xs cannot. There's also a problem with the LB format as a whole, and that is damage spread, rather inferior to basic ACs until you get closer. There should be more tangible benefit to LBXs, and that is now increased damage with proportionally increased cooldown. The 11-Slot LB20X is also BS.

- IS AC20 GH: 2
- IS AC20 Velocity: 950
- AC10 Cooldown: 2.12s (4.717 DPS)
- AC5 Cooldown: 1.44s (3.47 DPS)
- AC2 Cooldown: 0.67s (2.985 DPS)

In the light of the rework of the UACs, RACs and LBXs, the standard ACs should get a bit of rework too.

The current AC20 just kind of bad, and the new values try to address that; the AC20 shouldn't be restricted to just 1 shot, it's competing with the likes of HGR that can shoot two at once, so unless the HGR is going to restricted to just 1 weapon, the AC20 should get two. Aso the velocity is also problematic. The AC10s only really shines with those heavily quirked for it, as opposed of simply a weaker AC20 that you shoot and shield, the value is gotten by adjusting the quirked CD value with the Skill-Tree.

- PPC Minimum Range: 0m
- LPPC Damage: 6
- LPPC Cooldown: 3.0s
- SNPPC Cooldown: 3.5s
- SNPPC Heat: 8.5
- SNPPC GH Limit: 3
- PPC Heat: 8
- PPC GH Limit: 3
- HPPC Heat: 13.5
- ERPPC Heat: 10
- ERPPC GH Limit: 3

PPCs are hot garbage, particularly ERPPC Overall heat reduction fixes that. But LPPC would benefit on faster CD to synergize with ACs, and play with lights better. Standard PPC would now benefit as the coldest PPCs.

- LL Damage: 10
- LL GH Limit: 4
- ERLL Damage: 11
- CERLL Damage: 11
- LPL Damage: 11
- CLPL Damage: 12
- IS SL/ERSL Damage: 4
- IS SL Heat: 1.35
- IS ERSL Heat: 2.35
- SPL Damage: 5
- SPL Heat: 1.93
- CSPL Damage: 5
- CSPL Heat: 2.56
- C uL Damage: 3
- C uL Pulse Damage: 3
- C uL Pulse Range: 100m

Lasers needs a bit of love, particularly the Large Lasers. The IS LPL just needs good damage, the ERLL have 10% bonus damage over LL, but the LL can mount 4 all at once. The Clan Large Lasers needs it's damage because you can only mount 2 at once before GH. The small/micro lasers are utter garbage because damage, and thus basic increase in damage should work. The Medium Lasers are fine for the most part.


- CERPPC Damage: 10 + 2 Splash
- CERPPC Heat: 11
- CERPPC Cooldown: 4.0s

Clan PPC is just rather powerful, it is everything at once. The only real way to nerf this is to directly reduce damage. The reduction of Heat and cooldown means it's also much more manageable and mixes well with ACs.

- Flamer Range: 100m

Flamer are kind of okay for the most part, but range is lacking. I'd be wary of increasing it's actual upfront damage mainly because it's not really for dealing damage but overheating mechs.

- LGR Damage: 10
- LGR Charge Time: 0.75s
- LGR Cooldown: 4s
- LGR Range: 1080m
- GR Range: 810m
- LGR Health: 15
- GR Health: 20
- HGR Health: 25

This reinvigorates Gauss to long-range role, and addresses the anemic stature of the LGR. The 0.75s Charge Time of LGR is there to mirror the other charge time of GRs, and makes it easier to time. Health is also increased to make it less vulnerable to crits.

- LMG Range: 360m
- LMG Spread: 0.15
- MG Range: 270m
- MG Spread: 0.3
- HMG Range: 150m
- HMG Spread: 0.5
- CLMG Range: 360m
- CLMG Spread: 0.2
- CMG Range: 270m
- CMG Spread: 0.4
- CHMG Range: 150m
- CHMG Spread: 0.6
- Piranha: -20% HMG/MG/LMG Rate of Fire

Range and Spread is the biggest problem of MGs, particularly the HMG. They are just too much in your face. Lights can use it, but it's just not worth to bring with heavier mechs as backups. Yes this has implications on something like the Piranha. I would argue that we should instead nega-quirk the Piranha, it's the only mech that is over-performing, I don't see why we should prevent MGs from being useful on the other mechs.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 10 March 2021 - 11:22 PM.

[Moadebe]

For editing later.

However. Clan smalls (any laser in the "small category") feel under tuned and underwhelming.
Flamers are....self heating sticks.
DO NOT REMOVE THE CHARGE UP TIME ON GAUSS. For the LOVE OF GOD.


More to follow

[Voice of Kerensky]

Not really about the balance of weapons, but about the technical implementation.
I already wrote this in another thread, but I think this place is better for these messages.
Gauss rifles.
It seems to me that the level sound of charging two Gauss rifles is somewhat insufficient.
Sometimes it happens that I do not hear that the Gauss rifles are charged and I miss the moment when it is already necessary to release the mouse button to fire. As a result, a missed opportunity to fire, the enemy moved out of the aiming line or even disappeared behind cover, I have to recharging the gauss rifles (must read, stand under fire, rubbing my armor in vain). These problems are not uncommon with two Gauss rifles. And I hardly use one Gauss rifle at all, because the sound of a single Gauss rifle is even harder to hear.
All these problems are especially complicated when I participate in an active firefight. The sounds of shots, explosions, impacts on armor, etc., significantly complicate the identification of the sound signal of a Gauss rifles charge.
There is another problem with Gauss. The destroyed Gauss continues to emit a charging sound, as if it is still operational. And it seems even the indicator of the charge of the destroyed Gauss in the groups of weapons also shows that the rifle is being charged.
This is very confusing. For example, yesterday I played on the HGR Victor, they shot my left halftorso. Continuing attempts to shoot from the remaining Gauss, I was repeatedly misled: the destroyed Gauss made a sound of full charge (ready to fire), I (thinking that it was the remaining Gauss charged) released the button, but there was no shot, because the sound of the charge came from the already destroyed Gauss, while the remaining gauss had not yet been charged. As a result, I release the button (thinking that the remaining Gauss is charged), but the shot does not occur, I have to repeat the procedure for charging the Gauss = the target leaves the scope, I stand and take absolutely unnecessary damage in this case.

And about the balance ... I have to say ... Please look at the LRM and think about them.
1) The times when it was possible to collect some absolutely incredible Stalker monster for 100 LRM at a speed of 25 kph are long gone.
At the moment, the game has a lot of multi-missiles mechs that can carry 80-100 LRMs and which retain the ability to move at a sufficient speed (some can still use the ECM).
2) Considering the above, it is worth remembering that now the players have been given the opportunity to create groups ... I hope you understand what I'm hinting at now?
3) After looking at the first two points, I want to draw your attention to the effectiveness of a single or double AMS, which tends to zero.
4) Skill tree and ECM. Considering points 1 and 2, destroying the basic efficiency of the EMC looks like a crime. You need to spend 1 ton of weight, 1 or 2 internal space slots. But also 13 skill points for the ECM to start working. Again, this looks like a crime.

The rest of the weapon, I believe, is already nerfed enough not to touch it anymore

[VonBruinwald]

The6thMessenger, on 18 February 2021 - 07:15 PM, said:

... Don't you have the powerpoint? Or the actual excel?

I'd appreciate a copy of the image in thread. The imgur site doesn't load for me

[CHH Badkarma]

NienBall, on 18 February 2021 - 07:02 PM, said:

Things I would like to see:
Do away with the charge up time on the Gauss rifle so their fire rate mirrors that of PPCs and they can be a viable weapon again.

Introduction of the Clan HAG to counter the IS RACs and IS MML to counter Clan ATMs.

Speed up the lock time for non LOS LRM locks and buff them back to previous levels, even when they were at peak power in the game I never had an issue with being peppered to death by them and the only people I've ever seen complaining were those that didn't utilize terrain and instead charged headfirst into the open with slow mechs, and I feel a slight re-buff would make them helpful again as a long range counter to all the MRM and SRM boats that seem to dominate gameplay now.

AMS buff against close range missile salvos, SRM and MRM boats are about the only builds I encounter now when playing, I feel an AMS buff in that area would be an effective counter to them and easier to implement than nerfing missiles or buffing ballistics and energy weapons all back up again.

Shorten Clan Streak SRM reload times to match IS Streak times.

Increase standard and Heavy PPC velocities to match that of the ERPPC, remove splash damage affect from the Clan ERPPC and set it's damage to 12pts instead of 10. I know few are going to want Clan PPCs brought up to their tabletop power level but I think 12pts of direct damage is a better compromise than 10 + splash.

HAG would be a welcome addition for the reasons you listed and close enough in year of availability to be put in game

[The6thMessenger]

VonBruinwald, on 18 February 2021 - 07:51 PM, said:

I'd appreciate a copy of the image in thread. The imgur site doesn't load for me

No really, they had this PPT Presentation and a Google Sheets, even the Word Doc. I was looking for that.

[Voice of Kerensky]

By the way, I am inclined to support my comrades who call for a more sober approach to Gauss rifles.
They have very little health. Their crit chance is more than high (especially the Clan GR and IS HGR), they die very quickly if there is no armor. But tell me WHY do they explode? What's the logic? The GR has already received its crit, it is not dangerous longer. The most powerful weapon has ALREADY been disabled, WHY need explode it, tearing off half of the mech along with the remnants of weaker weapons?

Edited by Voice of Kerensky, 18 February 2021 - 08:26 PM.

[evil kerensky]

i dont play all that much anymore, so take this with a grain of salt. this is just what i would like to see to bring back the old playstyles i miss.

buffs
srm lineup (clan and is) spread decrease
small pulse (clan and IS) dmg increase
IS LPL dmg increase
IS ppc lineup heat decrease
is regular medium laser heat and cooldown decrease
lbx lineup spread decrease
regular ac 5, 10, and 20 (clan and is) cooldown decrease
ac20 ghost heat limit increased by 1

nerfs
mpl (clan and is) cooldown or duration increase
erppc (IS AND CLAN) minor velocity and range decrease
heavy laser lineup damage decrease
atm/mrm/ssrm/cssrm spread increase
cssrm range decrease
lrm lineup (clan and is) spread increase
clan uac heat increase
ac2 cooldown increase
rac dps decrease
machine gun lineup (clan and is) crit rate decrease (clans need a much higher crit rate nerf than IS, as they can boat way more, and they are 50% lighter)
machine gun lineup (clan and IS) dps decrease

if you could increase mobility too it would be great, with a focus on improving the turn speed and torso twist speed on mechs that have classically been used for brawling.

also, as you may infer, i play a lot more IS than clan, so there may be other buffs and nerfs on the clan side that i didnt cover and may be unaware of